Govt is NOT a Business!!

[Avatar4321]

No one has argued that private businesses are free from fraud and abuse. However, those guilty of fraud and abuse are checked by the market. Companies that choose to act fraudulently become unprofitable. Then they either have to reform or go out of business. That's the consequences when people can freely not do business with them. Corrupt businesses are inefficient.

Governments guilty of fraud and abuse, on the other hand, simply steal more power and oppress people. They protect their fraud with violence.

That is precisely why governments are more dangerous than business.

The market currently has employees wages being stagnant for the past 3 decades and what has the market done? Spent money to convince you that that is ok or paid higher wages.

One is reality the other isnt

Stop preventing the market from doing it's job and you will have better wages.

You keep trying to prevent downturns through government action. Downturns are merely correction that occur when businesses engage in fraudulent, corrupt, or inefficient behavior. Let the corrective measures occur. Bailing out failing businesses just allows the corruption and inefficiencies continue to exist.

You complain about business not being held accountable by the market while enacting policies that interfer with markets correcting themselves. Government cannot prevent downturns no matter how hard they try.

The best way to fix the economy is to encourage people to be honest people and allow them to face the consequences of being dishonest ones.

 

[Avatar4321]

government is to serve its clients and is measured by quality of service

business is to and measured by profits

When has government provided quality service?

Profits are generated by providing quality service. If you don't like the service or products you receive, you are far less likely to continue patronizing that company.

 

[Avatar4321]

No one has argued that private businesses are free from fraud and abuse. However, those guilty of fraud and abuse are checked by the market. Companies that choose to act fraudulently become unprofitable. Then they either have to reform or go out of business. That's the consequences when people can freely not do business with them. Corrupt businesses are inefficient.

Governments guilty of fraud and abuse, on the other hand, simply steal more power and oppress people. They protect their fraud with violence.

That is precisely why governments are more dangerous than business.

The market currently has employees wages being stagnant for the past 3 decades and what has the market done? Spent money to convince you that that is ok or paid higher wages.

One is reality the other isnt

What does this have to do with fraud?

It demonstrates that he is fraudulently acting as if he understands economics.

 

[dblack]

Why does the right think that private business is free from fraud and abuse? One of the biggest arguments against govt is fraud and abuse and correct me if I'm wrong but there isnt one thing on earth free from either one of those.

The Right thinks that because someone was a successful business man or woman they can run government. Why? Govt is there to make a profit.

No, it's not. And I, for one, agree wholeheartedly that government should not be 'run like a business'. Irks me everytime someone says that.

Well if the idea is to turn a profit, then it is like a business. Isn't it?

The idea (of government) isn't to turn a profit.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

government is to serve its clients and is measured by quality of service

business is to and measured by profits

When has government provided quality service?

Profits are generated by providing quality service. If you don't like the service or products you receive, you are far less likely to continue patronizing that company.

Fakey must have never been to the DMV.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

No, it's not. And I, for one, agree wholeheartedly that government should not be 'run like a business'. Irks me everytime someone says that.

Well if the idea is to turn a profit, then it is like a business. Isn't it?

The idea (of government) isn't to turn a profit.

Funny, you wholeheartedly agreed with CC and he said government should make a profit.

So it is your claim that government should lose money?

 

[dblack]

No one wants the federal government to be run exactly like a business, but if it were run more like a business then maybe we wouldn't have these huge deficits. Hence it would be good to make more people with business experience making decisions. Business experience is a plus. Much better than community organizing experience.

Business can run at a deficit, actually, albeit not indefinitely. In any case, I still disagree. There isn't much about the way a business runs that applies to government, where justice and principle should take precedence over financial concerns. There's a wide range of business practices that are wholly inappropriate for government to adopt. It's not just the profit motive that makes business such a different enterprise - although that does drive many of the other differences.

In my view, many of the problems of our government today can be attributed to trying to run it like a business.

 

[Rocko]

No one wants the federal government to be run exactly like a business, but if it were run more like a business then maybe we wouldn't have these huge deficits. Hence it would be good to make more people with business experience making decisions. Business experience is a plus. Much better than community organizing experience.

