How to cut and run

[Gunny]

Like Iraq this is the issue I don't think people "get".

Good thing we have you "smarter than the averge bear" types to keep us straight.

You can't export your democracy to another country if the majority of the people you are fighting against are the ones that are willing to fight, and fight hard.

? Nonsensical statement.

I don't think I've ever heard a VN vet ever say anything good about S. VN troops.

You would be incorrect. VN vets don't say anything good about politically appointed rather than qualified officers. Troops that were led well, fought well. The South Vietnamese were no exception.

Its the same in Iraq, except it seems more likely we'll have 2-3 seperate nations come out of it than a unified one.

What's the same? The majority isn't fighting against us in Iraq. Islamic extremists are. Are you saying THEY are the majority instead of the small minority of Muslims we keep hearing about?

Or are you just wrong?

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Like Iraq this is the issue I don't think people "get".

You can't export your democracy to another country if the majority of the people you are fighting against are the ones that are willing to fight, and fight hard..

That sentence doesnt even make any sense.

I don't think I've ever heard a VN vet ever say anything good about S. VN troops..

And I dont think Ive ever heard a liberal say anything good about US VN vets. Especially J Kerry.

Its the same in Iraq, except it seems more likely we'll have 2-3 seperate nations come out of it than a unified one.

No its not. MOST soldiers have a very different view than you are claiming about the Iraqi security, and the citizens. You are long on opinions and short on facts.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Still believe in the Domino Theory, huh? Tell me, is it true that Vietnam has one of the hottest economies in the world right now? Hmmmm....maybe they are interested in surviving instead of prolonging some ideological game. The Domino Theory was discredited 20 years ago. Perhaps you didn't hear the news. :tdown2:

Domino theory was working fine until USSR could no longer afford the expansion because we broke their economic backs in the arms race.

Vietnam is flourishing only because it is basically a captitalistic system now.

 

[MGB]

Vietnam is flourishing only because it is basically a captitalistic system now.


Well, we can agree on that. But WHY is it so? Could it be that once the Vietnamese people were left alone to work things out, they came up with a system that was appropriate and workable for themselves?

There are some people who don't LIKE having ideas crammed down their throats. In fact, Americans are FAMOUS for this! Why do we think OTHERS will enjoy what we do not?

Curious, no? :scratch:

 

[trobinett]

Vietnam is flourishing only because it is basically a captitalistic system now.


Well, we can agree on that. But WHY is it so? Could it be that once the Vietnamese people were left alone to work things out, they came up with a system that was appropriate and workable for themselves?

There are some people who don't LIKE having ideas crammed down their throats. In fact, Americans are FAMOUS for this! Why do we think OTHERS will enjoy what we do not?

Curious, no? :scratch:

Not so "curious" MG, but WHO'S doing the cramming?

 

[CSM]

Vietnam is flourishing only because it is basically a captitalistic system now.


Well, we can agree on that. But WHY is it so? Could it be that once the Vietnamese people were left alone to work things out, they came up with a system that was appropriate and workable for themselves?

There are some people who don't LIKE having ideas crammed down their throats. In fact, Americans are FAMOUS for this! Why do we think OTHERS will enjoy what we do not?

Curious, no? :scratch:

It could also be that once the Communists got in power, and the Soviet Union fell, they realized their idealism wasn't putting food on the table. Nothing like a little starvation to mellow your anti-capitalist stance.

As for cramming ideas, I think we can agree. I sure as hell don't want Islam (or any other religion) crammed down my throat. Maybe you can talk the Islamic extremists into toning down their rhetoric and being a little more tolerant of the West!

The truth is I didn't think a whole lot one way or the other about Muslims and the Middle East...not even after they Marines got blown up in Bierut. Once they World Trade center was attacked the first time I started to pay attention and after 9/11, I was convinced. I do not believe that poverty is the issue. I believe Islam is. The extremists say they want to destroy the West and I believe them; I, for one, will not standy idly by and let them.

 

[MGB]

they realized their idealism wasn't putting food on the table. Nothing like a little starvation to mellow your anti-capitalist stance.


Yeah, starvation does tend to get one's attention!

Nice post, CSM. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Redhots]

Domino theory was working fine until USSR could no longer afford the expansion because we broke their economic backs in the arms race.

Thats another irony with the current "War on Terror".

Box cutters: $7
Plane tickets: $6000

Iraq war: $340 Billion+

 

[trobinett]

Thats another irony with the current "War on Terror".

