Heaven and Hell are Impossible

[Youwerecreated]

I'm convinced.

I will now start my new life as an Atheist.

My first act will be to start a thread intent on ridiculing everyone that doesn't agree with me.

Maybe Campbellll can teach me the secret handshake and mail me my new ID card (I promise to use it to vote Democrat)

People can believe as they wish Christ say's they will but i believe in setting the record straight. I have thouroughly studied the bible over 40 years.

I believe many christian doctrines cause contradiction with God's word.

We are 100% dead when we die. Nothing lives on. Many Christians make the mistake and take a scriptures out of context to mean something it doesn't by thinking we live on at death we go to heaven or hell. If this was accurate there would be no need for the resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous and judgment.


Act 24:15 And I have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. The second death has no authority over these, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him a thousand years.

The ones raised in the first resurrection death because judgement and the second death have no hold these ones. They are the 144,000 saints that will rule with Christ. He is not gonna make us all kings and priests.

Rev 1:6 and made us kings and priests to God and His Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.


Rev 5:10 And You made us kings and priests to our God, and we will reign over the earth.

The resurrection happens in the end times. The only ones who are ressurected 3 days like Christ are the small crowd numbered at 144,000. These are the saints that will rule with christ.

Rev 7:3 saying, Do not hurt the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousands, having been sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel.


The 144,000 are the first resurrection which happens unseen to man. The second resurrection are the righteous and unrighteous.

This is the second resurrection.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, the small and the great, stand before God. And books were opened, and another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead in it. And death and hell delivered up the dead in them. And each one of them was judged according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death.

The just and unjust will be resurrected at the same time the just rersurrected to life and the unjust to eternal death in the lake of fire which is the second death.

Rev 2:11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. The second death has no authority over these, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him a thousand years.

What is the second death ?

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and the unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, will have their part in the Lake burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

 

[Truthmatters]

Its your belief and not fact

 

[Youwerecreated]

Some say love is a myth

Romantic Love is a very recent concept

Tell that to king david.

 

[geauxtohell]

Heaven, Hell, the immortal soul, all these are supposed to be eternal.

Eternity is outside time.

But all action and all change occurs within time; outside time, neither action nor change has any conceptual meaning.

Heaven is supposed to be bliss. Hell is supposed to be suffering.

Bliss and suffering are both actions or changes. Both, therefore, require time. But Heaven and Hell are conceived as eternal, outside time.

Heaven and Hell, as usually conceived, are impossible.

Holy cow. You solved the eternal question in 10 small sentences.

I guess we can close the book on that one.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Its your belief and not fact

Show me from the scriptures otherwise.

 

[Truthmatters]

It is your belief and to you it is accepted as fact.

To the rest of the world it is merely myth.

You insult other peoples beliefs by pretending we have to accept it as fact.

It is not based on anything that can prove it as fact.

That is why they call it a faith.

 

[hortysir]

Its your belief and not fact

Same backatchya

 

[BluePhantom]

It seems to me Dragon that you are attempting to discredit the concepts of heaven and hell according to human terms. In theory (since that's what any religion is) those terms would not apply. I would agree that the common perception of the afterlife by people today is almost certainly not how it works and as such their perceptions are by definition "wrong." I don't mean to say that there is no afterlife...no one knows that except those who are there and they aint saying. But if your intent is to show that there is no afterlife I am afraid you will need more than the argument you have provided. If your intent is to demonstrate that the afterlife is probably not what we envision in popular culture, I would tend to strongly agree with you since those concepts are also defined by human experience which, again in theory, the afterlife transcends.

BTW....just before I posted this two ladies knocked on my door to "share a word from the Bible" with me. Creepy!

 

[Youwerecreated]

It is your belief and to you it is accepted as fact.

To the rest of the world it is merely myth.

You insult other peoples beliefs by pretending we have to accept it as fact.

It is not based on anything that can prove it as fact.

That is why they call it a faith.

Gods word is truth .So There is only one truth if your doctrine causes contradiction with the word i would say that is a faulty doctrine. ,What say you ?

 

[Liability]

Time is reltive.


42 expressed in base 13.

So is spelling, apparently, Dr. Einstein.

Or is it Dr. Adams?

 

[BluePhantom]

I would also add, Dragon, that there are things in this physical world that we know to be true and can observe but they do not fit within our human experience. Thomas Young's double-slit experiment is a pretty good example of that. If there are things in this world that transcend our human experience that we can see happening, how can one possibly suggest that there cannot be things beyond this world that do the same?

