How are we really doing?

[Dawoud]

They dont want us there they dont apprecate us there.
The only thing america can hope for is to make a slave state out of Iraq.
You all talk about having "free elections" there
If elections were allowed there the overwhelming majority would vote for America, Hallaburton,and everything we represent to leave immeadiatly, dont doubt it it would happen. Thats why Bush can NEVER allow free elections.
So a question for you If that happened would you all honor the majority vote of the people of Iraq?

 

[MtnBiker]

Originally posted by Dawoud
They dont want us there they dont apprecate us there.

Poll suggests most in Baghdad don't want troops to leave too quickly
WILL LESTER, Associated Press Writer
Monday, October 13, 2003
©2003 Associated Press

URL: sfgate.com/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2003/10/13/national0129EDT0417.DTL


(10-13) 22:29 PDT WASHINGTON (AP) --

When Gallup set out recently to poll Baghdad residents, the biggest surprise may have been the public's reaction to the questioners: Almost everyone responded to the pollsters' questions, with some pleading for a chance to give their opinions.

"The interviews took more than an hour to do, people were extremely cooperative with open-ended questions," said Richard Burkholder, director of international polling for Gallup. "People went on and on."

But many of those Iraqis still have sharply mixed feelings about the U.S. military presence.

The Gallup poll found that 71 percent of the capital city's residents felt U.S. troops should not leave in the next few months. Just 26 percent felt the troops should leave that soon.

However, a sizable minority felt that circumstances could occur in which attacks against the troops could be justified. Almost one in five, 19 percent, said attacks could be justified, and an additional 17 percent said they could be in some situations.

These mixed feelings in Baghdad come at a time when many in the United States are urging that the troops be brought home soon.

Almost six in 10 in the poll, 58 percent, said that U.S. troops in Baghdad have behaved fairly well or very well, with one in 10 saying "very well." Twenty 20 percent said the troops have behaved fairly badly and 9 percent said very badly.

Gallup, one of the nation's best-known polling operations, hired more than 40 questioners, mostly Iraqi citizens directed by survey managers who have helped with other Gallup polling in Arab countries. Respondents were told the poll was being done for media both in Iraq and outside their country, but no mention was made that the American polling firm was running it.

To conduct the poll, Gallup did interviews face-to-face in people's homes chosen at random from all geographic sectors of the city, and more than nine in 10 agreed to participate, at least double the response rate for many U.S. telephone polls. Pollsters in the United States have an increasingly difficult time getting cooperation from people called on the phone.

"This is the way we did polling in the United States before telephone ownership got to the point that we could do reliable phone surveys," Burkholder said in an interview with The Associated Press. The poll of 1,178 adults was taken between Aug. 28 and Sept. 4 and had a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

Burkholder said Gallup plans to do further polling in Baghdad in coming months and hopes eventually to expand throughout Iraq. Gallup plans to release much of the data through its subscription service, the Gallup Poll Tuesday Briefing.

Gallup started its operation in Baghdad because it felt Baghdad would have the lowest security risks after the war, but that hasn't turned out to be the case, Burkholder said. Six in 10 Baghdad residents said that within the past four weeks they had been afraid at times to go outside their homes during the day.

 

[Dawoud]

Thu Oct 16, 2:24 PM ET Add Top Stories - washingtonpost.com
By Bradley Graham and Dana Milbank, Washington Post Staff Writers

A broad survey of U.S. troops in Iraq (news - web sites) by a Pentagon (news - web sites)-funded newspaper found that half of those questioned described their unit's morale as low and their training as insufficient, and said they do not plan to reenlist.

The survey, conducted by the Stars and Stripes newspaper, also recorded about a third of the respondents complaining that their mission lacks clear definition and characterizing the war in Iraq as of little or no value. Fully 40 percent said the jobs they were doing had little or nothing to do with their training.


The findings, drawn from 1,935 questionnaires presented to U.S. service members throughout Iraq, conflict with statements by military commanders and Bush administration officials that portray the deployed troops as high-spirited and generally well-prepared. Though not obtained through scientific methods, the survey results suggest that a combination of difficult conditions, complex missions and prolonged tours in Iraq is wearing down a significant portion of the U.S. force and threatening to provoke a sizable exodus from military service.