Business can run at a deficit, actually, albeit not indefinitely. In any case, I still disagree. There isn't much about the way a business runs that applies to government, where justice and principle should take precedence over financial concerns. There's a wide range of business practices that are wholly inappropriate for government to adopt. It's not just the profit motive that makes business such a different enterprise - although that does drive many of the other differences.

In my view, many of the problems of our government today can be attributed to trying to run it like a business.

Can you provide us some examples of the problems we've created by trying to run government like a business?

 

[Darkwind]

No one wants the federal government to be run exactly like a business, but if it were run more like a business then maybe we wouldn't have these huge deficits. Hence it would be good to make more people with business experience making decisions. Business experience is a plus. Much better than community organizing experience.

Business can run at a deficit, actually, albeit not indefinitely. In any case, I still disagree. There isn't much about the way a business runs that applies to government, where justice and principle should take precedence over financial concerns. There's a wide range of business practices that are wholly inappropriate for government to adopt. It's not just the profit motive that makes business such a different enterprise - although that does drive many of the other differences.

In my view, many of the problems of our government today can be attributed to trying to run it like a business.

I disagree.

Like any business, there are aspects of business that are not directly attributable to the need for profit.

However, like business, government has direct possession of assets, people, processes, and support that very much mimics a business. Things like supply chain management, Customer Relations Management, property management, and much more, can be managed exactly as a successful business would manage these kinds of assets. You will find very few businesses that have lost track of millions or billions of dollars in property. This is not just land, but physical property such as computers, desks, cabling, chairs, cars, paper, copiers, etc. No business that did not have an actionable accounting of these assets would be allowed to remain in business long. There are literally hundreds of aspects of government that would benefit from being managed as a business manages things.

 

[dblack]

No one wants the federal government to be run exactly like a business, but if it were run more like a business then maybe we wouldn't have these huge deficits. Hence it would be good to make more people with business experience making decisions. Business experience is a plus. Much better than community organizing experience.

Business can run at a deficit, actually, albeit not indefinitely. In any case, I still disagree. There isn't much about the way a business runs that applies to government, where justice and principle should take precedence over financial concerns. There's a wide range of business practices that are wholly inappropriate for government to adopt. It's not just the profit motive that makes business such a different enterprise - although that does drive many of the other differences.

In my view, many of the problems of our government today can be attributed to trying to run it like a business.

Can you provide us some examples of the problems we've created by trying to run government like a business?

Privatizing services that should not be privatized (like prisons) and taking over services that not be part of government (health insurance) in the name of 'saving taxpayer dollars'. Policies and regulation aimed at 'pumping up' the economy in the name of growing the taxbase. The entire corporatist motif is centered on the idea that society is an enterprise to be 'run' like a business, by government.

 

[ClosedCaption]

.

I'd like to see some links that show anyone claiming that "private business is free from fraud and abuse."

Straw man. Dishonest.

The differences, of course, are that (1) private business cannot tax and government can, and (2) private business doesn't perpetrate its fraud and abuse in the name of helping "the people".

But that won't change your adoration for the federal bureaucracy, I know.

.

No one said it...but what they do say is that Govt has it and private business should replace it. Now if you were the type that needs stuff spelled out for you then no one said it. If you have a brain in your head you would conclude that the objection to govt run anything is the fraud and abuse and when you advocate for a private business to run it either you believe that fraud and abuse doesnt happen in private business or that fraud and abuse in private business is ok.

Only in your partisan mind. You have admitted that the whole premise of your OP was a lie, and we ALL know that no one is saying that business is free of fraud and abuse. Obviously.

LOL...Ok buddy....I see that if someone doesnt say something directly that means nothing is implied. Unless I mention that you wear ass less chaps and like guys with chest hair. I didnt say you were gay directly tho!!

And what you don't/won't understand is that fraud and abuse are only the beginning. Handing more and more authority to the federal bureaucracy takes it away from people and makes them more dependent. Dependency is not good, even worse when it becomes inter-generational.

Dependency on the mail and water has never hurt anyone. Again, you are wrong

For someone who likes to insult the intelligence of others, you certainly allow the obvious to skate right by you, dontcha?

I didnt insult you I'm just saying you are a few crayons short. See? I didnt say explicitly that you are stupid! Since that is the bar you set

And thanks for admitting you were dishonest. Maybe try not to so blatantly lie next time, huh?

