How to win a war (or not)

[Dick Foster]

during ww2 germany bombed several european cities and launched v2 rockets (and bombed) londen.

they siezed the land of other countries and imprisoned and tortured the citizens of those countries.

nazi production and research facilities were mostly in civilian areas.

why does the op cast dispersions on the allied forces who freed those countries, at great cost?

Is that a justification for mass murdering defenseless civilians of a nation ruled by a fanatical dictator?

it is a justification of the "total war" strategy that was required to defeat an enemy that itself had and was waging war on civilians.

on a related note, both hiruhito and hitler announced to the world that ALL their respective citizens were defenders of the fatherland and would be expected to fight to the death. A few russian accounts of the fall of berlin i have read document nazi radio broadcasting this message as they fought their way into berlin...street by street. Those germans that wouldnt fight were seen hanging from lightpoles as the russians advanced, hung by their own countrymen.

No nation has murdered more civilians in war, than the good old USA. Even the murderous Hitler wasn't nearly as bad. He refused to bomb London, until Churchill bombed his civilians.

I think you've neglected the battle of Britain, dumbass. The way you talk convinces me that you really do have shitforbrains.

 

[harmonica]

during ww2 germany bombed several european cities and launched v2 rockets (and bombed) londen.

they siezed the land of other countries and imprisoned and tortured the citizens of those countries.

nazi production and research facilities were mostly in civilian areas.

why does the op cast dispersions on the allied forces who freed those countries, at great cost?

Is that a justification for mass murdering defenseless civilians of a nation ruled by a fanatical dictator?

it is a justification of the "total war" strategy that was required to defeat an enemy that itself had and was waging war on civilians.

on a related note, both hiruhito and hitler announced to the world that ALL their respective citizens were defenders of the fatherland and would be expected to fight to the death. A few russian accounts of the fall of berlin i have read document nazi radio broadcasting this message as they fought their way into berlin...street by street. Those germans that wouldnt fight were seen hanging from lightpoles as the russians advanced, hung by their own countrymen.

No nation has murdered more civilians in war, than the good old USA. Even the murderous Hitler wasn't nearly as bad. He refused to bomb London, until Churchill bombed his civilians.

I think you've neglected the battle of Britain, dumbass. The way you talk convinces me that you really do have shitforbrains.

he is under the impression hitler was the good guy

 

[gipper]

during ww2 germany bombed several european cities and launched v2 rockets (and bombed) londen.

they siezed the land of other countries and imprisoned and tortured the citizens of those countries.

nazi production and research facilities were mostly in civilian areas.

why does the op cast dispersions on the allied forces who freed those countries, at great cost?

Is that a justification for mass murdering defenseless civilians of a nation ruled by a fanatical dictator?

it is a justification of the "total war" strategy that was required to defeat an enemy that itself had and was waging war on civilians.

on a related note, both hiruhito and hitler announced to the world that ALL their respective citizens were defenders of the fatherland and would be expected to fight to the death. A few russian accounts of the fall of berlin i have read document nazi radio broadcasting this message as they fought their way into berlin...street by street. Those germans that wouldnt fight were seen hanging from lightpoles as the russians advanced, hung by their own countrymen.

No nation has murdered more civilians in war, than the good old USA. Even the murderous Hitler wasn't nearly as bad. He refused to bomb London, until Churchill bombed his civilians.

I think you've neglected the battle of Britain, dumbass. The way you talk convinces me that you really do have shitforbrains.

LOL. You just exposed yourself as uninformed.

You better read up on the Battle of Britain. LMFAO.

 

[Dick Foster]

during ww2 germany bombed several european cities and launched v2 rockets (and bombed) londen.

they siezed the land of other countries and imprisoned and tortured the citizens of those countries.

nazi production and research facilities were mostly in civilian areas.

why does the op cast dispersions on the allied forces who freed those countries, at great cost?

Is that a justification for mass murdering defenseless civilians of a nation ruled by a fanatical dictator?

it is a justification of the "total war" strategy that was required to defeat an enemy that itself had and was waging war on civilians.

on a related note, both hiruhito and hitler announced to the world that ALL their respective citizens were defenders of the fatherland and would be expected to fight to the death. A few russian accounts of the fall of berlin i have read document nazi radio broadcasting this message as they fought their way into berlin...street by street. Those germans that wouldnt fight were seen hanging from lightpoles as the russians advanced, hung by their own countrymen.

No nation has murdered more civilians in war, than the good old USA. Even the murderous Hitler wasn't nearly as bad. He refused to bomb London, until Churchill bombed his civilians.

I think you've neglected the battle of Britain, dumbass. The way you talk convinces me that you really do have shitforbrains.

LOL. You just exposed yourself as uninformed.

You better read up on the Battle of Britain. LMFAO.

What do you need to know about it, shitforbrains?

I will go this far, Britan and France did much to bring Hitler and WWII upon themselves with the treaty of Versailles. That's as far as I'll go.

 

[gipper]

Is that a justification for mass murdering defenseless civilians of a nation ruled by a fanatical dictator?

it is a justification of the "total war" strategy that was required to defeat an enemy that itself had and was waging war on civilians.

on a related note, both hiruhito and hitler announced to the world that ALL their respective citizens were defenders of the fatherland and would be expected to fight to the death. A few russian accounts of the fall of berlin i have read document nazi radio broadcasting this message as they fought their way into berlin...street by street. Those germans that wouldnt fight were seen hanging from lightpoles as the russians advanced, hung by their own countrymen.

No nation has murdered more civilians in war, than the good old USA. Even the murderous Hitler wasn't nearly as bad. He refused to bomb London, until Churchill bombed his civilians.

I think you've neglected the battle of Britain, dumbass. The way you talk convinces me that you really do have shitforbrains.

LOL. You just exposed yourself as uninformed.

You better read up on the Battle of Britain. LMFAO.

What do you need to know about it, shitforbrains?

I will go this far, Britan and France did much to bring Hitler and WWII upon themselves with the treaty of Versailles. That's as far as I'll go.

Now you double down on dumb.

Hitler started bombing the UK’s military installations. Only. Then, Churchill the total war fucker bombed German civilians. Hitler then stated bombing UK cities.

So dumbass, learn history before posting.

 

[SandSquid]

it is a justification of the "total war" strategy that was required to defeat an enemy that itself had and was waging war on civilians.

on a related note, both hiruhito and hitler announced to the world that ALL their respective citizens were defenders of the fatherland and would be expected to fight to the death. A few russian accounts of the fall of berlin i have read document nazi radio broadcasting this message as they fought their way into berlin...street by street. Those germans that wouldnt fight were seen hanging from lightpoles as the russians advanced, hung by their own countrymen.

No nation has murdered more civilians in war, than the good old USA. Even the murderous Hitler wasn't nearly as bad. He refused to bomb London, until Churchill bombed his civilians.

I think you've neglected the battle of Britain, dumbass. The way you talk convinces me that you really do have shitforbrains.

LOL. You just exposed yourself as uninformed.

You better read up on the Battle of Britain. LMFAO.

What do you need to know about it, shitforbrains?

I will go this far, Britan and France did much to bring Hitler and WWII upon themselves with the treaty of Versailles. That's as far as I'll go.

Now you double down on dumb.

Hitler started bombing the UK’s military installations. Only. Then, Churchill the total war fucker bombed German civilians. Hitler then stated bombing UK cities.

So dumbass, learn history before posting.

Agree, history is interesting... You are right. No one COMES CLOSE to the civilian death tolls carried out by the German and Japanese. More civilians who died in Germany were killed by Germany than any other country.

