How Does the "Buffet Rule" Fix our national Debt or budget Defecits?

[gallantwarrior]

It doesn't. It's like spitting in the ocean. All it will do is make the rich put more and more of their money in a shelter or over seas. It's a gimmick and the incredibly stupid are buying it.

Don't get me wrong I know we will need to raise revenues for the federal govt along with making drastic spending and program cuts to start to work on paying down Obama and Bush's massive debts they added (way more than previous presidents combined so these 2 get to be responsible).

My issue with the Buffet Rule is that the administration, some liberal media pundits, and some of the liberal members here on the USMB are all selling it as THE Solution to our debt crisis and budget defecits. Its dishonest to portray it this way and hurts the nation by putting forward false hope to citizens in a purely political effort to trick them into voting a certain way. That is my true issue, not the buffet rule itself but how Obama and those like him have dishonestly propped it up as something it isn't.

Unless that one action, one step, is an approved liberal solution. Funny, by their own statements, some of the libs right here recognize what you are saying is a fact. It just fails me why they continue to oppose any solution at all if it is not read out of the liberal-progressive playbook.

uscitizen: No one action or step will fix our problems.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

It doesn't. It's like spitting in the ocean. All it will do is make the rich put more and more of their money in a shelter or over seas. It's a gimmick and the incredibly stupid are buying it.

Don't get me wrong I know we will need to raise revenues for the federal govt along with making drastic spending and program cuts to start to work on paying down Obama and Bush's massive debts they added (way more than previous presidents combined so these 2 get to be responsible).

My issue with the Buffet Rule is that the administration, some liberal media pundits, and some of the liberal members here on the USMB are all selling it as THE Solution to our debt crisis and budget defecits. Its dishonest to portray it this way and hurts the nation by putting forward false hope to citizens in a purely political effort to trick them into voting a certain way. That is my true issue, not the buffet rule itself but how Obama and those like him have dishonestly propped it up as something it isn't.

Unless that one action, one step, is an approved liberal solution. Funny, by their own statements, some of the libs right here recognize what you are saying is a fact. It just fails me why they continue to oppose any solution at all if it is not read out of the liberal-progressive playbook.

uscitizen: No one action or step will fix our problems.

If I dishonestly laid all the blame at the feet of the republicans or the classic blame it all on bush they would decide its ok to agree. That is what is sad, many don't bother to agree even if they know what is being said is true out of fear of hurting "their side" of politics. Pathetic really.

 

[gallantwarrior]

No one action or step will fix our problems.

That right wing mind just cannot comprehend complex answers.

Amusing...

The point is made that the so called "Buffett Rule"...even if it WERE imposed...would have little to no impact on our deficit or debt and you say that right wing minds can't comprehend complexity?

Here's the thing, Us...Barack Obama is currently pushing a new tax which A) he'll never have the votes to get through Congress (something which he knows only too well!) and B) if it WERE adopted would have little to no effect on our deficit. So why would he be wasting our time in this way when we need REAL solutions? The answer to that is quite simple. He thinks "the rich don't pay enough" thing is an issue that he can use to get reelected. Barry doesn't care if it's all just smoke and mirrors...it's something to divert attention from his lack of a REAL economic strategy going forward.

That isn't very complex though...so I guess that even a right winger like myself can figure it out. (eye-roll)

He's pushing obamazombie mind-fuck pablum policies like this because he knows that, whether they pass or fail, he can use them to garner more support from the ignorant electorate that vote for him because of who and what he is, rather than because of any deeper analysis of who and what he is, or what he is doing to this country.

 

[starcraftzzz]

No one action or step will fix our problems.

That right wing mind just cannot comprehend complex answers.

Is it that right wing mind that keeps telling everyone the answer to our prayers is taxing the rich?

You know that 6.4 billion that will balance the budget, or are you referring to those right wing nuts that say taxing the rich at clinton levels solves all of our problems, that nets 70 billion a year.

70 billion is a lot closer to our 1,000 Billion (also called a trillion lol) plus defecit each year than what the buffet rule would do but it still won't solve the problem.

There is no way.....without eliminating, cutting, and reducing government agencies and programs along with raising revenues....to balance the budget and then actually pay off the debt itself.

