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Zander,http://neven1.typepad.com/.a/6a0133f03a1e37970b01a3fd16a72e970b-pi
Well, I think this graph gives a very good idea of how the ice in the Arctic is going.
Looks like normal variations from natural solar cycles.....Cherry picking dates to create the illusion of a trend is a common tactic of the AGW Cultists.
flacaltenn,Zander,I'd have a lot more respect for the climate alarmists if they had the dignity and class to simply admit they don't know. Constantly coming up with new excuses must be exhausting.....
"Coming up with new excuses" is your opinion. But the really exhausting thing is trying to find a way to get people to accept the truth. Somebody once basically said that it is difficult to get people to understand the truth. Especially when their livelihood depends on them not understanding. Also, Einstein once said something before my time. Which is something that I would have probably come up with. He basically said that the solution to a problem can't be found by the same mind that created that problem.
The "truth" is that what we've measured in the Modern era shows NO EVIDENCE that the Earth's climate is in danger of "thermal runaway". And in fact, the warming rate may be below the basic Physics estimates for CO2 only (without all the pretend multipliers that scared folks)
What do YOU think "the truth" is? How much has the planet warmed in your lifetime?
If you want precise facts and figures, you're going to have to look them up yourself. But a while ago I looked up something about methane release. If I remember right, the release wasn't as high as expected during the eighties. But then it started going up again. You can look at this as a computer like "bullshit in, bullshit out" sort of thing. But I heard on some news program once that the rate of global warming from about the 70's to today went up twice as fast as what scientists had predicted back in the 70's.
You say that there is no evidence that the earth is in danger of a thermal runaway. Well for what it's worth, what I just said is a little proof. Though as far as evidence of a thermal runaway goes, there is no geological precident on which to judge what the warning signs might be. But that doesn't mean it couldn't happen. You also ask how much the earth has warmed in my lifetime. It's hard to say. For example, there is a parable about a frog being placed into a bowl of water with the water slowly rising. The parable states that the frog won't notice the gradual temparature increase and cook to death. At one time, I thought this parable was of an experiment that was actually done. Until I looked it up. Something I thought was funny was the writer of the article pointing out that you can't get a frog to sit still for anything.
6 buoys off the Seattle coast.... where three rivers dump their water...
oh, you have evidence do you now? Funny no one else has presented any yet. Hear of the pause? hmmmm.......Mr. H,
I don't know exactly what you're getting at. China burns much more coal than India. Though in Chinas' case, much of it is due to producing products for the U.S. Products that should be manufactured here in the first place. Even if our envioronmental standards are higher.
Though you bring up an interesting point with India. I was watching a program once where they were talking to some woman there. Somebody who is highly respected and thought of as being highly intelligent. She was saying that if all the people in India were to start to live the same kind of lifestyle as we do in the west, the environmental destruction would surely destroy the earth. But she was committed to all the people in India living the same kind of lifestyle that we do in the west. You already know where that will lead. So what's the answer? Vote for me as dictator.
jc456,oh, you have evidence do you now? Funny no one else has presented any yet. Hear of the pause? hmmmm.......Mr. H,
I don't know exactly what you're getting at. China burns much more coal than India. Though in Chinas' case, much of it is due to producing products for the U.S. Products that should be manufactured here in the first place. Even if our envioronmental standards are higher.
Though you bring up an interesting point with India. I was watching a program once where they were talking to some woman there. Somebody who is highly respected and thought of as being highly intelligent. She was saying that if all the people in India were to start to live the same kind of lifestyle as we do in the west, the environmental destruction would surely destroy the earth. But she was committed to all the people in India living the same kind of lifestyle that we do in the west. You already know where that will lead. So what's the answer? Vote for me as dictator.
that CO2 is harmful to the climate.jc4
jc456,oh, you have evidence do you now? Funny no one else has presented any yet. Hear of the pause? hmmmm.......Mr. H,
I don't know exactly what you're getting at. China burns much more coal than India. Though in Chinas' case, much of it is due to producing products for the U.S. Products that should be manufactured here in the first place. Even if our envioronmental standards are higher.
Though you bring up an interesting point with India. I was watching a program once where they were talking to some woman there. Somebody who is highly respected and thought of as being highly intelligent. She was saying that if all the people in India were to start to live the same kind of lifestyle as we do in the west, the environmental destruction would surely destroy the earth. But she was committed to all the people in India living the same kind of lifestyle that we do in the west. You already know where that will lead. So what's the answer? Vote for me as dictator.