Remember while countries like the UK thought of bombing as a method to fight an enemies military, Germany thought of it as a way to break a countries civilian morale.

It was Hitler in the 30's before Britian had entered the war talking to Nazi high command about the potential of a ruthless employment of the Luftwaffe against the heart of the British will to resist that would follow when the moment was right.

The first shots of WWII was Hitler intentionally bombing civilian populations with no military presence there in bombing raids against Poland killing tens of thousands of civilians. Intentionally targeting hospitals and fleeing refugees was part of the attack to force Poland to surrender quickly from the terror bombing. Polish cities with no military value or protection were used as test subjects to test out new Nazi weapons by bombers and see their effectiveness. The first attack of WWII was a war crime, and nullified the agreement by the British that they would not attack anything but military targets as long as Germany did the same.


29 Nov 1939, German High Commands Directive No. 9 is put out by Hitler – "Instructions For Warfare Against The Economy Of The Enemy" called for the intentional bombing of civilian industrial area's in the UK.

March 16, 1940, while England STILL has a ban on attacking land targets, Germany bombs a naval yard killing the first civilians in the UK.

May 9, 1940, Germany begins indiscriminate bombing of France including cities not defended with no military value as part of their terror war, killing thousands of civilians.

Germany also threatens the Dutch to surrender or it will bomb the civilian population in the beseiged city of Rotterdam.

May 11, 1940, German roads and bridges west of the Rhine are deemed acceptable to attack by Britain, in order to slow down the German rush into France after Germany has carried out it's terror bombing vs. multiple allied nations.

13 May, 1940 German High commands "Directive No. 13" authorized the Luftwaffe "to attack the English homeland in the fullest manner, as soon as sufficient forces are available."

14 May 1940. German bombers ordered to destroy Rotterdam targeting the center of the city. Dutch surrendered, but too late as bombers were already underway. 30 thousand civilians killed. This intentional targeting of a civilian population outside of combat zones to inflict the most civilian casualties caused the British to allow attacking civilian industrial sites that aided Germany's war effort.

 

[gipper]

No nation has murdered more civilians in war, than the good old USA. Even the murderous Hitler wasn't nearly as bad. He refused to bomb London, until Churchill bombed his civilians.

I think you've neglected the battle of Britain, dumbass. The way you talk convinces me that you really do have shitforbrains.

LOL. You just exposed yourself as uninformed.

You better read up on the Battle of Britain. LMFAO.

What do you need to know about it, shitforbrains?

I will go this far, Britan and France did much to bring Hitler and WWII upon themselves with the treaty of Versailles. That's as far as I'll go.

Now you double down on dumb.

Hitler started bombing the UK’s military installations. Only. Then, Churchill the total war fucker bombed German civilians. Hitler then stated bombing UK cities.

So dumbass, learn history before posting.

Agree, history is interesting... You are right. No one COMES CLOSE to the civilian death tolls carried out by the German and Japanese. More civilians who died in Germany were killed by Germany than any other country.

Remember while countries like the UK thought of bombing as a method to fight an enemies military, Germany thought of it as a way to break a countries civilian morale.

It was Hitler in the 30's before Britian had entered the war talking to Nazi high command about the potential of a ruthless employment of the Luftwaffe against the heart of the British will to resist that would follow when the moment was right.

The first shots of WWII was Hitler intentionally bombing civilian populations with no military presence there in bombing raids against Poland killing tens of thousands of civilians. Intentionally targeting hospitals and fleeing refugees was part of the attack to force Poland to surrender quickly from the terror bombing. Polish cities with no military value or protection were used as test subjects to test out new Nazi weapons by bombers and see their effectiveness. The first attack of WWII was a war crime, and nullified the agreement by the British that they would not attack anything but military targets as long as Germany did the same.


29 Nov 1939, German High Commands Directive No. 9 is put out by Hitler – "Instructions For Warfare Against The Economy Of The Enemy" called for the intentional bombing of civilian industrial area's in the UK.

March 16, 1940, while England STILL has a ban on attacking land targets, Germany bombs a naval yard killing the first civilians in the UK.

May 9, 1940, Germany begins indiscriminate bombing of France including cities not defended with no military value as part of their terror war, killing thousands of civilians.

Germany also threatens the Dutch to surrender or it will bomb the civilian population in the beseiged city of Rotterdam.

May 11, 1940, German roads and bridges west of the Rhine are deemed acceptable to attack by Britain, in order to slow down the German rush into France after Germany has carried out it's terror bombing vs. multiple allied nations.

13 May, 1940 German High commands "Directive No. 13" authorized the Luftwaffe "to attack the English homeland in the fullest manner, as soon as sufficient forces are available."

14 May 1940. German bombers ordered to destroy Rotterdam targeting the center of the city. Dutch surrendered, but too late as bombers were already underway. 30 thousand civilians killed. This intentional targeting of a civilian population outside of combat zones to inflict the most civilian casualties caused the British to allow attacking civilian industrial sites that aided Germany's war effort.

Which nations in WWII incurred the most civilian casualties? This isn’t a tough question to answer. The facts are indisputable. Great Britain incurred only 60k. So apparently, Hitler wasn’t very good at killing Brit civilians.

Germany incurred nearly 4 million civilians and Japan 360k. Now who was responsible for these massive casualties?

I am not disputing the horrible atrocities committed by Germany and Japan, against civilian populations. However I recognize the fact that the US and Britain also committed horrible atrocities. This fact is something many Americans refuse to accept or justify as tactics used to win the war.

Civilian Casualties of World War Two - History Learning Site

 

[SandSquid]

I think you've neglected the battle of Britain, dumbass. The way you talk convinces me that you really do have shitforbrains.

LOL. You just exposed yourself as uninformed.

You better read up on the Battle of Britain. LMFAO.

What do you need to know about it, shitforbrains?

I will go this far, Britan and France did much to bring Hitler and WWII upon themselves with the treaty of Versailles. That's as far as I'll go.

Now you double down on dumb.

Hitler started bombing the UK’s military installations. Only. Then, Churchill the total war fucker bombed German civilians. Hitler then stated bombing UK cities.

So dumbass, learn history before posting.

Agree, history is interesting... You are right. No one COMES CLOSE to the civilian death tolls carried out by the German and Japanese. More civilians who died in Germany were killed by Germany than any other country.

Remember while countries like the UK thought of bombing as a method to fight an enemies military, Germany thought of it as a way to break a countries civilian morale.

It was Hitler in the 30's before Britian had entered the war talking to Nazi high command about the potential of a ruthless employment of the Luftwaffe against the heart of the British will to resist that would follow when the moment was right.

The first shots of WWII was Hitler intentionally bombing civilian populations with no military presence there in bombing raids against Poland killing tens of thousands of civilians. Intentionally targeting hospitals and fleeing refugees was part of the attack to force Poland to surrender quickly from the terror bombing. Polish cities with no military value or protection were used as test subjects to test out new Nazi weapons by bombers and see their effectiveness. The first attack of WWII was a war crime, and nullified the agreement by the British that they would not attack anything but military targets as long as Germany did the same.


29 Nov 1939, German High Commands Directive No. 9 is put out by Hitler – "Instructions For Warfare Against The Economy Of The Enemy" called for the intentional bombing of civilian industrial area's in the UK.

March 16, 1940, while England STILL has a ban on attacking land targets, Germany bombs a naval yard killing the first civilians in the UK.

May 9, 1940, Germany begins indiscriminate bombing of France including cities not defended with no military value as part of their terror war, killing thousands of civilians.

