Gun control in Hong Kong fails to save this family from gun murder...

[danielpalos]

Gun laws do not reduce murder rates

why not; only illegals commit crime.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Gun laws do not reduce murder rates

why not; only illegals commit crime.

Criminals do not obey gun laws

 

[BULLDOG]

Hong Kong has one of the lowest murder rates in the world
22 murders in 2015

I’ll take that over a second amendment any day


Crime in Hong Kong - Wikipedia

I wish we could have both but it will never happen.
I pick the 2nd. Without it, we dont have much of anything else.

We can have both. Common sense regulation does not deny any rights. Only an idiot would think otherwise.

"common sense" is subjective. What do you think that means?

It means you are grabbing at straws.

I asked a simple question, dog.
What do you think common sense regulation is?

The first step should be universal background checks. This is usually where you say we already have background checks. We don't for private sales. Or you say something about they won't work anyway, or it's just a ruse to register and take away everybody's guns. That's bullshit too.

 

[2aguy]

22 murders a year in Hong Kong
Their gun control is working

Our second amendment gets us 8500 murders each year

No.....why is it that you guys never understand that it is values and culture that prevent murder, not gun control?

It your thread.....you chose to compare us to Hong Kong

Their gun control is working, while a country with a second amendment loses 30,000 a year to gun violence

No...we have 11,004 gun murders.....almost all taking place in democrat voting districts.....and 80% of the victims are criminals, not law abiding citizens.

At the same time, Americans use their legal guns 2.4 million times a year to save lives and to stop violent criminals....can you tell which number is bigger?


The rest are suicides which do not reflect on legal gun ownership....

Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide



There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world. According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.: Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000. By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.

Suicide is a mental health issue. If guns are not available other means are used. Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the Washington Post (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%).

Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the Post article. The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited. Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows: Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).

Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)

Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics. According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the Post’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent. Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S.

You forgot the tale about how Germany was afraid to attack Switzerland

Afraid, no...but with 435,000 armed citizens with military rifles the cost of taking over Switzerland was too high.....the rest of Europe was disarmed, and once their weak militaries were defeated it was easy for the Germans to march their citizens off to the death camps...

 

[2aguy]

I wish we could have both but it will never happen.
I pick the 2nd. Without it, we dont have much of anything else.

We can have both. Common sense regulation does not deny any rights. Only an idiot would think otherwise.

"common sense" is subjective. What do you think that means?

It means you are grabbing at straws.

I asked a simple question, dog.
What do you think common sense regulation is?

The first step should be universal background checks. This is usually where you say we already have background checks. We don't for private sales. Or you say something about they won't work anyway, or it's just a ruse to register and take away everybody's guns. That's bullshit too.

Universal background checks are just another way to get gun registration.....which is the actual goal, since they don't stop criminals or mass shooters...

Gun Control Won't Stop Crime

“Universal” Background Checks
Part of the genius of the Bloomberg gun control system is how it creates prohibitions indirectly. Bloomberg’s so-called “universal” background check scheme is a prime example. These bills are never just about having background checks on the private sales of firearms. That aspect is the part that the public is told about. Yet when you read the Bloomberg laws, you find that checks on private sales are the tip of a very large iceberg of gun prohibition.

First, the bills criminalize a vast amount of innocent activity. Suppose you are an nra Certified Instructor teaching an introductory safety class. Under your supervision, students will handle a variety of unloaded firearms. They will learn how different guns have different safeties, and they will learn the safe way to hand a firearm to another person. But thanks to Bloomberg, these classroom firearm lessons are now illegal in Washington state, unless the class takes place at a shooting range.

It’s now also illegal to lend a gun to your friend, so that you can shoot together at a range on your own property. Or to lend a firearm for a week to your neighbor who is being stalked.

Under the Bloomberg system, gun loans are generally forbidden, unless the gun owner and the borrower both go to a gun store first. The store must process the loan as if the store were selling the gun out of its inventory.

Then, when your friend wants to return your gun to you, both of you must go to the gun store again. This time, the store will process that transaction as if you were buying the gun from the store’s inventory. For both the loan and the return of the gun, you will have to pay whatever fees the store charges, and whatever fees the government might charge. The gun store will have to keep a permanent record of you, your friend and the gun, including the gun’s serial number. Depending on the state or city, the government might also keep a permanent record.