Catapult the propaganda....Say dishonest 4 more times and maybe it'll come true Dorothy

 

[JakeStarkey]

Nonsense by the far right.

Service in business is subsumed to increasing the profit margin.

That's why elder care, foster care, private prisons, etc., are so awful.

Government is not business, period.

And business is not concerned at all about quality service particularly if it hurts the profit line.

 

[dblack]

I'd also argue that government has gone astray in accepting the 'customer is always right' motto. Especially in attempting to to establish itself as a provider of needed goods and services. Government has very specific scope and purpose, and the desire to run it 'like a business' has contributed to its expansion.

Also, the 'bottom line' attitude toward budgets, and justifying them, has driven the evolution self-perpetuating bureaucracies, that actually benefit (financially) from NOT solving the problems they were nominally created to address.

 

[Mac1958]

Dependency on the mail and water has never hurt anyone. Again, you are wrong

So the government is just mail and water. That's all you can think of.

Okay, it's clear you're not going to come close to being honest here.

No problem, I'm used to that from hardcore partisan ideologues.

.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Dependency on the mail and water has never hurt anyone. Again, you are wrong

So the government is just mail and water. That's all you can think of.

Okay, it's clear you're not going to come close to being honest here.

No problem, I'm used to that from hardcore partisan ideologues.

.

Wait, but you just said that dependency hurts people now you're saying you forgot to add an asterisk? So what were you referring to about dependency hurting people?

 

[bedowin62]

you're right leftard!! if it was a business it would have went out of business long ago; and it's President would be in jail for racking up record debt

 

[emilynghiem]

Why does the right think that private business is free from fraud and abuse? One of the biggest arguments against govt is fraud and abuse and correct me if I'm wrong but there isnt one thing on earth free from either one of those.

The Right thinks that because someone was a successful business man or woman they can run government. Why? Govt is there to make a profit.

Yes and no.
I agree there are problems, but not the way you said it.

1. Yes they believe problems with businesses can be solved by free market responses,
but in the real world, corporations can manipulate the system and make this unfair.
Abridge due process, right to petition, exploit workers without redressing grievances
because corporations have unequal collective resource and influences without checks.

2. No, the point is NOT to "run govt to make money," but the point is NOT to LOSE money over problems that taxpayers are burdened for without any accountability. No business stays in business by not patching holes or fixing problems causing losses.

Running govt as a business does NOT mean to make profit OFF other people.
It is more like recommending that charities run like a business so that they run EFFICIENTLY and cost-effectively, not spending more or taking on more than they can afford to cover. And fixing problems that otherwise waste resources. It does NOT mean to cut back on serving people, but to find the most cost-effective SUSTAINABLE means of doing so that reduces costs, waste and problems.

3. I believe the solution is to hold corporations, govt, political parties and any collective organization to the same checks and balances to prevent abuses as with the Bill of Rights.
Any collective entity would need protections in place for due process to redress grievances.
I would recommend conflict resolution training or assistance to citizens at all levels of govt.

 

[bedowin62]

you're RIGHT leftard! (accidently of course)

only governments can PRINT MONEY


and blow it by the trillions

 

[bedowin62]

Nonsense by the far right.

Service in business is subsumed to increasing the profit margin.

That's why elder care, foster care, private prisons, etc., are so awful.

Government is not business, period.

And business is not concerned at all about quality service particularly if it hurts the profit line.

tsk tsk such profound left-wing ignorance.

it is exactly the motive for profit that causes businesses to strive for a PRODUCT THAT IS BETTER THAN THE OTHER GUY IS OFFERING

 

[bedowin62]

Nonsense by the far right.

Service in business is subsumed to increasing the profit margin.

That's why elder care, foster care, private prisons, etc., are so awful.

Government is not business, period.

And business is not concerned at all about quality service particularly if it hurts the profit line.

tsk tsk such profound left-wing ignorance.

it is exactly the motive for profit that causes businesses to strive for a PRODUCT THAT IS BETTER THAN THE OTHER GUY IS OFFERING

you're too stupid to realize what you just said. if anything that is the reason the government doesnt function well; it has no competition from other governments. there is no incentive to improve quality