HBCU’s And “Diversity”

[IanC]

On the Chronicle of Higher Education’s “Innovations” blog this morning, Marybeth Gasman lists the major findings of the recent United States Commission on Civil Rights report on The Educational Effectiveness of Historically Black College and Universities as follows:


• Although HBCU students tend to have lower SAT scores and high-school grades than their African-American counterparts at historically white institutions (HWI’s), they produce 40 percent of black science and engineering degrees with only 20 percent of black enrollment.

• Faculty members’ dedication to teaching, student-support networks, encouragement to pursue leadership posts in their fields of study, and the availability and access of faculty role models help to explain the success of an HBCU education—both empirically and anecdotally.

• HBCU students are 1.5 times more likely than their counterparts at HWI’s to collaborate with a faculty member on a research project.

• Given lower funding levels and the underprepared nature of some students, HBCU’s are “doing a much better job” than HWI’s in educating African American students.

• Of the top 21 undergraduate producers of African-American science Ph.D.s, 17 were HBCU’s. Of note, many of those students would have been considered underprepared by majority institutions.

• Nearly half of the nation’s African-American teachers graduated from HBCU’s, though this fact is rarely acknowledged.

• Students without optimal academic credentials are much more likely to succeed at an HBCU because of the supportive environment.

• African-American students are more engaged, both socially and academically, on HBCU campuses than at HWI’s.

• HBCU students are more likely to give to charity and to be more politically active.

• HBCU students are more likely to participate in service learning and religious activities.


“One of the most important recommendations in the Commission’s report is for HWI’s to carefully study the success of HBCU’s, especially in the sciences,” Gasman notes, “and to emulate that success and the best practices that lead to it.” HBCUs, she concludes, “have much to teach us about educating black and low-income students.”

Do you think there’s a chance that the success of HBCUs, probably the least “diverse” institutions in the country (Spelman, 1% white; Moorhouse 1% white; Hampton, 3% white, etc.) might teach “us” that “diversity” — at least as defined by the HWIs that worship it — is not essential to a good education?

16Dec2010 Discriminations


it is always interesting to find evidence that the benefits of 'diversity' are so contradictory when you look at real world cases.

 

[William Joyce]

Right: the lesson here is that SEGREGATION works.

Why not extend the concept to entire societies?

 

[IanC]

I prefer to see it as evidence that diversity has no intrinsic value other than what political correctness has bestowed.

The interesting finding is how much better blacks do when they get to set their own standards and dont have to deal with the success of other races. I wonder if the teachers trained at HBCUs have better pass rates on state competancy exams than black teachers trained at more diverse institutions?

 

[IanC]

For more than a half-century, government has tried to close racial gaps in educational attainment. Sad to say, those gaps have proven intractable. Nevertheless, the impulse remains as heartfelt as ever (perhaps due to its financially lucrative character), but the emphasis is now shifting from actual learning to equality of graduation rates. President Obama has spoken of adding 5 million graduates to the workforce by 2020, and credential-mania is now all the rage. This shift is a disaster in the making; imparting knowledge is commendable, but just handing out diplomas is harmful deception. A cynic might aver that the shift from knowledge to graduation rates is a tacit admission that the gap-closing quest is futile.
...
The tip-off to this educational chicanery is the silence regarding actual learning, as if the physical piece of paper signified educational competency. There is nothing about what these graduates majored in, their class rank and future academic success in graduate schools, professional certification exams scores, or future employment. Having the piece of paper is, apparently, the great accomplishment.


University outsiders seldom grasp the ease of manipulating graduation statistics when deception is officially tolerated. Critically, this sham is almost invisible to outsiders. I cannot for sure say how Towson University achieved these happy numbers, but in nearly four decades of university teaching, I have personally witnessed multiple ruses, and my colleagues often confirmed my observations.
...
Ill-prepared black students are the real losers in this deception, and one can only speculate why their liberal "friends" tolerate the dishonesty. Many would have been better-advised to enroll in a trade school and acquire a well-paid, marketable skill. In the long run, if a college degree is the aim, a "tough love" strategy of requiring passing arduous courses with modest outside help would be more beneficial. Surely President Obama has encountered these subterfuges in his academic career and must realize that calling for more and more diplomas will only increase the supply of college-educated waiters.


Some exceptions aside, granting ever more college diplomas only signifies the power of today's universities to counterfeit genuine accomplishment. Particularly worrisome is that many of these graduates have been trained for dependency. Picture these graduates navigating a cruel world deprived of role models, mentors, counselors, sympathetic evaluators, resource centers, pre-job bridge programs, and bosses unwilling to substitute ego-enhancing identity politics for difficult work.