Box cutters: $7
Plane tickets: $6000

Iraq war: $340 Billion+

Sorry, I don't see the "irony" in your "cost comparison".

The only "irony" I see, is that the terrorist are willing to impale themselves on our spear tip, and destroy their culture in the process.:crutch:

Even if the WAR ended tomorrow, it would take generations for the Islamic community to repair its self, if EVER.

Its like suicide by cop-death at the hands of your enemy.

Never made ANY sense to me, now THATS "irony".

 

[deaddude]

Wrong. That monument represents the sacrifice of thousands of lives thrown down the shitter because a bunch of left-wing sewer rats didn't have the stones to finsih what they started.

And if we had finished it how many more names would be on that wall? How many soldiers would not have come home, how many of their children would not have been born becuase we had to "finish the job."

 

[Gunny]

And if we had finished it how many more names would be on that wall? How many soldiers would not have come home, how many of their children would not have been born becuase we had to "finish the job."

What of the Vietnamese people who ook at us at our word and aligned themselves with us only to have us leave them high and dry? Where's THEIR wall? How many of THEM died in the aftermath of our abandoning something we started? Perhaps you feel it's okay to abandon a responsibility if it isn't going just peachy keen for you, but I see it otherwise.

When you start something, you finish it, or you're a loser.

 

[trobinett]

And if we had finished it how many more names would be on that wall? How many soldiers would not have come home, how many of their children would not have been born becuase we had to "finish the job."

Deaddude, this is about reputation, this is about standing shoulder to shoulder with those you've made a commitment too.

Any of this ring a bell?

We just can't keep running out on people we've said we're going to help.

Once was enough............

 

[Gunny]

Deaddude, this is about reputation, this is about standing shoulder to shoulder with those you've made a commitment too.

Any of this ring a bell?

We just can't keep running out on people we've said we're going to help.

Once was enough............

It's about integrity, IMO.

 

[deaddude]

What of the Vietnamese people who ook at us at our word and aligned themselves with us only to have us leave them high and dry? Where's THEIR wall? How many of THEM died in the aftermath of our abandoning something we started? Perhaps you feel it's okay to abandon a responsibility if it isn't going just peachy keen for you, but I see it otherwise.

When you start something, you finish it, or you're a loser.

Then the politicians who start a war should be required to enlist. If you wish to start a war you should be prepared to be one of the ones who finishes it or you're a loser.

 

[trobinett]

Then the politicians who start a war should be required to enlist. If you wish to start a war you should be prepared to be one of the ones who finishes it or you're a loser.

Please, define "loser" for me, just so there isn't any confusion, when I ripe your ass about such a lame ass post.:shocked:

 

[pegwinn]

Then the politicians who start a war should be required to enlist. If you wish to start a war you should be prepared to be one of the ones who finishes it or you're a loser.

And Santa should actually exist side by side with the tooth fairy and the easter bunny. Your post is a childish comeback that translates to "I will hold my breath till I turn blue."

I take it the discussion is now officially over and we can all begin the inane post contest?

 

[dilloduck]

What of the Vietnamese people who ook at us at our word and aligned themselves with us only to have us leave them high and dry? Where's THEIR wall? How many of THEM died in the aftermath of our abandoning something we started? Perhaps you feel it's okay to abandon a responsibility if it isn't going just peachy keen for you, but I see it otherwise.

When you start something, you finish it, or you're a loser.

You nailed it. I owe ya some rep!

 

[deaddude]

And Santa should actually exist side by side with the tooth fairy and the easter bunny. Your post is a childish comeback that translates to "I will hold my breath till I turn blue."

I take it the discussion is now officially over and we can all begin the inane post contest?

Hey it would be a better place if santa and the tooth fairy existed. Don't know much about the easter bunny. He might be a nice guy.

 

[deaddude]

Please, define "loser" for me, just so there isn't any confusion, when I ripe your ass about such a lame ass post.:shocked:

as to that I was simply imitating Gunny's language.

When you start something, you finish it, or you're a loser.

 

[Gunny]

as to that I was simply imitating Gunny's language.

More like trying to mock it. Perhaps integrity means nothing to you, but it defines who we are as individuals, and who we are collectively as a society and Nation. If a man can't honor his word, he's a loser. That would be meaning a gutless, dishonest piece of shit. The same applies at the National level.

Perhaps you don't recall, but it took almost ten years for our National morale to recover post-Vietnam. It wasn't for any perceived loss. It was because we didn't honor our word. Kind of hard to feel good about oneself when you know you're a dishonorable scumbag.