Human(s) Chromosome 2 resulted from the Fusion of two Ape Chromosomes: Easily seen.

abu afak

ALLAH SNACKBAR!
Mar 3, 2006
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Contrary to what you might read from some IDIOT KWEATIOIST Website...
(Like ICR/Institute for Creation Research recently posted here.)
this is a SIMPLE one and a BIGGIE.
Easy to understand/SEE.
We have 23 pairs of Chromos, ALL GREAT Apes 24.
Their 2 a/b fused into our #2 as can be easily seen when put next to one another.

Introduction
All great apes apart from man have 24 pairs of chromosomes. There is therefore a hypothesis that the common ancestor of all great apes had 24 pairs of chromosomes and that the fusion of two of the ancestor's chromosomes created chromosome 2 in humans. The evidence for this hypothesis is very strong.​
The Evidence
Evidence for fusing of two ancestral chromosomes to create human chromosome 2 and where there has been no fusion in other Great Apes is:​
1) The analogous chromosomes (2p and 2q) in the non-human great apes can be shown, when laid end to end, to create an identical banding structure to the human chromosome 2. (1)
2) The remains of the sequence that the chromosome has on its ends (the telomere) is found in the middle of human chromosome 2 where the ancestral chromosomes fused. (2)
3) the detail of this region (pre-telomeric sequence, telomeric sequence, reversed telomeric sequence, pre-telomeric sequence) is exactly what we would expect from a fusion. (3)[/B]​
4) this telomeric region is Exactly where one would expect to find it if a fusion had occurred in the middle of human chromosome 2.
5) the centromere of human chromosome 2 Lines up with the chimp chromosome 2p chromosomal centromere.
6) At the place where we would expect it on the human chromosome we find the Remnants of the chimp 2q centromere (4).
Not only is this Strong evidence for a fusion event, but it is also strong evidence for Common ancestry; in fact, it is hard to explain by any other mechanism.
Human - ape chtromosome 2 banding
Explanations
Telomere evidence
The telomere is a sequence of DNA at the end of the chromosome. The function of the telomere is to protect the ends of the chromosomal DNA strands during replication. The ends of the strands are very vulnerable to mutations or deletions. Telomeres consist of, or contain long stretches of simple DNA sequences that are repeated many times. The telomeres tend to be shortened over time and are restored by an enzyme called telomerase which lengthens the sequence. If the telomere becomes too short in somatic cells, errors in duplication can occur leading to cancers.​
The telomere sequence is highly conserved in different groups of organisms. For example vertebrates have the sequence TTAGGG repeated many times. (In primates the sequence is repeated 500 to 3500 times). Adjacent to the telomere, are regions with other DNA repeats (known as Telomere Associated Repeats) but these regions, rather than being highly conserved, are highly polymorphic - that is they have many variations even within the same species. Nevertheless the pretelomeric region can be easily recognised in closely related species. Occasionally genes are found in the pretelomeric region.​
Now these telomeric and pretelomeric sequences are normally found only on chromosome ends. However, in human chromosome 2, there is strong evidence for chromosome fusing in that there is a pretelomeric sequence, a telomeric sequence, an inverted telomeric sequence and an inverted pretelomeric sequence in that order in the middle of the chromosome.​
Centromere evidence
Turning now to the centromere. The process of somatic cell division (mitosis) is as follows (this is a very brief and simplified summary to explain the centromere):​
[.............]​
[.............]​


 
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Robertsonian fusion of ape chromosomes in Homo

Humans have 2n=46 chromosomes, as compared with 2n=48 in all of our other closest relatives, the Great Apes (Chimpanzee, Gorillas, and Orangutans). Whereas Chromosome 2 is a single, large sub-metacentric in humans, the other apes have two smaller, acrocentric chromosomes. Comparison of banding patterns allows these chromosomes to be aligned, and shows that during human evolution the ancestral chromosomes have undergone an end-to-end Robertsonian fusion to form a single larger chromosome. The gene contents of chimp and human chromosomes are substantially identical [note that the bands are conserved]. Molecular inspection of the area in the human 2q1.2~1.4 region shows telomere-like DNA sequences from the chimp chromosomes, as predicted.