Germany also threatens the Dutch to surrender or it will bomb the civilian population in the beseiged city of Rotterdam.

May 11, 1940, German roads and bridges west of the Rhine are deemed acceptable to attack by Britain, in order to slow down the German rush into France after Germany has carried out it's terror bombing vs. multiple allied nations.

13 May, 1940 German High commands "Directive No. 13" authorized the Luftwaffe "to attack the English homeland in the fullest manner, as soon as sufficient forces are available."

14 May 1940. German bombers ordered to destroy Rotterdam targeting the center of the city. Dutch surrendered, but too late as bombers were already underway. 30 thousand civilians killed. This intentional targeting of a civilian population outside of combat zones to inflict the most civilian casualties caused the British to allow attacking civilian industrial sites that aided Germany's war effort.

Which nations in WWII incurred the most civilian casualties? This isn’t a tough question to answer. The facts are indisputable. Great Britain incurred only 60k. So apparently, Hitler wasn’t very good at killing Brit civilians.

Germany incurred nearly 4 million civilians and Japan 360k. Now who was responsible for these massive casualties?

I am not disputing the horrible atrocities committed by Germany and Japan, against civilian populations. However I recognize the fact that the US and Britain also committed horrible atrocities. This fact is something many Americans refuse to accept or justify as tactics used to win the war.

Civilian Casualties of World War Two - History Learning Site

Honestly. War is hell. We didn't have smart bombs. We didn't have the tech to fight a "clean" war and we probably never will and when Germany and Japan started the war, they knew that.

Germany was brutal not just against Germans. Estimates are 400k civilian deaths of allied bombing in Germany. I know holocaust and other nazi related genocides aren't well documented on body count (though yours does seem high), but if you figure the 22k civilians killed in ground fighting number, you are saying 9 out of 10 german civilians were killed by... Nazi Germany.

I agree, Hitler was much better at killing German civilians than the British. Germany was also much better at killing British Civilians than Britain was. In fact Germany was the best at killing a LOT of countries civilian population in Europe.

Japan had 360k civilian deaths while their war on China killed nearly 20 million civilians.

In the end, those Axis powers like Germany and Japan are the only ones who chose to kill civilians intentionally to start wars against peaceful nations. Germany weighed peace vs. killing civilians and chose the latter.


The Allied choice was do they not try and stop german/Japanese production and save the civilians working for the enemy knowing that they'll be sending home more of their own forces in body bags and allowing the genocide and civilian slaughter of those countries to continue? Or do they try and stop Germany/Japan from continuing it's war and genocide of innocent civilians at all costs?


So who was responsible for German and Japanese civilian casualties? Germany and Japan. No one forced them to start a war. No major war has ever been proven to be able to be fought without civilian deaths. Both countries committed atrocities against foreign civilians in insane numbers (both had a country with 20 million civilian deaths that they caused via war) No one forced them to kill tens of millions of civilians in their genocides.

 

[gipper]

LOL. You just exposed yourself as uninformed.

You better read up on the Battle of Britain. LMFAO.

What do you need to know about it, shitforbrains?

I will go this far, Britan and France did much to bring Hitler and WWII upon themselves with the treaty of Versailles. That's as far as I'll go.

Now you double down on dumb.

Hitler started bombing the UK’s military installations. Only. Then, Churchill the total war fucker bombed German civilians. Hitler then stated bombing UK cities.

So dumbass, learn history before posting.

Agree, history is interesting... You are right. No one COMES CLOSE to the civilian death tolls carried out by the German and Japanese. More civilians who died in Germany were killed by Germany than any other country.

Remember while countries like the UK thought of bombing as a method to fight an enemies military, Germany thought of it as a way to break a countries civilian morale.

It was Hitler in the 30's before Britian had entered the war talking to Nazi high command about the potential of a ruthless employment of the Luftwaffe against the heart of the British will to resist that would follow when the moment was right.

The first shots of WWII was Hitler intentionally bombing civilian populations with no military presence there in bombing raids against Poland killing tens of thousands of civilians. Intentionally targeting hospitals and fleeing refugees was part of the attack to force Poland to surrender quickly from the terror bombing. Polish cities with no military value or protection were used as test subjects to test out new Nazi weapons by bombers and see their effectiveness. The first attack of WWII was a war crime, and nullified the agreement by the British that they would not attack anything but military targets as long as Germany did the same.


29 Nov 1939, German High Commands Directive No. 9 is put out by Hitler – "Instructions For Warfare Against The Economy Of The Enemy" called for the intentional bombing of civilian industrial area's in the UK.

March 16, 1940, while England STILL has a ban on attacking land targets, Germany bombs a naval yard killing the first civilians in the UK.

May 9, 1940, Germany begins indiscriminate bombing of France including cities not defended with no military value as part of their terror war, killing thousands of civilians.

Germany also threatens the Dutch to surrender or it will bomb the civilian population in the beseiged city of Rotterdam.

May 11, 1940, German roads and bridges west of the Rhine are deemed acceptable to attack by Britain, in order to slow down the German rush into France after Germany has carried out it's terror bombing vs. multiple allied nations.

13 May, 1940 German High commands "Directive No. 13" authorized the Luftwaffe "to attack the English homeland in the fullest manner, as soon as sufficient forces are available."

14 May 1940. German bombers ordered to destroy Rotterdam targeting the center of the city. Dutch surrendered, but too late as bombers were already underway. 30 thousand civilians killed. This intentional targeting of a civilian population outside of combat zones to inflict the most civilian casualties caused the British to allow attacking civilian industrial sites that aided Germany's war effort.

Which nations in WWII incurred the most civilian casualties? This isn’t a tough question to answer. The facts are indisputable. Great Britain incurred only 60k. So apparently, Hitler wasn’t very good at killing Brit civilians.

Germany incurred nearly 4 million civilians and Japan 360k. Now who was responsible for these massive casualties?

I am not disputing the horrible atrocities committed by Germany and Japan, against civilian populations. However I recognize the fact that the US and Britain also committed horrible atrocities. This fact is something many Americans refuse to accept or justify as tactics used to win the war.

Civilian Casualties of World War Two - History Learning Site

Honestly. War is hell. We didn't have smart bombs. We didn't have the tech to fight a "clean" war and we probably never will and when Germany and Japan started the war, they knew that.

Germany was brutal not just against Germans. Estimates are 400k civilian deaths of allied bombing in Germany. I know holocaust and other nazi related genocides aren't well documented on body count (though yours does seem high), but if you figure the 22k civilians killed in ground fighting number, you are saying 9 out of 10 german civilians were killed by... Nazi Germany.

I agree, Hitler was much better at killing German civilians than the British. Germany was also much better at killing British Civilians than Britain was. In fact Germany was the best at killing a LOT of countries civilian population in Europe.

Japan had 360k civilian deaths while their war on China killed nearly 20 million civilians.

In the end, those Axis powers like Germany and Japan are the only ones who chose to kill civilians intentionally to start wars against peaceful nations. Germany weighed peace vs. killing civilians and chose the latter.


The Allied choice was do they not try and stop german/Japanese production and save the civilians working for the enemy knowing that they'll be sending home more of their own forces in body bags and allowing the genocide and civilian slaughter of those countries to continue? Or do they try and stop Germany/Japan from continuing it's war and genocide of innocent civilians at all costs?


So who was responsible for German and Japanese civilian casualties? Germany and Japan. No one forced them to start a war. No major war has ever been proven to be able to be fought without civilian deaths. Both countries committed atrocities against foreign civilians in insane numbers (both had a country with 20 million civilian deaths that they caused via war) No one forced them to kill tens of millions of civilians in their genocides.