In the first of a week-long series of articles, Stars and Stripes said yesterday that it undertook the survey in August after receiving scores of letters from troops who were upset with one aspect or another of the Iraq operation. The newspaper, which receives some funding from the Defense Department but functions without editorial control by the Pentagon, prepared 17 questions and sent three teams of reporters to Iraq to conduct the survey and related interviews at nearly 50 camps.


"We conducted a 'convenience survey,' meaning we gave it to those who happened to be available at the time rather than to a randomly selected cross section, so the results cannot necessarily be projected as representing the whole population," said David Mazzarella, the paper's editorial director here. "But we still think the findings are significant and make clear that the troops have a different idea of things than what their leaders have been saying."


Experts in public opinion and the military concurred that the poll was not necessarily representative, but they characterized it as a useful gauge of troop sentiment. "The numbers are consistent with what I suspect is going on there," said David Segal, a military sociologist at the University of Maryland at College Park. "I am getting a sense that there is a high and increasing level of demoralization and a growing sense of being in something they don't understand and aren't sure the American people understand."


The paper quoted Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, commander of U.S. forces in Iraq, saying in a Sept. 9 interview for the series that "there is no morale problem." He said complaints among troops are "expected" and part of "the Army's normal posture," whether the soldiers are deployed or not.


"We haven't had time to study the survey, but we take all indicators of morale seriously," said Bryan Whitman, a senior Pentagon spokesman. "It's the reason we've instituted several programs to address morale and welfare issues." A White House spokesman had no comment.


Some military experts pointed to good news for the administration in the survey. Military historian Eliot Cohen, who serves on a Pentagon advisory panel, noted that the proportion that said the war was worthwhile -- 67 percent -- and the proportion of troops that said they have a clearly defined mission -- 64 percent -- are "amazingly high." He added that complaints are typical. "American troops have a God-given right and tradition of grumbling," he said.


In the survey, 34 percent described their morale as low, compared with 27 percent who described it as high and 37 percent who said it was average; 49 percent described their unit's morale as low, while 16 percent called it high.


In recent days, the Bush administration has launched a campaign to blame the news media for portraying the situation in Iraq in a negative light. Last week, Bush described the military spirit as high and said that life in Iraq is "a lot better than you probably think. Just ask people who have been there."


But Stars and Stripes raised questions about what those visiting dignitaries saw in Iraq. "Many soldiers -- including several officers -- allege that VIP visits from the Pentagon and Capitol Hill are only given hand-picked troops to meet with during their tours of Iraq," the newspaper said in its interview with Sanchez. "The phrase 'Dog and Pony Show' is usually used. Some troops even go so far as to say they've been ordered not to talk to VIPs because leaders are afraid of what they might say."


The newspaper also noted in that interview that its reporters were told that some soldiers who had complained of morale problems had faced disciplinary actions known as Article 15s, which can result in reprimand, extra duties and forfeiture of pay. Sanchez said he did not know of any such punishments, but he added that they would have been handled at a lower level.


The paper's project recorded significant differences in the morale of various units, but overall found that Army troops tended to sound more dissatisfied than Air Force personnel and Marines, and that reservists were the most troubled.


Uncertainty about when they are returning home was a major factor in dampening morale, according to the newspaper. The interviews were conducted at a time when some reserve and regular Army units were learning that their tours had been extended. The Pentagon has since sought to provide a clearer rotation plan and has begun granting troops two-week home leaves.


Although Pentagon officials say they have seen no sign yet of a rise in the number of troops deciding against reenlisting, the survey suggested that such a surge may be coming soon. A total of 49 percent of those questioned said it was "very unlikely" or "not likely" that they would remain in the military after they complete their current obligations. In the past, enlistment rates tended to drop after conflicts, but many defense experts and noncommissioned officers have warned of the potential for a historically high exodus, particularly of reservists.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Dawoud
They dont want us there they dont apprecate us there.
The only thing america can hope for is to make a slave state out of Iraq.
You all talk about having "free elections" there
If elections were allowed there the overwhelming majority would vote for America, Hallaburton,and everything we represent to leave immeadiatly, dont doubt it it would happen. Thats why Bush can NEVER allow free elections.
So a question for you If that happened would you all honor the majority vote of the people of Iraq?