I see so according to you if we raise taxes enough to bring the deficit down to 0 it would actually not bring the deficit down. So basically you are clueless.
Furthermore there is no need to pay off debt all one needs is GDP growth that results in a shrinking GDP/debt ratio

 

[starcraftzzz]

SO what's the fucking point then, rdean? Is it just a feel good thing for the foaming at the mouth envious in this country about some abitrary "fair share" slogan?

The point is is that we should do intelligent things of which you oppose because you are stupid and intelligence is just another Liberal socialized plot or something

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Is it that right wing mind that keeps telling everyone the answer to our prayers is taxing the rich?

You know that 6.4 billion that will balance the budget, or are you referring to those right wing nuts that say taxing the rich at clinton levels solves all of our problems, that nets 70 billion a year.

70 billion is a lot closer to our 1,000 Billion (also called a trillion lol) plus defecit each year than what the buffet rule would do but it still won't solve the problem.

There is no way.....without eliminating, cutting, and reducing government agencies and programs along with raising revenues....to balance the budget and then actually pay off the debt itself.

I see so according to you if we raise taxes enough to bring the deficit down to 0 it would actually not bring the deficit down. So basically you are clueless.
Furthermore there is no need to pay off debt all one needs is GDP growth that results in a shrinking GDP/debt ratio

What tax rate would effectively do this? Go ahead and do the math...i expect you to admit what you find once you do........

 

[starcraftzzz]

70 billion is a lot closer to our 1,000 Billion (also called a trillion lol) plus defecit each year than what the buffet rule would do but it still won't solve the problem.

There is no way.....without eliminating, cutting, and reducing government agencies and programs along with raising revenues....to balance the budget and then actually pay off the debt itself.

I see so according to you if we raise taxes enough to bring the deficit down to 0 it would actually not bring the deficit down. So basically you are clueless.
Furthermore there is no need to pay off debt all one needs is GDP growth that results in a shrinking GDP/debt ratio

What tax rate would effectively do this? Go ahead and do the math...i expect you to admit what you find once you do........

The deficit is currently 1.4 trillion.
1) 10 cent Soda tax would bring in 130billion a year
What a one-cent soda tax buys - The Washington Post
2) A stock transaction tax of 2% would bring in 400billion a year
Ezra Klein - Research desk answers: How to raise $100 billion from a financial transactions tax
3) A marijuana tax similar to tobacco would reduce the deficit 60billion a year
Costs of Marijuana Prohibition: Economic Analysis
http://leap.cc/dia/miron-economic-report.pdf
4) A pollution tax on energy which would add the environment and health costs to energy consumption would increase revenue by over 500billion
Coal's hidden costs top $345 billion in U.S.: study | Reuters
Fuel taxes in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
5) Repealing the Bush tax cuts for the rich would bring in 80billion a year
6) Making it so rich Hedge funds, billionaires and capital gains taxes all payed rates equal to income taxes would increase revenue by 300billion a year.
Why Keep the Capital Gains Tax Break?
There no we have a suplus

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I see so according to you if we raise taxes enough to bring the deficit down to 0 it would actually not bring the deficit down. So basically you are clueless.
Furthermore there is no need to pay off debt all one needs is GDP growth that results in a shrinking GDP/debt ratio

What tax rate would effectively do this? Go ahead and do the math...i expect you to admit what you find once you do........

The deficit is currently 1.4 trillion.
1) 10 cent Soda tax would bring in 130billion a year
What a one-cent soda tax buys - The Washington Post
2) A stock transaction tax of 2% would bring in 400billion a year
Ezra Klein - Research desk answers: How to raise $100 billion from a financial transactions tax
3) A marijuana tax similar to tobacco would reduce the deficit 60billion a year
Costs of Marijuana Prohibition: Economic Analysis
http://leap.cc/dia/miron-economic-report.pdf
4) A pollution tax on energy which would add the environment and health costs to energy consumption would increase revenue by over 500billion
Coal's hidden costs top $345 billion in U.S.: study | Reuters
Fuel taxes in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
5) Repealing the Bush tax cuts for the rich would bring in 80billion a year
6) Making it so rich Hedge funds, billionaires and capital gains taxes all payed rates equal to income taxes would increase revenue by 300billion a year.
Why Keep the Capital Gains Tax Break?
There no we have a suplus

Now that is not where you were going before...........you are now talking about new taxes that don't exist, new fees, and even making things that currently aren't legal, legal to make money.