What is it that you want evidence of. I hope it is that China burns more coal than the U.S.? In which case, you can look it up. As for what else I said, I would hope that you aren't so stupid as to question that. Because as it is, even a blind person could see that the environment is getting worse and worse. When I hear experts talk about things like population growth, pollution or economics, what I hear is, unsustainable, unsustainable, unsustainable.
jc456,that CO2 is harmful to the climate.jc4
jc456,oh, you have evidence do you now? Funny no one else has presented any yet. Hear of the pause? hmmmm.......Mr. H,
I don't know exactly what you're getting at. China burns much more coal than India. Though in Chinas' case, much of it is due to producing products for the U.S. Products that should be manufactured here in the first place. Even if our envioronmental standards are higher.
Though you bring up an interesting point with India. I was watching a program once where they were talking to some woman there. Somebody who is highly respected and thought of as being highly intelligent. She was saying that if all the people in India were to start to live the same kind of lifestyle as we do in the west, the environmental destruction would surely destroy the earth. But she was committed to all the people in India living the same kind of lifestyle that we do in the west. You already know where that will lead. So what's the answer? Vote for me as dictator.
What is it that you want evidence of. I hope it is that China burns more coal than the U.S.? In which case, you can look it up. As for what else I said, I would hope that you aren't so stupid as to question that. Because as it is, even a blind person could see that the environment is getting worse and worse. When I hear experts talk about things like population growth, pollution or economics, what I hear is, unsustainable, unsustainable, unsustainable.
Google it....then get back and I'll tell you if your right...jc456
jc456,that CO2 is harmful to the climate.jc4
jc456,oh, you have evidence do you now? Funny no one else has presented any yet. Hear of the pause? hmmmm.......Mr. H,
I don't know exactly what you're getting at. China burns much more coal than India. Though in Chinas' case, much of it is due to producing products for the U.S. Products that should be manufactured here in the first place. Even if our envioronmental standards are higher.
Though you bring up an interesting point with India. I was watching a program once where they were talking to some woman there. Somebody who is highly respected and thought of as being highly intelligent. She was saying that if all the people in India were to start to live the same kind of lifestyle as we do in the west, the environmental destruction would surely destroy the earth. But she was committed to all the people in India living the same kind of lifestyle that we do in the west. You already know where that will lead. So what's the answer? Vote for me as dictator.
What is it that you want evidence of. I hope it is that China burns more coal than the U.S.? In which case, you can look it up. As for what else I said, I would hope that you aren't so stupid as to question that. Because as it is, even a blind person could see that the environment is getting worse and worse. When I hear experts talk about things like population growth, pollution or economics, what I hear is, unsustainable, unsustainable, unsustainable.
You need to find and watch the documentary, "Greedy Lying Bastards." It has many interesting things in it. One of which is them showing the CEO of Exxon admitting at a shareholders meeting that global warming was a reality. And he had every reason to deny it. I can't tell you that the ever increasing CO2 is harmful to the environment for one main reason. You obviously don't want to know.
I don't care what a CEO of Exxon has to say, he isn't me. I'm asking you why you think CO2 is harmful.jc456
jc456,that CO2 is harmful to the climate.jc4
jc456,oh, you have evidence do you now? Funny no one else has presented any yet. Hear of the pause? hmmmm.......Mr. H,
I don't know exactly what you're getting at. China burns much more coal than India. Though in Chinas' case, much of it is due to producing products for the U.S. Products that should be manufactured here in the first place. Even if our envioronmental standards are higher.
Though you bring up an interesting point with India. I was watching a program once where they were talking to some woman there. Somebody who is highly respected and thought of as being highly intelligent. She was saying that if all the people in India were to start to live the same kind of lifestyle as we do in the west, the environmental destruction would surely destroy the earth. But she was committed to all the people in India living the same kind of lifestyle that we do in the west. You already know where that will lead. So what's the answer? Vote for me as dictator.
What is it that you want evidence of. I hope it is that China burns more coal than the U.S.? In which case, you can look it up. As for what else I said, I would hope that you aren't so stupid as to question that. Because as it is, even a blind person could see that the environment is getting worse and worse. When I hear experts talk about things like population growth, pollution or economics, what I hear is, unsustainable, unsustainable, unsustainable.
