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God's Law In New Testament Moral Judgments
- Thread starter JBeukema
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JBeukema
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AllieBaba said:Neg rep time! Thanks for obliging me to pos rep people just to get to you again!So there is no quote or link.
Thanks for that.
So you recant your earlier claims that I no longer get to rape a virgin and buy her for forty pieces of silver and that Christians no longer are bound to stone unbelievers to death?
*sigh*
That's right, silence anyone who reads your bible! RAWR! KILL THE UNBELIEVERS!! A curse on him who keeps his sword from bloodshed! We must KILL EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES IF FALSE GODS, AS WELL (this was one of the passages levied against Jesus as a false prophet) Their Children shall be dashed to pieces! The righteous will rejoice when he sees the vengeance; he will bathe his feet in the blood of the wicked.
There's no passage in the bible that tells you you can rape a virgin, idiot. It simply gives the punishment for such.
You must buy her for forty pieces of silver, for you have defiled her father's property and he can no longer sell her off to anyone else, for you have humbled her. That's why you have to marry her and can't divorce her, for neither she nor her father can find a buyer for damaged goods.
JBeukema
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oh, you don't think it says you're allowed to rape virgins?Thank you for your admission you were lying about the bible telling you to rape virgins.
From Judges 21
10 So the assembly sent twelve thousand fighting men with instructions to go to Jabesh Gilead and put to the sword those living there, including the women and children. 11 "This is what you are to do," they said. "Kill every male and every woman who is not a virgin." 12 They found among the people living in Jabesh Gilead four hundred young women who had never slept with a man, and they took them to the camp at Shiloh in Canaan. 13 Then the whole assembly sent an offer of peace to the Benjamites at the rock of Rimmon. 14 So the Benjamites returned at that time and were given the women of Jabesh Gilead who had been spared. But there were not enough for all of them.
15 The people grieved for Benjamin, because the LORD had made a gap in the tribes of Israel. 16 And the elders of the assembly said, "With the women of Benjamin destroyed, how shall we provide wives for the men who are left? 17 The Benjamite survivors must have heirs," they said, "so that a tribe of Israel will not be wiped out. 18 We can't give them our daughters as wives, since we Israelites have taken this oath: 'Cursed be anyone who gives a wife to a Benjamite.' 19 But look, there is the annual festival of the LORD in Shiloh, to the north of Bethel, and east of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem, and to the south of Lebonah."
20 So they instructed the Benjamites, saying, "Go and hide in the vineyards 21 and watch. When the girls of Shiloh come out to join in the dancing, then rush from the vineyards and each of you seize a wife from the girls of Shiloh and go to the land of Benjamin. 22 When their fathers or brothers complain to us, we will say to them, 'Do us a kindness by helping them, because we did not get wives for them during the war, and you are innocent, since you did not give your daughters to them.' "
23 So that is what the Benjamites did. While the girls were dancing, each man caught one and carried her off to be his wife. Then they returned to their inheritance and rebuilt the towns and settled in them.
15 "Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
12Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;
13And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.
14And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her.
15 The people grieved for Benjamin, because the LORD had made a gap in the tribes of Israel. 16 And the elders of the assembly said, "With the women of Benjamin destroyed, how shall we provide wives for the men who are left? 17 The Benjamite survivors must have heirs," they said, "so that a tribe of Israel will not be wiped out. 18 We can't give them our daughters as wives, since we Israelites have taken this oath: 'Cursed be anyone who gives a wife to a Benjamite.' 19 But look, there is the annual festival of the LORD in Shiloh, to the north of Bethel, and east of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem, and to the south of Lebonah."
