Gun Rights for those 17 - 21

[Humorme]

If you are between the ages of 17 - 21 and are following all these gun control threads, there is something I would like you to consider. This isn't a debate, it's a political / legal reality so bear with me.

All of these retail establishments along with the president have decided that until you're 21 you should not own a firearm. What strikes me as odd here is that at 17 you can sign up and go into the military and defend this country, but it's another FOUR YEARS before the government thinks you ought to be able to defend your own life.

If you don't like that, you should urge all those in your age group to boycott the military until Uncle Scam gets his head out of his ..........

Virtually every election cycle when Republicans gain any power, the media and the Democrats sensationalize someone else's misery in order to sell gun control and force the Republicans to sign major gun legislation that ultimately accomplishes NOTHING.

* Under Reagan, he signed a bill to outlaw the future manufacture of fully autos for civilian use - and NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON IN AMERICA HAD DIED FROM A BULLET FIRED FROM A LEGAL FULL AUTO.
* Behind him was George Bush who banned the importation of foreign made semi-automatic firearms
* George W. Bush said he would have extended the AWB put into place by Clinton, but Congress did not give him that luxury
* Today a nitwit, double talking traitor has promised the Democrats the sun, the moon and the stars on the gun control issue - even advocating circumventing Due Process do it!!!

Every time there is a catastrophe, the Ds and Rs do their song and dance routine over gun control and every time it ends with the Ds getting compromises and more gun control. The problem is, IT DON'T SAVE LIVES.

None of the pabulum puking political propaganda prostitutes from EITHER side has informed you that IF the current laws had been followed, Adam Lanza (who committed the Sandy Hook murders) along with Nickolas Cruz would have been stopped BEFORE the carnage began. The laws were in place, but the cops didn't do their job; the county school system didn't do its job; the FBI didn't do their job. And yet NOBODY with the county faces accountability, the cop who turned tail and ran faces no accountability (Hell he gets to retire and draw a pension); the FBI gets off scott free! Why pass more laws if they don't use the current ones to prevent this crap?

Then they single out those between 17 and 21, the NRA, Republicans, conservatives and everyone else that IS NOT RESPONSIBLE. It is time for gun owners to go on the offensive and offer ways to address the issue without gun control and those of you 17 - 21 could boycott joining the armed forces until the gun control hysteria stops and the government holds those who allowed the mass shootings to happen be held accountable AND consider the proposals that would reduce gun violence without infringing on our Rights. No point in serving a country that won't serve you, but throw you under the bus instead of admitting what the world should know.

Had the government done their jobs under existing law, those children would still be alive. You should not be held accountable for the government's failure to simply do their job.

Well they banned them having alcohol too.... it's what the US does. These people think they're wise because they're older, and they're not.

The right to keep and drink alcohol... which Amendment is that?

Where's the right to breathe air? Or the right to watch TV too?

When Jefferson penned the Declaration of Independence. It specifically states that:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

A lot can be gleaned from that.

Some Rights are unalienable (literally above the government's jurisdiction.) That is what unalienable means. So, these Rights, given by a Creator (your God, whomever you deem that be) bestows upon you both Liberty and LIFE... and the founders were not shy about the way they felt regarding your Right to defend your life.

Liberty is the ability to do things that do not bring harm to another. Owning a firearm, does not in and of itself bring harm to another human being. Neither does the firearm. However, when you put people on the streets that you KNOW pose a danger to others, you're an idiot. And I'm personally not going to be penalized for the idiocy of politicians that don't want to take nutjobs off the streets and put them into a place where they receive supervised care.

And they also implemented a way of changing the Constitution because they knew things would change.

They didn't have ten school shootings in a month back then.

Again, George Washington answered you:

" If in the opinion of the People, the distribution or modification of the Constitutional powers be in any particular wrong, let it be corrected by an amendment in the way which the Constitution designates. But let there be no change by usurpation; for though this, in one instance, may be the instrument of good, it is the customary weapon by which free governments are destroyed." George Washington Farewell Address 1795

So, the legal, constitutional and proper way to get what you want is to amend the Constitution, NOT turn the courts loose to be your legislator. What's so hard to understand about that?

The things you're bitching about today could have been prevented HAD THE GOVERNMENT DONE THEIR DAMN JOB. They've had the tools, the laws, and the manpower. WTH is keeping them from using it? And what does ANY of that have to do with the OP?

 

[busybee01]

If you are between the ages of 17 - 21 and are following all these gun control threads, there is something I would like you to consider. This isn't a debate, it's a political / legal reality so bear with me.

All of these retail establishments along with the president have decided that until you're 21 you should not own a firearm. What strikes me as odd here is that at 17 you can sign up and go into the military and defend this country, but it's another FOUR YEARS before the government thinks you ought to be able to defend your own life.

If you don't like that, you should urge all those in your age group to boycott the military until Uncle Scam gets his head out of his ..........

Virtually every election cycle when Republicans gain any power, the media and the Democrats sensationalize someone else's misery in order to sell gun control and force the Republicans to sign major gun legislation that ultimately accomplishes NOTHING.

* Under Reagan, he signed a bill to outlaw the future manufacture of fully autos for civilian use - and NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON IN AMERICA HAD DIED FROM A BULLET FIRED FROM A LEGAL FULL AUTO.
* Behind him was George Bush who banned the importation of foreign made semi-automatic firearms
* George W. Bush said he would have extended the AWB put into place by Clinton, but Congress did not give him that luxury
* Today a nitwit, double talking traitor has promised the Democrats the sun, the moon and the stars on the gun control issue - even advocating circumventing Due Process do it!!!

