Has the supreme court already decided the wall case?

[jc456]

Has the Supreme Court Already Decided the Wall Case?

Interesting. I think Trump AND the country wins the wall case either way but this is interesting.

I think the article gives some relevant things to think about, for sure!
FULL DISCLOSURE
Know that I am against Trump calling this "an emergency" because it truly is not one and I think he is abusing his power by calling it one, which will diminish the meaning of Emergency, and could also set a very bad precedent for future presidents to abuse this power, as Trump has so obviously done!

I am also against it because I believe it diminishes Congress's constitutionally given power of the purse and increases the power of the Executive branch who are not elected by us and the President's power as a single operator to run OUR govt.

Diminishing Congress's power actually diminishes OUR power of electing those who represent us... they are the only ones who represent us, "no taxation, without representation", kind of thingy...

You may like it now because its the easy way to get what you want, but what about the majority of the other citizens in this Nation? And what about when there is another president in there and congress specifically, with legislation, denies that President the funds he asks for.... and that next President decides to call it a National Emergency... even though IT IS NOT ONE, to get thousands of millions of dollars that Congress, our representatives, had already denied for the project of his choice, like Climate Change or Universal Health Care or Reparations etc?

This is really not good for the country Odium, for the future of our country long term.

It's just like Congress giving up their power to vote yes or no, to declaring War... that means we the people, no longer have a say in when to send our fathers, brothers, son's to their death, in War.

--------------------------------
Now, for what the op ed article author said... I think he could be right... even though Trump is trying to usurp congress's power of the purse given to them by the Constitution, the congress can stop him through the legislation the House just provided, if the Senate votes in favor for it too.

Trump can veto this legislation, then the Congress would have to vote to override the veto which takes 2/3's of the House and Senate to do such.

And sadly, the Republicans in Congress do NOT care about the future of their Country, nor their constitutional requirement to appropriate all funds, and only care about their reelection....

In other words, they fear the Wrath of Trump, and losing their seat.

The lawsuit may not be able to use what Trump has said, like he doesn't need this money, or It is not an emergency but he just wants to do it faster kind of crud, as the op ed writer has speculated because it ended up not mattering that he was a bigot and said basically he wanted to ban all Muslims in the Muslim Ban court case,

and the SC may only be looking at whether this is within his power, (given to him by Congress in this case) and NOT get in to it being an emergency or not being an emergency kind of stuff, or the facts in this issue like, illegal immigration has already been reduced drastically since it's all time high....??

If that is the case, and likely so... then because Congress, the House and Senate, did not get the 2/3's to override the veto, then it all would appear to be legal, and within the law even if Trump is making the whole "Emergency" up.

so you don't think 20 million illegals in our country, 400,000 still crossing our borders, over 200 bodies found dead in the desert a week because the coyotes released them to die , and drugs coming into our country illegally through areas where a wall isn't a crisis. BTW, it would be the spot I'd go if the objective was to get drugs into the US for revenue rather than the ports of entry. No challenge. Kids being used as slaves and sold. Naw, no fking emergency there, even though Obammy called it a crisis in 2014, and chuckie called it unacceptable in 2009 and pelosti said so in 2006. nope, you all got it. you know it fking all. yep, TDS to the max.

 

[danielpalos]

Has the Supreme Court Already Decided the Wall Case?

Interesting. I think Trump AND the country wins the wall case either way but this is interesting.

There is no express wall building clause.

 

[candycorn]

SC-
President Trump, you said this .... "I want to do it faster. I could do the wall over a longer period of time. I didn't need to do this, but I'd rather do it much faster,"
If you didn't need to declare a national emergency, then what makes it an emergency ?

Trump-
They're saying its an emergency -

SC-
OK, Thank you sir -

I think it will stand. Not because it should but because its uncharted territory.
If you think about the precedent of declaring a national emergency to satisfy a campaign promise--which is what this is; hold that thought.
Also consider that the Court will likely not want to get into the business of having to decide what is a true national emergency and what isn't a true national emergency.

Put another way, a true national emergency like we have with rampage killings and the proliferation of guns can be declared by this or any other president. The opposition will sue, the court (Supreme or otherwise) will have to get involved to render a verdict.

So I'm pretty sure the Court doesn't want to put itself into the position of deciding if the conditions on the ground constitute the nebulous term of "emergency".

