How about a simple solution?

[Humanity]

Let's try this. What if "Palestine" declared independence as a free, peaceful, and non-violent state within all of Gaza and every part of the West bank that is under their control right now.

This would give them an immediate bargaining chip with everyone to negotiate the freezing of any settlements, removal of any walls and perhaps some of the newer settlements, and/or cancellation of the building of any that are planned.

How's that? Or do you think that Israel would line up on these borders and attack?

So, in response to Teddy's request for me to reply to this thread....

A simple solution? Yes...

But let's be honest its a little too simple... It's a good start though!

I have NO problem with Palestine being created as you suggest. However, there would need to be additional agreements in place, not as a "bargaining chip" but signed agreements for this to work.

I'm not saying that there would need to be an immediate action over the agreements but they would need to be in place first, not negotiated later.

The most prominent one, as per your post, settlements... There needs to be an agreement in place that the settlers will leave all occupied territory, West Bank and East Jerusalem over an agreed timeframe.

There also needs to be an agreement that international boundaries will be confirmed and 'written in stone'.

So yes, a simple solution Teddy, with prior agreements in place.

No problem.

 

[teddyearp]

Well, OK then. Pretty much complicates the simple solution and brings us right to where we are now. No solution. No peace.

 

[Humanity]

Well, OK then. Pretty much complicates the simple solution and brings us right to where we are now. No solution. No peace.

It was never going to be a "simple solution" though was it, not in reality.

Your "simple solution" is to leave the occupying force in place.

My "simple solution" is for the occupying force to leave.

The rest of the "simple solution" is agreed...

 

[Hossfly]

Should they give up their claim to the Lands that were taken by force and threats of terrorism ?
Would you negotiate with a thief over the return of half of what he took?

The Palestinians did offer to give Israel 78% of Palestine.

Israel refused the offer and has yet to agree to that concession.

You forget, Tinmore, that the Hashemites were given control of 78% of the Palestine Mandate which is now called the country of Jordan. The remaining 22% was to be divided equally between the Jews and the Arabs. The Jews accepted, and the Arabs turned it down. I think Tinmore believes there are large parcels of ancestral land awaiting him so he keeps on posting the same old things..

 

[P F Tinmore]

Should they give up their claim to the Lands that were taken by force and threats of terrorism ?
Would you negotiate with a thief over the return of half of what he took?

The Palestinians did offer to give Israel 78% of Palestine.

Israel refused the offer and has yet to agree to that concession.

You forget, Tinmore, that the Hashemites were given control of 78% of the Palestine Mandate which is now called the country of Jordan. The remaining 22% was to be divided equally between the Jews and the Arabs. The Jews accepted, and the Arabs turned it down. I think Tinmore believes there are large parcels of ancestral land awaiting him so he keeps on posting the same old things..

The remaining 22% of what?

 

[Phoenall]

Should they give up their claim to the Lands that were taken by force and threats of terrorism ?
Would you negotiate with a thief over the return of half of what he took?

The Palestinians did offer to give Israel 78% of Palestine.

Israel refused the offer and has yet to agree to that concession.

LINK ?

 

[aris2chat]

I think many people seem to have missed the fact that recognition of a palestinian state is not absolute but conditioned on a negotiated settlement.
Everyone would like the palestinians to have a state and stop the violence against Israel, the problem is the negotiated settlement. Nations that would like to recognize a palestine want to get Abbas back to the table and for hamas to be disarmed. Taking hamas off the terror list is a gesture to help them to take that step. If Hamas and Abbas don't or won't talk turkey with Israel they can be put back on the terror list just as quickly.
The EU is trying to open the door for them. Will they enter with an olive leaf or an AK47?

If the PA declare a state on land they now control that will be the end to Israel leaving the rest of the WB in any way. Palestine will be a group of inland islands that will need visas and authorized ID to travel from one area to the other by passing through Israel.

If they talk they will likely get a solid piece of land with some sort of land trade leaving Jerusalem with Israel open to tourists and Israeli muslims and limited access from non-Israeli muslims on Fridays and holy days. Muslims in the WB and G would have to attend their own mosques and apply for visas to visit the mount a few times a year. Israel would control how many foreigners can visit at any one time to prevent any hostile action against Israel.

Jerusalem is not part of the required pilgrimage my muslims. They might wish to visit but they are not required to do so my Islam.

If palestine take unilateral action they will be surrounded by forces that could crush them on at a time if they fire on Israel. No hiding behind "international resolutions". They will be a state of islands in a sea of Israel waging war and can be cut off trapped in a jail of their own making.

If palestinians want a real state they will have to come with the intent of being flexible and truly willing to work with the Jewish Israeli state as a permanent fact, and cooperative neighbor.

If they squander their chance the rest of the world might not be will to truly recognize them ever again. They can come hat in hand or sword in hand, but they will get more with only the hat and a will to do the realistic best for their people.

