Gov. Jan Brewer's death panel

[NYcarbineer]

Note, he was denied because he had Hep C.

Note to Frankenberry: He wasn't the only one denied, and not every case was a liver transplant to a Hep C sufferer, so,

if we'd all like to be intelligent and mature in this discussion, the Hep C argument that's being made is irrelevant.

 

[geauxtohell]

Tort reform for healthcare is the GOP's 'earmarks' canard, i.e., something that is, as you pointed out, financially insignificant in the big picture but plays well as political grandstanding.

The funniest part of the of the tort reform argument is where they say that if doctors' malpractice insurance rates are lowered, we'll all get cheaper healthcare. Really? Is that really what doctors are fighting for? To get their money back so they can give it to you and me? lol

Furthermore, tort reform has already happened. Most states have capped non-economic (i.e. pain and suffering) damages. I doubt that even the most stringent conservative would want to cap economic damages if they really considered it.

Tort reform is a canard. Like abortion, the GOP knows nothing will ever really happen to it, so it makes an easy campaign issue with absolutely zero teeth. The fact that people still buy this bullshit argument is proof positive that people are completely clueless about the healthcare debate. No wonder "death panals" caught on. As if your private insurance policy wouldn't deny you a life saving treatment if it didn't meet the 5 and 5 rule.

I don't think Doctors are really fighting for anything. Docs love to bitch about malpractice because, aside from the dollars they lose, it's a hassle to be deposed.

However, anyone with half a brain realizes that's not what is driving up healthcare costs.

 

[Political Junky]

It's not when the Hep C the patient has will kill the donor liver.

Then it sounds like "death panels" in the sense Krugman used the term (which is not how Palin used it) are common sense medicine.

How was Palin's usage different? She said death panels were making health care decisions based on economics...which is what Krugman is calling for.

It's what Brewer is calling for, isn't it?

 

[mudwhistle]

Then it sounds like "death panels" in the sense Krugman used the term (which is not how Palin used it) are common sense medicine.

There's a difference between life-saving medicine and useless procedures.

Giving him a new liver while his virus is still active is useless.

Saying that you're too old or not productive enough for a surgery is what the administration is talking about. They'd rather give you a pill and let you die rather then extend out your life 10 years.

So you favor blank check health care for the elderly?
All those hospitals and doctors in south Florida sure do. Why else do they give heart surgery to 90 year old folks there?
How do we pay for it?

I notice that those in favor of death panels want to use 90 year olds as an extreme example. Seriously....regardless of how you rephrase it or reword it...we are talking about the government deciding who lives and who dies according to their criteria.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Then it sounds like "death panels" in the sense Krugman used the term (which is not how Palin used it) are common sense medicine.

How was Palin's usage different? She said death panels were making health care decisions based on economics...which is what Krugman is calling for.

It's what Brewer is calling for, isn't it?

Or put another way, how the hell did Paul Krugman get into this conversation? oh, right, deflectoman weighed in.

It's funny how these so-called death panels went from a talking point to attack Obamacare with to a talking point to defend Brewercare with. Difference being, of course, this really is literally a death panel in the case of Brewercare.

 

[WillowTree]

well just maybe if the us of kkk would allow Mrs. Brewer to get rid of the millions of illegals in her state maybe just maybe should could afford some surgery for AMERICANS. Just maybe. ever thought of it? No I guess you didn't.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Thomas Shaw-Stiffel, MD

"End-stage liver disease (cirrhosis) due to chronic hepatitis C viral (HCV) infection has become the leading indication for liver transplantation (LTx) in the United States. Unfortunately, LTx does not cure HCV, a common misconception. Instead, recurrent HCV infection of the new liver occurs in almost all instances and some form of liver damage is noted histologically (seen under the microscope in a liver biopsy specimen) in the vast majority of cases."

Hepatitis C and Liver Transplantation

I did not know that.

 

[NYcarbineer]

well just maybe if the us of kkk would allow Mrs. Brewer to get rid of the millions of illegals in her state maybe just maybe should could afford some surgery for AMERICANS. Just maybe. ever thought of it? No I guess you didn't.

So do you support Arizona's death panel or not?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Thomas Shaw-Stiffel, MD

"End-stage liver disease (cirrhosis) due to chronic hepatitis C viral (HCV) infection has become the leading indication for liver transplantation (LTx) in the United States. Unfortunately, LTx does not cure HCV, a common misconception. Instead, recurrent HCV infection of the new liver occurs in almost all instances and some form of liver damage is noted histologically (seen under the microscope in a liver biopsy specimen) in the vast majority of cases."

Hepatitis C and Liver Transplantation

I did not know that.

So that justifies the Bureauocrat coming between the Patient and his Doctor, in your opinion. Yes?