You need to find and watch the documentary, "Greedy Lying Bastards." It has many interesting things in it. One of which is them showing the CEO of Exxon admitting at a shareholders meeting that global warming was a reality. And he had every reason to deny it. I can't tell you that the ever increasing CO2 is harmful to the environment for one main reason. You obviously don't want to know.
why, I'm not making the statement, prove it is.Google it....then get back and I'll tell you if your right...jc456
jc456,that CO2 is harmful to the climate.jc4
jc456,oh, you have evidence do you now? Funny no one else has presented any yet. Hear of the pause? hmmmm.......Mr. H,
I don't know exactly what you're getting at. China burns much more coal than India. Though in Chinas' case, much of it is due to producing products for the U.S. Products that should be manufactured here in the first place. Even if our envioronmental standards are higher.
Though you bring up an interesting point with India. I was watching a program once where they were talking to some woman there. Somebody who is highly respected and thought of as being highly intelligent. She was saying that if all the people in India were to start to live the same kind of lifestyle as we do in the west, the environmental destruction would surely destroy the earth. But she was committed to all the people in India living the same kind of lifestyle that we do in the west. You already know where that will lead. So what's the answer? Vote for me as dictator.
What is it that you want evidence of. I hope it is that China burns more coal than the U.S.? In which case, you can look it up. As for what else I said, I would hope that you aren't so stupid as to question that. Because as it is, even a blind person could see that the environment is getting worse and worse. When I hear experts talk about things like population growth, pollution or economics, what I hear is, unsustainable, unsustainable, unsustainable.
You need to find and watch the documentary, "Greedy Lying Bastards." It has many interesting things in it. One of which is them showing the CEO of Exxon admitting at a shareholders meeting that global warming was a reality. And he had every reason to deny it. I can't tell you that the ever increasing CO2 is harmful to the environment for one main reason. You obviously don't want to know.
jc456,I don't care what a CEO of Exxon has to say, he isn't me. I'm asking you why you think CO2 is harmful.jc456
jc456,that CO2 is harmful to the climate.jc4
jc456,oh, you have evidence do you now? Funny no one else has presented any yet. Hear of the pause? hmmmm.......Mr. H,
I don't know exactly what you're getting at. China burns much more coal than India. Though in Chinas' case, much of it is due to producing products for the U.S. Products that should be manufactured here in the first place. Even if our envioronmental standards are higher.
Though you bring up an interesting point with India. I was watching a program once where they were talking to some woman there. Somebody who is highly respected and thought of as being highly intelligent. She was saying that if all the people in India were to start to live the same kind of lifestyle as we do in the west, the environmental destruction would surely destroy the earth. But she was committed to all the people in India living the same kind of lifestyle that we do in the west. You already know where that will lead. So what's the answer? Vote for me as dictator.
What is it that you want evidence of. I hope it is that China burns more coal than the U.S.? In which case, you can look it up. As for what else I said, I would hope that you aren't so stupid as to question that. Because as it is, even a blind person could see that the environment is getting worse and worse. When I hear experts talk about things like population growth, pollution or economics, what I hear is, unsustainable, unsustainable, unsustainable.
You need to find and watch the documentary, "Greedy Lying Bastards." It has many interesting things in it. One of which is them showing the CEO of Exxon admitting at a shareholders meeting that global warming was a reality. And he had every reason to deny it. I can't tell you that the ever increasing CO2 is harmful to the environment for one main reason. You obviously don't want to know.
see when you use words such as alarming you are setting flags. So what is it you have to make that statement?jc456
jc456,I don't care what a CEO of Exxon has to say, he isn't me. I'm asking you why you think CO2 is harmful.jc456
jc456,that CO2 is harmful to the climate.jc4
jc456,oh, you have evidence do you now? Funny no one else has presented any yet. Hear of the pause? hmmmm.......
What is it that you want evidence of. I hope it is that China burns more coal than the U.S.? In which case, you can look it up. As for what else I said, I would hope that you aren't so stupid as to question that. Because as it is, even a blind person could see that the environment is getting worse and worse. When I hear experts talk about things like population growth, pollution or economics, what I hear is, unsustainable, unsustainable, unsustainable.