Before, responding to my comments about the "Buffet Rule" you said "I see so according to you if we raise taxes enough to bring the deficit down to 0 it would actually not bring the deficit down. So basically you are clueless.
Furthermore there is no need to pay off debt all one needs is GDP growth that results in a shrinking GDP/debt ratio "

I asked to what percentage would you need to raise taxes to do this to which you provided the quoted response.....the response you had is fine, you actually have ideas/plans which I might not think are all good but respect you for having. However, you never did answer the question I challenged you with.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

SO what's the fucking point then, rdean? Is it just a feel good thing for the foaming at the mouth envious in this country about some abitrary "fair share" slogan?

The point is is that we should do intelligent things of which you oppose because you are stupid and intelligence is just another Liberal socialized plot or something

Try reading my posts instead of being a jackanapes

Hell even some senate democrats agree with this thread http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...-pryor-d-buffet-rule-is-a-political-ploy.html

 

[Sallow]

The "Buffet Rule" would raise around 5 Billion dollars a year in tax revenue according to all the sources

Obama's Buffett Rule: A minimum tax for millionaires - Apr. 9, 2012
Buffett rule won
Buffett Rule: Doomed Congressional Tax Debate May Tilt 2012 Election

Our annual budget defecits have been over 1 Trillion dollars a year

Rising revenues narrow deficit, but for how long? - BostonHerald.com



So 5 billion is 0.5% of our annual budget defecit, how does this buffet rule help america?


This is a question that assumes people understand basic economics and historical data on taxes. For example, the raise of the capital gains tax has been shown to actually lower the federal captial gain's tax revenues due to the impacts as explained through the laffer curve.

What about raising the capital gain tax and lower the corporate tax.

Eg. capital gain tax(15% today)-> Make it 28%.
Corporate tax (35% today)-> Make it 22%.
Just an example, but their are probobaly computer programs that can calculate this.

The conecept, higher capital gain tax to stop sepculations and rich people taking out huge dividends and lower corporate taxes to stimulate corporations to hire more people.
Then put a wealth tax on the rich that have build up large fortunes because of a low capital gain tax. A property tax on house/apartment nr.2,3 etc not nr.1(everybody should own a house)
The potential in USA is to take in more taxes from the rich, that dont contribute enough.

A low capital gain tax is just more welfare for the rich.
If the capital gain tax is raised and corporate tax lowered. Corporations are stimulated to hire and rich people will have to work more since taking out capital gain will be less attractive than working.

Since corporate tax<Capital gain tax.

I like that you are thinking.

I'm still curious as to how the Buffet Rule even comes remotely close to addressing our problem of government overspending.

It doesn't.

That will need a complete overhaul of the military industrial complex.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

What about raising the capital gain tax and lower the corporate tax.

Eg. capital gain tax(15% today)-> Make it 28%.
Corporate tax (35% today)-> Make it 22%.
Just an example, but their are probobaly computer programs that can calculate this.

The conecept, higher capital gain tax to stop sepculations and rich people taking out huge dividends and lower corporate taxes to stimulate corporations to hire more people.
Then put a wealth tax on the rich that have build up large fortunes because of a low capital gain tax. A property tax on house/apartment nr.2,3 etc not nr.1(everybody should own a house)
The potential in USA is to take in more taxes from the rich, that dont contribute enough.

A low capital gain tax is just more welfare for the rich.
If the capital gain tax is raised and corporate tax lowered. Corporations are stimulated to hire and rich people will have to work more since taking out capital gain will be less attractive than working.

Since corporate tax<Capital gain tax.

I like that you are thinking.

I'm still curious as to how the Buffet Rule even comes remotely close to addressing our problem of government overspending.

It doesn't.

That will need a complete overhaul of the military industrial complex.

along with what else? That won't do it alone but it is one of the things that I think we have to do.

 

[Euro]

What about raising the capital gain tax and lower the corporate tax.

Eg. capital gain tax(15% today)-> Make it 28%.
Corporate tax (35% today)-> Make it 22%.
Just an example, but their are probobaly computer programs that can calculate this.