Every time there is a catastrophe, the Ds and Rs do their song and dance routine over gun control and every time it ends with the Ds getting compromises and more gun control. The problem is, IT DON'T SAVE LIVES.

None of the pabulum puking political propaganda prostitutes from EITHER side has informed you that IF the current laws had been followed, Adam Lanza (who committed the Sandy Hook murders) along with Nickolas Cruz would have been stopped BEFORE the carnage began. The laws were in place, but the cops didn't do their job; the county school system didn't do its job; the FBI didn't do their job. And yet NOBODY with the county faces accountability, the cop who turned tail and ran faces no accountability (Hell he gets to retire and draw a pension); the FBI gets off scott free! Why pass more laws if they don't use the current ones to prevent this crap?

Then they single out those between 17 and 21, the NRA, Republicans, conservatives and everyone else that IS NOT RESPONSIBLE. It is time for gun owners to go on the offensive and offer ways to address the issue without gun control and those of you 17 - 21 could boycott joining the armed forces until the gun control hysteria stops and the government holds those who allowed the mass shootings to happen be held accountable AND consider the proposals that would reduce gun violence without infringing on our Rights. No point in serving a country that won't serve you, but throw you under the bus instead of admitting what the world should know.

Had the government done their jobs under existing law, those children would still be alive. You should not be held accountable for the government's failure to simply do their job.

Well they banned them having alcohol too.... it's what the US does. These people think they're wise because they're older, and they're not.

Nobody ever had to defend themselves using alcohol.

What's the point you're trying to make?

Point is it's a bad comparison. Having a gun is a constitutional right, and taking that right away leaving people defenseless is much different than anything else like tobacco or alcohol. The main reason we fight so hard to keep gun rights is self-defense. In spite of my avatar, I'm more a big proponent of self-defense than firearms.

Having a gun can be regulated. I support lifting the age to 21 for owning a rifle.

 

[busybee01]

To me it is despicable to deny Constitutional rights to people otherwise considered adults based upon age discrimination.

If you can kill your child on demand in that age group and you can serve in the military you sure as hell should be afforded your basic Constitutional rights.

The military provides discipline and forces 18 year olds to be mature people. Other 18-21s do not go through that.

 

[Humorme]

If you are between the ages of 17 - 21 and are following all these gun control threads, there is something I would like you to consider. This isn't a debate, it's a political / legal reality so bear with me.

All of these retail establishments along with the president have decided that until you're 21 you should not own a firearm. What strikes me as odd here is that at 17 you can sign up and go into the military and defend this country, but it's another FOUR YEARS before the government thinks you ought to be able to defend your own life.

If you don't like that, you should urge all those in your age group to boycott the military until Uncle Scam gets his head out of his ..........

Virtually every election cycle when Republicans gain any power, the media and the Democrats sensationalize someone else's misery in order to sell gun control and force the Republicans to sign major gun legislation that ultimately accomplishes NOTHING.

* Under Reagan, he signed a bill to outlaw the future manufacture of fully autos for civilian use - and NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON IN AMERICA HAD DIED FROM A BULLET FIRED FROM A LEGAL FULL AUTO.
* Behind him was George Bush who banned the importation of foreign made semi-automatic firearms
* George W. Bush said he would have extended the AWB put into place by Clinton, but Congress did not give him that luxury
* Today a nitwit, double talking traitor has promised the Democrats the sun, the moon and the stars on the gun control issue - even advocating circumventing Due Process do it!!!

Every time there is a catastrophe, the Ds and Rs do their song and dance routine over gun control and every time it ends with the Ds getting compromises and more gun control. The problem is, IT DON'T SAVE LIVES.

None of the pabulum puking political propaganda prostitutes from EITHER side has informed you that IF the current laws had been followed, Adam Lanza (who committed the Sandy Hook murders) along with Nickolas Cruz would have been stopped BEFORE the carnage began. The laws were in place, but the cops didn't do their job; the county school system didn't do its job; the FBI didn't do their job. And yet NOBODY with the county faces accountability, the cop who turned tail and ran faces no accountability (Hell he gets to retire and draw a pension); the FBI gets off scott free! Why pass more laws if they don't use the current ones to prevent this crap?

Then they single out those between 17 and 21, the NRA, Republicans, conservatives and everyone else that IS NOT RESPONSIBLE. It is time for gun owners to go on the offensive and offer ways to address the issue without gun control and those of you 17 - 21 could boycott joining the armed forces until the gun control hysteria stops and the government holds those who allowed the mass shootings to happen be held accountable AND consider the proposals that would reduce gun violence without infringing on our Rights. No point in serving a country that won't serve you, but throw you under the bus instead of admitting what the world should know.

Had the government done their jobs under existing law, those children would still be alive. You should not be held accountable for the government's failure to simply do their job.

I was 59 before I bought a gun, 60 when I sold it and I managed to live all this time without one.

How many of these kids will absolutely need a gun to defend their lives? How many will die? 17 like in Parkland or 26 like in Newtown, 49 like in Orlando, 58 like in Las Vegas?

I'm 61 and only had to use my homeowner's insurance policy once after a burglary.

My neighbor was on tv and swayed me to keep at least one piece around the house:

Video Shows Georgia Woman Exchanging Gunfire With Burglars, Killing 1

She absolutely needed it (though that is NOT a constitutional requirement.)