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Hominid_Chromosome_3.gif


Chromosomal differences between Homo and Great Apes

Humans have a characteristic diploid chromosome number of 2N=46 whereas the other Great Apes (orangutans, gorillas, and chimps) are all 2N=48. The large metacentric Chromosome 2 of Homo appears to be the result of a fusion between two smaller telocentric chromosomes found in the other Great Apes. In the figure above, Q-banding patterns in the chimp acrocentrics are homologous to those of the 2p (short) and 2q (long) arms of human Chromosome 2: the alignments are indicated. As well, ape telomeres (the ends of chromosomes) characteristically consist of tandem repeats of the motif 5'-TTAGGG-3'. Such sequences are also present In the human centromere (the middle of the chromosome), but at one point the order changes abruptly to 5'-CCCTAA-3', the reverse complement of the standard pattern, as predicted by a telomere to telomere fusion of ancestral ape-like chromosomes.



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Very interesting.

The science that proves a child's life begins at and by the moment of conception can not possibly be that far behind.

Huh.
A childs life? Don't you mean zygote?

Any creature (especially mammals) in the zygote stage of their life, growth and development are what they are (as members each of their own species.) "Zygote" is a stage of development. A "zygote" is not one creature that only later morphs into another.

Science.

Learn it. Embrace it.

With reference to the OP. . . What (if not conception) was the moment that the first HUMAN genetic sequence was actually, scientifically, biologically, first created and set into motion?
 
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Very interesting.

The science that proves a child's life begins at and by the moment of conception can not possibly be that far behind.

Huh.
A childs life? Don't you mean zygote?

Any creature (especially mammals) in the zygote stage of their life, growth and development are what they are (as members each of their own species.) "Zygote" is a stage of development. A "zygote" is not one creature that only later morphs into another.

Science.

Learn it. Embrace it.

With reference to the OP. . . What (if not conception) was the moment that the first HUMAN genetic sequence was actually, scientifically, biologically, first created and set into motion?
No hun...in the beginning of fertilization---what may or may not become a fetus then baby is nothing more than a collection of cells with no heart, no brain, and no human shape. It doesn't think or feel. It has no concept of its existence...it simply has the potential to become which btw is the case with the egg that is released and dies off during a womans monthly--just a potential that isn't there yet or often ever.
 
Very interesting.

The science that proves a child's life begins at and by the moment of conception can not possibly be that far behind.

Huh.
A childs life? Don't you mean zygote?

Any creature (especially mammals) in the zygote stage of their life, growth and development are what they are (as members each of their own species.) "Zygote" is a stage of development. A "zygote" is not one creature that only later morphs into another.

Science.

Learn it. Embrace it.

With reference to the OP. . . What (if not conception) was the moment that the first HUMAN genetic sequence was actually, scientifically, biologically, first created and set into motion?
No hun...in the beginning of fertilization---what may or may not become a fetus then baby is nothing more than a collection of cells with no heart, no brain, and no human shape. It doesn't think or feel. It has no concept of its existence...it simply has the potential to become which btw is the case with the egg that is released and dies off during a womans monthly--just a potential that isn't there yet or often ever.

Do human beings reproduce by way of "metamorphosis?"

Yes or no?

Here's a clue. The correct answer starts with the letter "N."
 
What about Neanderthal, Denisovan, Australopithecus......, I am skeptical because from just one pairing is a truckload of differences, not likely to be that many from original pair.


View attachment 443084

LINK
Huh?
You posted a chart of 'Millions of years,' NOT DNA,' or (one or two) Chromosomes.
WTF!
Go back to The-climate-can't-be-getting-warmer-because-it's-colder-in-Colrado today section goofy.

BTW what happened to your IQ leader/warming denier skookerAssBill?
Did his head finally detach the last 20%?
Did he think COVID was a hoax too?


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Is this another thing that points to evolution and to be denied by those who believe in god.
 
What about Neanderthal, Denisovan, Australopithecus......, I am skeptical because from just one pairing is a truckload of differences, not likely to be that many from original pair.


View attachment 443084

LINK
Huh?
You posted a chart of 'Millions of years,' NOT DNA,' or (one or two) Chromosomes.
WTF!
Go back to The-climate-can't-be-getting-warmer-because-it's-colder-in-Colrado today section goofy.

BTW what happened to your IQ leader/warming denier skookerAssBill?
Did his head finally detach the last 20%?
Did he think COVID was a hoax too?


`

Translation: I can't answer a simple question, therefore i reply like the asshole I am.
 
What about Neanderthal, Denisovan, Australopithecus......, I am skeptical because from just one pairing is a truckload of differences, not likely to be that many from original pair.