The conecept, higher capital gain tax to stop sepculations and rich people taking out huge dividends and lower corporate taxes to stimulate corporations to hire more people.
Then put a wealth tax on the rich that have build up large fortunes because of a low capital gain tax. A property tax on house/apartment nr.2,3 etc not nr.1(everybody should own a house)
The potential in USA is to take in more taxes from the rich, that dont contribute enough.

A low capital gain tax is just more welfare for the rich.
If the capital gain tax is raised and corporate tax lowered. Corporations are stimulated to hire and rich people will have to work more since taking out capital gain will be less attractive than working.

Since corporate tax<Capital gain tax.

I like that you are thinking.

I'm still curious as to how the Buffet Rule even comes remotely close to addressing our problem of government overspending.

It doesn't.

That will need a complete overhaul of the military industrial complex.

The military and making weapons,fighters, frigates etc. is something that USA does better than any country. If it is something that USA is really,really good at it is making and selling weapons and military equipment. The weapon industry gives billion $ export income every year. US shouldnt cut its nr.1 export weapons and military equipement. If the government put more money in military it would give more export income.

Weapons made in USA is quality as german cars.

 

[American Horse]

70 billion is a lot closer to our 1,000 Billion (also called a trillion lol) plus defecit each year than what the buffet rule would do but it still won't solve the problem.

There is no way.....without eliminating, cutting, and reducing government agencies and programs along with raising revenues....to balance the budget and then actually pay off the debt itself.

What's really going to happen is that Congress is going to end up spending ten times the amount of revenue collected by this tax. That's why they're pimping this.

Exactly right, and that's why (other than selling out the base) that the Republicans will do everything they can to prevent a tax increase. It will just fuel the spending, and destroy their chances with their base to be reelected. If they give into a tax increase they'll be tossed out and the Ds will have an open door to more spending.

 

[Rozman]

What a huge waste of time this was.
This was political theater.Everyone knew that this was going no where.

 

[starcraftzzz]

What tax rate would effectively do this? Go ahead and do the math...i expect you to admit what you find once you do........

The deficit is currently 1.4 trillion.
1) 10 cent Soda tax would bring in 130billion a year
What a one-cent soda tax buys - The Washington Post
2) A stock transaction tax of 2% would bring in 400billion a year
Ezra Klein - Research desk answers: How to raise $100 billion from a financial transactions tax
3) A marijuana tax similar to tobacco would reduce the deficit 60billion a year
Costs of Marijuana Prohibition: Economic Analysis
http://leap.cc/dia/miron-economic-report.pdf
4) A pollution tax on energy which would add the environment and health costs to energy consumption would increase revenue by over 500billion
Coal's hidden costs top $345 billion in U.S.: study | Reuters
Fuel taxes in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
5) Repealing the Bush tax cuts for the rich would bring in 80billion a year
6) Making it so rich Hedge funds, billionaires and capital gains taxes all payed rates equal to income taxes would increase revenue by 300billion a year.
Why Keep the Capital Gains Tax Break?
There no we have a suplus

Now that is not where you were going before...........you are now talking about new taxes that don't exist, new fees, and even making things that currently aren't legal, legal to make money.[/quote ] hell yea.

Before, responding to my comments about the "Buffet Rule" you said
"I see so according to you if we raise taxes enough to bring the deficit down to 0 it would actually not bring the deficit down. So basically you are clueless.
Furthermore there is no need to pay off debt all one needs is GDP growth that results in a shrinking GDP/debt ratio "

I asked to what percentage would you need to raise taxes to do this to which you provided the quoted response.....the response you had is fine, you actually have ideas/plans which I might not think are all good but respect you for having. However, you never did answer the question I challenged you with.