Thats not entirely true. Do you have polls available to you that show that no on wants us there? I've read quite a few stories and interviews from Iraqi's that were very pleased with the US presence. In fact, one couple named their newborn child after Bush in thanks for their newly found freedom! Sure there are going to be people that don't want us there, but don't kid yourself into thinking thats what the entire nation desires.

Shoot, there are a lot of citizens in the US that I don't want here! LOL

Why the constant thrashing of Halliburton? Given their experience in Iraq, do you honestly think anyone else in the world was more qualified for the job? The money was going to be paid anyway, it might as well be to the firm that will do the best job that has intimate experience on what they are working on.

Do you have propaganda delivered to your doorstep daily?

 

[jimnyc]

Thanks, MtnBiker! Just as I thought!

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by Dawoud
They dont want us there they dont apprecate us there.
The only thing america can hope for is to make a slave state out of Iraq.
You all talk about having "free elections" there
If elections were allowed there the overwhelming majority would vote for America, Hallaburton,and everything we represent to leave immeadiatly, dont doubt it it would happen. Thats why Bush can NEVER allow free elections.
So a question for you If that happened would you all honor the majority vote of the people of Iraq?

I think mtnbiker's story has deflated your they-don't-want-us-there argument.

As far as free elections... when Iraq holds free elections and the Iraqi government is in place and capable of defending itself, there will be no need for US troops to be there, so we'll be leaving anyway. And it's not like the Iraqis will be voting on whether to keep us, they'll be voting on who their gov't officials should be.

 

[Dawoud]

<<<<<Do you have propaganda delivered to your doorstep daily?>>>

I do speak Arabic and I do Get Al Jezerra on satalite dish but i dont rely on that for my news.just to get a different prospective on whats happening in the world.Too bad you cant see what the rest of the world thinks
NPR
CNN
and local papers are where i get my propaganda.
I guess now that Rush is going to the slammer for drugs you will have to rely on FOX for your "Happy news"

 

[Dawoud]

Not Getting the Truth



BERLIN -- In 1967, following the ambush and mauling of an American unit in Vietnam, Gen. William Westmoreland awarded Purple Hearts to the wounded. One of them was Bud Barrow, a top sergeant with plenty of experience, who politely told the general that his outfit had "walked into one of the damnedest ambushes you ever seen." Westmoreland corrected him. "Oh, no, no, no, that was no ambush," the general told the man who had been there. Rank has its privileges -- and one of them is to turn black into white.



I cite this incident, taken from David Maraniss's magisterial and brilliant new book, "They Marched Into Sunlight," for a reason. It is not because I think that what is happening today in Iraq is necessarily what happened in Vietnam decades ago. It's because once again we have a government that baldly insists on telling us what we know is not true.

Take, for instance, Vice President Cheney's recent speech. In it, he repeated the now-discredited charge that the war in Iraq was "an essential step in the war on terror." He trotted out the old bugaboos of weapons of mass destruction and links to al Qaeda and, of course, reminded us that Saddam Hussein was a beast, a fact that not even critics of the war dispute. "They must concede . . . that had their own advice been followed, that regime would rule Iraq today," he said.

Hear, hear. But also, wait a minute. We now know -- as we did even before the war -- that Iraq's links to al Qaeda and therefore to the events of Sept. 11, 2001, were so tenuous as to be nearly nonexistent. The celebrated meeting between an Iraqi official and one of the Sept. 11 hijackers happened only in the minds of administration propagandists. There is no proof of it. In fact, the terrorist in question is now believed to have been somewhere else that day.

Weapons of mass destruction have not been found. It now seems possible that the much-abused United Nations inspectors did a credible job. Of course Hussein once had such weapons and used them, but sanctions and inspections -- not to mention the looming threat of war -- may actually have done the trick. If these weapons programs still existed, particularly the nuclear one, they did so in the most rudimentary form. This was no just-in-time program.

