Giving away more "no strings attached" taxpayer money

[Ringel05]

Go fuck yourselves.

I'm married, what else is new?

 

[Sweet Willy]

Would you settle for a statement that said people on welfare are in genreal poor manager of their finances. No one makes just 210 a week. At that level you get your groceries damn near free and the government furnishes you room and board. If you can't save up enough money to get into some job training program that will let you earn a living thn you are pretty fucking much incompetent especially given that a lot of those programs are free.

I don't know that anyone on welfare is , in general, a poor manager of their finances and neither do you. I would venture to say that some on welfare are, but to characterize them in general as such would be just that, an unsupported generalization. What we know about them is that they earn an amount of money that is not considered ample to provide for children, food and shelter. That says nothing to the management of money when you simply do not have enough of it to feed your family. It only tells us that you need to earn more.

 

[Sweet Willy]

The average American with a credit file is responsible for $16,635 in debt, excluding mortgages, according to Experian. (Source: U.S. News and World Report, "The End of Credit Card Consumerism," August 2008)

Want to talk about who the poorest managers of money are? let's get off this urban legend bullshit and look at some facts.

The average credit card indebted young adult household now spends nearly 24 percent of its income on debt payments, four percentage points more, on average, than young adults did in 1992. (Source: "Generation Broke: Growth of Debt Among Young Americans")

24% of their income on debt payments? Wow.


The average college graduate has nearly $20,000 in debt; average credit card debt has increased 47 percent between 1989 and 2004 for 25-to 34-year-olds and 11 percent for 18-to 24-year-olds. Nearly one in five 18-to 24-year-olds is in "debt hardship," up from 12 percent in 1989. (Source: Demos.org, "The Economic State of Young America," May 2008)

The worst money managers? Students probably get that title, looking at facts, not fairy tales.


When finances are tight, 59 percent of people would pay their credit card bills last. A majority -- 52 percent -- would pay the mortgage first and 38 percent say they would pay for utilities before paying other obligations.

So we can see that 59% of card holders would pay their mortgage first. How many welfare families to you think even have a mortgage?


Personal bankruptcies surged to more than 1 million filings in the United States in 2008, the most since a rewrite of bankruptcy laws took effect in 2005. (Source: American Bankruptcy Institute, January 2009)

How many welfare recipients do you think have to file for bankruptcy protection?

Credit card statistics, industry facts, debt statistics


If you want to know who the worst people managing money are, the people who live beyond their means but have have enough income to qualify for a credit card, take a look at this link. There is a giant swath of Americans who are piss poor managers of their income and have borrowed us into oblivion. And guess who are the least likely people to even have a credit card? What group comprises the lowest numbers of people in this group of epic and unprecedented irresponsibility? Oh yeah.....low income....welfare qualifiers.

You guys are so full of shit. After all this mess and the exposure of not only poor money management by the middle and upper classes, the extreme abuses of credit, and the record pace of debt growth among middle America, you have the nerve to claim that the people with the least money, the people with the least access to borrow money, the people with the least finances to manage, the people least responsible for this near apocolyptic economic crash....those are the worst managers of their finances?

Poppy cock. You guys are scape goating the easiest people. That's all. The numbers don't lie. The worst managers of their finances aren't welfare recipients, they are middle Americans with jobs and an education. The banks can tell you who they are.

 

[KittenKoder]

Sweet Willy almost got one right ... almost.

Many of the poor (not most, just a lot) are bad at managing money for one reason or another. Just because we don't normally have credit cards, doesn't mean every poor person like me can live off $700 a month successfully. It's not easy, but I just happen to be good with money and can be comfortable on that. The only reason I am not trying to earn more (which wouldn't be too difficult really) is that I have no reason to. Once I know exactly where I want to be in life (as in where to live, what career I really want as I don't enjoy programming for money, etc.) then I will ... as long as Obama doesn't destroy the rich I will one day decide to join the ranks of them ... or at least try. But if the rich keep getting soaked then I may just stay where I am until the incentive to earn more is back.

 

[RadiomanATL]

Where is the fraud? Do you have one confirmed case of fraud?

Nope. Which is why I said "the possibility and likelihood of rampant fraud." There is no way to track to see how the money was spent, so it's impossible to give an actual confirmed case.

But like I also said, it's also impossible to give one confirmed case that the money was spent as it should have been spent. Double edged sword there, this lack of tracking. Kinda cuts both ways.

Although I would say that anyone who claims that the fraud is not occurring is not living in reality.

In other words, there was no fraud that you have any knowledge of. You're shadow boxing.

In other words, there was no proper use of funds that you know of.


Cuts both ways, this lack of accountability....

 

[RadiomanATL]

The average American with a credit file is responsible for $16,635 in debt, excluding mortgages, according to Experian. (Source: U.S. News and World Report, "The End of Credit Card Consumerism," August 2008)

Want to talk about who the poorest managers of money are? let's get off this urban legend bullshit and look at some facts.