No way. Truman’s mass murder of women and children with the a-bombs, was nothing short of a war crime. The aerial bombings of German and Japanese cities including the horrendous fire bombings, were all war crimes.

Americans want to believe their government better, when history clearly shows it is no better.

 

[pismoe]

What do you need to know about it, shitforbrains?

I will go this far, Britan and France did much to bring Hitler and WWII upon themselves with the treaty of Versailles. That's as far as I'll go.

Now you double down on dumb.

Hitler started bombing the UK’s military installations. Only. Then, Churchill the total war fucker bombed German civilians. Hitler then stated bombing UK cities.

So dumbass, learn history before posting.

Agree, history is interesting... You are right. No one COMES CLOSE to the civilian death tolls carried out by the German and Japanese. More civilians who died in Germany were killed by Germany than any other country.

Remember while countries like the UK thought of bombing as a method to fight an enemies military, Germany thought of it as a way to break a countries civilian morale.

It was Hitler in the 30's before Britian had entered the war talking to Nazi high command about the potential of a ruthless employment of the Luftwaffe against the heart of the British will to resist that would follow when the moment was right.

The first shots of WWII was Hitler intentionally bombing civilian populations with no military presence there in bombing raids against Poland killing tens of thousands of civilians. Intentionally targeting hospitals and fleeing refugees was part of the attack to force Poland to surrender quickly from the terror bombing. Polish cities with no military value or protection were used as test subjects to test out new Nazi weapons by bombers and see their effectiveness. The first attack of WWII was a war crime, and nullified the agreement by the British that they would not attack anything but military targets as long as Germany did the same.


29 Nov 1939, German High Commands Directive No. 9 is put out by Hitler – "Instructions For Warfare Against The Economy Of The Enemy" called for the intentional bombing of civilian industrial area's in the UK.

March 16, 1940, while England STILL has a ban on attacking land targets, Germany bombs a naval yard killing the first civilians in the UK.

May 9, 1940, Germany begins indiscriminate bombing of France including cities not defended with no military value as part of their terror war, killing thousands of civilians.

Germany also threatens the Dutch to surrender or it will bomb the civilian population in the beseiged city of Rotterdam.

May 11, 1940, German roads and bridges west of the Rhine are deemed acceptable to attack by Britain, in order to slow down the German rush into France after Germany has carried out it's terror bombing vs. multiple allied nations.

13 May, 1940 German High commands "Directive No. 13" authorized the Luftwaffe "to attack the English homeland in the fullest manner, as soon as sufficient forces are available."

14 May 1940. German bombers ordered to destroy Rotterdam targeting the center of the city. Dutch surrendered, but too late as bombers were already underway. 30 thousand civilians killed. This intentional targeting of a civilian population outside of combat zones to inflict the most civilian casualties caused the British to allow attacking civilian industrial sites that aided Germany's war effort.

Which nations in WWII incurred the most civilian casualties? This isn’t a tough question to answer. The facts are indisputable. Great Britain incurred only 60k. So apparently, Hitler wasn’t very good at killing Brit civilians.

Germany incurred nearly 4 million civilians and Japan 360k. Now who was responsible for these massive casualties?

I am not disputing the horrible atrocities committed by Germany and Japan, against civilian populations. However I recognize the fact that the US and Britain also committed horrible atrocities. This fact is something many Americans refuse to accept or justify as tactics used to win the war.

Civilian Casualties of World War Two - History Learning Site

Honestly. War is hell. We didn't have smart bombs. We didn't have the tech to fight a "clean" war and we probably never will and when Germany and Japan started the war, they knew that.

Germany was brutal not just against Germans. Estimates are 400k civilian deaths of allied bombing in Germany. I know holocaust and other nazi related genocides aren't well documented on body count (though yours does seem high), but if you figure the 22k civilians killed in ground fighting number, you are saying 9 out of 10 german civilians were killed by... Nazi Germany.

I agree, Hitler was much better at killing German civilians than the British. Germany was also much better at killing British Civilians than Britain was. In fact Germany was the best at killing a LOT of countries civilian population in Europe.

Japan had 360k civilian deaths while their war on China killed nearly 20 million civilians.

In the end, those Axis powers like Germany and Japan are the only ones who chose to kill civilians intentionally to start wars against peaceful nations. Germany weighed peace vs. killing civilians and chose the latter.


The Allied choice was do they not try and stop german/Japanese production and save the civilians working for the enemy knowing that they'll be sending home more of their own forces in body bags and allowing the genocide and civilian slaughter of those countries to continue? Or do they try and stop Germany/Japan from continuing it's war and genocide of innocent civilians at all costs?


So who was responsible for German and Japanese civilian casualties? Germany and Japan. No one forced them to start a war. No major war has ever been proven to be able to be fought without civilian deaths. Both countries committed atrocities against foreign civilians in insane numbers (both had a country with 20 million civilian deaths that they caused via war) No one forced them to kill tens of millions of civilians in their genocides.

No way. Truman’s mass murder of women and children with the a-bombs, was nothing short of a war crime. The aerial bombings of German and Japanese cities including the horrendous fire bombings, were all war crimes.

Americans want to believe their government better, when history clearly shows it is no better.

----------------------------------- and thats your OPINION in post number 69 . Others have different Opinions Gipper .

 

[gipper]

Now you double down on dumb.

Hitler started bombing the UK’s military installations. Only. Then, Churchill the total war fucker bombed German civilians. Hitler then stated bombing UK cities.

So dumbass, learn history before posting.

Agree, history is interesting... You are right. No one COMES CLOSE to the civilian death tolls carried out by the German and Japanese. More civilians who died in Germany were killed by Germany than any other country.

Remember while countries like the UK thought of bombing as a method to fight an enemies military, Germany thought of it as a way to break a countries civilian morale.

It was Hitler in the 30's before Britian had entered the war talking to Nazi high command about the potential of a ruthless employment of the Luftwaffe against the heart of the British will to resist that would follow when the moment was right.

The first shots of WWII was Hitler intentionally bombing civilian populations with no military presence there in bombing raids against Poland killing tens of thousands of civilians. Intentionally targeting hospitals and fleeing refugees was part of the attack to force Poland to surrender quickly from the terror bombing. Polish cities with no military value or protection were used as test subjects to test out new Nazi weapons by bombers and see their effectiveness. The first attack of WWII was a war crime, and nullified the agreement by the British that they would not attack anything but military targets as long as Germany did the same.


29 Nov 1939, German High Commands Directive No. 9 is put out by Hitler – "Instructions For Warfare Against The Economy Of The Enemy" called for the intentional bombing of civilian industrial area's in the UK.

March 16, 1940, while England STILL has a ban on attacking land targets, Germany bombs a naval yard killing the first civilians in the UK.

May 9, 1940, Germany begins indiscriminate bombing of France including cities not defended with no military value as part of their terror war, killing thousands of civilians.

Germany also threatens the Dutch to surrender or it will bomb the civilian population in the beseiged city of Rotterdam.

May 11, 1940, German roads and bridges west of the Rhine are deemed acceptable to attack by Britain, in order to slow down the German rush into France after Germany has carried out it's terror bombing vs. multiple allied nations.

13 May, 1940 German High commands "Directive No. 13" authorized the Luftwaffe "to attack the English homeland in the fullest manner, as soon as sufficient forces are available."