20 So they instructed the Benjamites, saying, "Go and hide in the vineyards 21 and watch. When the girls of Shiloh come out to join in the dancing, then rush from the vineyards and each of you seize a wife from the girls of Shiloh and go to the land of Benjamin. 22 When their fathers or brothers complain to us, we will say to them, 'Do us a kindness by helping them, because we did not get wives for them during the war, and you are innocent, since you did not give your daughters to them.' "
23 So that is what the Benjamites did. While the girls were dancing, each man caught one and carried her off to be his wife. Then they returned to their inheritance and rebuilt the towns and settled in them.
Numbers 31
9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho. [a]
13 Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the armythe commanders of thousands and commanders of hundredswho returned from the battle. 15 "Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
Remember, these are the missions upon which god sent them, for which they were rewarded by God for their actions, and their actions are to be the shining examples of righteousness in the LORD
Deuteronomy 20
Deuteronomy 20
10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies.
Deuteronomy 21
10When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive,
11And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; 12Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;
13And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.
14And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her.
Judges 5
30'Have they not found and(A) divided the spoil?
A womb or two for every man;
spoil of dyed materials for Sisera,
spoil of dyed materials embroidered,
two pieces of dyed work embroidered for the neck as spoil?'
A womb or two for every man;
spoil of dyed materials for Sisera,
spoil of dyed materials embroidered,
two pieces of dyed work embroidered for the neck as spoil?'
Kalam
Senior Member
- Mar 5, 2009
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That's right, silence anyone who reads your bible! RAWR! KILL THE UNBELIEVERS!! A curse on him who keeps his sword from bloodshed! We must KILL EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES IF FALSE GODS, AS WELL (this was one of the passages levied against Jesus as a false prophet) Their Children shall be dashed to pieces! The righteous will rejoice when he sees the vengeance; he will bathe his feet in the blood of the wicked.
I'd be interested in seeing a Christian provide some sort of explanation or justification for these verses.
How about one of those Christians who has attempted to criticize Qur'anic passages that aren't nearly as deplorable as these?
JBeukema
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I'd be interested in seeing a Christian provide some sort of explanation or justification for these verses.
How about one of those Christians who has attempted to criticize Qur'anic passages that aren't nearly as deplorable as these?
religion and cognitive dissidence
Last edited:
I'd be interested in seeing a Christian provide some sort of explanation or justification for these verses.
How about one of those Christians who has attempted to criticize Qur'anic passages that aren't nearly as deplorable as these?
religion and cognitive dissidence
Unless you and your anti-Bible buddies want to do a real study of the Bible, it is a waste to try to explain any verses to you. Fact is, there is an answer, and the scriptures specifically say that the fool will not listen.
Do the study, prove how the verses actually apply. I dare you.
Oscar Wao
Victory is Mine
BTW, this is oft a misinterpreted situation.a disobedient child
For a "rebellious" child, they wouldn't get stoned for a mere "I'm not going to clean my room!"
The "rebellion" in this instance, I believe, is more of a covenental disobedience. In other words, straying away from the principles you're being raised on. Sure, continual disrespect/disobedience (like "cleaning my room") might be applied here, too, but "straying away" is the worst kind of rebellion here.
You know? Growing up, I was exposed to a lot of different religions.........Lutheran, Catholic, Episcopalian, Northern Baptist, Southern Baptist, Mormonism and Judaism.
I was beaten over the head repeatedly by all of them except the Jews. Each one told me (using the same Bible I'd used in the previous church), that unless I believed as they did, I would go to hell.
I became a Taoist after that.
But...........after a few years, I'd lost my distaste of Christians, and started to see where they were right. I also ended up meeting a really good friend who studied Judaism. I immediately noticed where Tao and Judaism were very similar (check it out sometime), and started to compare the two.
That led to studying with various programming (Uri Harrel on GLC is GREAT!!!!!), and with a couple of rabbis help, I found out some things..........
When Rome sacked Jerusalem, they took all of the Temple treasures. They also had 70 copies of the Torah made for them, which they took back to Rome. Now, at the time, Rome was a pagan empire, and if they wanted to maintain their authority, they had to make this new religion palatable to the masses (i.e. pagans).
