How Can We Solve The Illegal Immigration Problem?

[Big Black Dog]

Three very simple words will end this problem with illegal aliens. LOCK AND LOAD.

 

[American Horse]

An honest desire to end the problem of illegal immigration means that changes must be made in the way Americans live and the way we deal with Mexico. It is entirely unrealistic to permit a third world nation to exist on our doorstep and then wonder why the people of that nation will go to any length to enter the US.

This simply points up the enormity of the problem, because it makes it seem that we need comprehensive immigration reform before doing the obvious; stop the influx at the border.

Here's a variation of the Bush plan: If the workforce of the same people who enforce job safety (OSHA) on employers was expanded, and then given the added responsibility to go to the job-sites, with the announced and certain purpose to not arrest the illegal immigrants but make them legal, that would allow us deal with it at the point of demand.

They would hand out registration documents that would, within a period limited of time, and with a deadline require them to provide personal information for the purpose of obtaining a tamper proof ID badge which they would be required to wear anytime they were at the place of employment. Eventually, any person not working at jobsites which were predominantly using properly credentialed employees would stand out like a sore thumb and would merit closer scrutiny, because the employer, not the employed would be breaking the law.

That employer should then be given a modest fine; something like $1,000, with a daily re-occurrence of maybe $250. It would be important to not make the fine too high, because that is an excuse to not enforce the law because of it being too burdensom. We need to just make the use of illegals operating outside the system more costly then any benefit to them to use that employee.

Taxes would be paid into a separate SS type account which would remain theirs, and they could take back home if the chose to go there and draw benefits with a reasonable accrual of interest. With their Work-ID they could apply for driver licenses with a "flag" on that license which would signify their status.

To become “naturalized citizens” they would have to go through all the same procedures as any other, and those procedures need to be bucked up, for instance requiring the learning of the English language.

Going back to first priorities; if we stop the flow at the border, then the chaos of crime could be stopped. More legal entry points could be added and people could go back and forth daily, and legally. We need to give those who aren't sufficiently interested in US citizenship a reason and the facility to return.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Count Dracula
Three very simple words will end this problem with illegal aliens. LOCK AND LOAD.

Here's another option, Anglo from Hell...

Get your white ass out of the US occupied Mexican territories while you still have it...

 

[syrenn]

syrenn wrote in part:

AND WHY do WE have to lower our standards of life to BRING UP MEXICO'S? Please explain that.

Illegal labor in the US adds an unknown but admittedly huge profit level to US business. Beyond that, it allows some US businesses, especially agriculture, to sell products at prices we would never see if the labor were legal and workplace safety laws were enforced.

RIGHT I know that. AND? I don't care if prices go up to give every illegal working under illegal purposes the boot. Are you saying you WANT to perpetuate the illegal problem, you want to perpetuate the underpaid illegal masses, because you don't want YOUR costs to go up? I am FOR making all of the farm workers LEGAL citizens and giving them federal minimum wage status. BUT they have to come here legally.

Beyond that, illegals who work under false papers (which is most) contribute a healthy $5 Billion per year to the Social Security Trust Fund for benefits they will never collect. If their contributions are halted, Americans will have to face TODAY the problems of overpromising entitlements that most pols and most Americans would rather be drug through a hedge backwards than admit.

I KNOW. And if they all of the illegals worked here legally it would be the same about of money. Ever think of the poor people whose ILLEGALLY used social security number goes though? That is all "income" that the poor ID theft victim must account for and clear up. EVERY illegal who is contributing to SS is a criminal engaging in FRAUD.

Good then we face up to OVER ENTITLEMENTS. (Great wording by the way). What is the problem?

Beyond that, Mexico needs foreign aid from the US and elsewhere. Although programs to redistribute its wealth and develop a decent tax base can take that nation far, they won't go far enough or fast enough. It is not in the best interests of the US to have its next door neighbor starve. I dunno what is so difficult to see about this.

Again why should we redistribute OUR wealth to deal with the immigration problem?

 

[Madeline]

syrenn, Americans have to eat. They will have to pay MUCH more for food if the illegals are barred from employment in US Big Agriculture. I think the impact could be reduced if the US quit paying price supports and giving tax discounts to the industry, but overall I think prices would rise. (I think the truth is no one really knows what would happened.) It's the price supports and tax discounts that IMO will affect taxpayers -- but not in a bad way.

I am in favor of the arrest and deportation of illegals. But if they are found at a workplace, I'm in favor of mandated prison terms for the employers -- along with tremendous, confiscatory fines. I'd deport the damned traitors if I could, but that is unconstitutional.

Mexico is a difficult but not insoluable problem and the very FIRST thing Americans need to do to halt illegal immigration is demand that laws against employment and other forms of profiteering on illegals be strictly enforced. Just know that if that actually happened, there would be a tremendous impact on our economy....the fate of the US is linked to the fate of Mexico, whether we like it or not.