Time for dreaming to end and to wake to a new year and a new outlook.

 

[Phoenall]

Should they give up their claim to the Lands that were taken by force and threats of terrorism ?
Would you negotiate with a thief over the return of half of what he took?

The Palestinians did offer to give Israel 78% of Palestine.

Israel refused the offer and has yet to agree to that concession.

You forget, Tinmore, that the Hashemites were given control of 78% of the Palestine Mandate which is now called the country of Jordan. The remaining 22% was to be divided equally between the Jews and the Arabs. The Jews accepted, and the Arabs turned it down. I think Tinmore believes there are large parcels of ancestral land awaiting him so he keeps on posting the same old things..

The remaining 22% of what?

The ORIGINAL MANDATE OF PALESTINE that was destined by International treaty to be the4 RESURECTED NATIONAL HOME OF THE JAEWS

 

[Phoenall]

I think many people seem to have missed the fact that recognition of a palestinian state is not absolute but conditioned on a negotiated settlement.
Everyone would like the palestinians to have a state and stop the violence against Israel, the problem is the negotiated settlement. Nations that would like to recognize a palestine want to get Abbas back to the table and for hamas to be disarmed. Taking hamas off the terror list is a gesture to help them to take that step. If Hamas and Abbas don't or won't talk turkey with Israel they can be put back on the terror list just as quickly.
The EU is trying to open the door for them. Will they enter with an olive leaf or an AK47?

If the PA declare a state on land they now control that will be the end to Israel leaving the rest of the WB in any way. Palestine will be a group of inland islands that will need visas and authorized ID to travel from one area to the other by passing through Israel.

If they talk they will likely get a solid piece of land with some sort of land trade leaving Jerusalem with Israel open to tourists and Israeli muslims and limited access from non-Israeli muslims on Fridays and holy days. Muslims in the WB and G would have to attend their own mosques and apply for visas to visit the mount a few times a year. Israel would control how many foreigners can visit at any one time to prevent any hostile action against Israel.

Jerusalem is not part of the required pilgrimage my muslims. They might wish to visit but they are not required to do so my Islam.

If palestine take unilateral action they will be surrounded by forces that could crush them on at a time if they fire on Israel. No hiding behind "international resolutions". They will be a state of islands in a sea of Israel waging war and can be cut off trapped in a jail of their own making.

If palestinians want a real state they will have to come with the intent of being flexible and truly willing to work with the Jewish Israeli state as a permanent fact, and cooperative neighbor.

If they squander their chance the rest of the world might not be will to truly recognize them ever again. They can come hat in hand or sword in hand, but they will get more with only the hat and a will to do the realistic best for their people.

Time for dreaming to end and to wake to a new year and a new outlook.

As always a well thought out solution to a timeless problem, many thanks for taking the time to try and enlighten those of a lesser intelect

 

[aris2chat]

Seems gaza like rockets more than talking.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Seems gaza like rockets more than talking.

Speaking of talking, how are the negotiations on the terms of the current ceasefire going?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Should they give up their claim to the Lands that were taken by force and threats of terrorism ?
Would you negotiate with a thief over the return of half of what he took?

The Palestinians did offer to give Israel 78% of Palestine.

Israel refused the offer and has yet to agree to that concession.

You forget, Tinmore, that the Hashemites were given control of 78% of the Palestine Mandate which is now called the country of Jordan. The remaining 22% was to be divided equally between the Jews and the Arabs. The Jews accepted, and the Arabs turned it down. I think Tinmore believes there are large parcels of ancestral land awaiting him so he keeps on posting the same old things..

The remaining 22% of what?

The ORIGINAL MANDATE OF PALESTINE that was destined by International treaty to be the4 RESURECTED NATIONAL HOME OF THE JAEWS

Mandate of what again?

 

[P F Tinmore]

I think many people seem to have missed the fact that recognition of a palestinian state is not absolute but conditioned on a negotiated settlement.
Everyone would like the palestinians to have a state and stop the violence against Israel, the problem is the negotiated settlement. Nations that would like to recognize a palestine want to get Abbas back to the table and for hamas to be disarmed. Taking hamas off the terror list is a gesture to help them to take that step. If Hamas and Abbas don't or won't talk turkey with Israel they can be put back on the terror list just as quickly.
The EU is trying to open the door for them. Will they enter with an olive leaf or an AK47?

If the PA declare a state on land they now control that will be the end to Israel leaving the rest of the WB in any way. Palestine will be a group of inland islands that will need visas and authorized ID to travel from one area to the other by passing through Israel.

If they talk they will likely get a solid piece of land with some sort of land trade leaving Jerusalem with Israel open to tourists and Israeli muslims and limited access from non-Israeli muslims on Fridays and holy days. Muslims in the WB and G would have to attend their own mosques and apply for visas to visit the mount a few times a year. Israel would control how many foreigners can visit at any one time to prevent any hostile action against Israel.

