CDZ Guns, Culture & Politics

[JoeB131]

No it's not

70% of all murder in this country occurs in very distinct and small areas of 5% of all the counties in the country.

Yeah, the parts where people ACTUALLY LIVE. Amazing, that.

Take your objections to Nikolas Cruz ... You have no right to punish me for something he did.
What you are fine with is irrelevant to me, I will not accept your desires to infringe upon my rights any further.

It's simple Joe ... Quit talking in circles ... I understand you and your objections.

Oh, i don't think you understand how completely tired I am of you gun fetishists and your obliviousness to how much you are fucking up this society for the rest of us. I'm tired of walking through multiple security checkpoints to get to places.

Absolute bullshit. There are 300,000,000 guns in civilian hands. 100,000,000 people own guns. And we have fewer than 10k murders with guns.

19 guys hijacked some airplanes. Now we make sure we know everyone who gets on an airplane is searched and background checked.

One child died when she was impaled through the head with a lawn dart. We banned the sale of lawn darts.

One jerkwad put cyanide in some medicines. Now every OTC medicine has safety seals.

So, sorry, "only" 11,000 murders (not fewer than 10K like you said) is more than good enough reason to treat guns like any other product that is dangerous. Take it off the market or severely restrict its use.

 

[BlackSand]

Oh, i don't think you understand how completely tired I am of you gun fetishists and your obliviousness to how much you are fucking up this society for the rest of us. I'm tired of walking through multiple security checkpoints to get to places.

Of course I understand you may not like what you are required to do.
I understand you choose to view things the way you do ... And you are certainly clear in the way your express your concerns.

Problem is ... None of your desires are equivalent to nor compliant with legislation.
Keep on being tired, frustrated and disgusted with society ... If that makes you feel any better.

I am not asking you for permission to do anything ... And don't require your approval.
Beat your head against the wall if you think it helps you any.

.

 

[Pop23]

The problem is the left is never satisfied, give and inch and they demand another mile. History proves it.

Laws can be changed back. Fixing a culture is a much larger task. We either get on this, or no laws really matter.
.

What new law would have prevented Parkland....I've asked this numerous times and still haven't gotten a honest answer. If current laws had been followed Cruz would have never been allowed to purchase a firearm

Banning the use of prescription mood altering drugs on minors.

There, you want a fix, you just read it.

 

[Pop23]

If I were King (I'm working on it, but the RED TAPE is HORRENDOUS), this whole gun debate would be going in a very different direction.

Certain forces are keeping the debate about guns on regulation and banning and even confiscation, forcing gun supporters on the defensive. These forces are ignoring - and, I think, purposely - the real problem here, which is a sick and decaying culture that is spitting out more damaged psychopaths by the day.

If I had my way, the gun supporters would bend and allow for some basic (and perfectly reasonable) regulations on the availability of guns to certain people. The Left says (and I agree) that there is room for increased regulation on the margins that won't cramp the lives of law-abiding gun owners.

Why are these forces purposely ignoring the bigger problem, the real problem, of our culture? Because, obviously, they are profiting from the movies and music and television shows and video games and societal divisions that are creating the decay. No wonder they want to avoid that discussion. Seems to me that if gun supporters were smart, they'd give an inch or two and then go after the real problem loud and clear.

Doesn't seem all that complicated. But the gun supporters refuse to give an inch, and they don't see they're being played. The longer this issue remains where it is, the worse off they are.
.

When guns don’t cause the problem, seeking new restrictions won’t solve the problem.

The reason my house got built was because I motivated a group of individuals to do the work. The tools they used did not build the house, the people did.

Take away the motivation and there is no house.

 

[Skull Pilot]

No it's not

70% of all murder in this country occurs in very distinct and small areas of 5% of all the counties in the country.

Yeah, the parts where people ACTUALLY LIVE. Amazing, that.

Take your objections to Nikolas Cruz ... You have no right to punish me for something he did.
What you are fine with is irrelevant to me, I will not accept your desires to infringe upon my rights any further.

It's simple Joe ... Quit talking in circles ... I understand you and your objections.

Oh, i don't think you understand how completely tired I am of you gun fetishists and your obliviousness to how much you are fucking up this society for the rest of us. I'm tired of walking through multiple security checkpoints to get to places.

Absolute bullshit. There are 300,000,000 guns in civilian hands. 100,000,000 people own guns. And we have fewer than 10k murders with guns.

19 guys hijacked some airplanes. Now we make sure we know everyone who gets on an airplane is searched and background checked.