Again, you need to be honest here. Mass shootings CAN BE curtailed without gun control. And it still don't have jackshit to do with the OP, but thank you for trying to derail it.

 

[Humorme]

If you are between the ages of 17 - 21 and are following all these gun control threads, there is something I would like you to consider. This isn't a debate, it's a political / legal reality so bear with me.

All of these retail establishments along with the president have decided that until you're 21 you should not own a firearm. What strikes me as odd here is that at 17 you can sign up and go into the military and defend this country, but it's another FOUR YEARS before the government thinks you ought to be able to defend your own life.

If you don't like that, you should urge all those in your age group to boycott the military until Uncle Scam gets his head out of his ..........

Virtually every election cycle when Republicans gain any power, the media and the Democrats sensationalize someone else's misery in order to sell gun control and force the Republicans to sign major gun legislation that ultimately accomplishes NOTHING.

* Under Reagan, he signed a bill to outlaw the future manufacture of fully autos for civilian use - and NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON IN AMERICA HAD DIED FROM A BULLET FIRED FROM A LEGAL FULL AUTO.
* Behind him was George Bush who banned the importation of foreign made semi-automatic firearms
* George W. Bush said he would have extended the AWB put into place by Clinton, but Congress did not give him that luxury
* Today a nitwit, double talking traitor has promised the Democrats the sun, the moon and the stars on the gun control issue - even advocating circumventing Due Process do it!!!

Every time there is a catastrophe, the Ds and Rs do their song and dance routine over gun control and every time it ends with the Ds getting compromises and more gun control. The problem is, IT DON'T SAVE LIVES.

None of the pabulum puking political propaganda prostitutes from EITHER side has informed you that IF the current laws had been followed, Adam Lanza (who committed the Sandy Hook murders) along with Nickolas Cruz would have been stopped BEFORE the carnage began. The laws were in place, but the cops didn't do their job; the county school system didn't do its job; the FBI didn't do their job. And yet NOBODY with the county faces accountability, the cop who turned tail and ran faces no accountability (Hell he gets to retire and draw a pension); the FBI gets off scott free! Why pass more laws if they don't use the current ones to prevent this crap?

Then they single out those between 17 and 21, the NRA, Republicans, conservatives and everyone else that IS NOT RESPONSIBLE. It is time for gun owners to go on the offensive and offer ways to address the issue without gun control and those of you 17 - 21 could boycott joining the armed forces until the gun control hysteria stops and the government holds those who allowed the mass shootings to happen be held accountable AND consider the proposals that would reduce gun violence without infringing on our Rights. No point in serving a country that won't serve you, but throw you under the bus instead of admitting what the world should know.

Had the government done their jobs under existing law, those children would still be alive. You should not be held accountable for the government's failure to simply do their job.

Well they banned them having alcohol too.... it's what the US does. These people think they're wise because they're older, and they're not.

Nobody ever had to defend themselves using alcohol.

What's the point you're trying to make?

Point is it's a bad comparison. Having a gun is a constitutional right, and taking that right away leaving people defenseless is much different than anything else like tobacco or alcohol. The main reason we fight so hard to keep gun rights is self-defense. In spite of my avatar, I'm more a big proponent of self-defense than firearms.

Having a gun can be regulated. I support lifting the age to 21 for owning a rifle.

No, unalienable Rights are just that. Why don't you join with me in some real solutions and stay away from thread that are NOT about the topic you are babbling about.

 

[Humorme]

They bitched when Reagan raised the drinking age for much the same reasons....

This time they're asking you to put your life on the line, but then telling your life isn't yours to defend for another four years. So, let the people 21 and over fight for this country.

Two liberals found the above "funny" today. If you are between 17 and 21, would you put YOUR life for that caliber of people

 

[Flash]

To me it is despicable to deny Constitutional rights to people otherwise considered adults based upon age discrimination.

If you can kill your child on demand in that age group and you can serve in the military you sure as hell should be afforded your basic Constitutional rights.

The military provides discipline and forces 18 year olds to be mature people. Other 18-21s do not go through that.

LOL! You have never been in the military have you?

Just when are Moon Bats concerned about responsibility?

How responsible is it for a 19 year old girl to kill her child for the sake of convenience?

 

[jc456]

17-21 aren’t allowed to defend themselves unless they go into the military to a leftist nut job

 

[KeiserC]

If I was 18, I'd be pissed! Sad that future 18 year-olds will now be denied the freedom I had because government failed to do their job.

Why aren't there any suites on the state level... If I was 20 & just made the cut into spec. ops... got wounded obeying 'Uncle Sam's orders' ... just got back from my local poling station...etc. I would be incensed at being on leave State side and not being able to buy a .22 range rifle or pistol etc... (any weapon)

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

If you are between the ages of 17 - 21 and are following all these gun control threads, there is something I would like you to consider. This isn't a debate, it's a political / legal reality so bear with me.

All of these retail establishments along with the president have decided that until you're 21 you should not own a firearm. What strikes me as odd here is that at 17 you can sign up and go into the military and defend this country, but it's another FOUR YEARS before the government thinks you ought to be able to defend your own life.

If you don't like that, you should urge all those in your age group to boycott the military until Uncle Scam gets his head out of his ..........

Virtually every election cycle when Republicans gain any power, the media and the Democrats sensationalize someone else's misery in order to sell gun control and force the Republicans to sign major gun legislation that ultimately accomplishes NOTHING.

