Government vs. The Free Market

[PoliticalChic]

Its supposed to be the referee. It most certainly should not "stay out of it" as corporations turn America into a 3rd world country.

I'm in favor of free speech, you're not: you must be a Liberal.

You must be a fascist. So either you are Exxon or a Corporation or a VP of one or you are a fool. I think you are referring to Citizens United where the Supreme Court basically handed our democracy over to the corporations on a platter. We all know what you guys mean by free speech.

This is why the government should be the referee. Employees Vs. Corporations. Right now the government is bought and paid for by the corporations because of Citizens United, thanks to Bush appointing two right wing loons who agree with you.

Again either you are a corporation or a fool. You can private message me the real answer. Are you rich? Then wake the fuck up dummy. The rich own the GOP. Are you rich or just a racist religious gun nut?

As a courtesy, let me give you some advice.


Try to confine your posts to words you actually understand.


Watch: Communist, socialist, fascist, Liberal, Progressive.....Democrat.

All are fruit of the Big Government tree....all favor the collective over the individual.



Myself....I am conservative in all things except condiments.

My political philosophy is based on individualism, free markets, and limited constitutional government.



QED....the one more closely defined as 'fascist' would be you.






As you have been trained to hate Exxon.....

“Exxon Mobil, in fact, is owned mostly by ordinary Americans. Mutual funds, index funds and pension funds (including union pension funds) own about 52 percent of Exxon Mobil’s shares. Individual shareholders, about two million or so, own almost all the rest. The pooh-bahs who run Exxon own less than 1 percent of the company.” http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/02/business/02every.html



Now mend your ways.

 

[bripat9643]

Perhaps FDR like Hamilton and Washington were trying to make sure business made a profit. Rather than dump milk or produced products in the sewer or sell at a loss Business and farmer had to make money, hence FDR asked business to set up a price system so that a profit could be made. I don't think it had anything to do with pasta, just part of the experiment to get America started out of the Great Depression. You keep trying to connect everything with communism and now fascism and history is not that complicated. Besides FDR is still rated as America's best president, A-one, the big guy, and Bush still rated sixth worst.

Sigh....if only you understood history....

Well, your remediation continues.


1. " ...FDR....to get America started out of the Great Depression."

a. In 1935, the Brookings Institution (left-leaning) delivered a 900-page report on the New Deal and the National Recovery Administration, concluding that “ on the whole it retarded recovery.”
The Real Deal - Society and Culture - AEI

b. Arthur Schlesinger, Jr., liberal New Deal historian wrote in The National Experience, in 1963, “Though the policies of the Hundred Days had ended despair, they had not produce recovery…”

He also wrote honestly about the devastating crash of 1937- in the midst of the “second New Deal” and Roosevelt’s second term. “The collapse in the months after September 1937 was actually more severe than it had been in the first nine months of the depression: national income fell 13 %, payrolls 35 %, durable goods production 50 %, profits 78%

c. "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong … somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises. … I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. … And an enormous debt to boot." Henry Morgenthau, Jr. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.




2. " You keep trying to connect everything with communism and now fascism...."

See, that's what I mean about your lack of understanding.

Fascism is related to communism.....and both are connected to American history due to the efforts of Franklin Roosevelt.

The common denominator is big, overreaching government.




3.Franklin Roosevelt was a megalomaniac.

a. ‘Roosevelt imagined he could fix the world gold price from his bedroom. Morgenthau reported that when he visited Roosevelt on Friday, November 3, he suggested a 10- or 15-cent rise from the previous day, and Roosevelt decided on a 21-cent rise. Morgenthau asked the rationale for 21 cents, and Roosevelt is reported to have replied that “three times seven” is a lucky number. Raymond Moley, who became an opponent of the New Deal after being a part of it, remarked, “Roosevelt gravely marred his image as a responsible statesman, by the early-morning bedside guesses with Morgenthau about what the price of gold was to be ‘that day.’”
http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0906e.asp



BTW....George Kennan said pretty much the same thing about Roosevelt vis-a-vis Stalin.



You should take notes.

Notes on what? Your interpretation of history? FDR setting the price of gold that morning was pretty funny but is well known in history, What do you suppose FDR's purpose was that morning setting the price of gold?

His purpose was to loot billions of dollars from Americans.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Sigh....if only you understood history....

Well, your remediation continues.