That's why Yeshua's birthday is celebrated December 25, rather than the real date which was somewhere closer to October, they had to coordinate it with the Winter Solstice to get the pagans to accept it.
It's also why Easter is celebrated on the morning of the Spring Solstice rather than 1 week after Passover (which is why He was in Jerusalem in the first place). Last year, the Christians celebrated Easter before Passover. Now..........how can He resurrect Himself when He wasn't even crucified yet? Time travel?
Then there's the problem with the Niecine council which took out many parts of the Bible which should have been left in. By the way........"turn the other cheek" is a misquotation of what Yeshua actually said. He stated "if a person hits you with the back of their hand (which meant to hit a person like they were a slave), turn the other cheek, and tell them to hit you as a free man (which meant that you were able to respond and kick their butts).
Then........let's talk about Martin Luther who was upset at the Catholics for their practices of selling indulgences (among other things). He broke off from the church and formed his own religion, denouncing the Catholics.
After that? Well...........anyone that was pissed about what their church did was free to go and form their own, which is how the Mormons were formed.
Since then? It's been a fracturing of Christianity.
Personally? I think that people would get a lot farther if instead of telling someone where they aren't worshiping in the right way, they should ask what it is about that persons belief system that motivates them to do good, and share what works for them.
Looking for similarities rather than differences will get you a LOT farther.
I was beaten over the head repeatedly by all of them except the Jews. Each one told me (using the same Bible I'd used in the previous church), that unless I believed as they did, I would go to hell.
I became a Taoist after that.
But...........after a few years, I'd lost my distaste of Christians, and started to see where they were right. I also ended up meeting a really good friend who studied Judaism. I immediately noticed where Tao and Judaism were very similar (check it out sometime), and started to compare the two.
That led to studying with various programming (Uri Harrel on GLC is GREAT!!!!!), and with a couple of rabbis help, I found out some things..........
When Rome sacked Jerusalem, they took all of the Temple treasures. They also had 70 copies of the Torah made for them, which they took back to Rome. Now, at the time, Rome was a pagan empire, and if they wanted to maintain their authority, they had to make this new religion palatable to the masses (i.e. pagans).
That's why Yeshua's birthday is celebrated December 25, rather than the real date which was somewhere closer to October, they had to coordinate it with the Winter Solstice to get the pagans to accept it.
It's also why Easter is celebrated on the morning of the Spring Solstice rather than 1 week after Passover (which is why He was in Jerusalem in the first place). Last year, the Christians celebrated Easter before Passover. Now..........how can He resurrect Himself when He wasn't even crucified yet? Time travel?
Then there's the problem with the Niecine council which took out many parts of the Bible which should have been left in. By the way........"turn the other cheek" is a misquotation of what Yeshua actually said. He stated "if a person hits you with the back of their hand (which meant to hit a person like they were a slave), turn the other cheek, and tell them to hit you as a free man (which meant that you were able to respond and kick their butts).
Then........let's talk about Martin Luther who was upset at the Catholics for their practices of selling indulgences (among other things). He broke off from the church and formed his own religion, denouncing the Catholics.
After that? Well...........anyone that was pissed about what their church did was free to go and form their own, which is how the Mormons were formed.
Since then? It's been a fracturing of Christianity.
Personally? I think that people would get a lot farther if instead of telling someone where they aren't worshiping in the right way, they should ask what it is about that persons belief system that motivates them to do good, and share what works for them.
Looking for similarities rather than differences will get you a LOT farther.
Oh yeah...........the current incarnation of Hell is a myth created by the Catholic church and modeled after the Divine Comedy by Dante.
You want to know the real hell? Check the Torah. It's called Geheninom, and, it IS a lake of fire, but, it's not there for you to spend eternity in. It's there to clean your soul of the evil that you did in this life so that you are then able to enter Heaven.