* Under Reagan, he signed a bill to outlaw the future manufacture of fully autos for civilian use - and NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON IN AMERICA HAD DIED FROM A BULLET FIRED FROM A LEGAL FULL AUTO.
* Behind him was George Bush who banned the importation of foreign made semi-automatic firearms
* George W. Bush said he would have extended the AWB put into place by Clinton, but Congress did not give him that luxury
* Today a nitwit, double talking traitor has promised the Democrats the sun, the moon and the stars on the gun control issue - even advocating circumventing Due Process do it!!!

Every time there is a catastrophe, the Ds and Rs do their song and dance routine over gun control and every time it ends with the Ds getting compromises and more gun control. The problem is, IT DON'T SAVE LIVES.

None of the pabulum puking political propaganda prostitutes from EITHER side has informed you that IF the current laws had been followed, Adam Lanza (who committed the Sandy Hook murders) along with Nickolas Cruz would have been stopped BEFORE the carnage began. The laws were in place, but the cops didn't do their job; the county school system didn't do its job; the FBI didn't do their job. And yet NOBODY with the county faces accountability, the cop who turned tail and ran faces no accountability (Hell he gets to retire and draw a pension); the FBI gets off scott free! Why pass more laws if they don't use the current ones to prevent this crap?

Then they single out those between 17 and 21, the NRA, Republicans, conservatives and everyone else that IS NOT RESPONSIBLE. It is time for gun owners to go on the offensive and offer ways to address the issue without gun control and those of you 17 - 21 could boycott joining the armed forces until the gun control hysteria stops and the government holds those who allowed the mass shootings to happen be held accountable AND consider the proposals that would reduce gun violence without infringing on our Rights. No point in serving a country that won't serve you, but throw you under the bus instead of admitting what the world should know.

Had the government done their jobs under existing law, those children would still be alive. You should not be held accountable for the government's failure to simply do their job.

Well they banned them having alcohol too.... it's what the US does. These people think they're wise because they're older, and they're not.

The right to keep and drink alcohol... which Amendment is that?

Where's the right to breathe air? Or the right to watch TV too?

When Jefferson penned the Declaration of Independence. It specifically states that:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

A lot can be gleaned from that.

Some Rights are unalienable (literally above the government's jurisdiction.) That is what unalienable means. So, these Rights, given by a Creator (your God, whomever you deem that be) bestows upon you both Liberty and LIFE... and the founders were not shy about the way they felt regarding your Right to defend your life.

Liberty is the ability to do things that do not bring harm to another. Owning a firearm, does not in and of itself bring harm to another human being. Neither does the firearm. However, when you put people on the streets that you KNOW pose a danger to others, you're an idiot. And I'm personally not going to be penalized for the idiocy of politicians that don't want to take nutjobs off the streets and put them into a place where they receive supervised care.

The Declaration of Independence is a political – not legal – document; it has no bearing on Constitutional case law or the rights and liberties it protects.

Constitutional case law does maintain, however, that all acts and measures of government are afforded a presumption of constitutionality until such time as the Supreme Court rules otherwise (US v. Morrison (2000)).

Your ‘issue’ is a non-issue until such time as a state or the Federal government actually prohibits those under 21 from possessing a firearm and they file suit in Federal court to seek relief.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

To me it is despicable to deny Constitutional rights to people otherwise considered adults based upon age discrimination.

If you can kill your child on demand in that age group and you can serve in the military you sure as hell should be afforded your basic Constitutional rights.

The military provides discipline and forces 18 year olds to be mature people. Other 18-21s do not go through that.

Of course they don't. They can even stay on their parents health insurance plan until near the age of 30.

If our military can mature young men, why can't our society?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

If you are between the ages of 17 - 21 and are following all these gun control threads, there is something I would like you to consider. This isn't a debate, it's a political / legal reality so bear with me.

All of these retail establishments along with the president have decided that until you're 21 you should not own a firearm. What strikes me as odd here is that at 17 you can sign up and go into the military and defend this country, but it's another FOUR YEARS before the government thinks you ought to be able to defend your own life.

If you don't like that, you should urge all those in your age group to boycott the military until Uncle Scam gets his head out of his ..........

Virtually every election cycle when Republicans gain any power, the media and the Democrats sensationalize someone else's misery in order to sell gun control and force the Republicans to sign major gun legislation that ultimately accomplishes NOTHING.

* Under Reagan, he signed a bill to outlaw the future manufacture of fully autos for civilian use - and NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON IN AMERICA HAD DIED FROM A BULLET FIRED FROM A LEGAL FULL AUTO.
* Behind him was George Bush who banned the importation of foreign made semi-automatic firearms
* George W. Bush said he would have extended the AWB put into place by Clinton, but Congress did not give him that luxury
* Today a nitwit, double talking traitor has promised the Democrats the sun, the moon and the stars on the gun control issue - even advocating circumventing Due Process do it!!!

Every time there is a catastrophe, the Ds and Rs do their song and dance routine over gun control and every time it ends with the Ds getting compromises and more gun control. The problem is, IT DON'T SAVE LIVES.

None of the pabulum puking political propaganda prostitutes from EITHER side has informed you that IF the current laws had been followed, Adam Lanza (who committed the Sandy Hook murders) along with Nickolas Cruz would have been stopped BEFORE the carnage began. The laws were in place, but the cops didn't do their job; the county school system didn't do its job; the FBI didn't do their job. And yet NOBODY with the county faces accountability, the cop who turned tail and ran faces no accountability (Hell he gets to retire and draw a pension); the FBI gets off scott free! Why pass more laws if they don't use the current ones to prevent this crap?