View attachment 443084

LINK
What about them? The genetic differences among them appear on may chromosomes, not just one. Their similarities are overwhelming. And the chromosome fusion happened before the first of any of those species.
 
What about Neanderthal, Denisovan, Australopithecus......, I am skeptical because from just one pairing is a truckload of differences, not likely to be that many from original pair.


View attachment 443084

LINK
What about them? The genetic differences among them appear on may chromosomes, not just one. Their similarities are overwhelming. And the chromosome fusion happened before the first of any of those species.
Actually, homo sapiens appears after all the rest per that chart and so far we only know for sure the fusion exists in we humans~homo sapiens. Not enough soft tissue of the other 'homos' has survived to provide a complete enough genome of their full DNA mix.*

So one major question would be how did this fusion happen?

And another related one might be why?**

* A few years back Pablo Savante of the Max Plank Institute started to claim that homo sapiens had breed with Neanderthals but when I inquired via email if they had the full genome for Neanderthal and he would not admit they did, implying they did not. After a few attempts of emails exchange, he stopped responding.

Problem is that without the full genome, establishing if neanderthals are of the 24 or 23 chromosome pattern (sequence) it becomes difficult to prove there was crossbreeding with offspring and DNA exchange. With about 98-99% common DNA of chimps compared to humans there are shared DNA traits but the 24 versus 23 means the two species can not cross breed.

** See next post.
 
So one major question would be how did this fusion happen?

And related might be why?
Both excellent questions. As of now, we only know for sure that it DID happen. Though we think Neanderthals and Denisovans had only 23 pairs.
 
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So one major question would be how did this fusion happen?

And related might be why?
Both excellent questions. As of now, we only know for sure that it DID happen. Though we think Neanderthals and Denisovans had only 23 pairs.
True, we only "know for sure" with regards to we humans. As I pointed out, so far no complete map of the genome (total chromosome and genes within same) for the Neanderthals or Denisovans to PROVE they were the 23 pattern and not still carrying the 24 pattern common to chimps, gorillas, and orangs.

One interesting item that comes from this 23 pattern in humans pops out of the Old Testament and Genesis, chapter 6, verses 1-4, EXCERPT:
Genesis Chapter 6

1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.
...

Of course KGV is a bit altered in some words from the original Hebrew, but the essence remains the same.

In order for those "sons of the Gods"(it's a plural in the original Hebrew) to mate with human females and have offspring the DNA of those 'sons of the gawds' would also have to be of the same 23 chromosome pattern.

Did the "sons of the Gawds" alter their DNA to make this possible or did they alter (intervene with evolution) the DNA of a pre-human species to make we homo-sapiens ??? !!!

An additional implication here is that of the @20 amino acids, four of which are used to make our DNA (and that of all life on this planet) there may be some form of "natural law" that makes DNA (and RNA) the same for carbon based life on other worlds/planets such as where those "sons of the gods" came from.

Hmmmm ??? !!!
 
So one major question would be how did this fusion happen?

And related might be why?
Both excellent questions. As of now, we only know for sure that it DID happen. Though we think Neanderthals and Denisovans had only 23 pairs.
True, we only "know for sure" with regards to we humans. As I pointed out, so far no complete map of the genome (total chromosome and genes within same) for the Neanderthals or Denisovans to PROVE they were the 23 pattern and not still carrying the 24 pattern common to chimps, gorillas, and orangs.

One interesting item that comes from this 23 pattern in humans pops out of the Old Testament and Genesis, chapter 6, verses 1-4, EXCERPT:
Genesis Chapter 6

1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.
...

Of course KGV is a bit altered in some words from the original Hebrew, but the essence remains the same.

In order for those "sons of the Gods"(it's a plural in the original Hebrew) to mate with human females and have offspring the DNA of those 'sons of the gawds' would also have to be of the same 23 chromosome pattern.

Did the "sons of the Gawds" alter their DNA to make this possible or did they alter (intervene with evolution) the DNA of a pre-human species to make we homo-sapiens ??? !!!

An additional implication here is that of the @20 amino acids, four of which are used to make our DNA (and that of all life on this planet) there may be some form of "natural law" that makes DNA (and RNA) the same for carbon based life on other worlds/planets such as where those "sons of the gods" came from.

Hmmmm ??? !!!
I don't see any place for this goofy religious numerology in the science section.
 

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