The average credit card indebted young adult household now spends nearly 24 percent of its income on debt payments, four percentage points more, on average, than young adults did in 1992. (Source: "Generation Broke: Growth of Debt Among Young Americans")

24% of their income on debt payments? Wow.


The average college graduate has nearly $20,000 in debt; average credit card debt has increased 47 percent between 1989 and 2004 for 25-to 34-year-olds and 11 percent for 18-to 24-year-olds. Nearly one in five 18-to 24-year-olds is in "debt hardship," up from 12 percent in 1989. (Source: Demos.org, "The Economic State of Young America," May 2008)

The worst money managers? Students probably get that title, looking at facts, not fairy tales.


When finances are tight, 59 percent of people would pay their credit card bills last. A majority -- 52 percent -- would pay the mortgage first and 38 percent say they would pay for utilities before paying other obligations.

So we can see that 59% of card holders would pay their mortgage first. How many welfare families to you think even have a mortgage?


Personal bankruptcies surged to more than 1 million filings in the United States in 2008, the most since a rewrite of bankruptcy laws took effect in 2005. (Source: American Bankruptcy Institute, January 2009)

How many welfare recipients do you think have to file for bankruptcy protection?

Credit card statistics, industry facts, debt statistics


If you want to know who the worst people managing money are, the people who live beyond their means but have have enough income to qualify for a credit card, take a look at this link. There is a giant swath of Americans who are piss poor managers of their income and have borrowed us into oblivion. And guess who are the least likely people to even have a credit card? What group comprises the lowest numbers of people in this group of epic and unprecedented irresponsibility? Oh yeah.....low income....welfare qualifiers.

You guys are so full of shit. After all this mess and the exposure of not only poor money management by the middle and upper classes, the extreme abuses of credit, and the record pace of debt growth among middle America, you have the nerve to claim that the people with the least money, the people with the least access to borrow money, the people with the least finances to manage, the people least responsible for this near apocolyptic economic crash....those are the worst managers of their finances?

Poppy cock. You guys are scape goating the easiest people. That's all. The numbers don't lie. The worst managers of their finances aren't welfare recipients, they are middle Americans with jobs and an education. The banks can tell you who they are.

Lots of nice pretty words.

Absolutely zero to do with the point, but a valiant effort at misdirection nonetheless.

No one is arguing that they are the worst money managers. Just that in general they are not very good at it. So you can post all the statistics that you would like about some group or another is worse, but it does nothing to disprove the argument.

 

[garyd]

Exactly right. Hell there are people on welfare these days that have credit cards.

 

[Sweet Willy]

No one is arguing that they are the worst money managers. .

You are lying Radioman. Your first words in this thread:


"However, since people on welfare usually have the poorest track record of managing their financial situation"


Then later:

Why do you sayn that people recieving welfare are usually poorest at managing their money?

Because they are.


You set up this entire thread on the premise that welfare recipients are the worst group of people at managing their money. You don't have any evidence that there was any fraud so the best you can do is make a negative characterization about people being the worst with their finances so obviously they committ fraud and we shouldn't give them any money.

Your entire argument is flawed, based on a presumption that you can not lend any support to the truth of. There are many, many welfare recipients who are the most frugal and careful managers of their finances because they only have so much to work with and it has to feed them and their kids for the month.

Tell you what, why don't you start over and make an argument based on your opinion and let's not start with trying to pass urban legend for truth to support your argument.

 

[Sweet Willy]

Exactly right. Hell there are people on welfare these days that have credit cards.

Could be. I'd say a person that earns so little that he qualifies for welfare but at the same time manages to convince a bank to give him a credit card is pretty keen on improving his financial position. Wouldn't you?

 

[garyd]

No I'd say he is either about to engage in fraud or is about to dig himself an even deeper whole to climb out of than he already has.

 

[Sweet Willy]

No I'd say he is either about to engage in fraud or is about to dig himself an even deeper whole to climb out of than he already has.

Maybe. We really couldn't say. The only thing we could say for sure is that a person who earns little enough to qualify for welfare but still manages to obtain a credit card has goven himself access to more financial options. Against the odds of obtaining that financial resource.

But in the end, this point is meaningless. Welfare recipients aren't qualifying for credit cards in any numbers. If they are, it isn't they who are the worst financial managers in that scenario, it's the bank that gives them the card, now isn't it?

 

[garyd]

Depnds almost entirely on the credit card doean't it?

 

[Sweet Willy]

Depnds almost entirely on the credit card doean't it?

Well, first I guess we have to figure out if they're are any significant numbers of welfare recipients with credit cards. It's your claim. See if you can prove it.