American Thinker: The College Diploma Fraud


this is a good article. I wonder how many people really do think that it is the piece of paper that is important rather than the knowledge it is supposed to guarantee.

 

[daveman]

Right: the lesson here is that SEGREGATION works.

Why not extend the concept to entire societies?

If you find an all-white society, please move there.

 

[William Joyce]

Right: the lesson here is that SEGREGATION works.

Why not extend the concept to entire societies?

If you find an all-white society, please move there.

Demographic trends show -- much to the consternation of the folks discussing the issue on NPR last night -- that that's exactly what people do. I have in a sense taken your advice in that I now live in a county that is 98 percent white. Of course, I still pay a lot of taxes to support the non-whites elsewhere, and that's the problem. In a neighboring county, the city is black (50 percent) and the suburbs are white (80 percent).

The trend is the same throughout the nation. We AREN'T integrating. Racial groups prefer to cluster... it's practically a law of nature. Our efforts to disrupt this natural functioning have led to a lot of misery, annoyance and wasted money. But it makes liberals feel good, so we'll continue, I predict.

 

[William Joyce]

I prefer to see it as evidence that diversity has no intrinsic value other than what political correctness has bestowed.

Totally agreed.

The problem is that not only does it lack intrinsic value, it

1. Contains affirmative HARMS (see the work of Robert Putnam of Harvard, who has shown -- and he dislikes his own findings -- that people become repressed and anxious in "diverse" societies)

2. Is enforced as holy writ by the media, the law, academia, and our political class. Diversity is mandatory, in other words... it is the official state religion of America. Questioning "diversity" is like questioning Rome's authority during the Inquisition.

What we need, at the very least, is a "calling off of the dogs" on "diversity" and multiracialism, and to let things roll as they do without the EEOC filing lawsuits all over and political incorrectness being a huge social taboo.

The crucial point to my mind is that "diversity" is based on a falsehood: that racial and ethnic groups have no biologically inherent differences, only superficial ones. Not true. Racial and ethnic groups are very real. They have proven the undercurrent of history. Disraeli said that "race is all" and he was right.

And it's not just a silly liberal curiosity. It carries huge social costs, most of which are borne by whites.

 

[Montrovant]

I prefer to see it as evidence that diversity has no intrinsic value other than what political correctness has bestowed.

Totally agreed.

The problem is that not only does it lack intrinsic value, it

1. Contains affirmative HARMS (see the work of Robert Putnam of Harvard, who has shown -- and he dislikes his own findings -- that people become repressed and anxious in "diverse" societies)

2. Is enforced as holy writ by the media, the law, academia, and our political class. Diversity is mandatory, in other words... it is the official state religion of America. Questioning "diversity" is like questioning Rome's authority during the Inquisition.

What we need, at the very least, is a "calling off of the dogs" on "diversity" and multiracialism, and to let things roll as they do without the EEOC filing lawsuits all over and political incorrectness being a huge social taboo.

The crucial point to my mind is that "diversity" is based on a falsehood: that racial and ethnic groups have no biologically inherent differences, only superficial ones. Not true. Racial and ethnic groups are very real. They have proven the undercurrent of history. Disraeli said that "race is all" and he was right.

And it's not just a silly liberal curiosity. It carries huge social costs, most of which are borne by whites.

Cannot biologically inherent differences BE superficial?

 

[rdean]

The truth is that in the "real" world, if people can't do the job, they get fired. Business is NOT a charitable organization.

Have you noticed how many racist rants come from the right wing? Is it merely a coincidence the Republican Party is 90% white? And that Republicans have the most degrees ----> in Bible Study? And Republicans make up only 6% of scientists?

Now get this, this is absolutely hilarious. There are organizations for scientists from Hispanic, black, gay, women, Democrat and Liberal. But if there is one for Republicans or Conservatives, I couldn't find it. Seriously, is that hilarious or what? It's like the group that's the most dumb rants against other groups who are trying to improve themselves.

From gay man George Bernard Shaw:
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

BSA Black Scientists Association

Black Scientists Association Marks 10th Anniversary, August 31, 2004 NIH Record - National Institutes of Health (NIH)

SACNAS - Advancing Hispanics/Chicanos & Native Americans in Science

ALDES
THE ASSOCIATION OF LIBERAL DEMOCRAT ENGINEERS AND SCIENTISTS

 

[rdean]

The truth is that in the "real" world, if people can't do the job, they get fired. Business is NOT a charitable organization.

Have you noticed how many racist rants come from the right wing? Is it merely a coincidence the Republican Party is 90% white? And that Republicans have the most degrees ----> in Bible Study? And Republicans make up only 6% of scientists?

