How is austerity doing in Europe

[boedicca]

Ireland also has a very low corporate tax rate which invites business investment.

 

[boedicca]

So, the beat goes on. Austerity is still being used as a tool throughout europe. As time passes, we have a good look at how it has worked, so I am trying to reactivate the thread to see what people think after another 6 months or more.
It became obvious that the right wingers did not want to believe anything that was being said by investigative journalists and economists unless it was favorable to austerity. I could care less what the verdict is, just a bit of truth would be useful. Because what is important is that people get back to work, and that economies expand in general. Whether it is because of austerity or spending programs is immaterial. So, try and leave agenda at the door.
By the way, another favorite of the right wing web sites and fox is that austerity is not being practiced anywhere. That is a claim that has been dealt with by numerous economists, and silly IMHO. But, knock yourselves out.
Anything new???

What you call austerity is really just the welfare state system collapsing under its own weight.

Not spending money one doesn't have isn't unnecessary austerity, it's REALITY.

Ah. So all of those nations have no money to spend. Got it. Though that is not true, at all. So, you like austerity. Is it working well for any nation, or are you simply suggesting that whatever happens, no more spending and go down with the ship if that is what the ship is doing.

Next.

Please expain how a nation spending more on social welfare programs than it can afford to is not "going down with the ship".

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Ireland also has a very low corporate tax rate which invites business investment.

yes 12% and so many of the world's great companies relocated there in whole or in part. The US is worlds highest at 35% tax plus 5% state tax and is one of only six countries that collects taxes on the world wide income of our corps. Its no wonder Walgreens and many other want out asap.

Liberals need to punish evil business so badly that they cant think. Liberalism is so stupid that it should be made illegal.

 

[Rshermr]

I did not say social welfare programs specifically, but since you ask:
Same as we did when in 1982, after lowering tax rates to a major degree Reagan raised taxes 11 times, brought in revenue, and spent it on stimulative programs. Worked wonders.
Same process with social programs in general. Say social medicine. Doctor and hospital and medical services get paid, they pay employees and contractors, who buy things. Hope this is simple enough. Called stimulative spending. Works when the economy is in bad shape.
While it is possible to over spend on any program, in most cases europe suffered from a revenue problem big time, not so much a spending problem. Unemployment does that, by definition. If you are not working, you are not paying taxes and you end up with a major deficit. Cutting spending will put you in an even bigger deficit, as Reagan learned in 1981-82.
You are welcome.
Next.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

, brought in revenue, and spent it on stimulative programs. Worked wonders.

of course thats 100% impossible because what the govt taxes and spends the private sector can no longer tax and spend. Simple enough for even a liberal to understand?

 

[boedicca]

I did not say social welfare programs specifically, but since you ask:
Same as we did when in 1982, after lowering tax rates to a major degree Reagan raised taxes 11 times, brought in revenue, and spent it on stimulative programs. Worked wonders.
Same process with social programs in general. Say social medicine. Doctor and hospital and medical services get paid, they pay employees and contractors, who buy things. Hope this is simple enough. Called stimulative spending. Works when the economy is in bad shape.
While it is possible to over spend on any program, in most cases europe suffered from a revenue problem big time, not so much a spending problem. Unemployment does that, by definition. If you are not working, you are not paying taxes and you end up with a major deficit. Cutting spending will put you in an even bigger deficit, as Reagan learned in 1981-82.
You are welcome.
Next.

You are historically ignorant. Reagan lowered income and capital gains taxes much more than the SS tax increase. The economy recovered due to taming inflation and an overall lower tax burden.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Called stimulative spending. Works when the economy is in bad shape.

yes it works for simple fool liberals who don't know that taxing is unstimulative. If you take water out of one side of the lake and pour it in the other does the water level rise? Think about it.

 

[Rshermr]

Ireland also has a very low corporate tax rate which invites business investment.

yes 12% and so many of the world's great companies relocated there in whole or in part. The US is worlds highest at 35% tax plus 5% state tax and is one of only six countries that collects taxes on the world wide income of our corps. Its no wonder Walgreens and many other want out asap.

Liberals need to punish evil business so badly that they cant think. Liberalism is so stupid that it should be made illegal.

And ed is lying again. Here, me boy, is the truth:

Levin, Coburn Release GAO Report Finding U.S. Corporations Pay an Average Effective Tax Rate of 12.6 Percent
Monday, July 1, 2013- See more at: Carl Levin - United States Senator for Michigan: Newsroom - Press Releases

Cons are always talking about the tax rate, not what corporations pay. The US corporate tax rate is relatively high, but the actual rate that they pay is among the lower rates in the world.

