Get rid of Social Security now?

[Skull Pilot]

I am opposed to the SS scam because it saps the saving power of the average person,

How many times do I have to tell you that the 15% of your lifetime income that the fucking government confiscates if left in your hands could very well make you a millionaire in retirement?

Really? Then you are saying everyone presently drawing Social Security could have been millionaires if they had followed some plan you are aware of?

Do the math if you can. Anyone and I mean anyone over a working lifetime would have done better investing their SS contributions than they do letting the fucking government keep the money in their off the books slush fund

Why should people settle for a paltry 1200 to 2000 a month from SS when that same money could give you twice that income or more and still allow you to leave a large inheritance to your family?

I'm quite content with my financial situation, which includes my Social Security allotment. I've been collecting for over eleven years now and while I've never done the math I believe I've already collected more than I contributed. And if genetics are an indication I should be collecting for another ten or more years -- which is pretty damn good.

See that's your problem, you never do the math you just are a good little sheep and you follow the flock unthinking and blissfully ignorant of what your life could have been if you only thought for yourself.

And I don't mind contributing for my employees because it's the cost of doing business and if you were paying attention you'd see that I am using a 15% figure over and over again. FYI that 15% includes the employers contribution.

And cut the fucking shit with the greedy crap. I allow even my part time employees to contribute to a 401K with a very generous match I might add, oh btw my part time people even get vacation and sick time.

You are the one who wants to have people relinquish 15% of their money to the corrupt assholes in DC so they will never know true financial independence.

And how many times do I have to tell you that I don't listen to pundits because unlike you senile old sheep I am more than capable of thinking for myself.

At this point I should tell you I think you are basically full of shit.

At this point I think I should tell you that you have led a pitiful life following the herd and now you rationalize that you are happy because you were too fucking lazy to do the math

And what's worse you don't want anyone to be able to control their own financial future for the simple reason that you were incapable of doing it yourself.

 

[Skull Pilot]

It is OUR interest if it is a We the People old age social insurance policy.

You are part of We the People, too, and are bound by it.

No one questions what you do with your own money out of the program.

Of course you can handle your own money any way you want, but when you are part of a mandatory old age insurance program, you don't get to direct how it is used.

If we let the corporatists start handling government SS we are asking for the "sharks" to feed on the people because they will have fees, etc. They will be committed to their profits, not our profits.

Who said anything about letting corporatists handle anyone's money?

People should decide for themselves what to do with it and it's none of your fucking business.

The best "insurance policy" is a person keeping and controlling his own money not giving up 15% of his lifetime earnings all for a mere pittance in retirement.

But like a good sheep you don't question the malfeasance of the fucking government handling 15% of your lifetime earnings.

You will be lead happily to the abattoir with the rest of the sheep all the while thinking that the shepherd has your best interest at heart

 

[JakeStarkey]

Libertarians have no commitment to others, which is fine, because it shows you 3 to 4% of Americans are the flip side of communism, just as bad, too.

It is OUR interest if it is a We the People old age social insurance policy.

You are part of We the People, too, and are bound by it.

No one questions what you do with your own money out of the program.

Who said anything about letting corporatists handle anyone's money?

People should decide for themselves what to do with it and it's none of your fucking business.

The best "insurance policy" is a person keeping and controlling his own money not giving up 15% of his lifetime earnings all for a mere pittance in retirement.

But like a good sheep you don't question the malfeasance of the fucking government handling 15% of your lifetime earnings.

You will be lead happily to the abattoir with the rest of the sheep all the while thinking that the shepherd has your best interest at heart

 

[Toro]

We need to reform SS. It should be run like a real pension plan, and people should have the option of what they want to do with their funds.

Other countries like Canada, Finland and Norway have real pension plans. America should too.

 

[JakeStarkey]

As long as it is built so that the corporatists can't hedge their bets ad bust the system.

We need to reform SS. It should be run like a real pension plan, and people should have the option of what they want to do with their funds.