Besides..........eternity means that something has always been here, is here, and will always be here. Humans are NOT ETERNAL! We have a beginning, so therefore, are not eternal.
Besides.........John 3:16 tells us that we can live forever, just not be eternal, so if you can be forever, but not eternal, how in the fuck can you end up being thrown into the lake of fire for eternity?
You want to know the real hell? Check the Torah. It's called Geheninom, and, it IS a lake of fire, but, it's not there for you to spend eternity in. It's there to clean your soul of the evil that you did in this life so that you are then able to enter Heaven.
Besides..........eternity means that something has always been here, is here, and will always be here. Humans are NOT ETERNAL! We have a beginning, so therefore, are not eternal.
Besides.........John 3:16 tells us that we can live forever, just not be eternal, so if you can be forever, but not eternal, how in the fuck can you end up being thrown into the lake of fire for eternity?
Oscar Wao
Victory is Mine
God's "world" (eternal) and our "world" (temporal) are different...hence the "eternity" descriptions of the world of joy and the world of suffering.Oh yeah...........the current incarnation of Hell is a myth created by the Catholic church and modeled after the Divine Comedy by Dante.
You want to know the real hell? Check the Torah. It's called Geheninom, and, it IS a lake of fire, but, it's not there for you to spend eternity in. It's there to clean your soul of the evil that you did in this life so that you are then able to enter Heaven.
Besides..........eternity means that something has always been here, is here, and will always be here. Humans are NOT ETERNAL! We have a beginning, so therefore, are not eternal.
Besides.........John 3:16 tells us that we can live forever, just not be eternal, so if you can be forever, but not eternal, how in the fuck can you end up being thrown into the lake of fire for eternity?
Sorry for my short dumb explanation...
R
rdean
Guest
Abraham invented one single religion. From that religion, came Judaism, Islam and Christianity. This is why they believe in so many of the same things. Their cast of characters show up in each others mystical text.
The truth is all three are primitive desert religions. Americans believe Jesus looks like Jeffery Hunter. Light golden brown hear with sparkling blue eyes in an immaculate, clean white wizard's robe. Considering the area of the world this religion was invented, sadly, Bin Laden in dirty wizard's robes would be more appropriate.
One thing no ever discusses: What would Jesus wear?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bNern0k03U]YouTube - What would Jesus Wear?[/ame]
The truth is all three are primitive desert religions. Americans believe Jesus looks like Jeffery Hunter. Light golden brown hear with sparkling blue eyes in an immaculate, clean white wizard's robe. Considering the area of the world this religion was invented, sadly, Bin Laden in dirty wizard's robes would be more appropriate.
One thing no ever discusses: What would Jesus wear?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bNern0k03U]YouTube - What would Jesus Wear?[/ame]
They were applied in Salem Village, Ipswich, Andover and Salem Town. I think we all know how that worked out.
Do the study, prove how the verses actually apply. I dare you.
Nice dodge, but as I said, do the study if you dare. I have been studying the Bible for over 40 years, and It is clear when you learn how to study that the answers are there.
JBeukema
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Nice evasion, but you've failed to address anything I've presented or address the biblical passages cited. Being as dishonest as any neochristian is, you've refused to address any of the points made and continue to demonstrate the cognitive dissonance referenced earlier.
Kalam
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Unless you and your anti-Bible buddies want to do a real study of the Bible, it is a waste to try to explain any verses to you.
Please, explain the verses. I'm genuinely interested in hearing what you have to say.
ABS, do you keep those posts saved somewhere? I swear I've seen those exact posts before...
Yes. They are kept filed in my belief system. Those experiences are filed under my life.
Anyone who asks what I think about God? I tell them the exact same thing.
JBeukema
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ABS, do you keep those posts saved somewhere? I swear I've seen those exact posts before...
Yes. They are kept filed in my belief system. Those experiences are filed under my life.
Anyone who asks what I think about God? I tell them the exact same thing.
And when someone replies you ignore it?
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