 

[Madeline]

An honest desire to end the problem of illegal immigration means that changes must be made in the way Americans live and the way we deal with Mexico. It is entirely unrealistic to permit a third world nation to exist on our doorstep and then wonder why the people of that nation will go to any length to enter the US.

This simply points up the enormity of the problem, because it makes it seem that we need comprehensive immigration reform before doing the obvious; stop the influx at the border.

Here's a variation of the Bush plan: If the workforce of the same people who enforce job safety (OSHA) on employers was expanded, and then given the added responsibility to go to the job-sites, with the announced and certain purpose to not arrest the illegal immigrants but make them legal, that would allow us deal with it at the point of demand.

They would hand out registration documents that would, within a period limited of time, and with a deadline require them to provide personal information for the purpose of obtaining a tamper proof ID badge which they would be required to wear anytime they were at the place of employment. Eventually, any person not working at jobsites which were predominantly using properly credentialed employees would stand out like a sore thumb and would merit closer scrutiny, because the employer, not the employed would be breaking the law.

That employer should then be given a modest fine; something like $1,000, with a daily re-occurrence of maybe $250. It would be important to not make the fine too high, because that is an excuse to not enforce the law because of it being too burdensom. We need to just make the use of illegals operating outside the system more costly then any benefit to them to use that employee.

Taxes would be paid into a separate SS type account which would remain theirs, and they could take back home if the chose to go there and draw benefits with a reasonable accrual of interest. With their Work-ID they could apply for driver licenses with a "flag" on that license which would signify their status.

To become “naturalized citizens” they would have to go through all the same procedures as any other, and those procedures need to be bucked up, for instance requiring the learning of the English language.

Going back to first priorities; if we stop the flow at the border, then the chaos of crime could be stopped. More legal entry points could be added and people could go back and forth daily, and legally. We need to give those who aren't sufficiently interested in US citizenship a reason and the facility to return.

You have some great ideas, American Horse. But Amnesty for illegals is unrealistic; we cannot absorb 11 to 20 Million new citizens into our midst without bankrupting already stressed social service programs. That may yet happen anyway even though clearly it'd be disaster -- but ask yourself, if Amnesty passes, what deterrant would exist to dissuade any other Mexican from entering the US illegally?

I actually have sympathy for Americans living on the border, watching illegals cross their land and fearing them as any reasonable person would. I have compassion for everyone caught up in this debacle......but I want Mexicans to have a nation they are content to live in.

There doesn't seem to me to be any way around it -- Mexico has to be made habitable for Mexicans, or they will flee.

 

[tsalkonocii]

Three very simple words will end this problem with illegal aliens. LOCK AND LOAD.

Still using the old flintlocks? You really should upgrade to one of these

 

[tsalkonocii]

Originally posted by Count Dracula
Three very simple words will end this problem with illegal aliens. LOCK AND LOAD.

Here's another option, Anglo from Hell...

Get your white ass out of the US occupied Mexican territories while you still have it...

You lost every last one of those wars, remember?

 

[Madeline]

tsalkonocii, which do you think is more frightening? An American rancher or farmer waving a gun or a Mexican drug cartel with a rep for torture murders chasing your ass? Why is murder even an option when you attempt to address the underlying causes of illegal immigration? We cannot EVER frighten people enough to prevent illegal immigration -- they need to choose to remain because their home is safe and secure, and they can live decently there.

BTW, whatever second rate nation your people crawled away from is welcome to have YOU back. You're no more an "American" than Stalin was.

 

[tsalkonocii]

Who said anything about frightening anyone? I said shoot them, not fire a warning shot.

Why do you hate the idea of the USA as a sovereign nation?

We can't fix Mexico. Only the Mexicans can do that. Don't waste the time and money like we've been doing with the entirety of Africa. Until they decide to rise up and change things, nobody an help them. All we can do is defend our own nation against those who seek to destroy it in the name of a reconquista (stupid Mexicans wail about the evil White man yet think speaking the language of those who raped, murdered, and enslaved their ancestors is a sign of pride while spitting on the free nation they come crawling to is the 'in' thing to do) and a racist vision of 'recreating' a nation that never was. There is zero difference between the 100 Year Reich and Atzlan save the colour of the 'superior race' they seek to promote while eliminating all others.

 

[tsalkonocii]

BTW, whatever second rate nation your people crawled away from is welcome to have YOU back

Seeing as I haven't returned and have no intention of doing so

My family left those nations to come here for good reasons. I remember those reasons and seek to preserve and further improve the great nation to which they came for a better life. That's what a real American is. A real American remembers what America is and why people came here and why people continue to come here. A real American seeks to preserve this nation and ensure that it remains the greatest nation on Earth- and you can't do that if you stand against national sovereignty and seek to undermine it. You, as someone who despises our sovereignty and seeks to undermine it, are an enemy of this nation and a traitor.