One child died when she was impaled through the head with a lawn dart. We banned the sale of lawn darts.

One jerkwad put cyanide in some medicines. Now every OTC medicine has safety seals.

So, sorry, "only" 11,000 murders (not fewer than 10K like you said) is more than good enough reason to treat guns like any other product that is dangerous. Take it off the market or severely restrict its use.

A very small percentage of the population lives in the areas where murder is concentrated. In fact within the same county where the murder rate is 4 or 5 times the national average there are places where the murder rate is near zero.

As I said we have distinct and well definable and rather small areas where murders are concentrated.

But like I said you don't care because those murders that make up 70% of all murders are young urban minorities killing other young urban minorities

 

[WinterBorn]

No it's not

70% of all murder in this country occurs in very distinct and small areas of 5% of all the counties in the country.

Yeah, the parts where people ACTUALLY LIVE. Amazing, that.

Take your objections to Nikolas Cruz ... You have no right to punish me for something he did.
What you are fine with is irrelevant to me, I will not accept your desires to infringe upon my rights any further.

It's simple Joe ... Quit talking in circles ... I understand you and your objections.

Oh, i don't think you understand how completely tired I am of you gun fetishists and your obliviousness to how much you are fucking up this society for the rest of us. I'm tired of walking through multiple security checkpoints to get to places.

Absolute bullshit. There are 300,000,000 guns in civilian hands. 100,000,000 people own guns. And we have fewer than 10k murders with guns.

19 guys hijacked some airplanes. Now we make sure we know everyone who gets on an airplane is searched and background checked.

One child died when she was impaled through the head with a lawn dart. We banned the sale of lawn darts.

One jerkwad put cyanide in some medicines. Now every OTC medicine has safety seals.

So, sorry, "only" 11,000 murders (not fewer than 10K like you said) is more than good enough reason to treat guns like any other product that is dangerous. Take it off the market or severely restrict its use.

The require background checks to purchase them and have age restrictions. That is enough.

And since you are blaming the guns for the murders, there are an estimated 300,000,000 guns owned by private citizens. I haven't seen the numbers for 2017, so I will agree to use 11,000 as the number of gun related murders. That means 0.004% of the firearms owned by private citizens have been used in a murder. The FBI estimates that privately owned firearms are used +100,000 times per year tol stop or prevent a crime.

 

[WinterBorn]

No it's not

70% of all murder in this country occurs in very distinct and small areas of 5% of all the counties in the country.

Oh, i don't think you understand how completely tired I am of you gun fetishists and your obliviousness to how much you are fucking up this society for the rest of us. I'm tired of walking through multiple security checkpoints to get to places.

Oh, you are tired of it?? Well then, by all means, we should force 100k people to hand in their guns right away. lmao

I don't think you understand how little it matters to me what YOU are tired of.

 

[WinterBorn]

No it's not

70% of all murder in this country occurs in very distinct and small areas of 5% of all the counties in the country.

Yeah, the parts where people ACTUALLY LIVE. Amazing, that.

Take your objections to Nikolas Cruz ... You have no right to punish me for something he did.
What you are fine with is irrelevant to me, I will not accept your desires to infringe upon my rights any further.

It's simple Joe ... Quit talking in circles ... I understand you and your objections.

Oh, i don't think you understand how completely tired I am of you gun fetishists and your obliviousness to how much you are fucking up this society for the rest of us. I'm tired of walking through multiple security checkpoints to get to places.

Absolute bullshit. There are 300,000,000 guns in civilian hands. 100,000,000 people own guns. And we have fewer than 10k murders with guns.

19 guys hijacked some airplanes. Now we make sure we know everyone who gets on an airplane is searched and background checked.

One child died when she was impaled through the head with a lawn dart. We banned the sale of lawn darts.

One jerkwad put cyanide in some medicines. Now every OTC medicine has safety seals.

So, sorry, "only" 11,000 murders (not fewer than 10K like you said) is more than good enough reason to treat guns like any other product that is dangerous. Take it off the market or severely restrict its use.

A very small percentage of the population lives in the areas where murder is concentrated. In fact within the same county where the murder rate is 4 or 5 times the national average there are places where the murder rate is near zero.

As I said we have distinct and well definable and rather small areas where murders are concentrated.

But like I said you don't care because those murders that make up 70% of all murders are young urban minorities killing other young urban minorities

That is why the major focus by the gun control freaks is the exceedingly rare school school shootings and AR15 murders.