 

[Rshermr]

I did not say social welfare programs specifically, but since you ask:
Same as we did when in 1982, after lowering tax rates to a major degree Reagan raised taxes 11 times, brought in revenue, and spent it on stimulative programs. Worked wonders.
Same process with social programs in general. Say social medicine. Doctor and hospital and medical services get paid, they pay employees and contractors, who buy things. Hope this is simple enough. Called stimulative spending. Works when the economy is in bad shape.
While it is possible to over spend on any program, in most cases europe suffered from a revenue problem big time, not so much a spending problem. Unemployment does that, by definition. If you are not working, you are not paying taxes and you end up with a major deficit. Cutting spending will put you in an even bigger deficit, as Reagan learned in 1981-82.
You are welcome.
Next.

You are historically ignorant. Reagan lowered income and capital gains taxes much more than the SS tax increase. The economy recovered due to taming inflation and an overall lower tax burden.

That is a totally stupid statement. The corporations do not tax, or spend taxes, dipshit.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Ireland also has a very low corporate tax rate which invites business investment.

yes 12% and so many of the world's great companies relocated there in whole or in part. The US is worlds highest at 35% tax plus 5% state tax and is one of only six countries that collects taxes on the world wide income of our corps. Its no wonder Walgreens and many other want out asap.

Liberals need to punish evil business so badly that they cant think. Liberalism is so stupid that it should be made illegal.

And ed is lying again. Here, me boy, is the truth:

Levin, Coburn Release GAO Report Finding U.S. Corporations Pay an Average Effective Tax Rate of 12.6 Percent
Monday, July 1, 2013- See more at: Carl Levin - United States Senator for Michigan: Newsroom - Press Releases

Cons are always talking about the tax rate, not what corporations pay. The US corporate tax rate is relatively high, but the actual rate that they pay is among the lower rates in the world.

yes all agree they get from 40% tax to 15% by moving out of the country to lower tax countries like Walgreen is planning. Companies move to China for lower wages and to Ireland for lower taxes.

Its the liberal insanity anti jobs policy!!y

 

[Rshermr]

Called stimulative spending. Works when the economy is in bad shape.

yes it works for simple fool liberals who don't know that taxing is unstimulative. If you take water out of one side of the lake and pour it in the other does the water level rise? Think about it.

Go tell the reagan folks that, dipshit. It worked very well for them. That you are wrong was proved by the fact that the reagan team did not lower taxes, they raised them, and they did not decrease spending, they increased spending.

The fact is, me boy, no president had ever doubled the national debt. Until reagan, who TRIPLED the national debt.

Here is the thing, dipshit. I am not talking about theory. I am talking about the facts. What actually happened, me poor ignorant tool.

 

[boedicca]

Called stimulative spending. Works when the economy is in bad shape.

yes it works for simple fool liberals who don't know that taxing is unstimulative. If you take water out of one side of the lake and pour it in the other does the water level rise? Think about it.

Go tell the reagan folks that, dipshit. It worked very well for them. That you are wrong was proved by the fact that the reagan team did not lower taxes, they raised them, and they did not decrease spending, they increased spending.

The fact is, me boy, no president had ever doubled the national debt. Until reagan, who TRIPLED the national debt.

Here is the thing, dipshit. I am not talking about theory. I am talking about the facts. What actually happened, me poor ignorant tool.

You nattering nabob of nonsense - please learn how to use the quote feature. I did not post what you have attributed to me.

 

[Rshermr]

yes 12% and so many of the world's great companies relocated there in whole or in part. The US is worlds highest at 35% tax plus 5% state tax and is one of only six countries that collects taxes on the world wide income of our corps. Its no wonder Walgreens and many other want out asap.

Liberals need to punish evil business so badly that they cant think. Liberalism is so stupid that it should be made illegal.

And ed is lying again. Here, me boy, is the truth:

Levin, Coburn Release GAO Report Finding U.S. Corporations Pay an Average Effective Tax Rate of 12.6 Percent
Monday, July 1, 2013- See more at: Carl Levin - United States Senator for Michigan: Newsroom - Press Releases

Cons are always talking about the tax rate, not what corporations pay. The US corporate tax rate is relatively high, but the actual rate that they pay is among the lower rates in the world.

yes all agree they get from 40% tax to 15% by moving out of the country to lower tax countries like Walgreen is planning. Companies move to China for lower wages and to Ireland for lower taxes.

Its the liberal insanity anti jobs policy!!y

Now, now ed. You are lying so fast you can not keep track of yourself. What the quote proved is that the GAO has determined that the average tax rate paid by us major corporations is 12.6%. Now, if you can stop lying, you would be stuck having to admit that the US corporate effective tax rate is not very high.

 

[Rshermr]

yes it works for simple fool liberals who don't know that taxing is unstimulative. If you take water out of one side of the lake and pour it in the other does the water level rise? Think about it.