Then they single out those between 17 and 21, the NRA, Republicans, conservatives and everyone else that IS NOT RESPONSIBLE. It is time for gun owners to go on the offensive and offer ways to address the issue without gun control and those of you 17 - 21 could boycott joining the armed forces until the gun control hysteria stops and the government holds those who allowed the mass shootings to happen be held accountable AND consider the proposals that would reduce gun violence without infringing on our Rights. No point in serving a country that won't serve you, but throw you under the bus instead of admitting what the world should know.

Had the government done their jobs under existing law, those children would still be alive. You should not be held accountable for the government's failure to simply do their job.

Well they banned them having alcohol too.... it's what the US does. These people think they're wise because they're older, and they're not.

Nobody ever had to defend themselves using alcohol.

What's the point you're trying to make?

Point is it's a bad comparison. Having a gun is a constitutional right, and taking that right away leaving people defenseless is much different than anything else like tobacco or alcohol. The main reason we fight so hard to keep gun rights is self-defense. In spite of my avatar, I'm more a big proponent of self-defense than firearms.

Having a gun can be regulated. I support lifting the age to 21 for owning a rifle.

Okay, so if we are now able to put age requirements on Constitutional rights, what would you say if Republicans increased the voting age to 21 too? After all, voting is a huge responsibility just like owning a rifle.

 

[KeiserC]

If you are between the ages of 17 - 21 and are following all these gun control threads, there is something I would like you to consider. This isn't a debate, it's a political / legal reality so bear with me.

All of these retail establishments along with the president have decided that until you're 21 you should not own a firearm. What strikes me as odd here is that at 17 you can sign up and go into the military and defend this country, but it's another FOUR YEARS before the government thinks you ought to be able to defend your own life.

If you don't like that, you should urge all those in your age group to boycott the military until Uncle Scam gets his head out of his ..........

Virtually every election cycle when Republicans gain any power, the media and the Democrats sensationalize someone else's misery in order to sell gun control and force the Republicans to sign major gun legislation that ultimately accomplishes NOTHING.

* Under Reagan, he signed a bill to outlaw the future manufacture of fully autos for civilian use - and NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON IN AMERICA HAD DIED FROM A BULLET FIRED FROM A LEGAL FULL AUTO.
* Behind him was George Bush who banned the importation of foreign made semi-automatic firearms
* George W. Bush said he would have extended the AWB put into place by Clinton, but Congress did not give him that luxury
* Today a nitwit, double talking traitor has promised the Democrats the sun, the moon and the stars on the gun control issue - even advocating circumventing Due Process do it!!!

Every time there is a catastrophe, the Ds and Rs do their song and dance routine over gun control and every time it ends with the Ds getting compromises and more gun control. The problem is, IT DON'T SAVE LIVES.

None of the pabulum puking political propaganda prostitutes from EITHER side has informed you that IF the current laws had been followed, Adam Lanza (who committed the Sandy Hook murders) along with Nickolas Cruz would have been stopped BEFORE the carnage began. The laws were in place, but the cops didn't do their job; the county school system didn't do its job; the FBI didn't do their job. And yet NOBODY with the county faces accountability, the cop who turned tail and ran faces no accountability (Hell he gets to retire and draw a pension); the FBI gets off scott free! Why pass more laws if they don't use the current ones to prevent this crap?

Then they single out those between 17 and 21, the NRA, Republicans, conservatives and everyone else that IS NOT RESPONSIBLE. It is time for gun owners to go on the offensive and offer ways to address the issue without gun control and those of you 17 - 21 could boycott joining the armed forces until the gun control hysteria stops and the government holds those who allowed the mass shootings to happen be held accountable AND consider the proposals that would reduce gun violence without infringing on our Rights. No point in serving a country that won't serve you, but throw you under the bus instead of admitting what the world should know.

Had the government done their jobs under existing law, those children would still be alive. You should not be held accountable for the government's failure to simply do their job.

Well they banned them having alcohol too.... it's what the US does. These people think they're wise because they're older, and they're not.

The right to keep and drink alcohol... which Amendment is that?

Where's the right to breathe air? Or the right to watch TV too?

When Jefferson penned the Declaration of Independence. It specifically states that:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

A lot can be gleaned from that.

Some Rights are unalienable (literally above the government's jurisdiction.) That is what unalienable means. So, these Rights, given by a Creator (your God, whomever you deem that be) bestows upon you both Liberty and LIFE... and the founders were not shy about the way they felt regarding your Right to defend your life.

Liberty is the ability to do things that do not bring harm to another. Owning a firearm, does not in and of itself bring harm to another human being. Neither does the firearm. However, when you put people on the streets that you KNOW pose a danger to others, you're an idiot. And I'm personally not going to be penalized for the idiocy of politicians that don't want to take nutjobs off the streets and put them into a place where they receive supervised care.

The Declaration of Independence is a political – not legal – document; it has no bearing on Constitutional case law or the rights and liberties it protects.

Constitutional case law does maintain, however, that all acts and measures of government are afforded a presumption of constitutionality until such time as the Supreme Court rules otherwise (US v. Morrison (2000)).

Your ‘issue’ is a non-issue until such time as a state or the Federal government actually prohibits those under 21 from possessing a firearm and they file suit in Federal court to seek relief.

Ok Clayton, you hold yourself out to be a bit of a Constitutional / Legal 'opine-er'... not a direct diss... btw. Why can't the 18-20 yo in the < 21 (NO gun purchase states) sue the State gov... and get something with traction going?