 

[Tank]

Some say love is a myth

Romantic Love is a very recent concept

Can you prove love exists?

 

[Dragon]

It seems to me Dragon that you are attempting to discredit the concepts of heaven and hell according to human terms. In theory (since that's what any religion is) those terms would not apply. I would agree that the common perception of the afterlife by people today is almost certainly not how it works and as such their perceptions are by definition "wrong." I don't mean to say that there is no afterlife...no one knows that except those who are there and they aint saying. But if your intent is to show that there is no afterlife I am afraid you will need more than the argument you have provided.

No, that isn't my intent, and I agree it's fundamentally impossible to show either that the afterlife does or doesn't exist. I am referring specifically to the traditional Christian conceptions of an immortal soul that goes after death either to a blissful paradise or to a hell of suffering and remains there "for eternity."

My point is that even if there is some vehicle of consciousness that survives death, it could not do so "for eternity." All experience involves change, and anything that changes is inevitably mortal -- a change can render it nonexistent. So either the soul remains mortal, or else it does not experience anything and so ceases to exist for all practical purposes. (Or, of course, there is no soul.)

BTW....just before I posted this two ladies knocked on my door to "share a word from the Bible" with me. Creepy!

Heh -- synchronicity can be weird.

 

[Liability]

Existence, itself, is impossible since everything had to have come out of (from) the time before time and the space before space.

But, but, but ...

Nothing can exist prior to itself.

So nothing exists.

 

[geauxtohell]

Once you introduce the possibility of a all-powerful, supernatural entity into a belief system, all logical parameters fall by the wayside.

It's the reason we keep religion out of science.

And it's a two way street.

 

[daveman]

Another example of a poor understanding of the scriptures.

Another example of a failure to present an argument.

But hey, we're not talking creation or evolution here, so maybe you won't be quite so obtuse. Worth a shot, anyway.

When you say I haven't understood the scriptures, clearly you mean that there is a scriptural meaning to the soul, heaven and hell that renders my argument here moot. Why don't you share that understanding with all of us?

It's not like you'd accept anything that doesn't agree with you.

 

[daveman]

Its your belief and not fact

And that is YOUR belief.

 

[daveman]

It is your belief and to you it is accepted as fact.

To the rest of the world it is merely myth.

You insult other peoples beliefs by pretending we have to accept it as fact.

Who says you have to accept it as fact?

It is not based on anything that can prove it as fact.

That is why they call it a faith.

You insult believers with your insistence their beliefs are false.

 

[BluePhantom]

No, that isn't my intent, and I agree it's fundamentally impossible to show either that the afterlife does or doesn't exist. I am referring specifically to the traditional Christian conceptions of an immortal soul that goes after death either to a blissful paradise or to a hell of suffering and remains there "for eternity."

Well I would certainly agree regarding "hell". Despite the English translations, the Bible never says there is a place of eternal torment and suffering that anyone goes to. That idea was created by Pope Gregory I (if I am not mistaken) in order to terrify the peasants into following church dogma and it's prevailed ever since. Many newer translations of the Bible, however, are going back to the three words usually translated into hell: "sheol" - a Hebrew word that just means "grave" and has nothing to do with an afterlife, "Hades" which is Greek and does imply an after life but did not distinguish from the righteous and unrighteous (everyone went to Hades good or bad), and "Gehenna" - also a Greek word for the city dump of Jerusalem where trash was burned.

So as far as "hell" (or at least the Christian concept of it) I would agree for the simple reason that there's no mention of it in the Bible....well at least there wasn't until the scriptures were intentionally altered.

My point is that even if there is some vehicle of consciousness that survives death, it could not do so "for eternity." All experience involves change, and anything that changes is inevitably mortal -- a change can render it nonexistent. So either the soul remains mortal, or else it does not experience anything and so ceases to exist for all practical purposes. (Or, of course, there is no soul.)

If you envision time as a timeline like we are taught in school I think your point would have more weight. But that's not the way time works. Time moves differently for everyone. Time isn't constant: it speeds up and slows down and (at least in theory) can even overlap. Since there is not one constant line of time that means past, present, and future all exist simultaneously...most physicists would agree with that....even that each person's perception of "the present" is different within time. In human form we can only perceive "the present" but that's not to say in a spiritual (or absolute form) we do not perceive it all collectively.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Its your belief and not fact

Show me from the scriptures otherwise.

From which scriptures would you like to hear from You Were Excreted? Hindu? Tao? Buddhist?

Or is your bullshit religion the only "one true way"?