President Bush now says the American people "aren't getting the truth" about Iraq, and so he has taken his pitch to regional media outlets that are thought to be more compliant than the national newspapers and television networks. He forgets that many of the national outlets originally supported the war in Iraq -- my own Washington Post and yours truly come to mind. Now the president says that great and wonderful things are happening in Iraq but that the media are unaccountably fixated on the daily suicide bombings and the general chaos.

But there are plenty of reports about progress in Iraq -- the opening of schools, etc. Still, both the press and the American public are entitled to wonder whether these numbers add up to anything more than wishful thinking. Vietnam -- that awful analogy -- also produced its hopeful numbers, enemy body counts and the like, and while they were often wrong and sometimes just plain lies, even when they were true, they were largely beside the point. A school could be opened -- and the students still fight you at night.

More to the point is the administration's Westmorelandish insistence on asserting the insupportable -- that Saddam Hussein was a grave threat to the United States because he was linked to terrorism and armed to the teeth with those awful weapons. There is no truth to that -- none. And yet Bush continues to insist on it. Once, it was possible merely to argue the matter, as some of the Europeans did. Now, though, questions about facts have become questions of judgment -- and candor. How can we believe what Bush says about the reconstruction of Iraq when we no longer believe the rest of what he says?

I am ensconced here at the American Academy in Berlin. I came to see my country from abroad, to defend it and what it did in Iraq (to the extent that I can), but the task has become increasingly difficult. No one specifically mentions Vietnam -- that's my own point of reference -- but they wonder about an administration that has been ambushed by the facts in Iraq and insists it has been vindicated.

It's one thing to be an Ugly American. It's another to be a dumb one.

 

[Dawoud]

Attacks on US troops come almost daily
Over 70% of United States troops in Iraq questioned by a Pentagon-funded newspaper say their morale is low or average, a new survey has found.
The survey by the Stars and Stripes newspaper also said that 49% of those polled did not plan to re-enlist, while 31% said the war in Iraq was of little or no value for the US.

About a third of the respondents said that their mission was "not clearly" or "not at all" defined, according to the poll.

Correspondents say that the survey's findings conflict with statements by top US military commanders and politicians who say morale on the ground is generally high.

However, there is also good news in the survey for US commanders.

Some 67% of those questioned said the war in Iraq was worthwhile while 64% said their mission was clearly defined.

The experts also point out that enlistment rates traditionally drop after major combat operations.

'Convenience survey'

The Stars and Stripes survey - published in its Wednesday edition - is the first in a week-long series of articles on US troops morale in Iraq.

SURVEY'S FINDINGS
34% of troops say their morale is low or very low
37% say morale is average
27% say morale is high
49% unlikely to re-enlist
67% say the war is worthwhile
64% say their mission is clearly defined
1,935 US troops polled

The newspaper said it decided to conduct the poll after receiving scores of letters from US soldiers who were upset with some aspects of their deployment in Iraq.

The survey was based on a list of 17 questions the newspaper presented to 1,935 US soldiers in 50 military camps over a three-week period in August.

The paper admitted that the findings had not been obtained through classic polling methods, and that "the results cannot be projected onto the entire military population in Iraq".

"We conducted a 'convenience survey', meaning we gave it to those who happened to be available at the time rather than to a randomly selected cross section," said David Mazzarella, the newspaper's editorial director.

The Stars and Stripes began as a military newspaper during the US Civil War in the 1860s.

It is partly funded by the US Defence Department but the Pentagon does not have editorial control over the content.

 

[oski]

You've copied Richard Cohen's entire editorial and signed your name to it. Are you any relation to "Quotin' Joe" Biden?

Just curious.

 

[Dawoud]

I didnt meen to not give mr choen his due
i only wish i could write as well as him from now on when i post someone elses stuff i will be sure and credit them

 

[jimnyc]

You've copied Richard Cohen's entire editorial and signed your name to it. Are you any relation to "Quotin' Joe" Biden?

Just curious.

Thanks for pointing that out, somehow I knew this wasn't written by Dawoud.

It's one thing to be an Ugly American. It's another to be a dumb one.

I was going to point out to you that Muslims are the ugliest creatures on the face of the earth and have he intellectual capacity of an empty Pepsi can, but that was before I realized your article was plagiarized.