 

[2aguy]

If you are between the ages of 17 - 21 and are following all these gun control threads, there is something I would like you to consider. This isn't a debate, it's a political / legal reality so bear with me.

All of these retail establishments along with the president have decided that until you're 21 you should not own a firearm. What strikes me as odd here is that at 17 you can sign up and go into the military and defend this country, but it's another FOUR YEARS before the government thinks you ought to be able to defend your own life.

If you don't like that, you should urge all those in your age group to boycott the military until Uncle Scam gets his head out of his ..........

Virtually every election cycle when Republicans gain any power, the media and the Democrats sensationalize someone else's misery in order to sell gun control and force the Republicans to sign major gun legislation that ultimately accomplishes NOTHING.

* Under Reagan, he signed a bill to outlaw the future manufacture of fully autos for civilian use - and NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON IN AMERICA HAD DIED FROM A BULLET FIRED FROM A LEGAL FULL AUTO.
* Behind him was George Bush who banned the importation of foreign made semi-automatic firearms
* George W. Bush said he would have extended the AWB put into place by Clinton, but Congress did not give him that luxury
* Today a nitwit, double talking traitor has promised the Democrats the sun, the moon and the stars on the gun control issue - even advocating circumventing Due Process do it!!!

Every time there is a catastrophe, the Ds and Rs do their song and dance routine over gun control and every time it ends with the Ds getting compromises and more gun control. The problem is, IT DON'T SAVE LIVES.

None of the pabulum puking political propaganda prostitutes from EITHER side has informed you that IF the current laws had been followed, Adam Lanza (who committed the Sandy Hook murders) along with Nickolas Cruz would have been stopped BEFORE the carnage began. The laws were in place, but the cops didn't do their job; the county school system didn't do its job; the FBI didn't do their job. And yet NOBODY with the county faces accountability, the cop who turned tail and ran faces no accountability (Hell he gets to retire and draw a pension); the FBI gets off scott free! Why pass more laws if they don't use the current ones to prevent this crap?

Then they single out those between 17 and 21, the NRA, Republicans, conservatives and everyone else that IS NOT RESPONSIBLE. It is time for gun owners to go on the offensive and offer ways to address the issue without gun control and those of you 17 - 21 could boycott joining the armed forces until the gun control hysteria stops and the government holds those who allowed the mass shootings to happen be held accountable AND consider the proposals that would reduce gun violence without infringing on our Rights. No point in serving a country that won't serve you, but throw you under the bus instead of admitting what the world should know.

Had the government done their jobs under existing law, those children would still be alive. You should not be held accountable for the government's failure to simply do their job.

I was 59 before I bought a gun, 60 when I sold it and I managed to live all this time without one.

How many of these kids will absolutely need a gun to defend their lives? How many will die? 17 like in Parkland or 26 like in Newtown, 49 like in Orlando, 58 like in Las Vegas?

Or the 1,500,000 Americans who use their guns every year to stop criminals as well as mass shooters......they would disagree with you....you have a charmed life, they have encountered criminals...lucky you.

 

[2aguy]

If you are between the ages of 17 - 21 and are following all these gun control threads, there is something I would like you to consider. This isn't a debate, it's a political / legal reality so bear with me.

All of these retail establishments along with the president have decided that until you're 21 you should not own a firearm. What strikes me as odd here is that at 17 you can sign up and go into the military and defend this country, but it's another FOUR YEARS before the government thinks you ought to be able to defend your own life.

If you don't like that, you should urge all those in your age group to boycott the military until Uncle Scam gets his head out of his ..........

Virtually every election cycle when Republicans gain any power, the media and the Democrats sensationalize someone else's misery in order to sell gun control and force the Republicans to sign major gun legislation that ultimately accomplishes NOTHING.

* Under Reagan, he signed a bill to outlaw the future manufacture of fully autos for civilian use - and NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON IN AMERICA HAD DIED FROM A BULLET FIRED FROM A LEGAL FULL AUTO.
* Behind him was George Bush who banned the importation of foreign made semi-automatic firearms
* George W. Bush said he would have extended the AWB put into place by Clinton, but Congress did not give him that luxury
* Today a nitwit, double talking traitor has promised the Democrats the sun, the moon and the stars on the gun control issue - even advocating circumventing Due Process do it!!!

Every time there is a catastrophe, the Ds and Rs do their song and dance routine over gun control and every time it ends with the Ds getting compromises and more gun control. The problem is, IT DON'T SAVE LIVES.

None of the pabulum puking political propaganda prostitutes from EITHER side has informed you that IF the current laws had been followed, Adam Lanza (who committed the Sandy Hook murders) along with Nickolas Cruz would have been stopped BEFORE the carnage began. The laws were in place, but the cops didn't do their job; the county school system didn't do its job; the FBI didn't do their job. And yet NOBODY with the county faces accountability, the cop who turned tail and ran faces no accountability (Hell he gets to retire and draw a pension); the FBI gets off scott free! Why pass more laws if they don't use the current ones to prevent this crap?

Then they single out those between 17 and 21, the NRA, Republicans, conservatives and everyone else that IS NOT RESPONSIBLE. It is time for gun owners to go on the offensive and offer ways to address the issue without gun control and those of you 17 - 21 could boycott joining the armed forces until the gun control hysteria stops and the government holds those who allowed the mass shootings to happen be held accountable AND consider the proposals that would reduce gun violence without infringing on our Rights. No point in serving a country that won't serve you, but throw you under the bus instead of admitting what the world should know.