In other words, the “background check” law is really a law to expand gun registration—and registration lists are used for confiscation. Consider New York City. In 1967, violent crime in the city was out of control. So the City Council and Mayor John Lindsay required registration of all long guns. The criminals, obviously, did not comply. Thanks to the 1911 Sullivan Act, New York City already had established registration lists for handgun owners.

Then, in 1991, the City Council decided that many lawfully registered firearms were now illegal “assault weapons.” The New York Police Department used the registration lists to ensure that the guns were either surrendered to the government or moved out of the city. When he was mayor of New York City, Bloomberg did the same, after the “assault weapon” law was expanded to cover any rifle or shotgun with an ammunition capacity greater than five rounds.

In Australia and Great Britain—which are often cited as models for the U.S. to follow—registration lists were used for gun confiscation. In Great Britain, this included all handguns; in Australia, handguns over .38 caliber. Both countries banned all semi-automatic or pump-action long guns.

Most American jurisdictions don’t have a comprehensive gun registration system. But even if your state legislature has outlawed gun registration, firearm stores must keep records. Those records could be harvested for future confiscations. Under the Bloomberg system, the store’s list would include not just the guns that the store actually sold, but all the guns (and their owners) that the store processed, for friends or relatives borrowing guns.

 

[2aguy]

Gun laws do not reduce murder rates

And law abiding people who own and carry guns do not increase the murder rates...

 

[2aguy]

Hong Kong has one of the lowest murder rates in the world
22 murders in 2015

I’ll take that over a second amendment any day


Crime in Hong Kong - Wikipedia

You missed the point, apparently. All the gun control in the world, can't stop someone form getting a gun if they are determined to do so.

And, I think it is safe to assume that many more people have guns in Hong Kong, than just her.


See, you people on the left, routinely claim prohibition failed, because smuggling rings popped up throughout the entire land, and illegally moonshiners popped up throughout the country.

And you are right.

Why can't you see the same is true of guns? Anyone can make a gun. They are not nearly as difficult to make, as you seem to think.

If you had controls all over this country, illegal smithing would be all over the country, and smuggling rings would be operating from coast to coast.

Has banning drugs stopped the cartels operating in Mexico from getting pot and cocain into the US? Nope?

Hey, do you think that if you put in place enough gun laws, that those same Cartels would find a market for smuggled guns?

Yeah. There is no doubt that all the cartels, that already have smuggling chains running up into the entire US, would add a new line of products of smuggled guns.

The solution to our murder problem, is not banning objects, and hoping everyone will run out of ways to kill each other, and then magically embrace peace and love, and start singing songs while holding hands, around camp fires.

The solution is to start reforming morality, and get back to defined evil and good, and a belief in absolute truths.

You missed the point

Just because you can’t stop every murder doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try to stop any. Countries with strict gun control have significantly lower murder rates than second amendment countries. One fifth of our murder rate

The lower murder rates have nothing to do with their gun control laws.....as Britain shows, since they have more gun crime after the ban and confiscation...

Murder is a matter of values and culture.......British criminals, Japanese criminals, citizens in Hong Kong, do not murder people...

 

[Skull Pilot]

Gun laws do not reduce murder rates

And law abiding people who own and carry guns do not increase the murder rates...

exactly as was reported in this Harvard University study

Harvard Study: Gun Control Is Counterproductive

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

This is the conclusion

This Article has reviewed a significant amount of evidence from a wide variety of international sources. Each individual portion of evidence is subject to cavil—at the very least the general objection that the persuasiveness of social scientific evidence cannot remotely approach the persuasiveness of conclusions in the physical sciences. Nevertheless, the bur‐ den of proof rests on the proponents of the more guns equal more death and fewer guns equal less death mantra, espe‐ cially since they argue public policy ought to be based on that mantra.149 To bear that burden would at the very least require showing that a large number of nations with more guns have more death and that nations that have imposed stringent gun controls have achieved substantial reductions in criminal violence (or suicide). But those correlations are not observed when a large number of nations are compared across the world.

 

[rightwinger]

Gun laws do not reduce murder rates

They do throughout the world

 

[Skull Pilot]

Gun laws do not reduce murder rates

They do throughout the world

No they don't

Compare murder rates before and after gun laws have been passed and get back to me

 

[BULLDOG]

We can have both. Common sense regulation does not deny any rights. Only an idiot would think otherwise.