Go tell the reagan folks that, dipshit. It worked very well for them. That you are wrong was proved by the fact that the reagan team did not lower taxes, they raised them, and they did not decrease spending, they increased spending.

The fact is, me boy, no president had ever doubled the national debt. Until reagan, who TRIPLED the national debt.

Here is the thing, dipshit. I am not talking about theory. I am talking about the facts. What actually happened, me poor ignorant tool.

You nattering nabob of nonsense - please learn how to use the quote feature. I did not post what you have attributed to me.

jesus, Boedeca, you are indeed a clown. If you look, you will see that I was not commenting to you. dipshit. I commented to Ed. Who had commented to something I had said. Now I know both of you are lying fools, but try to take your head out of your ass. Then,take a look and see if you can find your name in the string of nested comments. Jesus, it must be tough being that stupid.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I am not talking about theory. I am talking about the facts. What actually happened, me poor ignorant tool.

1) not even Krugman says Reagan proved stimulus works. Of course there were way too many variables for anyone to come to that conclusion, except you. What does that tell us about your IQ?

2) we know that taxing destimulates the economy by destimulating those who are taxed.

Govt stealing and spending does not suddenly make a dollar magical. Please post on fridge for daily review. This is really Econ 101. Sorry to rock your world.

 

[Rshermr]

I am not talking about theory. I am talking about the facts. What actually happened, me poor ignorant tool.

1) not even Krugman says Reagan proved stimulus works. Of course there were way too many variables for anyone to come to that conclusion, except you. What does that tell us about your IQ?

2) we know that taxing destimulates the economy by destimulating those who are taxed.

Govt stealing and spending does not suddenly make a dollar magical. Please post on fridge for daily review. This is really Econ 101. Sorry to rock your world.

Let me know when you can prove anything you say, me boy. A link would be a good start.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I am not talking about theory. I am talking about the facts. What actually happened, me poor ignorant tool.

1) not even Krugman says Reagan proved stimulus works. Of course there were way too many variables for anyone to come to that conclusion, except you. What does that tell us about your IQ?

2) we know that taxing destimulates the economy by destimulating those who are taxed.

Govt stealing and spending does not suddenly make a dollar magical. Please post on fridge for daily review. This is really Econ 101. Sorry to rock your world.

Let me know when you can prove anything you say, me boy. A link would be a good start.

dear your idiotic assertion is that Reagan Administration was perfect scientific experiment that proved tax and spend worked. Is there even one economist that agrees with you?

 

[Rshermr]

European austerity is the model for neo conservative policies.

Why is something always a model to follow? Reminds me of the health insurance debate. Mention you want change and it becomes a battle over using an European model.

What ever happened to the good old fashioned American ingenuity of borrowing and stealing and reworking to fit American society?

and the USA economy is in no condition exactly similar to the shit that hit in Europe or in Europe as a whole.

We are not Europe and it is conservatives who want America to be more like Europe. Saying the USA is becoming like Europe and we need an European fix. Bullshit!

Posting a quote from me that is not something that I posted is just a little dishonest, me boy. I did not make the post that you are trying to attribute to me.

 

[Rshermr]

1) not even Krugman says Reagan proved stimulus works. Of course there were way too many variables for anyone to come to that conclusion, except you. What does that tell us about your IQ?

2) we know that taxing destimulates the economy by destimulating those who are taxed.

Govt stealing and spending does not suddenly make a dollar magical. Please post on fridge for daily review. This is really Econ 101. Sorry to rock your world.

Let me know when you can prove anything you say, me boy. A link would be a good start.

dear your idiotic assertion is that Reagan Administration was perfect scientific experiment that proved tax and spend worked. Is there even one economist that agrees with you?

You know I have done so many times. Lying again, me boy. No integrity at all.
However, lets take it another direction:
1. Do you dispute that reagan increased the national debt by nearly three times it size when he was inaugurated???

He did, of course.

2. Do you admit that after decreasing taxes greatly in 1981, he then increased taxes many times?
He did, of course.

3. Since he increased taxes and spent enough to triple the national debt, do you admit he went back on his pledge to cut taxes and cut the size of government?

You must, if you admit to 1 and 2 above.

Do you admit that after he increased taxes and spent enough to triple the national debt, that unemployment decreased and the deficit decreased??

There you go, me boy. Proof that deficit, or stimulative, spending works. And that your heroe admitted that it indeed did.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

There you go, me boy. Proof that deficit, or stimulative, spending works. And that your heroe admitted that it indeed did.

if it was proof and the matter was closed at least one economist would see it that way but none do. In fact you may be the only person on earth who sees it that way. what does that tell us about your IQ?

If deficits were stimulative then Obama's economy would be roaring since his deficts have totaled $5.8 trillion in 4 years while Reagans totaled only $1.86 trillion in 8 years. How slow are you?