I could be surprised by this and the court may very well look at the fucking idiot we have in the White House and tell him to stop being a jerk but it's more likely the Court doesn't want to wade into the minutia.

I hope they do otherwise.

That being said....the court may render a position on the powers a President has during an emergency;
Taking already appropriated monies for another purpose is suspect and gets into the checks and balances that are the basis of our government.

 

[skews13]

Has the Supreme Court Already Decided the Wall Case?

Interesting. I think Trump AND the country wins the wall case either way but this is interesting.

I think the next Democratic President wins the infrastructure emergency and the raising of taxes on corporations and the rich to pay for it. Same for a green energy emergency.

Good luck with your case.

 

[Preacher]

Has the Supreme Court Already Decided the Wall Case?

Interesting. I think Trump AND the country wins the wall case either way but this is interesting.

I think the next Democratic President wins the infrastructure emergency and the raising of taxes on corporations and the rich to pay for it. Same for a green energy emergency.

Good luck with your case.

Nah come on! Go after guns! Lets set this civil war off!

 

[busybee01]

Congress has already voted for a wall.

Congress has already funded a wall.

(Part of) A wall has been built.

Congress gave the President the authority to declare NEs.

Former President Obama declared our SW border to be a crisis.

Nancy Pelosi has called our SW border a crisis.

Chuck Schumer has called our SW border a crisis.

SO GOOD LUCK ARGUING THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP WANTS TO DO ANYTHING UN-CONSTITUTIONAL!

IT IS OBVIOUS THE DEMOCRATS ARE PLAYING POLITICS IN AN ATTEMPT TO HURT TRUMP'S 2020 RE-ELECTION BID.

There are over 20 million illegals in this country, approx 11 million we know nothing about.

Most of this illegals are further breaking the law by using forged / stolen documents to get jobs and more.

Over 1,000 illegals attempt to illegally cross into the US, approx 1,000enter the US per day.

Since Democrats have stood with illegals to ensure our borders and remain porous and our laws are not enforced more illegal caravans bringing thousands more illegals keep coming...all wanting that US Resident tax payer-funded 'free stuff'.

Democrats / snowflakes do not care they are compromising our national security as long as Trump does not get 'a win'.

You really don't understand how the Constitution works.

Just because Congress authorizes something does not entail a obligation to fund it. Congress can authorize something and defund it the next year.

Congress cannot cede it's power of the purse through a law. It would require a Constitutional Amendment. The crux of the opposition to gun control is that it violates the Constitution. In other words, a gun control law cannot override the Constitution. In this case, you are arguing a law can ignore the Constitution. 1 national emergency was declared unconstitutional.

The crisis that Obama faced was the fact that unaccompanied children were coming over the border and the Obama Administration was not prepared for this. There was never a threat to the country.

IF THE CASE IS DECIDED ON THE CONSTITUTION THEN TRUMP WILL LOSE.
“No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.”
— U.S. Constitution, Article I, section 9, clause 7

IT IS OBVIOUS THAT TRUMP IS PLAYING TO HIS RACIST BASE. HE IS THE ONE PLAYING POLITICS.

We have asylum laws and Trump refuses to enforce them. He is rewriting them. As a result, battered wives are being deported back to their abusive husbands. People are being returned to countries dominated by drug cartels and several have been killed. These drug cartels are fueled by American dollars. We are responsible for this mess.

I stand with a majority of Americans who DO NOT SEE THE WALL AS A NECESSITY FOR NATIONAL SECURITY. Unarmed Hondurans do not threaten this country.

 

[busybee01]

The Supremes have to rule with matters of law, not partisanship.

...or based on pure EMOTION.

Trump is the one using emotion. Fear and hatred. It didn't work in the midterms.

 

[busybee01]

Oh I think Trump has the constitution on his side.

The court won't decide on the wall but on whether or not Trump has the right to declare a National Emergency and he does.

We all know the President has the right to declare a national emergency, but does he have the right to declare a national emergency when none exists, in order to do an end around the Congressional control of the public purse as stipulated by the Constitution, and the answer to that is "NO".

Oh so over 11 million illegals in this country that cost we the tax payer billions ever year isn't a national emergency??

Illegals that murder, rape and rob American citizens isn't an emergency??

If you had lost a loved one to an illegal you would be singing a much different tune.