"common sense" is subjective. What do you think that means?

It means you are grabbing at straws.

I asked a simple question, dog.
What do you think common sense regulation is?

The first step should be universal background checks. This is usually where you say we already have background checks. We don't for private sales. Or you say something about they won't work anyway, or it's just a ruse to register and take away everybody's guns. That's bullshit too.

Universal background checks are just another way to get gun registration.....which is the actual goal, since they don't stop criminals or mass shooters...

Gun Control Won't Stop Crime

“Universal” Background Checks
Part of the genius of the Bloomberg gun control system is how it creates prohibitions indirectly. Bloomberg’s so-called “universal” background check scheme is a prime example. These bills are never just about having background checks on the private sales of firearms. That aspect is the part that the public is told about. Yet when you read the Bloomberg laws, you find that checks on private sales are the tip of a very large iceberg of gun prohibition.

First, the bills criminalize a vast amount of innocent activity. Suppose you are an nra Certified Instructor teaching an introductory safety class. Under your supervision, students will handle a variety of unloaded firearms. They will learn how different guns have different safeties, and they will learn the safe way to hand a firearm to another person. But thanks to Bloomberg, these classroom firearm lessons are now illegal in Washington state, unless the class takes place at a shooting range.

It’s now also illegal to lend a gun to your friend, so that you can shoot together at a range on your own property. Or to lend a firearm for a week to your neighbor who is being stalked.

Under the Bloomberg system, gun loans are generally forbidden, unless the gun owner and the borrower both go to a gun store first. The store must process the loan as if the store were selling the gun out of its inventory.

Then, when your friend wants to return your gun to you, both of you must go to the gun store again. This time, the store will process that transaction as if you were buying the gun from the store’s inventory. For both the loan and the return of the gun, you will have to pay whatever fees the store charges, and whatever fees the government might charge. The gun store will have to keep a permanent record of you, your friend and the gun, including the gun’s serial number. Depending on the state or city, the government might also keep a permanent record.

In other words, the “background check” law is really a law to expand gun registration—and registration lists are used for confiscation. Consider New York City. In 1967, violent crime in the city was out of control. So the City Council and Mayor John Lindsay required registration of all long guns. The criminals, obviously, did not comply. Thanks to the 1911 Sullivan Act, New York City already had established registration lists for handgun owners.

Then, in 1991, the City Council decided that many lawfully registered firearms were now illegal “assault weapons.” The New York Police Department used the registration lists to ensure that the guns were either surrendered to the government or moved out of the city. When he was mayor of New York City, Bloomberg did the same, after the “assault weapon” law was expanded to cover any rifle or shotgun with an ammunition capacity greater than five rounds.

In Australia and Great Britain—which are often cited as models for the U.S. to follow—registration lists were used for gun confiscation. In Great Britain, this included all handguns; in Australia, handguns over .38 caliber. Both countries banned all semi-automatic or pump-action long guns.

Most American jurisdictions don’t have a comprehensive gun registration system. But even if your state legislature has outlawed gun registration, firearm stores must keep records. Those records could be harvested for future confiscations. Under the Bloomberg system, the store’s list would include not just the guns that the store actually sold, but all the guns (and their owners) that the store processed, for friends or relatives borrowing guns.

Right on cue., and saying exactly what all gun nuts say.

 

[rightwinger]

In the United States, it is not just the guns, but the gun culture

Conflict resolution through gunfire

 

[Skull Pilot]

In the United States, it is not just the guns, but the gun culture

Conflict resolution through gunfire

only in inner city shit holes

 

[2aguy]

In the United States, it is not just the guns, but the gun culture

Conflict resolution through gunfire

No... the gun culture is 600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense......they aren't the ones shooting people...

The ones shooting people live in democrat voting districts, have long histories of crime and violence and likely should have been in prison when they shot people...but were released by the democrats......even though they are felons with multiple felonies, and gun convictions....

 

[2aguy]

Gun laws do not reduce murder rates

They do throughout the world

No.... the cultures of the criminal class in those countries keeps the murder rate low.... British criminals shoot below the waste when they shoot, they are not interested in committing murder....