14 May 1940. German bombers ordered to destroy Rotterdam targeting the center of the city. Dutch surrendered, but too late as bombers were already underway. 30 thousand civilians killed. This intentional targeting of a civilian population outside of combat zones to inflict the most civilian casualties caused the British to allow attacking civilian industrial sites that aided Germany's war effort.

Which nations in WWII incurred the most civilian casualties? This isn’t a tough question to answer. The facts are indisputable. Great Britain incurred only 60k. So apparently, Hitler wasn’t very good at killing Brit civilians.

Germany incurred nearly 4 million civilians and Japan 360k. Now who was responsible for these massive casualties?

I am not disputing the horrible atrocities committed by Germany and Japan, against civilian populations. However I recognize the fact that the US and Britain also committed horrible atrocities. This fact is something many Americans refuse to accept or justify as tactics used to win the war.

Civilian Casualties of World War Two - History Learning Site

Honestly. War is hell. We didn't have smart bombs. We didn't have the tech to fight a "clean" war and we probably never will and when Germany and Japan started the war, they knew that.

Germany was brutal not just against Germans. Estimates are 400k civilian deaths of allied bombing in Germany. I know holocaust and other nazi related genocides aren't well documented on body count (though yours does seem high), but if you figure the 22k civilians killed in ground fighting number, you are saying 9 out of 10 german civilians were killed by... Nazi Germany.

I agree, Hitler was much better at killing German civilians than the British. Germany was also much better at killing British Civilians than Britain was. In fact Germany was the best at killing a LOT of countries civilian population in Europe.

Japan had 360k civilian deaths while their war on China killed nearly 20 million civilians.

In the end, those Axis powers like Germany and Japan are the only ones who chose to kill civilians intentionally to start wars against peaceful nations. Germany weighed peace vs. killing civilians and chose the latter.


The Allied choice was do they not try and stop german/Japanese production and save the civilians working for the enemy knowing that they'll be sending home more of their own forces in body bags and allowing the genocide and civilian slaughter of those countries to continue? Or do they try and stop Germany/Japan from continuing it's war and genocide of innocent civilians at all costs?


So who was responsible for German and Japanese civilian casualties? Germany and Japan. No one forced them to start a war. No major war has ever been proven to be able to be fought without civilian deaths. Both countries committed atrocities against foreign civilians in insane numbers (both had a country with 20 million civilian deaths that they caused via war) No one forced them to kill tens of millions of civilians in their genocides.

No way. Truman’s mass murder of women and children with the a-bombs, was nothing short of a war crime. The aerial bombings of German and Japanese cities including the horrendous fire bombings, were all war crimes.

Americans want to believe their government better, when history clearly shows it is no better.

----------------------------------- and thats your OPINION in post number 69 . Others have different Opinions Gipper .

LOL. Yeah the US military didn’t mass murder civilians in WWII. LOL!

Is mass murdering civilians NOT a war crime? Oh yes, it isn’t but only for the US.

Crazy!

 

[ozro]

When the leaders of Germany and of Japan declared all their citizens to be required to fight, they ceased being civilians and became enemy combantants.

 

[pismoe]

Agree, history is interesting... You are right. No one COMES CLOSE to the civilian death tolls carried out by the German and Japanese. More civilians who died in Germany were killed by Germany than any other country.

Remember while countries like the UK thought of bombing as a method to fight an enemies military, Germany thought of it as a way to break a countries civilian morale.

It was Hitler in the 30's before Britian had entered the war talking to Nazi high command about the potential of a ruthless employment of the Luftwaffe against the heart of the British will to resist that would follow when the moment was right.

The first shots of WWII was Hitler intentionally bombing civilian populations with no military presence there in bombing raids against Poland killing tens of thousands of civilians. Intentionally targeting hospitals and fleeing refugees was part of the attack to force Poland to surrender quickly from the terror bombing. Polish cities with no military value or protection were used as test subjects to test out new Nazi weapons by bombers and see their effectiveness. The first attack of WWII was a war crime, and nullified the agreement by the British that they would not attack anything but military targets as long as Germany did the same.


29 Nov 1939, German High Commands Directive No. 9 is put out by Hitler – "Instructions For Warfare Against The Economy Of The Enemy" called for the intentional bombing of civilian industrial area's in the UK.

March 16, 1940, while England STILL has a ban on attacking land targets, Germany bombs a naval yard killing the first civilians in the UK.

May 9, 1940, Germany begins indiscriminate bombing of France including cities not defended with no military value as part of their terror war, killing thousands of civilians.

Germany also threatens the Dutch to surrender or it will bomb the civilian population in the beseiged city of Rotterdam.

May 11, 1940, German roads and bridges west of the Rhine are deemed acceptable to attack by Britain, in order to slow down the German rush into France after Germany has carried out it's terror bombing vs. multiple allied nations.

13 May, 1940 German High commands "Directive No. 13" authorized the Luftwaffe "to attack the English homeland in the fullest manner, as soon as sufficient forces are available."

14 May 1940. German bombers ordered to destroy Rotterdam targeting the center of the city. Dutch surrendered, but too late as bombers were already underway. 30 thousand civilians killed. This intentional targeting of a civilian population outside of combat zones to inflict the most civilian casualties caused the British to allow attacking civilian industrial sites that aided Germany's war effort.

Which nations in WWII incurred the most civilian casualties? This isn’t a tough question to answer. The facts are indisputable. Great Britain incurred only 60k. So apparently, Hitler wasn’t very good at killing Brit civilians.

Germany incurred nearly 4 million civilians and Japan 360k. Now who was responsible for these massive casualties?

I am not disputing the horrible atrocities committed by Germany and Japan, against civilian populations. However I recognize the fact that the US and Britain also committed horrible atrocities. This fact is something many Americans refuse to accept or justify as tactics used to win the war.

Civilian Casualties of World War Two - History Learning Site

Honestly. War is hell. We didn't have smart bombs. We didn't have the tech to fight a "clean" war and we probably never will and when Germany and Japan started the war, they knew that.

Germany was brutal not just against Germans. Estimates are 400k civilian deaths of allied bombing in Germany. I know holocaust and other nazi related genocides aren't well documented on body count (though yours does seem high), but if you figure the 22k civilians killed in ground fighting number, you are saying 9 out of 10 german civilians were killed by... Nazi Germany.

I agree, Hitler was much better at killing German civilians than the British. Germany was also much better at killing British Civilians than Britain was. In fact Germany was the best at killing a LOT of countries civilian population in Europe.

Japan had 360k civilian deaths while their war on China killed nearly 20 million civilians.

In the end, those Axis powers like Germany and Japan are the only ones who chose to kill civilians intentionally to start wars against peaceful nations. Germany weighed peace vs. killing civilians and chose the latter.


The Allied choice was do they not try and stop german/Japanese production and save the civilians working for the enemy knowing that they'll be sending home more of their own forces in body bags and allowing the genocide and civilian slaughter of those countries to continue? Or do they try and stop Germany/Japan from continuing it's war and genocide of innocent civilians at all costs?


So who was responsible for German and Japanese civilian casualties? Germany and Japan. No one forced them to start a war. No major war has ever been proven to be able to be fought without civilian deaths. Both countries committed atrocities against foreign civilians in insane numbers (both had a country with 20 million civilian deaths that they caused via war) No one forced them to kill tens of millions of civilians in their genocides.

No way. Truman’s mass murder of women and children with the a-bombs, was nothing short of a war crime. The aerial bombings of German and Japanese cities including the horrendous fire bombings, were all war crimes.

Americans want to believe their government better, when history clearly shows it is no better.