1) Would you consider it applicable to create more tax brackets? If so then add 6 new brackets each with a 6 percentage points more taxes, and move the current top bracket back to Clinton Era times. This would increase revenue by around 700billion a year
2) Index Capital gains taxes to be the same as income taxes would result in 100billion in more tax revenue per year
10 Reasons to Eliminate the Tax Break for Capital Gains - Blog of the Century
3) Index corporate taxes to be the same as income taxes (and eliminate taxes on small corporations) This would result in increased revenue of around 500billion a year
SOI Tax Stats - Tax Stats at a Glance

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

The deficit is currently 1.4 trillion.
1) 10 cent Soda tax would bring in 130billion a year
What a one-cent soda tax buys - The Washington Post
2) A stock transaction tax of 2% would bring in 400billion a year
Ezra Klein - Research desk answers: How to raise $100 billion from a financial transactions tax
3) A marijuana tax similar to tobacco would reduce the deficit 60billion a year
Costs of Marijuana Prohibition: Economic Analysis
http://leap.cc/dia/miron-economic-report.pdf
4) A pollution tax on energy which would add the environment and health costs to energy consumption would increase revenue by over 500billion
Coal's hidden costs top $345 billion in U.S.: study | Reuters
Fuel taxes in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
5) Repealing the Bush tax cuts for the rich would bring in 80billion a year
6) Making it so rich Hedge funds, billionaires and capital gains taxes all payed rates equal to income taxes would increase revenue by 300billion a year.
Why Keep the Capital Gains Tax Break?
There no we have a suplus

Now that is not where you were going before...........you are now talking about new taxes that don't exist, new fees, and even making things that currently aren't legal, legal to make money.[/quote ] hell yea.

Before, responding to my comments about the "Buffet Rule" you said
"I see so according to you if we raise taxes enough to bring the deficit down to 0 it would actually not bring the deficit down. So basically you are clueless.
Furthermore there is no need to pay off debt all one needs is GDP growth that results in a shrinking GDP/debt ratio "

I asked to what percentage would you need to raise taxes to do this to which you provided the quoted response.....the response you had is fine, you actually have ideas/plans which I might not think are all good but respect you for having. However, you never did answer the question I challenged you with.

1) Would you consider it applicable to create more tax brackets? If so then add 6 new brackets each with a 6 percentage points more taxes, and move the current top bracket back to Clinton Era times. This would increase revenue by around 700billion a year
2) Index Capital gains taxes to be the same as income taxes would result in 100billion in more tax revenue per year
10 Reasons to Eliminate the Tax Break for Capital Gains - Blog of the Century
3) Index corporate taxes to be the same as income taxes (and eliminate taxes on small corporations) This would result in increased revenue of around 500billion a year
SOI Tax Stats - Tax Stats at a Glance

Actually I would prefer to remove the tax brackets and exemptions to taxes and make it so everyone pays one tax rate but your first $30,000 or so of income is untaxable.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

What a huge waste of time this was.
This was political theater.Everyone knew that this was going no where.

Thats what bothered me about it. We have serious, pressing, and emminent problems with the debt and the president is just playing games with us about it.

Not that the reps are being much better but they aren't in charge of the executive branch or the senate so I'm more pissed at the people who have the reigns and are using them to lead us down some stupid, politics only, road in regards to the problem.

 

[starcraftzzz]

Actually I would prefer to remove the tax brackets and exemptions to taxes and make it so everyone pays one tax rate but your first $30,000 or so of income is untaxable.

I agree with part of that. We should remove exemptions/deductions etc etc; given that they complicate the tax system meaning. Simplifying the system would mean teh IRS needs less money, and people spend les time on taxes and accountants spend less money on filling out tax returns

 

[starcraftzzz]

What a huge waste of time this was.
This was political theater.Everyone knew that this was going no where.

Thats what bothered me about it. We have serious, pressing, and emminent problems with the debt and the president is just playing games with us about it.

Not that the reps are being much better but they aren't in charge of the executive branch or the senate so I'm more pissed at the people who have the reigns and are using them to lead us down some stupid, politics only, road in regards to the problem.

I love how you consider the debt a problem and then in the same sentence say that reducing the debt is just a game

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Actually I would prefer to remove the tax brackets and exemptions to taxes and make it so everyone pays one tax rate but your first $30,000 or so of income is untaxable.

I agree with part of that. We should remove exemptions/deductions etc etc; given that they complicate the tax system meaning. Simplifying the system would mean teh IRS needs less money, and people spend les time on taxes and accountants spend less money on filling out tax returns

I've read a lot of your posts and typically I don't line up with your opinions on things but on this post I totally agree.