 

[hortysir]

tsalkonocii, the minimum wage law and the social security law has always exempted farm and domestic laborers, as well as restaurant staff.

BTW, I find your murderous intentions towards illegals appalling. If your family were starving and terrified of criminals who murder and commit all forms of mayhem, I imagine you'd do anything possible to get them to safety. Too bad we didn't turn back YOUR folks when they sought to enter the US.

Care to back up that claim?



And why can't Mexican citizens seek safety inland of their own country, away from the border-trafficking areas?

 

[tsalkonocii]

At least where I come from, if a waiter/ress' wages + tips < less than minimum wage, the employer must pay the difference. They never take home less than minimum wage and the system works in their favour, as they can lie about their tips to increase their income.


So don't bother me with stupid sob stories about underpaid waitresses. They get paid no less than anyone else.

 

[LilOlLady]

Why do Mexicans leave their homes and come to the US? Because they have no opportunity for a decent life where they live. Crime is rampant. Corruption is rampant. Unbearable poverty is inescapable there. The US, as it always has, promises so much more that breaking the law to get here is worth it -- and for many, it has been a tradition.

No, we cannot absorb the illegals who are here now into our citizenry. We need to deport them....but no matter how vigourously we enforce our immigration laws or secure our borders, we will never end the problem unless we take steps to change Mexico into a habitable place where people are content to remain.

WE CAN NEVER CHANGE MEXICO UNTIL WE STOP THE INCENTIVES THAT BRING THEM HERE. JOBS. WHY WOULD MEXICO CHANGE WHEN WE DO THE JOBS FOR THEM AND THEY GET $35 BILLION SENT TO THEIR ECONOMY EACH YEAR?

The problem is not insoluable. Mexico has the highest GDP of any Latin American nation. What does the US need to do to entice Mexicans to return home and stay there?

DEPORTATION BY ATTRITION.

What would YOU want from your home? Safety. Opportunity. We need to legalize drugs and end the stranglehold of drug crime, and we need to require the Mexican government to adopt social policies that entice illegals to go home. These people need to see the chance of a better life in Mexico, not the US.

WHEN I HAVE A PROBLEM IN MY HOME, I DO NOT MOVE INTO SOMEONE ELSES HOME.

That means we'll be paying more for food, as stoop laborers must be paid the minimum wage. But I'd much rather do that than gun down Mexican teenagers and continue to support a Drug War with my taxes that has been a failure for decades.

THAT'S FEAR MONGERING. REPLACE ILLEGAL WITH LEGAL

An honest desire to end the problem of illegal immigration means that changes must be made in the way Americans live and the way we deal with Mexico. It is entirely unrealistic to permit a third world nation to exist on our doorstep and then wonder why the people of that nation will go to any length to enter the US.

MEXICO HAS CHANGED THEY WAY WE LIVE AND THEY KEEP COMING. AFRICA IS AT OUR DOOR STEPS?

We do not need illegal aliens.

 

[Madeline]

BTW, whatever second rate nation your people crawled away from is welcome to have YOU back

Seeing as I haven't returned and have no intention of doing so

My family left those nations to come here for good reasons. I remember those reasons and seek to preserve and further improve the great nation to which they came for a better life. That's what a real American is. A real American remembers what America is and why people came here and why people continue to come here. A real American seeks to preserve this nation and ensure that it remains the greatest nation on Earth- and you can't do that if you stand against national sovereignty and seek to undermine it. You, as someone who despises our sovereignty and seeks to undermine it, are an enemy of this nation and a traitor.

What a joke. So YOUR family's reasons for emigrating here are sufficient but no one's in Mexico are? I don't know which part of your post annoys me more. If you had any concern for the future of our country (as opposed to merely an interest in bullshitting around on a message board) you'd be willing to discuss what causes illegal immigration and how we can resolve it.

Step One: enforce existing immigration laws, including laws about deportation.

Step Two: secure the borders.

Step Three: find the US employers who knowingly or negligently hire illegal aliens, prosecute them, throw them in prison and confiscate their businesses.

Step Four: lean on Mexico to address the needs of its own poor. Repeal NAFTA. Give Calderon benchmarks to meet or else we invade and arrest him for crimes against the US (or whatever). Send in troops if needed to keep the peace. Send foreign aid, to build factories and help re-establish a middle class. Legalize drugs to remove the ginormous profits now commanded by the drug cartels.

 

[peter]

How Can We Solve The Illegal Immigration Problem?

The US should buy Mexico and divide it into 7 States. Then we'll have 57 States.

Why? We don't want so many poor people here. They'll flood us.