Now get this, this is absolutely hilarious. There are organizations for scientists from Hispanic, black, gay, women, Democrat and Liberal. But if there is one for Republicans or Conservatives, I couldn't find it. Seriously, is that hilarious or what? It's like the group that's the most dumb rants against other groups who are trying to improve themselves.

From gay man George Bernard Shaw:
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

BSA Black Scientists Association

Black Scientists Association Marks 10th Anniversary, August 31, 2004 NIH Record - National Institutes of Health (NIH)

SACNAS - Advancing Hispanics/Chicanos & Native Americans in Science

ALDES
THE ASSOCIATION OF LIBERAL DEMOCRAT ENGINEERS AND SCIENTISTS

Oh man, there I go again ruining ANOTHER thread with facts. No wonder right wingers call me names. Hopefully, they are only out looking for "scientific" websites made up of Republicans. Like THAT'S going to happen.

 

[Montrovant]

rdean, seriously, it's time for some new material.

 

[casper4020322]

Right: the lesson here is that SEGREGATION works.

Why not extend the concept to entire societies?

How could segretation work when your own ppl started intergrating with other races in the first place? Your ppl went to Hawaii as missionaires and now the Hawaiian population is mixed with your people. The same happened with the Japanese. Everywhere your people go that are of another culture those people end up with your people screwing their women and their women having babies with your people's blood in them. So, since you believe that the White race should not mix with other cultures you need to tell your people to stop putting their genes in other races and to only screw their own race of women. But are the men of your race going to listen? I seriously doubt it!

 

[IanC]

The truth is that in the "real" world, if people can't do the job, they get fired. Business is NOT a charitable organization.

Have you noticed how many racist rants come from the right wing? Is it merely a coincidence the Republican Party is 90% white? And that Republicans have the most degrees ----> in Bible Study? And Republicans make up only 6% of scientists?

Now get this, this is absolutely hilarious. There are organizations for scientists from Hispanic, black, gay, women, Democrat and Liberal. But if there is one for Republicans or Conservatives, I couldn't find it. Seriously, is that hilarious or what? It's like the group that's the most dumb rants against other groups who are trying to improve themselves.

From gay man George Bernard Shaw:
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

BSA Black Scientists Association

Black Scientists Association Marks 10th Anniversary, August 31, 2004 NIH Record - National Institutes of Health (NIH)

SACNAS - Advancing Hispanics/Chicanos & Native Americans in Science

ALDES
THE ASSOCIATION OF LIBERAL DEMOCRAT ENGINEERS AND SCIENTISTS

Oh man, there I go again ruining ANOTHER thread with facts. No wonder right wingers call me names. Hopefully, they are only out looking for "scientific" websites made up of Republicans. Like THAT'S going to happen.

I have asked this question a few times but I never get an answer. If blacks are so undervalued for their true worth why hasnt there been companies that gobble up this untapped market to make money hand over fist? Why are majority black areas that are governed by blacks so often cesspools of coruption, dependence and incompetence?

 

[Flagwavrusa]

I think it points out that the real imperative is to end the affirmative action boondoggle, without which these phony diplomas would be worthless. Unqualified minorites get ahold of one of these ersatz HBCU degrees and go banging on the door of corporate America demanding a white collar job. They know that companies like IBM and Fedex, who have quotas to fulfill, will hire them because they are afraid of getting sued if they employ too few minorities in positions that require a degree. When the company discovers their incompetence, its too late to fire them because that risks more legal action. Only after affirmative action finally comes to a welcome end - which will happen someday (the supreme court has said so) - and blacks are forced to compete strictly on merit, will graduating incompetents in this fashion be de-incentivized and this kind of absurdity be stopped.

 

[bucs90]

The truth is that in the "real" world, if people can't do the job, they get fired. Business is NOT a charitable organization.

Have you noticed how many racist rants come from the right wing? Is it merely a coincidence the Republican Party is 90% white? And that Republicans have the most degrees ----> in Bible Study? And Republicans make up only 6% of scientists?

Now get this, this is absolutely hilarious. There are organizations for scientists from Hispanic, black, gay, women, Democrat and Liberal. But if there is one for Republicans or Conservatives, I couldn't find it. Seriously, is that hilarious or what? It's like the group that's the most dumb rants against other groups who are trying to improve themselves.

From gay man George Bernard Shaw:
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

BSA Black Scientists Association

Black Scientists Association Marks 10th Anniversary, August 31, 2004 NIH Record - National Institutes of Health (NIH)

SACNAS - Advancing Hispanics/Chicanos & Native Americans in Science

ALDES
THE ASSOCIATION OF LIBERAL DEMOCRAT ENGINEERS AND SCIENTISTS

Oh man, there I go again ruining ANOTHER thread with facts. No wonder right wingers call me names. Hopefully, they are only out looking for "scientific" websites made up of Republicans. Like THAT'S going to happen.