Had the government done their jobs under existing law, those children would still be alive. You should not be held accountable for the government's failure to simply do their job.

Well they banned them having alcohol too.... it's what the US does. These people think they're wise because they're older, and they're not.

The right to keep and drink alcohol... which Amendment is that?

Where's the right to breathe air? Or the right to watch TV too?

When Jefferson penned the Declaration of Independence. It specifically states that:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

A lot can be gleaned from that.

Some Rights are unalienable (literally above the government's jurisdiction.) That is what unalienable means. So, these Rights, given by a Creator (your God, whomever you deem that be) bestows upon you both Liberty and LIFE... and the founders were not shy about the way they felt regarding your Right to defend your life.

Liberty is the ability to do things that do not bring harm to another. Owning a firearm, does not in and of itself bring harm to another human being. Neither does the firearm. However, when you put people on the streets that you KNOW pose a danger to others, you're an idiot. And I'm personally not going to be penalized for the idiocy of politicians that don't want to take nutjobs off the streets and put them into a place where they receive supervised care.

And they also implemented a way of changing the Constitution because they knew things would change.

They didn't have ten school shootings in a month back then.

No...they had indians raiding their towns, raping and murdering and burning farms....

 

[2aguy]

Well they banned them having alcohol too.... it's what the US does. These people think they're wise because they're older, and they're not.

Nobody ever had to defend themselves using alcohol.

What's the point you're trying to make?

Point is it's a bad comparison. Having a gun is a constitutional right, and taking that right away leaving people defenseless is much different than anything else like tobacco or alcohol. The main reason we fight so hard to keep gun rights is self-defense. In spite of my avatar, I'm more a big proponent of self-defense than firearms.

Having a gun can be regulated. I support lifting the age to 21 for owning a rifle.

Okay, so if we are now able to put age requirements on Constitutional rights, what would you say if Republicans increased the voting age to 21 too? After all, voting is a huge responsibility just like owning a rifle.

Abortions.......can't have one till you are 21....as left wing nutjobs love to do...let's quote Scalia....from Heller

Let's substitute Abortion....

Like most rights, the Abortion right is not unlimited. It is not a right to kill any baby whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose:

 

[frigidweirdo]

Yes Ray, 17 kids being shot up and killed is fake news. Yes, we get it, you have no morals Ray.

You know when you lie, I'm going to call you out on it, so why do you do it all the time?

First one was a guy shooting up a school bus
Second was someone shot and killed at a university
Third was a pupil shooting someone in a cafeteria at school
Fourth was someone shooting from a truck at school pupils in school
Fifth was in the lobby at a school and two students died


That was January.

Which of these wasn't a school shooting Ray?

According to ABC News:

The organization defines a school shooting as "any time a firearm discharges a live round inside a school building or on a school campus or grounds."

In other words, this count also includes attempted or completed suicides and accidental discharges.

From the Washington Post about the study:

On the afternoon of Jan. 3, a 31-year-old man who had parked outside a Michigan elementary school called police to say he was armed and suicidal. Several hours later, he killed himself. The school, however, had been closedfor seven months. There were no teachers. There were no students.

from Jan. 20, when at 1 a.m. a man was shot at a sorority event on the campus of Wake Forest University. A week later, as a basketball game was being played at a Michigan high school, someone fired several rounds from a gun in the parking lot. No one was injured, and it was past 8 p.m., well after classes had ended for the day, but Everytown still labeled it a school shooting.

Just five of Everytown’s 18 school shootings listed for 2018 happened during school hours and resulted in any physical injury. Three others appeared to be intentional shootings but did not hurt anyone. Two more involved guns — one carried by a school police officer and the other by a licensed peace officer who ran a college club — that were unintentionally fired and, again, led to no injuries. At least seven of Everytown’s 18 shootings took place outside normal school hours.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...1d91fcec3fe_story.html?utm_term=.2452770dd5d9

Fuck off Ray, you're the one who just makes stuff up. You haven't replied to your argument about diversity being the cause of violence, have you?

17 kids got killed in a school. It's not a lie Ray, it's the truth.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yes Ray, 17 kids being shot up and killed is fake news. Yes, we get it, you have no morals Ray.

You know when you lie, I'm going to call you out on it, so why do you do it all the time?

First one was a guy shooting up a school bus
Second was someone shot and killed at a university
Third was a pupil shooting someone in a cafeteria at school
Fourth was someone shooting from a truck at school pupils in school
Fifth was in the lobby at a school and two students died


That was January.

Which of these wasn't a school shooting Ray?

According to ABC News:

The organization defines a school shooting as "any time a firearm discharges a live round inside a school building or on a school campus or grounds."

In other words, this count also includes attempted or completed suicides and accidental discharges.

From the Washington Post about the study:

On the afternoon of Jan. 3, a 31-year-old man who had parked outside a Michigan elementary school called police to say he was armed and suicidal. Several hours later, he killed himself. The school, however, had been closedfor seven months. There were no teachers. There were no students.

from Jan. 20, when at 1 a.m. a man was shot at a sorority event on the campus of Wake Forest University. A week later, as a basketball game was being played at a Michigan high school, someone fired several rounds from a gun in the parking lot. No one was injured, and it was past 8 p.m., well after classes had ended for the day, but Everytown still labeled it a school shooting.