 

[Madeline]

LilOlLady wrote in part:

WE CAN NEVER CHANGE MEXICO UNTIL WE STOP THE INCENTIVES THAT BRING THEM HERE. JOBS. WHY WOULD MEXICO CHANGE WHEN WE DO THE JOBS FOR THEM AND THEY GET $35 BILLION SENT TO THEIR ECONOMY EACH YEAR?

One ginormous reason people leave Mexico for the US is fear of crime (or, in the case of criminals, richer victims). Are you seriously telling me we cannot have an impact on lawlessness? We've brought order to Somalia, to Bosnia, to Afghanistan (sort of). Why would Mexico pose some insoluable problem?

LilOlLady wrote in part:

AFRICA IS AT OUR DOOR STEPS?

Shame on you. Shame, shame, shame. Ignorance and xenophobia won't get us anywhere. I'm truly shocked at you, Ma'am.

 

[The T]

Track 'em down...deport them And that goes not only for Mexicans...but everyone else. They're here illegally...and they need to go back to where they came from until such time they can do it lawfully...the whole lot of them.

We are a nation of LAW not of men. High time we started acting like it.

 

[Madeline]

Agreed, The T. Then what?

 

[American Horse]

An honest desire to end the problem of illegal immigration means that changes must be made in the way Americans live and the way we deal with Mexico. It is entirely unrealistic to permit a third world nation to exist on our doorstep and then wonder why the people of that nation will go to any length to enter the US.

This simply points up the enormity of the problem, because it makes it seem that we need comprehensive immigration reform before doing the obvious; stop the influx at the border.

Here's a variation of the Bush plan: If the workforce of the same people who enforce job safety (OSHA) on employers was expanded, and then given the added responsibility to go to the job-sites, with the announced and certain purpose to not arrest the illegal immigrants but make them legal, that would allow us deal with it at the point of demand.

They would hand out registration documents that would, within a period limited of time, and with a deadline require them to provide personal information for the purpose of obtaining a tamper proof ID badge which they would be required to wear anytime they were at the place of employment. Eventually, any person not working at jobsites which were predominantly using properly credentialed employees would stand out like a sore thumb and would merit closer scrutiny, because the employer, not the employed would be breaking the law.

That employer should then be given a modest fine; something like $1,000, with a daily re-occurrence of maybe $250. It would be important to not make the fine too high, because that is an excuse to not enforce the law because of it being too burdensom. We need to just make the use of illegals operating outside the system more costly then any benefit to them to use that employee.

Taxes would be paid into a separate SS type account which would remain theirs, and they could take back home if the chose to go there and draw benefits with a reasonable accrual of interest. With their Work-ID they could apply for driver licenses with a "flag" on that license which would signify their status.

To become &#8220;naturalized citizens&#8221; they would have to go through all the same procedures as any other, and those procedures need to be bucked up, for instance requiring the learning of the English language.

Going back to first priorities; if we stop the flow at the border, then the chaos of crime could be stopped. More legal entry points could be added and people could go back and forth daily, and legally. We need to give those who aren't sufficiently interested in US citizenship a reason and the facility to return.

You have some great ideas, American Horse. But Amnesty for illegals is unrealistic; we cannot absorb 11 to 20 Million new citizens into our midst without bankrupting already stressed social service programs. That may yet happen anyway even though clearly it'd be disaster -- but ask yourself, if Amnesty passes, what deterrant would exist to dissuade any other Mexican from entering the US illegally?

I actually have sympathy for Americans living on the border, watching illegals cross their land and fearing them as any reasonable person would. I have compassion for everyone caught up in this debacle......but I want Mexicans to have a nation they are content to live in.

There doesn't seem to me to be any way around it -- Mexico has to be made habitable for Mexicans, or they will flee.

Please read again; I did not mention amnesty anywhere in my post. Consider what I said about how we could actually take them into account (account for them), formalize their presence, and discourage them from coming by limiting their access to jobs by finally dealing with them at the place of employment.

As I said, a reasonable fine for each incident of say $1,000 from the employer each time a violation occurs, making it low enough that it would actually be enforced, would drastically reduce the availability of jobs. Lots of times fines are made so large that no one goes out to enforce because the punishment would seem to be unreasonable. Many times when those very high fines (or punishments) actually are enforced in those rare occasions, anyone would have to conclude it is out of a disregard for equal justice.

I am pragmatic enough to understand that we are absolutely not going to send back any appreciable number of them, but if they couldn't work without their an ID card clipped to their shirt pocket or collar we would have a handle on it. And they would be out of the "shadows." A special SS account with funds collected from their own wages would be available to them either when they returned to Mexico, or upon retirement here if they became naturalized (further method of enforcement).

With the low cost of living in Mexico, they could live quite will on their savings. Lots of retired US citizens go there to live because they can stretch out their savings a lot longer there than they can at home.

Again....No Amnesty!