GM Bailout Looking like a win for Obama

[NYcarbineer]

This is a crushing repudiation of the nonsensical ideology of the anti-government right.

And well it should be, since they would rather have seen the virtual end of the domestic American auto industry than to have seen the government actually succeed.

 

[hortysir]

This is a crushing repudiation of the nonsensical ideology of the anti-government right.

And well it should be, since they would rather have seen the virtual end of the domestic American auto industry than to have seen the government actually succeed.

Once more, thickness.

GM =/= US Auto Industry

 

[NYcarbineer]

Here's something Sean Hannity said about this in 2009:

HANNITY: I have only bought American cars in my life, and GM is a sponsor and has been through a couple of years on my radio show. They made the turnaround in my eyes many years ago, and one of the problems is that I think government has played a role up until this point in terms of dictating what kind of cars we can buy.

Bad energy policy. We're not energy independent. I think number one, CAFE standards, mileage standards, safety standards. They've already had an impact on the economy. What are they going to do now? They're going to let the environmentalists design the cars?

Is that funny? Yes. Why is it funny? Because at the very time Hannity said all that, all that trashing he does of car economy and environmentalism, etc.,

he was not just hawking GM on his radio show, he was SPECIFICALLY hawking the VOLT, and touting everything about it he is trashing in the quote above.

And, good for him, he got paid handsomely in both cases.

And so what? WHO Gives a shit of Hannity in this discussion other than you in an attempt to obfuscate carbonated?

That's right...NO ONE.

So, just out of curiosity, whose ass tastes better? Hannity's or Levin's?

 

[boedicca]

The IPO is only a win for the unions and banking cronies who were able to cash in on this Obamanation.

The price at which the U.S. taxpayers would break even is $53 - a level that GM has only reached a couple of times in history - and under quite different economic circumstances.

Given that the S-1 disclosed that: GM has poor financial controls which make the financial reports and projections unreliable; the pension liabilities are crushing, and the IRS made an exception to allow $45B of tax loss carryforward (which should have been voided in the bankruptcy proceeding) - GM is a con game being propped up with gimmicks for the benefit of Big Government Cronies.

The stock is currently at $33.44, just 44 cents above the IPO price. That's a far cry from $53.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

There just no telling how profitable you can make a business when you're allowed to fuck over the Senior secured creditors

 

[CrusaderFrank]

GM's Business model was transferring shareholder equity to the Unions, let's see if that still holds

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Oh really? We loan them money, then loan them money to pay back the first loan, Obama tells the bond holders to fuckoff, then they do an IPO in which the taxpayers are excluded from participating... meanwhile the unions, who are complicit in the whole mess from the getgo never budge an inch.

Yep, it's a win-win alright... for the UAW.

 

[boedicca]

The public is almost always excluded from IPOs. IPOs are done with the book runners signing up big institutional investors. If it's a good IPO, there is much more demand than they can handle.

The small investor has to wait for the secondary market. GM is not unusual this way.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

The public is almost always excluded from IPOs. IPOs are done with the book runners signing up big institutional investors. If it's a good IPO, there is much more demand than they can handle.

The small investor has to wait for the secondary market. GM is not unusual this way.

Oh, I know. The problem I have is that since the taxpayers put them back in business, perhaps the taxpayers could have has a place at the table.

With that said, I wouldn't have... GM will be back in the shitter in matter of a couple of years as they haven't addressed their real problems.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

And BTW... The Volt Will be the Yugo for the new millennium.

 

[boedicca]

In an unintended way, the public was done a favor by not being allowed to buy this turd.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

When will rdean rail against China buying up part of GM?

 

[boedicca]

Hmmm....Never?

 

[Claudette]

GM was bailed out and still went bankrupt.

The shareholders and bondholders, folks with money, 401K's and retirments, invested in GM got hosed. Wonder if any of those folks are going to get their money back???

Ford took no money and is doing just fine.

I don't think I will be investing in GM. Who knows. The next bailout could get me hosed.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The price at which the U.S. taxpayers would break even is $53 - a level that GM has only reached a couple of times in history - and under quite different economic circumstances.

That's only if you assume the taxpayers would have lost nothing if GM had been allowed to collapse entirely.

 

[boedicca]

GM would have been bought out of bankruptcy by someone who could properly capitalize, reorganize, and manage the operations.

Taxpayers would have been better off if that happened - especially considering how the IRS GAVE GM $45B of tax benefits as part of the deal.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The price at which the U.S. taxpayers would break even is $53 - a level that GM has only reached a couple of times in history - and under quite different economic circumstances.

That's only if you assume the taxpayers would have lost nothing if GM had been allowed to collapse entirely.

Taxpayers would have lost a whole lot less than if GM restructured its crushing and still $27B underfunded UAW pensions liabilities

 

[hortysir]

The price at which the U.S. taxpayers would break even is $53 - a level that GM has only reached a couple of times in history - and under quite different economic circumstances.

That's only if you assume the taxpayers would have lost nothing if GM had been allowed to collapse entirely.

That would be a safe assumption considering the fact that the average taxpayer did not have a stake in GM

 

[CrusaderFrank]

GM: A company Obama bought by using the power of government to transfer wealth away from the stock and bondholders in order to enrich the UAW.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

The price at which the U.S. taxpayers would break even is $53 - a level that GM has only reached a couple of times in history - and under quite different economic circumstances.

That's only if you assume the taxpayers would have lost nothing if GM had been allowed to collapse entirely.

Businesses fail... all the time. It isn't always a bad thing. GM would not have collapsed the U.S. PERIOD. All we've done is reward bad behavior.

We'll be having this discussion again.. very soon.