We've had a national emergency pertaining to illegals in this country for decades. Where the hell have you been??

The SC won't be looking at the reason for a NE, they will be looking to see if the POTUS has the right to claim a NE. And he does.

Maybe tiny donnie shouldn't have told us all that he "didn't need to do this", then.

He didn't need to do it if Congress had done their job!

Why are you so stupid?

You are the one who is stupid.

Congress did their job or to put it another way, the President proposes and Congress disposes. The Congress considered funding for a wall and rejected it.

Even Trump supporter Alan Dershowitz says that a national emergency is not Congress refusing to fund a President's program.

 

[busybee01]

Has the Supreme Court Already Decided the Wall Case?

Interesting. I think Trump AND the country wins the wall case either way but this is interesting.

If Trump wins then the country and Republicans lose in the long run. Trump will not win if the Constitution is followed. The Constitution is very clear on Congress' power of the purse. Maybe we should look at DACA as well. The Supreme Court passed on a case this year which means the earliest it can be taken up is in October. John Roberts decided this was a political case and he decided to delay taking one as long as possible in hopes of the people deciding this. If the so-called conservatives show that they are phony conservatives by siding with Trump, Roberts could vote not to take the case and run the clock out.

David French of NR has provided a analysis as well and his opinion is Trump will not win.

With the president’s authority constitutionally constrained in a time of actual war, President Trump won’t have greater power when the “foe” isn’t the Chinese Army but instead a caravan of poor, unarmed Hondurans.

The reason the public largely doesn’t track these emergency declarations is that they don’t make the president an autocrat. Instead, they unlock powers that are themselves limited by statute. And, in this case, the two relevant statutes for the border wall are simply not broad enough to encompass Trump’s dream of “military” eminent domain.

The first statute is 10 U.S.C. Section 2808. Its language is relatively restrictive:

In the event of a declaration of war or the declaration by the President of a national emergency in accordance with the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.) that requires use of the armed forces, the Secretary of Defense, without regard to any other provision of law, may undertake military construction projects, and may authorize the Secretaries of the military departments to undertake military construction projects, not otherwise authorized by law that are necessary to support such use of the armed forces. Such projects may be undertaken only within the total amount of funds that have been appropriated for military construction, including funds appropriated for family housing, that have not been obligated. [Emphasis added.]
​

Note the key limitations. The president would have to show that the “emergency” requires the use of the military — a difficult task in a time of peace when the relevant border is with a national ally. It’s a task rendered even more difficult by the fact that border security is a function of the civilian Department of Homeland Security, not the Department of Defense.

Even then, the language indicates the funds can be used only to support the “use” of the armed forces. This strongly implies that the funding would be reserved for projects that benefit the military. That conclusion is buttressed by the next section, which relates to a different category of project — those projects that are actually essential to national defense. 33 U.S.C Section 2293 states:

In the event of a declaration of war or a declaration by the President of a national emergency in accordance with the National Emergencies Act [50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.] that requires or may require use of the Armed Forces, the Secretary, without regard to any other provision of law, may (1) terminate or defer the construction, operation, maintenance, or repair of any Department of the Army civil works project that he deems not essential to the national defense, and (2) apply the resources of the Department of the Army’s civil works program, including funds, personnel, and equipment, to construct or assist in the construction, operation, maintenance, and repair of authorized civil works, military construction, and civil defense projects that are essential to the national defense. [Emphasis added.]
​

Once again, I’ve highlighted the relevant provisions. Section 2293 grants the president greater discretion in one clause, then limits that discretion in another. While the emergency only “may require” use of the military, the project must be both “authorized” and “essential” to “national defense.” The language plainly contemplates shifting of funds from one or more projects to other projects already authorized.

A new or expanded border barrier has not been authorized by any lawful process.

Donald Trump Can’t Use an Emergency Declaration To Build a Wall | National Review

so dude, the constitution? who gave the presidents the power to declare a National Emergency? And were there guidelines to the use of that power? that's all you have to really answer.

Congress cannot cede its Constitutional powers through a law. If a gun ban was legally passed, you would claim that the Constitution overrides a law. In this case, you are claiming a law overrides the Constitution.

 

[easyt65]

Congress has already voted for a wall.

Congress has already funded a wall.

(Part of) A wall has been built.

Congress gave the President the authority to declare NEs.

Former President Obama declared our SW border to be a crisis.