Jerusalem is not part of the required pilgrimage my muslims. They might wish to visit but they are not required to do so my Islam.

If palestine take unilateral action they will be surrounded by forces that could crush them on at a time if they fire on Israel. No hiding behind "international resolutions". They will be a state of islands in a sea of Israel waging war and can be cut off trapped in a jail of their own making.

If palestinians want a real state they will have to come with the intent of being flexible and truly willing to work with the Jewish Israeli state as a permanent fact, and cooperative neighbor.

If they squander their chance the rest of the world might not be will to truly recognize them ever again. They can come hat in hand or sword in hand, but they will get more with only the hat and a will to do the realistic best for their people.

Time for dreaming to end and to wake to a new year and a new outlook.

I think many people seem to have missed the fact that recognition of a palestinian state is not absolute but conditioned on a negotiated settlement.​

By what law?

 

[Humanity]

I think many people seem to have missed the fact that recognition of a palestinian state is not absolute but conditioned on a negotiated settlement.
Everyone would like the palestinians to have a state and stop the violence against Israel, the problem is the negotiated settlement. Nations that would like to recognize a palestine want to get Abbas back to the table and for hamas to be disarmed. Taking hamas off the terror list is a gesture to help them to take that step. If Hamas and Abbas don't or won't talk turkey with Israel they can be put back on the terror list just as quickly.
The EU is trying to open the door for them. Will they enter with an olive leaf or an AK47?

If the PA declare a state on land they now control that will be the end to Israel leaving the rest of the WB in any way. Palestine will be a group of inland islands that will need visas and authorized ID to travel from one area to the other by passing through Israel.

If they talk they will likely get a solid piece of land with some sort of land trade leaving Jerusalem with Israel open to tourists and Israeli muslims and limited access from non-Israeli muslims on Fridays and holy days. Muslims in the WB and G would have to attend their own mosques and apply for visas to visit the mount a few times a year. Israel would control how many foreigners can visit at any one time to prevent any hostile action against Israel.

Jerusalem is not part of the required pilgrimage my muslims. They might wish to visit but they are not required to do so my Islam.

If palestine take unilateral action they will be surrounded by forces that could crush them on at a time if they fire on Israel. No hiding behind "international resolutions". They will be a state of islands in a sea of Israel waging war and can be cut off trapped in a jail of their own making.

If palestinians want a real state they will have to come with the intent of being flexible and truly willing to work with the Jewish Israeli state as a permanent fact, and cooperative neighbor.

If they squander their chance the rest of the world might not be will to truly recognize them ever again. They can come hat in hand or sword in hand, but they will get more with only the hat and a will to do the realistic best for their people.

Time for dreaming to end and to wake to a new year and a new outlook.

As always a well thought out solution to a timeless problem, many thanks for taking the time to try and enlighten those of a lesser intelect

Glad you found it enlightening Phoney

 

[aris2chat]

No chance of Qatar giving Gaza the '22 World Cup if there is no peace with Israel.
I doubt the temptation will move Hamas enough toward an agreement with Israel.
Nice idea but just no reasonable.

 

[Humanity]

No chance of Qatar giving Gaza the '22 World Cup if there is no peace with Israel.
I doubt the temptation will move Hamas enough toward an agreement with Israel.
Nice idea but just no reasonable.

No I guess not...

 

[fanger]

The ORIGINAL MANDATE OF PALESTINE that was destined by International treaty to be the4 RESURECTED NATIONAL HOME OF THE JAEWS

JAEWS?

 

[aris2chat]

The ORIGINAL MANDATE OF PALESTINE that was destined by International treaty to be the4 RESURECTED NATIONAL HOME OF THE JAEWS

JAEWS?

your new blood libel?

 

[fanger]

Drug induced Typo by phony?

 

[Hossfly]

Should they give up their claim to the Lands that were taken by force and threats of terrorism ?
Would you negotiate with a thief over the return of half of what he took?

The Palestinians did offer to give Israel 78% of Palestine.

Israel refused the offer and has yet to agree to that concession.

You forget, Tinmore, that the Hashemites were given control of 78% of the Palestine Mandate which is now called the country of Jordan. The remaining 22% was to be divided equally between the Jews and the Arabs. The Jews accepted, and the Arabs turned it down. I think Tinmore believes there are large parcels of ancestral land awaiting him so he keeps on posting the same old things..

The remaining 22% of what?

The ORIGINAL MANDATE OF PALESTINE that was destined by International treaty to be the4 RESURECTED NATIONAL HOME OF THE JAEWS

Mandate of what again?

Try to keep up with the thread, Tinmore, and stop acting like a coy little high school sophmore girl in heat.