I have asked this question a few times but I never get an answer. If blacks are so undervalued for their true worth why hasnt there been companies that gobble up this untapped market to make money hand over fist? Why are majority black areas that are governed by blacks so often cesspools of coruption, dependence and incompetence?

You're right.

If business is 90% black, it'll probably fail.
If a community is 90% black, it'sll probably have huge crime rate and trashy.

The only thing that can succeed with a 90% black rate is NBA or NFL teams. And even then, at least in NFL, you need a white coaching staff.

 

[IanC]

I think it points out that the real imperative is to end the affirmative action boondoggle, without which these phony diplomas would be worthless. Unqualified minorites get ahold of one of these ersatz HBCU degrees and go banging on the door of corporate America demanding a white collar job. They know that companies like IBM and Fedex, who have quotas to fulfill, will hire them because they are afraid of getting sued if they employ too few minorities in positions that require a degree. When the company discovers their incompetence, its too late to fire them because that risks more legal action. Only after affirmative action finally comes to a welcome end - which will happen someday (the supreme court has said so) - and blacks are forced to compete strictly on merit, will graduating incompetents in this fashion be de-incentivized and this kind of absurdity be stopped.

I am actually in favour of affirmative action. but not in the quotas that it invariably devolves into. AA should be in place to facilitate minorities and the poor to get education and jobs once they demonstrate their abilities, a thumb on the scale. It should not be a bean counting exercize that just looks at the race rather than the individual.

 

[Flagwavrusa]

I think it points out that the real imperative is to end the affirmative action boondoggle, without which these phony diplomas would be worthless. Unqualified minorites get ahold of one of these ersatz HBCU degrees and go banging on the door of corporate America demanding a white collar job. They know that companies like IBM and Fedex, who have quotas to fulfill, will hire them because they are afraid of getting sued if they employ too few minorities in positions that require a degree. When the company discovers their incompetence, its too late to fire them because that risks more legal action. Only after affirmative action finally comes to a welcome end - which will happen someday (the supreme court has said so) - and blacks are forced to compete strictly on merit, will graduating incompetents in this fashion be de-incentivized and this kind of absurdity be stopped.

I am actually in favour of affirmative action. but not in the quotas that it invariably devolves into. AA should be in place to facilitate minorities and the poor to get education and jobs once they demonstrate their abilities, a thumb on the scale. It should not be a bean counting exercize that just looks at the race rather than the individual.

That's a little further than I would go because I am opposed to any policies that grant an advantage based upon skin color. I agree we need a government work program for those on the bottom whose only other alternatives are crime or welfare. They could be employed maintaining the nation's infrastructure. I would not attach any racial criteria to it. I would also provide funding for extra educational efforts targeting disadvantaged groups, but then let the free market decide everything else.

 

[IanC]

I think it points out that the real imperative is to end the affirmative action boondoggle, without which these phony diplomas would be worthless. Unqualified minorites get ahold of one of these ersatz HBCU degrees and go banging on the door of corporate America demanding a white collar job. They know that companies like IBM and Fedex, who have quotas to fulfill, will hire them because they are afraid of getting sued if they employ too few minorities in positions that require a degree. When the company discovers their incompetence, its too late to fire them because that risks more legal action. Only after affirmative action finally comes to a welcome end - which will happen someday (the supreme court has said so) - and blacks are forced to compete strictly on merit, will graduating incompetents in this fashion be de-incentivized and this kind of absurdity be stopped.

I am actually in favour of affirmative action. but not in the quotas that it invariably devolves into. AA should be in place to facilitate minorities and the poor to get education and jobs once they demonstrate their abilities, a thumb on the scale. It should not be a bean counting exercize that just looks at the race rather than the individual.

That's a little further than I would go because I am opposed to any policies that grant an advantage based upon skin color. I agree we need a government work program for those on the bottom whose only other alternatives are crime or welfare. They could be employed maintaining the nation's infrastructure. I would not attach any racial criteria to it. I would also provide funding for extra educational efforts targeting disadvantaged groups, but then let the free market decide everything else.

While I like the idea of affirmative action being geared to help poor people reach middle class status and acquire middle class values, I also see the importance of finding every 'worthy' black and uplifting them for the benefit of society as a whole. Whites (even poor whites) generally have more access to achieving middle class culture than blacks do. Add in the significant headwind that lower average intelligence handicaps blacks with and it is especially important to make sure all competent blacks reach their potential.

Unfortunately the culture of 'its owed to me' seems more prevelent than 'its available if I earn it'.