 

[JoeB131]

Problem is ... None of your desires are equivalent to nor compliant with legislation.
Keep on being tired, frustrated and disgusted with society ... If that makes you feel any better.

I am not asking you for permission to do anything ... And don't require your approval.
Beat your head against the wall if you think it helps you any.

so what are you going to do when they pass real gun control, and you don't qualify?

 

[JoeB131]

Oh, you are tired of it?? Well then, by all means, we should force 100k people to hand in their guns right away. lmao

I don't think you understand how little it matters to me what YOU are tired of.

Well, except the majority agrees with me and we are all tired of watching kids get dragged out of schools in body bags.

The require background checks to purchase them and have age restrictions. That is enough.

We still have 33,000 gun deaths, so, um, no, it isn't.

And since you are blaming the guns for the murders, there are an estimated 300,000,000 guns owned by private citizens. I haven't seen the numbers for 2017, so I will agree to use 11,000 as the number of gun related murders. That means 0.004% of the firearms owned by private citizens have been used in a murder. The FBI estimates that privately owned firearms are used +100,000 times per year tol stop or prevent a crime.

99.994% of airline passengers didn't hijack an airplane and fly it into a building in 2001.

99.994% of lawn darts didn't impale anyone through the head.

99.994% of customers in drug stores didn't poison the tylanol.

Um... guess what, we put restrictions on all these things to eliminate the risks involved.

This really isn't complicated.

 

[JoeB131]

But like I said you don't care because those murders that make up 70% of all murders are young urban minorities killing other young urban minorities

You are right. We only care when WHITE kids are being shot in schools.

Shame on us.

But guess what, we ban guns, nobody gets killed. It's a win-win for everyone.

 

[jon_berzerk]

The problem is the left is never satisfied, give and inch and they demand another mile. History proves it.

hey they are even coming out and saying it these days

 

[WinterBorn]

Oh, you are tired of it?? Well then, by all means, we should force 100k people to hand in their guns right away. lmao

I don't think you understand how little it matters to me what YOU are tired of.

Well, except the majority agrees with me and we are all tired of watching kids get dragged out of schools in body bags.

The require background checks to purchase them and have age restrictions. That is enough.

We still have 33,000 gun deaths, so, um, no, it isn't.

And since you are blaming the guns for the murders, there are an estimated 300,000,000 guns owned by private citizens. I haven't seen the numbers for 2017, so I will agree to use 11,000 as the number of gun related murders. That means 0.004% of the firearms owned by private citizens have been used in a murder. The FBI estimates that privately owned firearms are used +100,000 times per year tol stop or prevent a crime.

99.994% of airline passengers didn't hijack an airplane and fly it into a building in 2001.

99.994% of lawn darts didn't impale anyone through the head.

99.994% of customers in drug stores didn't poison the tylanol.

Um... guess what, we put restrictions on all these things to eliminate the risks involved.

This really isn't complicated.

2/3 of those are suicides. If you think legislation banning guns will stop that I have a bridge I'd love to sell you.

And if you would like to show me how 10x as many passengers saved a plane from a hijacking, I will entertain your ridiculous comparison.

And if you would like to show me how 10x as many lawn darts saved people from head injuries, I will entertain your ridiculous comparison.

And if you would like to show me how 10x as many customers stopped poisonings, I will entertain your ridiculous comparison.

It really isn't complicated. Guns are not the problem. The people are the problem. Address that.

 

[WinterBorn]

Oh, you are tired of it?? Well then, by all means, we should force 100k people to hand in their guns right away. lmao

I don't think you understand how little it matters to me what YOU are tired of.

Well, except the majority agrees with me and we are all tired of watching kids get dragged out of schools in body bags.
.

Start a movement for a constitutional amendment. You only need 38 state legislatures to approve it.

Good luck.

BTW, the school mass shootings only account for less than 1% of gun murders. When you compare that to the 100,000 times guns are used to stop or prevent a crime, it makes it clear where the dangers lie. And if the medical professionals who knew the shooters were crazy and dangerous would be held responsible for failing to report them to the background check system, far fewer would have been armed. But that is against what you want, isn't it?

 

[JoeB131]

2/3 of those are suicides. If you think legislation banning guns will stop that I have a bridge I'd love to sell you.

Here's the thing. Suicide by gun is 99% fatal. Suicide by other methods is less effective. Once someone has failed in a suicide attempt, they usually don't try again. So, um, yeah, banning guns will reduce the suicide rate. Some won't try, some will fail and get help they need. Some will probably succeed.