What is your point of attacking the US military? What are the current casualty statistics in Iraq? Since you are so big on the morale and suicide, I'll even account for them in the final tally!

Dead Iraqi's - 9,181
USA - 332

I'd hate to see the Americans with a 'high' morale!

Aren't you tired yet of having your propaganda proved to be inane at every turn?

 

[Dawoud]

Originally posted by jimnyc
[
<<<<I was going to point out to you that Muslims are the ugliest creatures on the face of the earth and have he intellectual capacity of an empty Pepsi can, but that was before I realized your article was plagiarized.>>>>


Yeah right Pumpkin Some of the most beautiful women on this planet are arab women I know im married to one of them
Im sure with your muslimphobic view of the world you will never get to know any of them

and as far as intellectual capaicity.
Ive worked for the largest university in the USA for over 10 years and my wife teaches Physics there......DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT THAT IS?

What is your point of attacking the US military?
Im not attacking the Military Im attacking the stupid War those fools in washington have got us into, and you know what? its my right to do that or have you forgotten that.
everything i have posted was taken from AMERICAN sources





What are the current casualty statistics in Iraq? Since you are so big on the morale and suicide, I'll even account for them in the final tally!

Dead Iraqi's - 9,181 YEAH IS THAT YOU IDEA OF FREEING THEM?


USA - 332 NOT COUNTING THE BLIND THE LAME AND THE WOUNDED FOR LIFE IS IT?


I'd hate to see the Americans with a 'high' morale!

"HIGH" MORALE...SAY YOU MUST HAVE THE SAME CONNECTION AS RUSH LIMBAUGH

So come back with somemore personal attacks. they dont affect my opinion of this stupid war or of the people like you who worship the Gods of war

 

[jimnyc]

Yeah right Pumpkin Some of the most beautiful women on this planet are arab women I know im married to one of them

One out of a million, the odds are in your favor!

Ive worked for the largest university in the USA for over 10 years and my wife teaches Physics there......DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT THAT IS?

I could care less what your wife does, she isn't typing the crap that you are! What do you do? I can guarantee it's nothing that requires proper spelling.

Im not attacking the Military Im attacking the stupid War those fools in washington have got us into, and you know what? its my right to do that or have you forgotten that.

Yes, it is your right to post inane ramblings, only to be corrected 5 minutes later.

Dead Iraqi's - 9,181 YEAH IS THAT YOU IDEA OF FREEING THEM?

Thats what happens to the pathetic over there that think they can oppose the strongest military in the world with their fanaticism.

"HIGH" MORALE...SAY YOU MUST HAVE THE SAME CONNECTION AS RUSH LIMBAUGH

Why, does Rush hope these muslim scumbags all die as much as I do?

So come back with somemore personal attacks. they dont affect my opinion of this stupid war or of the people like you who worship the Gods of war

You come here with "It's one thing to be an Ugly American. It's another to be a dumb one." and then have the audacity to complain when someone attacks back? You couldn't even insult with your own words, you had to steal someone else's work and try and pawn it off as your own!

 

[Dawoud]

UK Protesters Aim to Humiliate Bush Like Saddam



By Andrew Cawthorne

LONDON (Reuters) - Anti-war protesters plan to topple and dance on a mock statue of President Bush (news - web sites) in the center of London as part of demonstrations to "blight" his visit to Britain next month.



Their re-working in Trafalgar Square of the famous humiliation of a Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) statue in Baghdad six months' ago will be among running protests including marches and a mock trial of Bush planned around his November 19-21 state visit.


"People are excited about the prospect of opposing George Bush because they feel this visit adds insult to the injury already caused by the Iraq (news - web sites) war," said Lindsey German, of Stop the War Coalition, one of various groups planning the events.


"Wherever he is, from the moment he arrives to the moment he goes, there will be protests of one sort or another," she added at a news conference on Thursday.


Bush is coming to Britain at the invitation of Queen Elizabeth and will spend time with his close ally Prime Minister Tony Blair (news - web sites) reviewing the problems in postwar Iraq.