Just five of Everytown’s 18 school shootings listed for 2018 happened during school hours and resulted in any physical injury. Three others appeared to be intentional shootings but did not hurt anyone. Two more involved guns — one carried by a school police officer and the other by a licensed peace officer who ran a college club — that were unintentionally fired and, again, led to no injuries. At least seven of Everytown’s 18 shootings took place outside normal school hours.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...1d91fcec3fe_story.html?utm_term=.2452770dd5d9

Fuck off Ray, you're the one who just makes stuff up. You haven't replied to your argument about diversity being the cause of violence, have you?

17 kids got killed in a school. It's not a lie Ray, it's the truth.

Yes, it is the truth. The lie is you implying that's what I was talking about. I never mentioned the Fla school shooting. I addressed that phony study you quoted from. I never once said the school shooting in Florida was BS. You lied and made it all up.

And I did address diversity. Maybe you just overlooked it because you didn't want to reply. Scroll up and see what I posted before making false accusations against me.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Well they banned them having alcohol too.... it's what the US does. These people think they're wise because they're older, and they're not.

The right to keep and drink alcohol... which Amendment is that?

Where's the right to breathe air? Or the right to watch TV too?

When Jefferson penned the Declaration of Independence. It specifically states that:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

A lot can be gleaned from that.

Some Rights are unalienable (literally above the government's jurisdiction.) That is what unalienable means. So, these Rights, given by a Creator (your God, whomever you deem that be) bestows upon you both Liberty and LIFE... and the founders were not shy about the way they felt regarding your Right to defend your life.

Liberty is the ability to do things that do not bring harm to another. Owning a firearm, does not in and of itself bring harm to another human being. Neither does the firearm. However, when you put people on the streets that you KNOW pose a danger to others, you're an idiot. And I'm personally not going to be penalized for the idiocy of politicians that don't want to take nutjobs off the streets and put them into a place where they receive supervised care.

And they also implemented a way of changing the Constitution because they knew things would change.

They didn't have ten school shootings in a month back then.

Again, George Washington answered you:

" If in the opinion of the People, the distribution or modification of the Constitutional powers be in any particular wrong, let it be corrected by an amendment in the way which the Constitution designates. But let there be no change by usurpation; for though this, in one instance, may be the instrument of good, it is the customary weapon by which free governments are destroyed." George Washington Farewell Address 1795

So, the legal, constitutional and proper way to get what you want is to amend the Constitution, NOT turn the courts loose to be your legislator. What's so hard to understand about that?

The things you're bitching about today could have been prevented HAD THE GOVERNMENT DONE THEIR DAMN JOB. They've had the tools, the laws, and the manpower. WTH is keeping them from using it? And what does ANY of that have to do with the OP?

Listen, I'm not arguing against what the Founding Fathers said.

Times were different back then and they made the Constitution flexible for a reason. That reason was that times would change and the needs of the people would be different.

Back then the US struggled to make an army. Back then dictators were the norm. Back then most people couldn't read or right, and most people didn't have the vote. Different times. Slavery was considered acceptable, it was a part of the US. That doesn't mean the US should have it now, does it?

 

[2aguy]

Yes Ray, 17 kids being shot up and killed is fake news. Yes, we get it, you have no morals Ray.

You know when you lie, I'm going to call you out on it, so why do you do it all the time?

First one was a guy shooting up a school bus
Second was someone shot and killed at a university
Third was a pupil shooting someone in a cafeteria at school
Fourth was someone shooting from a truck at school pupils in school
Fifth was in the lobby at a school and two students died


That was January.

Which of these wasn't a school shooting Ray?

According to ABC News:

The organization defines a school shooting as "any time a firearm discharges a live round inside a school building or on a school campus or grounds."

In other words, this count also includes attempted or completed suicides and accidental discharges.

From the Washington Post about the study:

On the afternoon of Jan. 3, a 31-year-old man who had parked outside a Michigan elementary school called police to say he was armed and suicidal. Several hours later, he killed himself. The school, however, had been closedfor seven months. There were no teachers. There were no students.

from Jan. 20, when at 1 a.m. a man was shot at a sorority event on the campus of Wake Forest University. A week later, as a basketball game was being played at a Michigan high school, someone fired several rounds from a gun in the parking lot. No one was injured, and it was past 8 p.m., well after classes had ended for the day, but Everytown still labeled it a school shooting.

Just five of Everytown’s 18 school shootings listed for 2018 happened during school hours and resulted in any physical injury. Three others appeared to be intentional shootings but did not hurt anyone. Two more involved guns — one carried by a school police officer and the other by a licensed peace officer who ran a college club — that were unintentionally fired and, again, led to no injuries. At least seven of Everytown’s 18 shootings took place outside normal school hours.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...1d91fcec3fe_story.html?utm_term=.2452770dd5d9

Fuck off Ray, you're the one who just makes stuff up. You haven't replied to your argument about diversity being the cause of violence, have you?

17 kids got killed in a school. It's not a lie Ray, it's the truth.

Yes, it is the truth. The lie is you implying that's what I was talking about. I never mentioned the Fla school shooting. I addressed that phony study you quoted from. I never once said the school shooting in Florida was BS. You lied and made it all up.

And I did address diversity. Maybe you just overlooked it because you didn't want to reply. Scroll up and see what I posted before making false accusations against me.

This is why there can be no "compromie" with anti gunners....they won't even tell the truth in simple discussions of these issues....not one of them. I can't remember one anti gunner who ever told the truth about guns and gun issues......

Not one more gun, bullet or magazine.....we fight for all of them now...