 

[garyd]

Since BOK was issuing them to illegal aliens and college kids get apps all the time with no obvious means of paying it back is uspect the amount of people on welfare with credit cards depends almost entirely on what you mean by significant.

 

[RadiomanATL]

Your first words in this thread:


"However, since people on welfare usually have the poorest track record of managing their financial situation"

Yer right. I had totally forgotten that I had said that they were usually the worst at handling their money. You have successfully proven that welfare recipients are not the worst. What you have utterly failed in doing is proving that they are average or above average at handling their finances. Don't know why you went off on the track of trying to prove someone is actually worse, since it doesn't help your premise that they are just as good at it as any other group. Wait a minute...I do know. It's because they are not.

So revised then: Welfare recipients are usually one of the worst groups at handling their financial situation.

 

[froggy]

if you notice when the so called leader in charge want more from tax payers the word (SCHOOL) is involved

 

[Sweet Willy]

Your first words in this thread:


"However, since people on welfare usually have the poorest track record of managing their financial situation"

Yer right. I had totally forgotten that I had said that they were usually the worst at handling their money. You have successfully proven that welfare recipients are not the worst. What you have utterly failed in doing is proving that they are average or above average at handling their finances. Don't know why you went off on the track of trying to prove someone is actually worse, since it doesn't help your premise that they are just as good at it as any other group. Wait a minute...I do know. It's because they are not.

So revised then: Welfare recipients are usually one of the worst groups at handling their financial situation.

So what you did was make an incorrect characterization of an entire group of people as the basis for your argument. FAIL.

Want to start over and try to make an honest argument?

 

[RadiomanATL]

Your first words in this thread:


"However, since people on welfare usually have the poorest track record of managing their financial situation"

Yer right. I had totally forgotten that I had said that they were usually the worst at handling their money. You have successfully proven that welfare recipients are not the worst. What you have utterly failed in doing is proving that they are average or above average at handling their finances. Don't know why you went off on the track of trying to prove someone is actually worse, since it doesn't help your premise that they are just as good at it as any other group. Wait a minute...I do know. It's because they are not.

So revised then: Welfare recipients are usually one of the worst groups at handling their financial situation.

So what you did was make an incorrect characterization of an entire group of people as the basis for your argument. FAIL.

Want to start over and try to make an honest argument?

I guess if you want to call going from "the worst" to "one of the worst" an incorrect characterization and thus a victory fer you, go ahead.

Kinda like saying that they're not the biggest turds in the punchbowl, only the second or third biggest. Whatever floats your boat, though it does absolutely zero to disprove that those on welfare have extremely poor track records of managing their finances. Which was the whole point of the argument....but ya knew that already, didn't ya?

 

[Sweet Willy]

Yer right. I had totally forgotten that I had said that they were usually the worst at handling their money. You have successfully proven that welfare recipients are not the worst. What you have utterly failed in doing is proving that they are average or above average at handling their finances. Don't know why you went off on the track of trying to prove someone is actually worse, since it doesn't help your premise that they are just as good at it as any other group. Wait a minute...I do know. It's because they are not.

So revised then: Welfare recipients are usually one of the worst groups at handling their financial situation.

So what you did was make an incorrect characterization of an entire group of people as the basis for your argument. FAIL.

Want to start over and try to make an honest argument?

I guess if you want to call going from "the worst" to "one of the worst" an incorrect characterization and thus a victory fer you, go ahead.

Kinda like saying that they're not the biggest turds in the punchbowl, only the second or third biggest. Whatever floats your boat, though it does absolutely zero to disprove that those on welfare have extremely poor track records of managing their finances. Which was the whole point of the argument....but ya knew that already, didn't ya?

You set your entire argument up on the premise that welfare recipients are the worst managers of their finance, therefore, the last people we should help out with money. What we have discovered is that you are dead wrong, they are not the worst managers of their money, in fact, you haven't demonstrated that they are poor at managing money at all. We have demonstrated that the worst group of money managers appear to be students, then middle income people living beyond their means on credit. You have yet to show that people on welfare manage any money they have poorly. Just because they are on welfare does not mean they are poor money managers. It is equally reasonable to claim that people on welfare are excellent money managers, considering they survive on so little. Neither characterization can be confirmed solely on the grounds that they recieve welfare.

Your argument was based on a poor assumption from which you have back pedalled and now want to say they are the third worst managers of money. Which is it? Do you have any evidence to support this absurd and offensive assumption about an entire group of people? Or were you just blowing out your ass and assumming that everyone would swallow that tripe? Easy to get people to beleive bullshit about those dirty welfare people, isn't it?

Now, let's have any facts you can supply to show that what you have said has any truth to it what so ever.

 

[ba1614]

I think it was Lonestar that posted this video the first time I saw it, but it's quite fitting for this thread.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI]YouTube - Obama Is Going To Pay For My Gas And Mortgage!!![/ame]