Hanson: US Wants Europe To Survive

Discussion in 'Europe' started by Annie, Jan 7, 2006.

  1. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    Yup:

    http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson200601060804.asp

     
  2. Harmageddon
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    Harmageddon Member

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    First of all, thank you Kathianne for posting this article.

    I wholeheartedly agree with the notion of Hanson that Europe and the United States have far more in common than is generally acknowledged, in these trying times. The planet seems to be stressed out, and instead of getting our heads around the common ground and start working towards progress from there, nations as well as people start calling everybody names, including their friends.

    I have been completely surprised by some members of the board, that have honestly stated that they percieve Europe as the largest threat to the soveirgnty of the United States. Our grandfathers would roll around in their graves if they should witness such a deteriorating stance between once friendly continents.

    And yes, I have been agressive in my stance towards American policy in numerous posts, for I sincerely believe that your present administration is wreaking havoc on international relations and has taken on the role of a catalyst in the rush towards the rapture a lot of people believe is coming.
    In my view, there is probably no God, thus no rapture. But even if there were a God, I don't believe that we as a race will be rewarded if we speed up the mutual destruction just to get a glimpse of his divine being at judgement day.

    On the other hand, things are not all that bleak of course.
    Yes, these are difficult times on both a national and an international scale.
    But we have been here before, at the brink of global war. The Cuba Crisis is as of yet still the closest we have been to collective suicide. We will cope.

    As for the mutual dependence between the European Union (remember, we are all soveirgn nations, not a unified nation called Europe) and the United States, I remain with what I have stated in the very beginning on this board: we need each other, we are very similar people, and I still consider the United States to be a worthy and loving country.

    But the War on Terror is dangerous in concept alone.
    It is fairly obvious your present administration follows the Project for the New American Century's blueprints. And they call for a strategic positioning of the American forces throughout the world, to establish "full spectrum dominance" in areas of interest to the United States.

    And although it may be that some honest people are seriously considering a role for America to police the globe to a western society that is governed by democracy (a major improvement for many countries, no doubt), this can never be established by a single nation.

    For if a single nation were to do this, like some modern-day version of ancient Rome, it will only be profitable if the process is speeded up. If it is not profitable, it's not going to happen. We are governed by capitalism.
    And leaving countries on their own to figure out democracy will be too slow. Speeding up the process can be accomplished though, in several ways.

    By bribery and covert operations, funding local military groups, that can force a military coup that overthrows the local regime. But the speeding is more easy and controllable by using your own military forces to install a local democratic regime.

    That is supposedly what is happening today in Iraq.

    And instead of a profitable venture, it churns into a very expensive one. For you have been to cheap in your overseas colonial adventure. Nation building requires tremendous recources, over a long period of time. Only then can they become profitable ventures. Most of you undoubtedly feel like Iraq is not being colonized at all, only liberated. Modern day warfare requires cleverly disguised missions as to not provoke international outrage. Liberated in this context would mean freed from the chains of self-governing and welcomed into the American economy, as a client state.

    Europe has no clean hands either, of course. That is the sad state of of the current affairs of international politics. Milosovic was a son of a b*tch and the European Union did not show leadership nor resolve. To equate the leading role of America in that war with her role in the second world war goes a bit far though.

    In the second world war America did not join for the first five years, only after Pearl Harbour did the government feel it had the leverage required to convince the American public of the need to get involved. Five years of ongoing war had already raged across the European continent, and into the USSR.

    Thanks anyway though. (this is NOT sarcasm)
     
  3. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    Stop right there. In this gap comes the problem of secularism of Europe and religion of US, regardless of form. It is the insistence of Europe that we bow to their ways or go our own way. Reason tells one, which is stronger? In any number of ways?
    thanks for proving my point. Now, as for speeding up 'mutual destruction', hardly likely considering the power difference, but nevermind...[quote[

    On the other hand, things are not all that bleak of course.
    Yes, these are difficult times on both a national and an international scale.
    But we have been here before, at the brink of global war. The Cuba Crisis is as of yet still the closest we have been to collective suicide. We will cope.