 

[NYcarbineer]

well just maybe if the us of kkk would allow Mrs. Brewer to get rid of the millions of illegals in her state maybe just maybe should could afford some surgery for AMERICANS. Just maybe. ever thought of it? No I guess you didn't.

Or, we could stop spending money on healthcare for Iraqis and Afghanis.

 

[Retread Ol' 37]

That's terrible! He should go back to Mexico right away and get the life saving liver transplant he needs.

The article says nothing of his national origins and this story has nothing to do with immigration. You're the dumb fuck of the day. Way to go.

 

[geauxtohell]

Thomas Shaw-Stiffel, MD

"End-stage liver disease (cirrhosis) due to chronic hepatitis C viral (HCV) infection has become the leading indication for liver transplantation (LTx) in the United States. Unfortunately, LTx does not cure HCV, a common misconception. Instead, recurrent HCV infection of the new liver occurs in almost all instances and some form of liver damage is noted histologically (seen under the microscope in a liver biopsy specimen) in the vast majority of cases."

Hepatitis C and Liver Transplantation

I did not know that.

Obviously, HepC being a bloodborne pathogen isn't going to be cured by a liver transplant. Doctors know that. Patient's should as well. What a liver transplant would do, is give this patient 10-20 more years of life and possibly more if the HCV was responsive to interferon treatment. Transplants aren't always done as a "cure". Often times they are done to prolong life.

More importantly: HCV positive patients routinely get liver transplants. So having Hep C is not an automatic bar for transplant.

 

[daveman]

Then it sounds like "death panels" in the sense Krugman used the term (which is not how Palin used it) are common sense medicine.

How was Palin's usage different? She said death panels were making health care decisions based on economics...which is what Krugman is calling for.

It's what Brewer is calling for, isn't it?

So you think it's a good idea to give a guy a donor liver when his disease will kill it, too?

 

[geauxtohell]

How was Palin's usage different? She said death panels were making health care decisions based on economics...which is what Krugman is calling for.

It's what Brewer is calling for, isn't it?

So you think it's a good idea to give a guy a donor liver when his disease will kill it, too?

It's not much different than a lot of other transplant scenarios. If you give a person with congestive heart failure a new heart and they already have pulmonary hyptertension (non-reversible), it's eventually going to cause them to go into heart failure again due to resistance. It will buy them several years.

Transplants are not always a curative measure.

 

[geauxtohell]

Furthermore, there is not a lot of liver pathology that is "organic" and not tied to a lifestyle choice (alcohol abuse, IV Drug use/HCV, acetaminophen overdose) as the liver is one of the most regenerative organs in the body and can survive most natural insults.

I can think of a few (alpha-1-antitrypsin deficiency) but most liver failure is going to be linked to a poor decision.

 

[WillowTree]

well just maybe if the us of kkk would allow Mrs. Brewer to get rid of the millions of illegals in her state maybe just maybe should could afford some surgery for AMERICANS. Just maybe. ever thought of it? No I guess you didn't.

So do you support Arizona's death panel or not?

What's not to support? Can she afford it or can she not? Somebody has to pay the money. You pay it or you yourself will be a death panel. Go ahead send in your check.

 

[NYcarbineer]

well just maybe if the us of kkk would allow Mrs. Brewer to get rid of the millions of illegals in her state maybe just maybe should could afford some surgery for AMERICANS. Just maybe. ever thought of it? No I guess you didn't.

So do you support Arizona's death panel or not?

What's not to support? Can she afford it or can she not? Somebody has to pay the money. You pay it or you yourself will be a death panel. Go ahead send in your check.

So were you attacking Obamacare along with the rest of the right because it supposedly had the same kind of rationing, aka death panels, in it??

Careful.

 

[NYcarbineer]

How was Palin's usage different? She said death panels were making health care decisions based on economics...which is what Krugman is calling for.

It's what Brewer is calling for, isn't it?

So you think it's a good idea to give a guy a donor liver when his disease will kill it, too?

If his doctor and he agreed they want to do the procedure, do you want a BUREAUOCRAT stepping in between them and saying no?

 

[daveman]

It's what Brewer is calling for, isn't it?

So you think it's a good idea to give a guy a donor liver when his disease will kill it, too?

If his doctor and he agreed they want to do the procedure, do you want a BUREAUOCRAT stepping in between them and saying no?

So, let me get this straight -- you oppose Brewer doing what you want the Federal government to do.

Is that about it?

 

[WillowTree]

well just maybe if the us of kkk would allow Mrs. Brewer to get rid of the millions of illegals in her state maybe just maybe should could afford some surgery for AMERICANS. Just maybe. ever thought of it? No I guess you didn't.

Or, we could stop spending money on healthcare for Iraqis and Afghanis.

Why should it be an "or"? stop spending on Irawi, Afgani and illegali. then we could afford something for ourselves.