1. " ...FDR....to get America started out of the Great Depression."

a. In 1935, the Brookings Institution (left-leaning) delivered a 900-page report on the New Deal and the National Recovery Administration, concluding that “ on the whole it retarded recovery.”
The Real Deal - Society and Culture - AEI

b. Arthur Schlesinger, Jr., liberal New Deal historian wrote in The National Experience, in 1963, “Though the policies of the Hundred Days had ended despair, they had not produce recovery…”

He also wrote honestly about the devastating crash of 1937- in the midst of the “second New Deal” and Roosevelt’s second term. “The collapse in the months after September 1937 was actually more severe than it had been in the first nine months of the depression: national income fell 13 %, payrolls 35 %, durable goods production 50 %, profits 78%

c. "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong … somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises. … I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. … And an enormous debt to boot." Henry Morgenthau, Jr. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.




2. " You keep trying to connect everything with communism and now fascism...."

See, that's what I mean about your lack of understanding.

Fascism is related to communism.....and both are connected to American history due to the efforts of Franklin Roosevelt.

The common denominator is big, overreaching government.




3.Franklin Roosevelt was a megalomaniac.

a. ‘Roosevelt imagined he could fix the world gold price from his bedroom. Morgenthau reported that when he visited Roosevelt on Friday, November 3, he suggested a 10- or 15-cent rise from the previous day, and Roosevelt decided on a 21-cent rise. Morgenthau asked the rationale for 21 cents, and Roosevelt is reported to have replied that “three times seven” is a lucky number. Raymond Moley, who became an opponent of the New Deal after being a part of it, remarked, “Roosevelt gravely marred his image as a responsible statesman, by the early-morning bedside guesses with Morgenthau about what the price of gold was to be ‘that day.’”
http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0906e.asp



BTW....George Kennan said pretty much the same thing about Roosevelt vis-a-vis Stalin.



You should take notes.

Notes on what? Your interpretation of history? FDR setting the price of gold that morning was pretty funny but is well known in history, What do you suppose FDR's purpose was that morning setting the price of gold?

His purpose was to loot billions of dollars from Americans.

I don't believe so.

His reasoning was the same as reggie's: that he could walk on water.

He couldn't imagine that anything he did was wrong, or incorrect, or misguided.....no matter who advised him otherwise.

Here is an example:

In a letter to FDR, dated January 29, 1943, Ambassador to Moskow, William Bullitt, warned Roosevelt about what would happen if he continued pursuing the policies of appeasement toward Stalin that formed the foundation of the American war strategy. He pleaded with FDR not to 'permit our war to prevent Nazi domination of Europe to be turned into a war to establish Soviet domination of Europe.'

He predicted the Soviet annexation of half of Europe; George Kennan identified that letter as the earliest warning of what would be the result of FDR's policies.
"For the President Personal & Secret: Correspondence Between Franklin D. Roosevelt and William C. Bullitt," Orville H. Bullitt, p. 575-590



FDR replied: "Bill, I don't dispute your facts, they are accurate, I don't dispute the logic of your reasoning. I have just had a hunch that Stalin is not that kind of a man. Harry says he's not and that he doesn't want anything in the world but security for his country, and I think that if I give him everything I possibly can and ask nothing from him in return, noblesse oblige, he won't try to annex anything and will work with me for a world of democracy and peace."
William C. Bullitt, "How We Won The War and Lost The Peace," Life Magazine, August 30, 1948, p. 94



Pretty much the definition of a maniac.

 

[bripat9643]

When was that, I must have missed it in my history classes, all I remember are the railroad tycoons who were granted government enforced monopolies.

13. Absolutely.

The railroad-government complex is a fine example: the Interstate Commerce Commission, demanded by railroad magnates, who wanted protection from smaller railroad lines. The first federal regulatory agency, the Interstate Commerce Commission, was set up to regulate railroad freight rates in the 1880s. Soon thereafter, Richard Olney, a prominent railroad lawyer, came to Washington to serve as Grover Cleveland's attorney general, stated in an 1892 letter:

"The Commission . . . is, or can be made, of great use to the railroads. It satisfies the popular clamor for a government supervision of the railroads, at the same time that that supervision is almost entirely nominal. Further, the older such a commission gets to be, the more inclined it will be found to take the business and railroad view of things. . . . The part of wisdom is not to destroy the Commission, but to utilize it." Obama and 'Regulatory Capture' - WSJ.com

So when in American history did we have that free market system?
When did the free market system in America end?
What is a free market system?
What nations today have a free market system?