----------------------------------- and thats your OPINION in post number 69 . Others have different Opinions Gipper .

LOL. Yeah the US military didn’t mass murder civilians in WWII. LOL!

Is mass murdering civilians NOT a war crime? Oh yes, it isn’t but only for the US.

Crazy!

------------------------------------------------- feck the 'international kourt' Gipper .

 

[SandSquid]

What do you need to know about it, shitforbrains?

I will go this far, Britan and France did much to bring Hitler and WWII upon themselves with the treaty of Versailles. That's as far as I'll go.

Now you double down on dumb.

Hitler started bombing the UK’s military installations. Only. Then, Churchill the total war fucker bombed German civilians. Hitler then stated bombing UK cities.

So dumbass, learn history before posting.

Agree, history is interesting... You are right. No one COMES CLOSE to the civilian death tolls carried out by the German and Japanese. More civilians who died in Germany were killed by Germany than any other country.

Remember while countries like the UK thought of bombing as a method to fight an enemies military, Germany thought of it as a way to break a countries civilian morale.

It was Hitler in the 30's before Britian had entered the war talking to Nazi high command about the potential of a ruthless employment of the Luftwaffe against the heart of the British will to resist that would follow when the moment was right.

The first shots of WWII was Hitler intentionally bombing civilian populations with no military presence there in bombing raids against Poland killing tens of thousands of civilians. Intentionally targeting hospitals and fleeing refugees was part of the attack to force Poland to surrender quickly from the terror bombing. Polish cities with no military value or protection were used as test subjects to test out new Nazi weapons by bombers and see their effectiveness. The first attack of WWII was a war crime, and nullified the agreement by the British that they would not attack anything but military targets as long as Germany did the same.


29 Nov 1939, German High Commands Directive No. 9 is put out by Hitler – "Instructions For Warfare Against The Economy Of The Enemy" called for the intentional bombing of civilian industrial area's in the UK.

March 16, 1940, while England STILL has a ban on attacking land targets, Germany bombs a naval yard killing the first civilians in the UK.

May 9, 1940, Germany begins indiscriminate bombing of France including cities not defended with no military value as part of their terror war, killing thousands of civilians.

Germany also threatens the Dutch to surrender or it will bomb the civilian population in the beseiged city of Rotterdam.

May 11, 1940, German roads and bridges west of the Rhine are deemed acceptable to attack by Britain, in order to slow down the German rush into France after Germany has carried out it's terror bombing vs. multiple allied nations.

13 May, 1940 German High commands "Directive No. 13" authorized the Luftwaffe "to attack the English homeland in the fullest manner, as soon as sufficient forces are available."

14 May 1940. German bombers ordered to destroy Rotterdam targeting the center of the city. Dutch surrendered, but too late as bombers were already underway. 30 thousand civilians killed. This intentional targeting of a civilian population outside of combat zones to inflict the most civilian casualties caused the British to allow attacking civilian industrial sites that aided Germany's war effort.

Which nations in WWII incurred the most civilian casualties? This isn’t a tough question to answer. The facts are indisputable. Great Britain incurred only 60k. So apparently, Hitler wasn’t very good at killing Brit civilians.

Germany incurred nearly 4 million civilians and Japan 360k. Now who was responsible for these massive casualties?

I am not disputing the horrible atrocities committed by Germany and Japan, against civilian populations. However I recognize the fact that the US and Britain also committed horrible atrocities. This fact is something many Americans refuse to accept or justify as tactics used to win the war.

Civilian Casualties of World War Two - History Learning Site

Honestly. War is hell. We didn't have smart bombs. We didn't have the tech to fight a "clean" war and we probably never will and when Germany and Japan started the war, they knew that.

Germany was brutal not just against Germans. Estimates are 400k civilian deaths of allied bombing in Germany. I know holocaust and other nazi related genocides aren't well documented on body count (though yours does seem high), but if you figure the 22k civilians killed in ground fighting number, you are saying 9 out of 10 german civilians were killed by... Nazi Germany.

I agree, Hitler was much better at killing German civilians than the British. Germany was also much better at killing British Civilians than Britain was. In fact Germany was the best at killing a LOT of countries civilian population in Europe.

Japan had 360k civilian deaths while their war on China killed nearly 20 million civilians.

In the end, those Axis powers like Germany and Japan are the only ones who chose to kill civilians intentionally to start wars against peaceful nations. Germany weighed peace vs. killing civilians and chose the latter.


The Allied choice was do they not try and stop german/Japanese production and save the civilians working for the enemy knowing that they'll be sending home more of their own forces in body bags and allowing the genocide and civilian slaughter of those countries to continue? Or do they try and stop Germany/Japan from continuing it's war and genocide of innocent civilians at all costs?


So who was responsible for German and Japanese civilian casualties? Germany and Japan. No one forced them to start a war. No major war has ever been proven to be able to be fought without civilian deaths. Both countries committed atrocities against foreign civilians in insane numbers (both had a country with 20 million civilian deaths that they caused via war) No one forced them to kill tens of millions of civilians in their genocides.

No way. Truman’s mass murder of women and children with the a-bombs, was nothing short of a war crime. The aerial bombings of German and Japanese cities including the horrendous fire bombings, were all war crimes.

Americans want to believe their government better, when history clearly shows it is no better.

Actually it wasn't.

And yes history show the allies were better. Granted Nazi sympathizers still think they were in the right, and if that's the voice you choose to join, so be it. Sorry. But when you have to suspend reality to make your case, it doesn't help your cause. Which country armed it's civilian population to continue the war? Which one ordered it's women, children and elderly to build government weapons? Ordered its civilian men and women to join their defense force to fight against the US.

And none of what you are saying is defending your earlier lie. Is that something you think is ok? Just lie and hope nobody has the facts to counter it and when you are countered by historical fact ignore it? Kinda sad.

 

[gipper]

Now you double down on dumb.

Hitler started bombing the UK’s military installations. Only. Then, Churchill the total war fucker bombed German civilians. Hitler then stated bombing UK cities.

So dumbass, learn history before posting.

Agree, history is interesting... You are right. No one COMES CLOSE to the civilian death tolls carried out by the German and Japanese. More civilians who died in Germany were killed by Germany than any other country.

Remember while countries like the UK thought of bombing as a method to fight an enemies military, Germany thought of it as a way to break a countries civilian morale.

It was Hitler in the 30's before Britian had entered the war talking to Nazi high command about the potential of a ruthless employment of the Luftwaffe against the heart of the British will to resist that would follow when the moment was right.

The first shots of WWII was Hitler intentionally bombing civilian populations with no military presence there in bombing raids against Poland killing tens of thousands of civilians. Intentionally targeting hospitals and fleeing refugees was part of the attack to force Poland to surrender quickly from the terror bombing. Polish cities with no military value or protection were used as test subjects to test out new Nazi weapons by bombers and see their effectiveness. The first attack of WWII was a war crime, and nullified the agreement by the British that they would not attack anything but military targets as long as Germany did the same.


29 Nov 1939, German High Commands Directive No. 9 is put out by Hitler – "Instructions For Warfare Against The Economy Of The Enemy" called for the intentional bombing of civilian industrial area's in the UK.

March 16, 1940, while England STILL has a ban on attacking land targets, Germany bombs a naval yard killing the first civilians in the UK.

May 9, 1940, Germany begins indiscriminate bombing of France including cities not defended with no military value as part of their terror war, killing thousands of civilians.

Germany also threatens the Dutch to surrender or it will bomb the civilian population in the beseiged city of Rotterdam.

