How long before Kurdistan becomes a "Problem"?

Discussion in 'Iraq' started by GHook93, Jan 16, 2009.

  1. High_Gravity
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    High_Gravity Belligerent Drunk Supporting Member

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    Yup, the Kurds are a good people with the resources and the people to run their own country, the only problem is they are hated and despised by all their neighbors/
     
  2. RoccoR
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    RoccoR Gold Member

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    kirkuki; et al,

    OK, I'll take the hit on that.

    (COMMENT)

    But the point is, the Kurd's are not denied representation as Turkish Citizens.

    Everyone is a "Turk" in Turkey. The Constitution doesn't make a distinction between ethnic, tribal or religious affiliation.

    Most Respectfully,
    R
     
  3. High_Gravity
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    Thats all just window dressing, Kurds in Turkey cannot even teach Kurdish in schools and they are not treated the same as regular Turkish citizens, even though it says so on paper. If this were all true the PKK would have no problems with Turkey.
     
  4. RoccoR
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    RoccoR Gold Member

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    High_Gravity, et al,

    Yes, of course. That is what makes the PPK look foolish.

    (COMMENT)

    As for the language issue, that is actually something similar to what the US went through some time ago.

    Under the Turkish Constitution, the primary language for ALL Turks is Turkish.

    While Kurdish is the principle minority language, Arabic, Laz Language, Armenian and Greek are also spoken.

    Ataturk saw a need for all Turks to be bound by a common language.

    While I have always had favorable dealings with the Kurds; not everyone loves the Kurds, and not every country thinks along the same lines as America. So, there will be less than perfect outcomes in countries like Turkey that have to deal with the Kurd on national security matters and the threat. The language is one of those less than perfect outcomes.

    I cannot defend the Turks for the direction they have chosen to take, but it is part of their chosen destiny and the direction they have taken.

    Most Respectfully,
    R










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  5. kirkuki
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    kirkuki Member

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    not long ago a kurd was beaten by turkish police at a checkpoint because "he spoke kurdish" !!

    the turkish constitution article 140 denies kurdish existences despite been 15 million in number , how is this fair !!?? why is US allowing such unfairness to occur in turkey !!! US must drop is "good kurd bad kurd" policy and see kurds in one eye, that is they deserve a nation and a recognized border of their own in the areas they cuurently hold majority which is their ancestral lands by the way , we did not ask or we were not asked after the fall of the ottoman empire to be part of iraq iran turkey and syria , we were forced against our own will and consent , this has to be reversed .

    you cant force people to be something they are not , kurds are not iraqi irani turkish or syrians they are Kurdistanis , we tried been those but all we saw was 'genocide' our villages destroyed chemical gassing , Anfal Campaign etc...

    Czech and Slovakian were forced to be together in the end they separated.
    Germans were forced to be separated in the end they reunited.

    kurds are forced into countries where they are minorities and oppressed, they have to be reunited one day and declare the "great Kurdistan".
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2012
  6. RoccoR
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    RoccoR Gold Member

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    kirkuki, et al,

    Let me try to examine this.

    (COMMENT)

    Turkey, as is most of the Middle East, has trouble with their Law Enforcement and Border Police. Just as we, here in the US, have anecdotal incidents of adverse police confrontations, so it is in Turkey, if not a bit more. Not all countries are as restrained as the US in such matters.

    (COMMENT)

    I'm not sure you have the right Article of the Constitution. The Official English translation from the Government of Turkey shows Article 140 dealing with Judges. I'm having difficulty finding the Turkish Constitution directly addressing the Kurd or Kurdish issue at all. In fact, while the word "Turkish" is used 240 times in the Constitution, the words "Kurd, Kurds, Kurdish" don't appear once (that I can find). Can you be a little more specific?

    (COMMENT)

    There is no - one shoe fits all - solution to these issues. There are clans, tribes and groups, that assimilate --- and --- those that don't. There are various political-military actions that are recorded throughout recent history that target minorities and ethnic differences. The US has several of its own, that did not require separate political subdivision to be created. When dealing with Dictatorial and Authoritarian Governments, particularly those in the Middle East, you will find the moral and ethical considerations rendered by those powers against their citizenry differ significantly from what we consider today as benevolent. The case of the Kurds inability to regionally assimilate is not different. The Kurds now have a chance to establish a quasi-homeland with some autonomy. It is not what they might consider ideal, but it is more than they might expect.

    (COMMENT)

    Unfortunately, the Kurds are not all qualified for nomination into Sainthood. They all don't have clean hands. It is the case that some act neither in the best interest of the Kurdis Regional Government or the best interest in the establishment of their own autonomous region.

    (COMMENT)

    Or, they can assimilate. It is unlikely that other nations are going to voluntarily give-up sovereignty of their territory just to accomodate the Kurds. And any factions (the PPK included) that tries to take such sovereign territory by force will face strong opposition.

    Most Respectfully,
    R
     
  7. kirkuki
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    reality is reality , turks are known for been brutal, does the armenian genocide ring a bell !!?? 3000 kurdish villages were destroyed by turks , saddam did the same in south kurdistan.


    exactly , kurds are denied their existence , ataturk use to call us "mountain turks" many racist turks still do.


    we will fight till we get there, there is nothing that going to stop us , you might slow us down but thats is your cheapest shot.


    it must be step by step , first autonomy then you work on getting more rights like KRG is doing and it is working well.
    :lol:assimilate ??? we have been fighting fascist turkish state for 80 years refusing to assimilate and your asking us in 2012, UN era and arab spring century to abandon our ethnicity and become turks ? what are you the new ataturk reborn !??? keep dreaming Mr. kurds are kurds we will fight for 1000 years to get our state and there is nothing your alikes can do to stop us :D.

    we are the bravest people of ME, turks with all those US power, $ and equipment can not defeat us so forget it already and let the fight continue .

    and nobody is giving us lands , we are already living on our ancestral lands which "was attached to these so called countries" after the fall of the ottoman empires WWII , they have stolen something and we will fight till we take them back , it is now theirs in the first place in order to "give it to us" please cut me the BS will ya !?
     
  8. kirkuki
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    kirkuki Member

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    RoccoR

    here is the reply for your "kurds should assimilate themselve crap"



    we will never back down until a kurdish state carved out of our occupied lands is declared if it takes 1000 years .
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 19, 2014
  9. kirkuki
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    so far two parts of Kurdistan are liberated (South Kurdistan) and (Western Kurdistan) two more to go :D, eastern kurdistan will be liberated once US and Israel attack iran , so it will be poor turkey vs 3 kurdish states :D

    [​IMG]
     

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