 

[BULLDOG]

In the United States, it is not just the guns, but the gun culture

Conflict resolution through gunfire

No... the gun culture is 600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense......they aren't the ones shooting people...

The ones shooting people live in democrat voting districts, have long histories of crime and violence and likely should have been in prison when they shot people...but were released by the democrats......even though they are felons with multiple felonies, and gun convictions....

They all are good guys with guns right up until they kill someone. You thought the shooter in Maryland was a good guy with a gun this morning.

 

[2aguy]

In the United States, it is not just the guns, but the gun culture

Conflict resolution through gunfire

No... the gun culture is 600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense......they aren't the ones shooting people...

The ones shooting people live in democrat voting districts, have long histories of crime and violence and likely should have been in prison when they shot people...but were released by the democrats......even though they are felons with multiple felonies, and gun convictions....

They all are good guys with guns right up until they kill someone. You thought the shooter in Maryland was a good guy with a gun this morning.

Wrong..... you have been shown the truth and you lie..... those who murder are not good guys before they kill...90% of them have long histories of crime and violence and usually one or more felony convictions before they kill...or are caught for killing someone....

The Criminology of Firearms


Why don't gun bans work? Because they rely on voluntary compliance by gun-using criminals. Prohibitionists never see this absurdity because they deceive themselves into thinking that, as Katherine Christoffel has said: "[M]ost shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for home protection."

Christoffel, et al., are utterly wrong. The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.

While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies. Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."

 

[danielpalos]

In the United States, it is not just the guns, but the gun culture

Conflict resolution through gunfire

the right only has fallacy, to engage the general government of the Union.

 

[BULLDOG]

In the United States, it is not just the guns, but the gun culture

Conflict resolution through gunfire

No... the gun culture is 600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense......they aren't the ones shooting people...

The ones shooting people live in democrat voting districts, have long histories of crime and violence and likely should have been in prison when they shot people...but were released by the democrats......even though they are felons with multiple felonies, and gun convictions....

They all are good guys with guns right up until they kill someone. You thought the shooter in Maryland was a good guy with a gun this morning.

Wrong..... you have been shown the truth and you lie..... those who murder are not good guys before they kill...90% of them have long histories of crime and violence and usually one or more felony convictions before they kill...or are caught for killing someone....

The Criminology of Firearms


Why don't gun bans work? Because they rely on voluntary compliance by gun-using criminals. Prohibitionists never see this absurdity because they deceive themselves into thinking that, as Katherine Christoffel has said: "[M]ost shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for home protection."

Christoffel, et al., are utterly wrong. The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.

While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies. Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."

Yet you and the NRA still demand that they have unimpeded access to all the guns they want.

 

[2aguy]

In the United States, it is not just the guns, but the gun culture

Conflict resolution through gunfire

No... the gun culture is 600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense......they aren't the ones shooting people...

The ones shooting people live in democrat voting districts, have long histories of crime and violence and likely should have been in prison when they shot people...but were released by the democrats......even though they are felons with multiple felonies, and gun convictions....

They all are good guys with guns right up until they kill someone. You thought the shooter in Maryland was a good guy with a gun this morning.

Wrong..... you have been shown the truth and you lie..... those who murder are not good guys before they kill...90% of them have long histories of crime and violence and usually one or more felony convictions before they kill...or are caught for killing someone....

The Criminology of Firearms


Why don't gun bans work? Because they rely on voluntary compliance by gun-using criminals. Prohibitionists never see this absurdity because they deceive themselves into thinking that, as Katherine Christoffel has said: "[M]ost shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for home protection."

Christoffel, et al., are utterly wrong. The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.

While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies. Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."

Yet you and the NRA still demand that they have unimpeded access to all the guns they want.

No, actually I and they do not...we are the ones, me and the NRA, calling for locking up violent gun criminals when they use a gun for a crime, rape, robbery or murder....I like about 30 years.... It is democrats who keep letting violent, repeat gun offenders out of jail by mandating shorter prison sentences, letting them out on parole or giving them bail...so they can gun down witnesses...it is the democrats that enable gun criminals to shoot people....while the NRA trains the police and law abiding citizens in the safe use of guns....

You are a moron...but thanks for playing.