May 11, 1940, German roads and bridges west of the Rhine are deemed acceptable to attack by Britain, in order to slow down the German rush into France after Germany has carried out it's terror bombing vs. multiple allied nations.

13 May, 1940 German High commands "Directive No. 13" authorized the Luftwaffe "to attack the English homeland in the fullest manner, as soon as sufficient forces are available."

14 May 1940. German bombers ordered to destroy Rotterdam targeting the center of the city. Dutch surrendered, but too late as bombers were already underway. 30 thousand civilians killed. This intentional targeting of a civilian population outside of combat zones to inflict the most civilian casualties caused the British to allow attacking civilian industrial sites that aided Germany's war effort.

Which nations in WWII incurred the most civilian casualties? This isn’t a tough question to answer. The facts are indisputable. Great Britain incurred only 60k. So apparently, Hitler wasn’t very good at killing Brit civilians.

Germany incurred nearly 4 million civilians and Japan 360k. Now who was responsible for these massive casualties?

I am not disputing the horrible atrocities committed by Germany and Japan, against civilian populations. However I recognize the fact that the US and Britain also committed horrible atrocities. This fact is something many Americans refuse to accept or justify as tactics used to win the war.

Civilian Casualties of World War Two - History Learning Site

Honestly. War is hell. We didn't have smart bombs. We didn't have the tech to fight a "clean" war and we probably never will and when Germany and Japan started the war, they knew that.

Germany was brutal not just against Germans. Estimates are 400k civilian deaths of allied bombing in Germany. I know holocaust and other nazi related genocides aren't well documented on body count (though yours does seem high), but if you figure the 22k civilians killed in ground fighting number, you are saying 9 out of 10 german civilians were killed by... Nazi Germany.

I agree, Hitler was much better at killing German civilians than the British. Germany was also much better at killing British Civilians than Britain was. In fact Germany was the best at killing a LOT of countries civilian population in Europe.

Japan had 360k civilian deaths while their war on China killed nearly 20 million civilians.

In the end, those Axis powers like Germany and Japan are the only ones who chose to kill civilians intentionally to start wars against peaceful nations. Germany weighed peace vs. killing civilians and chose the latter.


The Allied choice was do they not try and stop german/Japanese production and save the civilians working for the enemy knowing that they'll be sending home more of their own forces in body bags and allowing the genocide and civilian slaughter of those countries to continue? Or do they try and stop Germany/Japan from continuing it's war and genocide of innocent civilians at all costs?


So who was responsible for German and Japanese civilian casualties? Germany and Japan. No one forced them to start a war. No major war has ever been proven to be able to be fought without civilian deaths. Both countries committed atrocities against foreign civilians in insane numbers (both had a country with 20 million civilian deaths that they caused via war) No one forced them to kill tens of millions of civilians in their genocides.

No way. Truman’s mass murder of women and children with the a-bombs, was nothing short of a war crime. The aerial bombings of German and Japanese cities including the horrendous fire bombings, were all war crimes.

Americans want to believe their government better, when history clearly shows it is no better.

Actually it wasn't.

And yes history show the allies were better. Granted Nazi sympathizers still think they were in the right, and if that's the voice you choose to join, so be it. Sorry. But when you have to suspend reality to make your case, it doesn't help your cause. Which country armed it's civilian population to continue the war? Which one ordered it's women, children and elderly to build government weapons? Ordered its civilian men and women to join their defense force to fight against the US.

And none of what you are saying is defending your earlier lie. Is that something you think is ok? Just lie and hope nobody has the facts to counter it and when you are countered by historical fact ignore it? Kinda sad.

Denial.

Statist indoctrination is difficult for some to overcome.

 

[gipper]

Which nations in WWII incurred the most civilian casualties? This isn’t a tough question to answer. The facts are indisputable. Great Britain incurred only 60k. So apparently, Hitler wasn’t very good at killing Brit civilians.

Germany incurred nearly 4 million civilians and Japan 360k. Now who was responsible for these massive casualties?

I am not disputing the horrible atrocities committed by Germany and Japan, against civilian populations. However I recognize the fact that the US and Britain also committed horrible atrocities. This fact is something many Americans refuse to accept or justify as tactics used to win the war.

Civilian Casualties of World War Two - History Learning Site

Honestly. War is hell. We didn't have smart bombs. We didn't have the tech to fight a "clean" war and we probably never will and when Germany and Japan started the war, they knew that.

Germany was brutal not just against Germans. Estimates are 400k civilian deaths of allied bombing in Germany. I know holocaust and other nazi related genocides aren't well documented on body count (though yours does seem high), but if you figure the 22k civilians killed in ground fighting number, you are saying 9 out of 10 german civilians were killed by... Nazi Germany.

I agree, Hitler was much better at killing German civilians than the British. Germany was also much better at killing British Civilians than Britain was. In fact Germany was the best at killing a LOT of countries civilian population in Europe.

Japan had 360k civilian deaths while their war on China killed nearly 20 million civilians.

In the end, those Axis powers like Germany and Japan are the only ones who chose to kill civilians intentionally to start wars against peaceful nations. Germany weighed peace vs. killing civilians and chose the latter.


The Allied choice was do they not try and stop german/Japanese production and save the civilians working for the enemy knowing that they'll be sending home more of their own forces in body bags and allowing the genocide and civilian slaughter of those countries to continue? Or do they try and stop Germany/Japan from continuing it's war and genocide of innocent civilians at all costs?


So who was responsible for German and Japanese civilian casualties? Germany and Japan. No one forced them to start a war. No major war has ever been proven to be able to be fought without civilian deaths. Both countries committed atrocities against foreign civilians in insane numbers (both had a country with 20 million civilian deaths that they caused via war) No one forced them to kill tens of millions of civilians in their genocides.

No way. Truman’s mass murder of women and children with the a-bombs, was nothing short of a war crime. The aerial bombings of German and Japanese cities including the horrendous fire bombings, were all war crimes.

Americans want to believe their government better, when history clearly shows it is no better.

----------------------------------- and thats your OPINION in post number 69 . Others have different Opinions Gipper .

LOL. Yeah the US military didn’t mass murder civilians in WWII. LOL!

Is mass murdering civilians NOT a war crime? Oh yes, it isn’t but only for the US.

Crazy!

------------------------------------------------- feck the 'international kourt' Gipper .

Stop posting. You offer nothing.

 

[rightwinger]

The Allied strategy of WW2 consisted of killing everyone including civilians and destroying everything including priceless monuments in order to force the maniac leaders to surrender. Bill Clinton did the same thing in Yugoslavia but we have been in Afghanistan for the better part of two decades and it seems that members of the U.S. Military have to get permission from politicians to fire a freaking shot. They even court martialled a combat Marine for the crime of pissing on a dead body. A book and a movie (Lone Survivor) seemed to celebrate a failed Seal mission and the media treats Military Veterans like victims with mental illnesses instead of heroes. Obviously we never intended to defeat the enemy in Afghanistan and still don't.

We are not supposed to be engaged in combat operations in Afghanistan. Americans are fed up with senseless deaths

Any soldier pissing on a dead body should be removed from service

 

[gipper]

When the leaders of Germany and of Japan declared all their citizens to be required to fight, they ceased being civilians and became enemy combantants.

Kill. Kill. Kill.

Yet Americans think they are better.

Tell me son how many Americans did the women and children incinerated at Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, etc, kill?

 

[SandSquid]

Agree, history is interesting... You are right. No one COMES CLOSE to the civilian death tolls carried out by the German and Japanese. More civilians who died in Germany were killed by Germany than any other country.