This is the same old argument Marxists always trot out whenever you point out the superiority of the free market, and the inferiority of socialism. it goes like this:

"There's never been a free market, so you can't claim the free market is superior."

If that's the case, then there's no such thing as a circle, because no one has ever drawn a true circle.

It's an idiotic argument.

 

[bripat9643]

Notes on what? Your interpretation of history? FDR setting the price of gold that morning was pretty funny but is well known in history, What do you suppose FDR's purpose was that morning setting the price of gold?

His purpose was to loot billions of dollars from Americans.

I don't believe so.

His reasoning was the same as reggie's: that he could walk on water.

He couldn't imagine that anything he did was wrong, or incorrect, or misguided.....no matter who advised him otherwise.

Here is an example:

In a letter to FDR, dated January 29, 1943, Ambassador to Moskow, William Bullitt, warned Roosevelt about what would happen if he continued pursuing the policies of appeasement toward Stalin that formed the foundation of the American war strategy. He pleaded with FDR not to 'permit our war to prevent Nazi domination of Europe to be turned into a war to establish Soviet domination of Europe.'

He predicted the Soviet annexation of half of Europe; George Kennan identified that letter as the earliest warning of what would be the result of FDR's policies.
"For the President Personal & Secret: Correspondence Between Franklin D. Roosevelt and William C. Bullitt," Orville H. Bullitt, p. 575-590



FDR replied: "Bill, I don't dispute your facts, they are accurate, I don't dispute the logic of your reasoning. I have just had a hunch that Stalin is not that kind of a man. Harry says he's not and that he doesn't want anything in the world but security for his country, and I think that if I give him everything I possibly can and ask nothing from him in return, noblesse oblige, he won't try to annex anything and will work with me for a world of democracy and peace."
William C. Bullitt, "How We Won The War and Lost The Peace," Life Magazine, August 30, 1948, p. 94



Pretty much the definition of a maniac.

That is the definition of a fool. The Venona cables proved that Harry Hopkins was a Soviet spy.

Now, it may be true that FDR raised the price of gold at the urging of some other nefarious malefactor in his administration, but the bottom line is that the purpose of taking such an action is to loot people of their savings. That's always the point of devaluing a currency.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm in favor of free speech, you're not: you must be a Liberal.

You must be a fascist. So either you are Exxon or a Corporation or a VP of one or you are a fool. I think you are referring to Citizens United where the Supreme Court basically handed our democracy over to the corporations on a platter. We all know what you guys mean by free speech.

This is why the government should be the referee. Employees Vs. Corporations. Right now the government is bought and paid for by the corporations because of Citizens United, thanks to Bush appointing two right wing loons who agree with you.

Again either you are a corporation or a fool. You can private message me the real answer. Are you rich? Then wake the fuck up dummy. The rich own the GOP. Are you rich or just a racist religious gun nut?

As a courtesy, let me give you some advice.


Try to confine your posts to words you actually understand.


Watch: Communist, socialist, fascist, Liberal, Progressive.....Democrat.

All are fruit of the Big Government tree....all favor the collective over the individual.



Myself....I am conservative in all things except condiments.

My political philosophy is based on individualism, free markets, and limited constitutional government.



QED....the one more closely defined as 'fascist' would be you.






As you have been trained to hate Exxon.....

“Exxon Mobil, in fact, is owned mostly by ordinary Americans. Mutual funds, index funds and pension funds (including union pension funds) own about 52 percent of Exxon Mobil’s shares. Individual shareholders, about two million or so, own almost all the rest. The pooh-bahs who run Exxon own less than 1 percent of the company.” http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/02/business/02every.html



Now mend your ways.

No stupid. When corporations rule the government, that is fascism. They only want LESS government so their corporations can take over even more. Take over the prisons, schools, heat, mail, fire department, police, etc. They want to shrink government so they can run this country, not we the people. I don't know who's dumber
a. Conservatives
b. Libertarians
c. Tea Baggers

Here is a great article that explains how and why you are so very much fucking wrong my lady/honey/sweety/sugar tits.

'You Can't Govern if You Don't Believe in Government'

 

[sealybobo]

Sigh....if only you understood history....

Well, your remediation continues.