Nancy Pelosi has called our SW border a crisis.

Chuck Schumer has called our SW border a crisis.

SO GOOD LUCK ARGUING THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP WANTS TO DO ANYTHING UN-CONSTITUTIONAL!

IT IS OBVIOUS THE DEMOCRATS ARE PLAYING POLITICS IN AN ATTEMPT TO HURT TRUMP'S 2020 RE-ELECTION BID.

There are over 20 million illegals in this country, approx 11 million we know nothing about.

Most of this illegals are further breaking the law by using forged / stolen documents to get jobs and more.

Over 1,000 illegals attempt to illegally cross into the US, approx 1,000enter the US per day.

Since Democrats have stood with illegals to ensure our borders and remain porous and our laws are not enforced more illegal caravans bringing thousands more illegals keep coming...all wanting that US Resident tax payer-funded 'free stuff'.

Democrats / snowflakes do not care they are compromising our national security as long as Trump does not get 'a win'.

You really don't understand how the Constitution works.

Just because Congress authorizes something does not entail a obligation to fund it. Congress can authorize something and defund it the next year.

Congress cannot cede it's power of the purse through a law. It would require a Constitutional Amendment. The crux of the opposition to gun control is that it violates the Constitution. In other words, a gun control law cannot override the Constitution. In this case, you are arguing a law can ignore the Constitution. 1 national emergency was declared unconstitutional.

The crisis that Obama faced was the fact that unaccompanied children were coming over the border and the Obama Administration was not prepared for this. There was never a threat to the country.

IF THE CASE IS DECIDED ON THE CONSTITUTION THEN TRUMP WILL LOSE.
“No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.”
— U.S. Constitution, Article I, section 9, clause 7

IT IS OBVIOUS THAT TRUMP IS PLAYING TO HIS RACIST BASE. HE IS THE ONE PLAYING POLITICS.

We have asylum laws and Trump refuses to enforce them. He is rewriting them. As a result, battered wives are being deported back to their abusive husbands. People are being returned to countries dominated by drug cartels and several have been killed. These drug cartels are fueled by American dollars. We are responsible for this mess.

I stand with a majority of Americans who DO NOT SEE THE WALL AS A NECESSITY FOR NATIONAL SECURITY. Unarmed Hondurans do not threaten this country.

HEY SNOWFLAKE , WHERE HAS THIS ENTIRE LEFTIST TANTRUM-THOWING OPPOSITION BULLSHIT BEEN FOR DECADES AS PRESIDENTS STARTING WITH CARTER ALL THE WAY THROUGH OBAMA USED THIS AUTHORITY GIVEN TO THEM BY CONGRESS?

WHERE WAS YOUR FAUX OUTRAGE WHILE BARRYS USED IT SOMETHING LIKE 13 TIMES ON CRAP LIKE BURUNDI?

Funny how you have not been concerned about any former President 'violating the Constitution' until the Democrats' illegitimate criminal candidate who was given the nomination she could not win LOST her election in 2016...at which point insane sore loser butt-hurt TDS-infected Trump-Haters lost their friggin' minds!

If you want to suddenly play the 'Constitution' game, just publicly declare Obama violated the Constitution...better yet have Obama himself publicly declare that he violated the Constitution - more than he already did - by issuing NEs then have Congress pass legislation stating ALL NEs declared by former Presidents are illegal and void them out.

And while all that is happening, put some salve on that inflamed hypocritical butt-hurt of yours.

 

[skews13]

Has the Supreme Court Already Decided the Wall Case?

Interesting. I think Trump AND the country wins the wall case either way but this is interesting.

I think the next Democratic President wins the infrastructure emergency and the raising of taxes on corporations and the rich to pay for it. Same for a green energy emergency.

Good luck with your case.

Nah come on! Go after guns! Lets set this civil war off!

Nah. Putting solar panels and windmills everywhere you look and listening to the Republicans whine and cry about the new taxes they are paying is way more fun.

 

[danielpalos]

there is no express wall building clause in our Constitution.

 

[Preacher]

Has the Supreme Court Already Decided the Wall Case?

Interesting. I think Trump AND the country wins the wall case either way but this is interesting.

I think the next Democratic President wins the infrastructure emergency and the raising of taxes on corporations and the rich to pay for it. Same for a green energy emergency.

Good luck with your case.