And if you would like to show me how 10x as many passengers saved a plane from a hijacking, I will entertain your ridiculous comparison.

And if you would like to show me how 10x as many lawn darts saved people from head injuries, I will entertain your ridiculous comparison.

And if you would like to show me how 10x as many customers stopped poisonings, I will entertain your ridiculous comparison.

DGU's are a myth. The very fact you guys throw out such wild numbers on them tell me they can't really be quantified.

It really isn't complicated. Guns are not the problem. The people are the problem. Address that.

People are jerks. Jerks with guns do horrible things. Jerks without guns can't.

This isn't complicated. The rest of the world has figured this out.

Which is why Japan has 4 Gun homicides a year and we have 11,000.

 

[JoeB131]

Start a movement for a constitutional amendment. You only need 38 state legislatures to approve it.

Good luck.

don't need to go that far.

All sorts of ways we can cost the gun industry money. And when they aren't making money anymore, they suddenly won't care about your "Second Amendment".

Here's my short list.

1) Repeal the goofy law that immunizes them from lawsuits, and let the lawsuits fly.

2) Use the power of the purse. If a gun company engages in irresponsible behavior, then it is no longer eligible to sell to government agencies. Since government agencies buy 40% of guns and ammo, that's a mighty big incentive.

3) Put pressure on retailers and other corporations to stop promoting the gun culture. Walmart and Dicks are already curtailing their gun sales. We need more of that.

4) Change local zoning laws to put gun ranges and gun stores out of business.

See how that works, buddy.

BTW, the school mass shootings only account for less than 1% of gun murders. When you compare that to the 100,000 times guns are used to stop or prevent a crime, it makes it clear where the dangers lie.

Except it's nowhere near that. ANd frankly, just give the guy your wallet, for christ's sake.

"Too bad about them kids, but I scared off that guy who wanted my wide-screen".

And if the medical professionals who knew the shooters were crazy and dangerous would be held responsible for failing to report them to the background check system, far fewer would have been armed. But that is against what you want, isn't it?

Again, when your doctor starts reporting you to the government, people will stop seeing doctors. So, um, yeah, that's not what I'd like to see.

Look, I know this is the NRA Handbook. When you have a mass shooting, deflect from EVERYTHING else but the fact that a very bad person was able to get a gun that he had no business having.

But I think it's wearing a little thin... and as I've said, big corporations are kind of getting tired of turning their workplaces into armed camps because they can't tell whose going to come in iwth a gun today.

 

[WinterBorn]

2/3 of those are suicides. If you think legislation banning guns will stop that I have a bridge I'd love to sell you.

Here's the thing. Suicide by gun is 99% fatal. Suicide by other methods is less effective. Once someone has failed in a suicide attempt, they usually don't try again. So, um, yeah, banning guns will reduce the suicide rate. Some won't try, some will fail and get help they need. Some will probably succeed.

And if you would like to show me how 10x as many passengers saved a plane from a hijacking, I will entertain your ridiculous comparison.

And if you would like to show me how 10x as many lawn darts saved people from head injuries, I will entertain your ridiculous comparison.

And if you would like to show me how 10x as many customers stopped poisonings, I will entertain your ridiculous comparison.

DGU's are a myth. The very fact you guys throw out such wild numbers on them tell me they can't really be quantified.

It really isn't complicated. Guns are not the problem. The people are the problem. Address that.

People are jerks. Jerks with guns do horrible things. Jerks without guns can't.

This isn't complicated. The rest of the world has figured this out.

Which is why Japan has 4 Gun homicides a year and we have 11,000.

If someone truly wants to die they use a gun. If someone truly wants to die, not having a gun isn't going to stop them. There have been over 30,000 suicides in Japan for the 12th straight year. Somehow, even without guns they manage to commit far more suicides than Americans.

The DGU numbers I use are the estimates by the FBI. Far from being a myth, they are based on numbers gathered from the entire nation by the biggest law enforcement organization in the country. The number I use is also far smaller than estimates by other reputable organizations.

As for the idea that jerks without guns cannot commit murders, that is laughable. Between 2010 and 2015 there were 23,898 murders in which a weapon other than a gun was used. That is 31% of the murders in which a weapon was used. (FBI Stats). Add to that people use guns to stop or prevent crimes and there is ample proof you are talking out your ass.

 

[WinterBorn]

Start a movement for a constitutional amendment. You only need 38 state legislatures to approve it.

Good luck.

don't need to go that far.

All sorts of ways we can cost the gun industry money. And when they aren't making money anymore, they suddenly won't care about your "Second Amendment".