1. " ...FDR....to get America started out of the Great Depression."

a. In 1935, the Brookings Institution (left-leaning) delivered a 900-page report on the New Deal and the National Recovery Administration, concluding that “ on the whole it retarded recovery.”
The Real Deal - Society and Culture - AEI

b. Arthur Schlesinger, Jr., liberal New Deal historian wrote in The National Experience, in 1963, “Though the policies of the Hundred Days had ended despair, they had not produce recovery…”

He also wrote honestly about the devastating crash of 1937- in the midst of the “second New Deal” and Roosevelt’s second term. “The collapse in the months after September 1937 was actually more severe than it had been in the first nine months of the depression: national income fell 13 %, payrolls 35 %, durable goods production 50 %, profits 78%

c. "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong … somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises. … I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started. … And an enormous debt to boot." Henry Morgenthau, Jr. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.




2. " You keep trying to connect everything with communism and now fascism...."

See, that's what I mean about your lack of understanding.

Fascism is related to communism.....and both are connected to American history due to the efforts of Franklin Roosevelt.

The common denominator is big, overreaching government.




3.Franklin Roosevelt was a megalomaniac.

a. ‘Roosevelt imagined he could fix the world gold price from his bedroom. Morgenthau reported that when he visited Roosevelt on Friday, November 3, he suggested a 10- or 15-cent rise from the previous day, and Roosevelt decided on a 21-cent rise. Morgenthau asked the rationale for 21 cents, and Roosevelt is reported to have replied that “three times seven” is a lucky number. Raymond Moley, who became an opponent of the New Deal after being a part of it, remarked, “Roosevelt gravely marred his image as a responsible statesman, by the early-morning bedside guesses with Morgenthau about what the price of gold was to be ‘that day.’”
http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0906e.asp



BTW....George Kennan said pretty much the same thing about Roosevelt vis-a-vis Stalin.



You should take notes.

Notes on what? Your interpretation of history? FDR setting the price of gold that morning was pretty funny but is well known in history, What do you suppose FDR's purpose was that morning setting the price of gold?

His purpose was to loot billions of dollars from Americans.

The rich called FDR a traitor to his class. FDR was a champion of the little guy. Yet again here is an example of how you can't fucking talk to right wingers because they don't even see in reality.

So you see that FDR looted us but do you see that Bush/Chaney/The GOP/Corporate America fucked us from 2000-2008? They bankrupted the country and their corporations on purpose, moved high paying jobs overseas, renigged on pensions, bankers got rich on the way up and down and the recovery, housing crashed and they were able to buy up houses cheap, etc, blablabla. I could go on and on. Point is, I bet you won't admit the GOP did the Great Recession on purpose, and of fucking course you have revisionist history on the Great Depression, because the same fucking thing happened back then that happened under Bush. People who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it.

You can even go back to one of FDR's fireside chats and in his speech to the American people he explains that corporations are not acting as they should so he had to step in and do the new deal to get Americans/America back to work. So he stimulated the economy and every president in a recession has been allowed to stimulate the economy except Obama. Obama got tea bagged for 6 years so far, and despite it all he's still doing a great fucking job. Not as good if the GOP weren't sabotaging America, but whatever.

Until the dumb poor and middle class people start showing up to vote or stop voting GOP, I guess they get what they deserve. I suspect you guys are all voting outside your financial interests when you vote GOP. You can't possibly be rich enough. How do I know? The rich are doing great. If you are complaining then you are a broke ass.

 

[regent]

13. Absolutely.

The railroad-government complex is a fine example: the Interstate Commerce Commission, demanded by railroad magnates, who wanted protection from smaller railroad lines. The first federal regulatory agency, the Interstate Commerce Commission, was set up to regulate railroad freight rates in the 1880s. Soon thereafter, Richard Olney, a prominent railroad lawyer, came to Washington to serve as Grover Cleveland's attorney general, stated in an 1892 letter:

"The Commission . . . is, or can be made, of great use to the railroads. It satisfies the popular clamor for a government supervision of the railroads, at the same time that that supervision is almost entirely nominal. Further, the older such a commission gets to be, the more inclined it will be found to take the business and railroad view of things. . . . The part of wisdom is not to destroy the Commission, but to utilize it." Obama and 'Regulatory Capture' - WSJ.com

So when in American history did we have that free market system?
When did the free market system in America end?
What is a free market system?
What nations today have a free market system?

This is the same old argument Marxists always trot out whenever you point out the superiority of the free market, and the inferiority of socialism. it goes like this:

"There's never been a free market, so you can't claim the free market is superior."

If that's the case, then there's no such thing as a circle, because no one has ever drawn a true circle.

It's an idiotic argument.

It was a simple question, an economic-historical question, when did the USA have a free market system? If the USA has never had a free market system, why not? And please no more circle stuff, let's keep the discussion on econ and history.