Remember while countries like the UK thought of bombing as a method to fight an enemies military, Germany thought of it as a way to break a countries civilian morale.

It was Hitler in the 30's before Britian had entered the war talking to Nazi high command about the potential of a ruthless employment of the Luftwaffe against the heart of the British will to resist that would follow when the moment was right.

The first shots of WWII was Hitler intentionally bombing civilian populations with no military presence there in bombing raids against Poland killing tens of thousands of civilians. Intentionally targeting hospitals and fleeing refugees was part of the attack to force Poland to surrender quickly from the terror bombing. Polish cities with no military value or protection were used as test subjects to test out new Nazi weapons by bombers and see their effectiveness. The first attack of WWII was a war crime, and nullified the agreement by the British that they would not attack anything but military targets as long as Germany did the same.


29 Nov 1939, German High Commands Directive No. 9 is put out by Hitler – "Instructions For Warfare Against The Economy Of The Enemy" called for the intentional bombing of civilian industrial area's in the UK.

March 16, 1940, while England STILL has a ban on attacking land targets, Germany bombs a naval yard killing the first civilians in the UK.

May 9, 1940, Germany begins indiscriminate bombing of France including cities not defended with no military value as part of their terror war, killing thousands of civilians.

Germany also threatens the Dutch to surrender or it will bomb the civilian population in the beseiged city of Rotterdam.

May 11, 1940, German roads and bridges west of the Rhine are deemed acceptable to attack by Britain, in order to slow down the German rush into France after Germany has carried out it's terror bombing vs. multiple allied nations.

13 May, 1940 German High commands "Directive No. 13" authorized the Luftwaffe "to attack the English homeland in the fullest manner, as soon as sufficient forces are available."

14 May 1940. German bombers ordered to destroy Rotterdam targeting the center of the city. Dutch surrendered, but too late as bombers were already underway. 30 thousand civilians killed. This intentional targeting of a civilian population outside of combat zones to inflict the most civilian casualties caused the British to allow attacking civilian industrial sites that aided Germany's war effort.

Which nations in WWII incurred the most civilian casualties? This isn’t a tough question to answer. The facts are indisputable. Great Britain incurred only 60k. So apparently, Hitler wasn’t very good at killing Brit civilians.

Germany incurred nearly 4 million civilians and Japan 360k. Now who was responsible for these massive casualties?

I am not disputing the horrible atrocities committed by Germany and Japan, against civilian populations. However I recognize the fact that the US and Britain also committed horrible atrocities. This fact is something many Americans refuse to accept or justify as tactics used to win the war.

Civilian Casualties of World War Two - History Learning Site

Honestly. War is hell. We didn't have smart bombs. We didn't have the tech to fight a "clean" war and we probably never will and when Germany and Japan started the war, they knew that.

Germany was brutal not just against Germans. Estimates are 400k civilian deaths of allied bombing in Germany. I know holocaust and other nazi related genocides aren't well documented on body count (though yours does seem high), but if you figure the 22k civilians killed in ground fighting number, you are saying 9 out of 10 german civilians were killed by... Nazi Germany.

I agree, Hitler was much better at killing German civilians than the British. Germany was also much better at killing British Civilians than Britain was. In fact Germany was the best at killing a LOT of countries civilian population in Europe.

Japan had 360k civilian deaths while their war on China killed nearly 20 million civilians.

In the end, those Axis powers like Germany and Japan are the only ones who chose to kill civilians intentionally to start wars against peaceful nations. Germany weighed peace vs. killing civilians and chose the latter.


The Allied choice was do they not try and stop german/Japanese production and save the civilians working for the enemy knowing that they'll be sending home more of their own forces in body bags and allowing the genocide and civilian slaughter of those countries to continue? Or do they try and stop Germany/Japan from continuing it's war and genocide of innocent civilians at all costs?


So who was responsible for German and Japanese civilian casualties? Germany and Japan. No one forced them to start a war. No major war has ever been proven to be able to be fought without civilian deaths. Both countries committed atrocities against foreign civilians in insane numbers (both had a country with 20 million civilian deaths that they caused via war) No one forced them to kill tens of millions of civilians in their genocides.

No way. Truman’s mass murder of women and children with the a-bombs, was nothing short of a war crime. The aerial bombings of German and Japanese cities including the horrendous fire bombings, were all war crimes.

Americans want to believe their government better, when history clearly shows it is no better.

----------------------------------- and thats your OPINION in post number 69 . Others have different Opinions Gipper .

LOL. Yeah the US military didn’t mass murder civilians in WWII. LOL!

Is mass murdering civilians NOT a war crime? Oh yes, it isn’t but only for the US.

Crazy!

It is if you are targeting civilian undefended populations like Japan and Germany did. Which is why in international courts their leaders were tried and found guilty of that.

Japan and Germany forced civilians to manufacture weapons to kill the Allies. Forced those same civilians to fight to the death to defend their regimes as a military force. Their cities were defended. They would Intentionally put factories and build weapons near civilian homes to try and protect them.

I'm sorry but using your civilians as human shields so you can kill more American soldiers is not something I will EVER defend. I leave that for the nazi's to defend. They tried, Hermann Goring, Gustav Krupp, and Wilhelm Keitel were a few who attempted to defend that action who you appear to have the same belief. They were convicted of their war crimes.

 

[SandSquid]

Honestly. War is hell. We didn't have smart bombs. We didn't have the tech to fight a "clean" war and we probably never will and when Germany and Japan started the war, they knew that.

Germany was brutal not just against Germans. Estimates are 400k civilian deaths of allied bombing in Germany. I know holocaust and other nazi related genocides aren't well documented on body count (though yours does seem high), but if you figure the 22k civilians killed in ground fighting number, you are saying 9 out of 10 german civilians were killed by... Nazi Germany.

I agree, Hitler was much better at killing German civilians than the British. Germany was also much better at killing British Civilians than Britain was. In fact Germany was the best at killing a LOT of countries civilian population in Europe.

Japan had 360k civilian deaths while their war on China killed nearly 20 million civilians.

In the end, those Axis powers like Germany and Japan are the only ones who chose to kill civilians intentionally to start wars against peaceful nations. Germany weighed peace vs. killing civilians and chose the latter.


The Allied choice was do they not try and stop german/Japanese production and save the civilians working for the enemy knowing that they'll be sending home more of their own forces in body bags and allowing the genocide and civilian slaughter of those countries to continue? Or do they try and stop Germany/Japan from continuing it's war and genocide of innocent civilians at all costs?


So who was responsible for German and Japanese civilian casualties? Germany and Japan. No one forced them to start a war. No major war has ever been proven to be able to be fought without civilian deaths. Both countries committed atrocities against foreign civilians in insane numbers (both had a country with 20 million civilian deaths that they caused via war) No one forced them to kill tens of millions of civilians in their genocides.

No way. Truman’s mass murder of women and children with the a-bombs, was nothing short of a war crime. The aerial bombings of German and Japanese cities including the horrendous fire bombings, were all war crimes.

Americans want to believe their government better, when history clearly shows it is no better.

----------------------------------- and thats your OPINION in post number 69 . Others have different Opinions Gipper .

LOL. Yeah the US military didn’t mass murder civilians in WWII. LOL!

Is mass murdering civilians NOT a war crime? Oh yes, it isn’t but only for the US.

Crazy!

------------------------------------------------- feck the 'international kourt' Gipper .

Stop posting. You offer nothing.

So that is your response when I ask you to defend your lie.... Bravo!