    As for the mutual dependence between the European Union (remember, we are all soveirgn nations, not a unified nation called Europe) and the United States, I remain with what I have stated in the very beginning on this board: we need each other, we are very similar people, and I still consider the United States to be a worthy and loving country. [/quote] I'm not trying to be a naysayer here, but WHY do we need you? I mean in 2006, not 1776? You need us, but I will agree that it would be BETTER if we were standing together, but somehow I think as I read further, you disagree...
    Perhaps I'm misreading here. I'm inferring that since the US has not been able to get EU nations 'on board', BECAUSE OF GW!!!!, we should give up? Appeasement by default? My the mighty EU nations have fallen, according to one of the spokesmen from the Netherlands, that once mighty power, when was that?
    NO, WE, the US are capitalistic, YOU are socialistic, do not mix the economics.
    Thank you for emphasizing my earlier point. EU is NOT capitalistic or strong. They want US to throw out their advantages, since that would even the playing field. Sorry, no Mulligans!
    Yes, of course. Why? Never mind...
    Yeah, don't bother us about NOW, let's talk about what you did wrong in 1938, nevermind 1941, 42, 43, 44, 45, 50, 55, 56, 57, 60, 61, 62, ...80, 81,82, 83, 84, 85, 86,...
     
  4. Harmageddon
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    If you infer that Europe is solely secular I’d have to disappoint you. Italy and Poland are over 70% catholic nations, and many other countries in Europe, including my own, are full of religious people. It is solely my personal view that even if there is a God, He would not be pleased by the waging of a war in his creation.

    Nor is Europe saying our way or the highway, although that is what Bush has told the world in his first war on terror speeches. Europe has a long history of interfering in other nation’s affairs, and although the United States’ list is younger, it is not the less impressive.
    Are you seriously wondering why you might need us? Economics, baby.
    That’s the word. And they are way bigger now than they were in 1776.

    That Europe did not come on board had nothing to do with GW as a person, but with the fact that he is the president at the time your nation starts this nation building phase. And Europe likes to think the nation building should be over and done with. We should however encourage other nations to advance, through diplomatic means. Whatever, don’t appease to us, just consider your actions as a nation. And if over half the world condemns them, you might want to check your assumptions of greatness.
    As for the Netherlands owning you, how’s about we kick your ass at the world championship soccer games this year?
    Do not confuse a social system with socialism. We are capitalists, and very greedy ones at that according to legend. We do have a social security system though, based on the idea that a large middle class is good for the economy of our nation.

    The European Unions economy is on the rise. And judging by the financial markets, the euro is doing fine, it may even be a bit too strong. We do not want you to throw out our advantages; that would be ridiculous. Neither are we interested in throwing out your advantages. We are interested in less aggressive market strategies than the current ones you’re engaged in, in Iraq.
     
  5. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    Solely, non. Predominately, yes. Italy is secular, not so Poland. Do you understand the difference? Are there 'religious' in every European country, I would assume, yes. Are they few and far between? Yes.
    Yes they are. All the pipsqueak voices. They have no migh† unless the UN gives them. But WE can ignore, even the BIG, BAD UN. Shouldn't have to, it should be what it was designed to be, but it isn't. We DO wish the world was different, but do get that it is not. Realpolitik.
    Laugh, really! :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: When we need EU for economic reasons, you better hold onto the closest oak you can find. Asshat.

    Wrong, again. It had everything to do with GW, little if anything to do with nation building. More to do with being left out of the loop, since your 'loop' was tied to Oil for Food.
    Over 1/2 the world includes more than a few theocracies, dictatorships, fascist regimes, and communist states. :wtf:As for the EU, when you can control your own angry immigrants, that have justified reasons for murdering your middle class and upper class, come and lecture us.
    could be.
    Dreaming, dreaming...
     
  6. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    One man's freedom fighter...

    http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/645

     

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