You need to find and watch the documentary, "Greedy Lying Bastards." It has many interesting things in it. One of which is them showing the CEO of Exxon admitting at a shareholders meeting that global warming was a reality. And he had every reason to deny it. I can't tell you that the ever increasing CO2 is harmful to the environment for one main reason. You obviously don't want to know.
Did you even read my thread at the beginning of this? It would also be helpful if you read some of the back and forth that has been going on in the four pages since. But I will try to come up with something I haven't already replied to somebody else. First of all CO2 isn't all that bad. Especially for the plants that breathe it. But the rate at which humans are making it go up is alarming. And where CO2 goes, temperatures are sure to follow. Which could very well cause a dasterous increase in methane. Which is 20 times more potent of a greenhouse gas than CO2. If you looked around at what was happening in the world, you could see that global warming has had some serious effects on the earth. These are sure to get worse. One of the main problems is that these changes don't effect the wealthy as much. And these are the people who make the rules.
Yet the solution requires an increase in heavy industry, alternative energy has used more hydrocarbons, by a factor of 10,000 or more, to produce less energy. But, alternative energy has managed to destroy more acres of land than any other source of energy in history.flacaltenn,
Yes, I would say that it is time to panic. Seeing the rate at which humans are causing atmospheric CO2 to rise. But I think you're missing the whole point. What happens if people like me are wrong. Our whole economic system needlessly gets restructured to a more sustainable, fair and ecologically friendly framework. Which it is badly in need of anyway. But what if people like you are wrong. (Which you are) Most of the creatures get to go through hell before they get to go hang out with Jesus in heaven. (I say sarcastically)
jc456,see when you use words such as alarming you are setting flags. So what is it you have to make that statement?jc456
jc456,I don't care what a CEO of Exxon has to say, he isn't me. I'm asking you why you think CO2 is harmful.jc456
jc456,that CO2 is harmful to the climate.jc4
jc456,
What is it that you want evidence of. I hope it is that China burns more coal than the U.S.? In which case, you can look it up. As for what else I said, I would hope that you aren't so stupid as to question that. Because as it is, even a blind person could see that the environment is getting worse and worse. When I hear experts talk about things like population growth, pollution or economics, what I hear is, unsustainable, unsustainable, unsustainable.
You need to find and watch the documentary, "Greedy Lying Bastards." It has many interesting things in it. One of which is them showing the CEO of Exxon admitting at a shareholders meeting that global warming was a reality. And he had every reason to deny it. I can't tell you that the ever increasing CO2 is harmful to the environment for one main reason. You obviously don't want to know.
Did you even read my thread at the beginning of this? It would also be helpful if you read some of the back and forth that has been going on in the four pages since. But I will try to come up with something I haven't already replied to somebody else. First of all CO2 isn't all that bad. Especially for the plants that breathe it. But the rate at which humans are making it go up is alarming. And where CO2 goes, temperatures are sure to follow. Which could very well cause a dasterous increase in methane. Which is 20 times more potent of a greenhouse gas than CO2. If you looked around at what was happening in the world, you could see that global warming has had some serious effects on the earth. These are sure to get worse. One of the main problems is that these changes don't effect the wealthy as much. And these are the people who make the rules.
elektra,Yet the solution requires an increase in heavy industry, alternative energy has used more hydrocarbons, by a factor of 10,000 or more, to produce less energy. But, alternative energy has managed to destroy more acres of land than any other source of energy in history.flacaltenn,
Yes, I would say that it is time to panic. Seeing the rate at which humans are causing atmospheric CO2 to rise. But I think you're missing the whole point. What happens if people like me are wrong. Our whole economic system needlessly gets restructured to a more sustainable, fair and ecologically friendly framework. Which it is badly in need of anyway. But what if people like you are wrong. (Which you are) Most of the creatures get to go through hell before they get to go hang out with Jesus in heaven. (I say sarcastically)
Green energy is canard, it's like using 15 "green", Cadillacs to get to work, no pollution after they are produced, but you used the largest amount of hydrocarbons possible to make that little journey.
Yes you are wrong and the consequences are everyw gere, highest price of gas ever, highest price of food ever, highest electrical rates ever, inability to provide energy in a state of emergency, the growth of heavy industry outside the pollution laws in the usa.