Nah come on! Go after guns! Lets set this civil war off!

Nah. Putting solar panels and windmills everywhere you look and listening to the Republicans whine and cry about the new taxes they are paying is way more fun.

Oh new gun targets! Awesome! Sounds good. So do you plan on stealing American's property to install these eyesores?

 

[Claudette]

Oh I think Trump has the constitution on his side.

The court won't decide on the wall but on whether or not Trump has the right to declare a National Emergency and he does.

We all know the President has the right to declare a national emergency, but does he have the right to declare a national emergency when none exists, in order to do an end around the Congressional control of the public purse as stipulated by the Constitution, and the answer to that is "NO".

Oh so over 11 million illegals in this country that cost we the tax payer billions ever year isn't a national emergency??

Illegals that murder, rape and rob American citizens isn't an emergency??

If you had lost a loved one to an illegal you would be singing a much different tune.

We've had a national emergency pertaining to illegals in this country for decades. Where the hell have you been??

The SC won't be looking at the reason for a NE, they will be looking to see if the POTUS has the right to claim a NE. And he does.

Maybe tiny donnie shouldn't have told us all that he "didn't need to do this", then.

He didn't need to do it if Congress had done their job!

Why are you so stupid?

You are the one who is stupid.

Congress did their job or to put it another way, the President proposes and Congress disposes. The Congress considered funding for a wall and rejected it.

Even Trump supporter Alan Dershowitz says that a national emergency is not Congress refusing to fund a President's program.

No dumbass. The national emergency is the over 11 million illegals in this country that cost we the tax payer billions each year.

The national emergency are the American citizens robbed, raped and murder by these illegals every year.

The national emergency are the thousand of fake asylum seekers trying to get into the US.

This wall is the same wall Pelousy voted for several years ago. She's a hypocrite.

 

[danielpalos]

Has the Supreme Court Already Decided the Wall Case?

Interesting. I think Trump AND the country wins the wall case either way but this is interesting.

I think the next Democratic President wins the infrastructure emergency and the raising of taxes on corporations and the rich to pay for it. Same for a green energy emergency.

Good luck with your case.

Nah come on! Go after guns! Lets set this civil war off!

Nah. Putting solar panels and windmills everywhere you look and listening to the Republicans whine and cry about the new taxes they are paying is way more fun.

Oh new gun targets! Awesome! Sounds good. So do you plan on stealing American's property to install these eyesores?

Only True Socialists, do that.

 

[danielpalos]

We all know the President has the right to declare a national emergency, but does he have the right to declare a national emergency when none exists, in order to do an end around the Congressional control of the public purse as stipulated by the Constitution, and the answer to that is "NO".

Oh so over 11 million illegals in this country that cost we the tax payer billions ever year isn't a national emergency??

Illegals that murder, rape and rob American citizens isn't an emergency??

If you had lost a loved one to an illegal you would be singing a much different tune.

We've had a national emergency pertaining to illegals in this country for decades. Where the hell have you been??

The SC won't be looking at the reason for a NE, they will be looking to see if the POTUS has the right to claim a NE. And he does.

Maybe tiny donnie shouldn't have told us all that he "didn't need to do this", then.

He didn't need to do it if Congress had done their job!

Why are you so stupid?

You are the one who is stupid.

Congress did their job or to put it another way, the President proposes and Congress disposes. The Congress considered funding for a wall and rejected it.

Even Trump supporter Alan Dershowitz says that a national emergency is not Congress refusing to fund a President's program.

No dumbass. The national emergency is the over 11 million illegals in this country that cost we the tax payer billions each year.

The national emergency are the American citizens robbed, raped and murder by these illegals every year.

The national emergency are the thousand of fake asylum seekers trying to get into the US.

This wall is the same wall Pelousy voted for several years ago. She's a hypocrite.

We have a Commerce Clause not an immigration clause.

 

[MAGAman]

He can’t steal funds congressionally allocated elsewhere

He doesn't need to steal funds.

Congress passed a law with the explicit intent to give POTUS legal authority to reallocate funds.

America wins. You lose.

 

[danielpalos]

He can’t steal funds congressionally allocated elsewhere

He doesn't need to steal funds.

Congress passed a law with the explicit intent to give POTUS legal authority to reallocate funds.

America wins. You lose.

there is no express wall building clause.

our welfare clause is general and we have a commerce clause.