Here's my short list.

1) Repeal the goofy law that immunizes them from lawsuits, and let the lawsuits fly.

2) Use the power of the purse. If a gun company engages in irresponsible behavior, then it is no longer eligible to sell to government agencies. Since government agencies buy 40% of guns and ammo, that's a mighty big incentive.

3) Put pressure on retailers and other corporations to stop promoting the gun culture. Walmart and Dicks are already curtailing their gun sales. We need more of that.

4) Change local zoning laws to put gun ranges and gun stores out of business.

See how that works, buddy.

BTW, the school mass shootings only account for less than 1% of gun murders. When you compare that to the 100,000 times guns are used to stop or prevent a crime, it makes it clear where the dangers lie.

Except it's nowhere near that. ANd frankly, just give the guy your wallet, for christ's sake.

"Too bad about them kids, but I scared off that guy who wanted my wide-screen".

And if the medical professionals who knew the shooters were crazy and dangerous would be held responsible for failing to report them to the background check system, far fewer would have been armed. But that is against what you want, isn't it?

Again, when your doctor starts reporting you to the government, people will stop seeing doctors. So, um, yeah, that's not what I'd like to see.

Look, I know this is the NRA Handbook. When you have a mass shooting, deflect from EVERYTHING else but the fact that a very bad person was able to get a gun that he had no business having.

But I think it's wearing a little thin... and as I've said, big corporations are kind of getting tired of turning their workplaces into armed camps because they can't tell whose going to come in iwth a gun today.

Too bad you don't get what you want, but the sanctity of my home is worth protecting.

If a doctor knows someone is dangerous, they are required by law to report it. That you want the doctors to get a free pass when they KNEW the person was dangerous shows you are irrational.

You want to stop the crazies from getting guns, but you want to protect the medical professions who KNEW they were dangerous from prosecution by taking away the constitutional rights of the 99% of gun owners who have not killed anyone? Yeah, that is sound logic.

 

[JoeB131]

If someone truly wants to die they use a gun. If someone truly wants to die, not having a gun isn't going to stop them. There have been over 30,000 suicides in Japan for the 12th straight year. Somehow, even without guns they manage to commit far more suicides than Americans.

Their culture considers suicide to be honorable... ours doesn't.

The DGU numbers I use are the estimates by the FBI. Far from being a myth, they are based on numbers gathered from the entire nation by the biggest law enforcement organization in the country. The number I use is also far smaller than estimates by other reputable organizations.

Actually, the FBI number I saw was 46,000. But even that number is dubious. YOu know why? Because the SAME FBI claims that only 200 homicides were guns used by civilians in acts of self defense. So you'd have to believe that with all their talk about how bad they want to shoot them a bad guy, you've had 46,000 or 100,000 or a million gun nuts with a darkie... er bad guy in their sites, and they only shoot him one out of 1000 times.

It's just doesn't pass the laugh test.

As for the idea that jerks without guns cannot commit murders, that is laughable. Between 2010 and 2015 there were 23,898 murders in which a weapon other than a gun was used. That is 31% of the murders in which a weapon was used. (FBI Stats). Add to that people use guns to stop or prevent crimes and there is ample proof you are talking out your ass.

Again, the rest of the world doesn't have these problems. Also, most murders involve a weapon, a lot more than 31%.

 

[Pop23]

Oh, you are tired of it?? Well then, by all means, we should force 100k people to hand in their guns right away. lmao

I don't think you understand how little it matters to me what YOU are tired of.

Well, except the majority agrees with me and we are all tired of watching kids get dragged out of schools in body bags.

The require background checks to purchase them and have age restrictions. That is enough.

We still have 33,000 gun deaths, so, um, no, it isn't.

And since you are blaming the guns for the murders, there are an estimated 300,000,000 guns owned by private citizens. I haven't seen the numbers for 2017, so I will agree to use 11,000 as the number of gun related murders. That means 0.004% of the firearms owned by private citizens have been used in a murder. The FBI estimates that privately owned firearms are used +100,000 times per year tol stop or prevent a crime.

99.994% of airline passengers didn't hijack an airplane and fly it into a building in 2001.

99.994% of lawn darts didn't impale anyone through the head.

99.994% of customers in drug stores didn't poison the tylanol.

Um... guess what, we put restrictions on all these things to eliminate the risks involved.

This really isn't complicated.

So, your logic is obviously that cars, trucks, alcohol, bathtubs, pools, butter knives require bans?

You understand how nuts that sounds, right?