Both men have paid heavy political prices for going to war without a United Nations (news - web sites)' mandate and then failing to find weapons of mass destruction. Their domestic popularity has fallen, relations with some international allies have cooled, and their names are reviled by anti-war protesters round the world.


The British groups, who brought a million protesters onto the streets of London before the war in February, said at Thursday's news conference they expected hundreds of thousands to participate in Bush protests around the nation.


Some demonstrators were planning to come from the United States and Europe, they added.


A petition has been launched to ask the British government to cancel his visit, and, assuming that will not be heeded, a mock state procession will be staged and a "Goodbye George" concert held the day he leaves.


"This will be a November to remember. I think it will be a bonfire of the vanities of Bush and Blair," said legislator George Galloway, whose radical anti-war rhetoric has seen him suspended from Blair's ruling Labour Party.


Galloway said he hoped images of protests in Britain would help turn the political tide against Bush in the run-up to the 2004 U.S. presidential election.


"Whilst we bear them (Americans) absolutely no ill will, indeed the opposite, we hate their president and think he is one of the world's most dangerous men," Galloway said. "They should take the opportunity they have next November to do the world a favor, as well as themselves, and get rid of him."


At their meeting to announce plans "to blight the U.S. president's visit to Britain," the protest organizers mocked Blair's advisers, whom they said "needed their heads looking at" for accepting a Bush visit at such a politically delicate time for their boss.


With the exception of a blip in 2000 over fuel price protests, Blair's popularity is at his lowest since he came to power in 1997. Critics mock him as Bush's "poodle."


"People can't believe the stupidity of inviting Bush to Britain," said Liz Hutchins, of the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament.

 

[Dawoud]

Study of Iraq Bill Reveals Overcharging
Thu Oct 16, 6:56 PM ET

By LARRY MARGASAK, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - The Bush administration's Iraq (news - web sites) reconstruction plan appears to overcharge taxpayers some $200 million for the purchase and importation of petroleum products, according to a congressional report obtained Thursday.



The legislation seeks $900.6 million for specified amounts of liquefied petroleum gas (propane), gasoline, kerosene and diesel fuel during the fiscal year that began Oct. 1. The products could be bought and delivered for $704 million, the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service reported.


"If the request is only for commodity fuel purchase at spot market prices, it would seem that the CPA (Coalition Provisional Authority) is asking for substantially more money than is called for by current fuel prices in the Persian Gulf trading area," the CRS said in the report obtained by The Associated Press.


The report, prepared for the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee, said the amount of the apparent overcharge could jump from $197 million to $249 million if another country donates fuel to Iraq.


Houston-based Halliburton is the government's sole contractor working in Iraq to restore the country's petroleum industry and to import petroleum products while the system is being repaired.


However, the Army Corps of Engineers, which manages the contract, said the purchases contained in the legislation would be made under competitively bid replacement contracts.


The actual cost of the imported products will depend on future negotiations, the Corps told Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., in response to the senator's request for information.


"Approval of the funding requested in the supplemental request will allow us to enter into longer term contracts for the imported fuels, which will save a lot of money," the Corps said. "We have been told that suppliers are saying that if we were to commit to purchase fuel for 120 days versus the present 30 day terms, we could literally 'buy 3 and get 1' free — a 25 percent reduction in costs."


Wyden said he would attempt to reduce the $900 million request to about $700 million to match the estimated costs.

 

[jimnyc]

.

 

[janeeng]

C'mon, haven't we gotten sick over this pic before? that's NASTY!

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by janeeng
C'mon, haven't we gotten sick over this pic before? that's NASTY!

They say "A picture is worth a thousand words"

If I looked like that I would strap a bomb on and kill myself too!

Just nasty! Not one redeeming quality about a stinking muslim.

 

[Dawoud]

Yep well im sure your younger faster and a better speller than i am and this is gonna be my last reply to you.
I have no desire to get in a pissing contest with you.

Im just gonna remember the words of my long dead grandmother.
She said " Dont get in a mud throwing contest with a pig....You will get covered in mud...and the pig will enjoy it"

BUT im still gonna keep posting articles written about the war in IRAQ...written and published in major papers
If you have a problem with them.......Tough