Other countries like Canada, Finland and Norway have real pension plans. America should too.

 

[flacaltenn]

As long as it is built so that the corporatists can't hedge their bets ad bust the system.

We need to reform SS. It should be run like a real pension plan, and people should have the option of what they want to do with their funds.

Other countries like Canada, Finland and Norway have real pension plans. America should too.

Sure thing jake.. Only inept and corrupt politicians should be allowed to "bust the system".

 

[MikeK]

I am opposed to the SS scam because it saps the saving power of the average person,

How many times do I have to tell you that the 15% of your lifetime income that the fucking government confiscates if left in your hands could very well make you a millionaire in retirement?

Really? Then you are saying everyone presently drawing Social Security could have been millionaires if they had followed some plan you are aware of?

Do the math if you can. Anyone and I mean anyone over a working lifetime would have done better investing their SS contributions than they do letting the fucking government keep the money in their off the books slush fund



See that's your problem, you never do the math you just are a good little sheep and you follow the flock unthinking and blissfully ignorant of what your life could have been if you only thought for yourself.

And I don't mind contributing for my employees because it's the cost of doing business and if you were paying attention you'd see that I am using a 15% figure over and over again. FYI that 15% includes the employers contribution.

And cut the fucking shit with the greedy crap. I allow even my part time employees to contribute to a 401K with a very generous match I might add, oh btw my part time people even get vacation and sick time.

You are the one who wants to have people relinquish 15% of their money to the corrupt assholes in DC so they will never know true financial independence.

And how many times do I have to tell you that I don't listen to pundits because unlike you senile old sheep I am more than capable of thinking for myself.

At this point I should tell you I think you are basically full of shit.

At this point I think I should tell you that you have led a pitiful life following the herd and now you rationalize that you are happy because you were too fucking lazy to do the math

And what's worse you don't want anyone to be able to control their own financial future for the simple reason that you were incapable of doing it yourself.

I believe I know a bit more about the quality of my life than you do.

If at age nineteen, when I joined the military and left home, I had mapped out the kind of future I aspired to, with the single exception of losing my beloved wife everything has gone pretty much according to those vague aspirations and I have absolutely no regrets. Whether or not you choose to believe it I am perfectly content with the sum total of my life and I want for nothing. So why are you experiencing such painful regret on my behalf?

I have never aspired to monetary wealth. Of course I'd like to have a lot of money but I've always had better things to do with my spare time than to do what it takes to get more and more and more. But I doubt you wish to believe that, either.

I have a very clear understanding of the meaning of, enough. I believe my understanding of that concept came from simple wisdoms imparted to me over the years by parents and grandparents who survived the Depression. For me, a comfortable home, plenty of food on the table, a healthy, loving family, good medical insurance and enough money to pay the bills and afford simple pleasures is great wealth.

Everything you've said strongly suggests you believe contentment depends on having more than you need to lead a comfortable, healthy life. And that orientation defines the pathology commonly known as greed. Your hunger will never be satisfied unless you manage to understand yourself better.

Two books I strongly recommend you read, and re-read, and re-read: Hierarchy of Needs (by Abraham Maslow), and Escape From Freedom (by Dr. Erich Fromm). Both are available from Amazon and are inexpensive.

And that's all I have for you tonight.

 

[Grandma]

Let's do some math. Say you're making on average $50,000 throughout your working life. 15% of that is $7500. If you work from age 18 until age 72, you'll have socked away $405,000.

Now I don't know what the interest would add up to, but I'm betting you won't have a million bucks.

 

[MikeK]

We need to reform SS. It should be run like a real pension plan, and people should have the option of what they want to do with their funds.

[...]

I don't know enough about the programs in Canada, Finland and Norway to discuss them. But I know enough about America and Americans to understand the wisdom that gave rise to the Social Security program.

A voluntary retirement/investment program wouldn't work for two reasons. First is very few ordinary working class Americans know enough about investing to make wise choices and there are too many sharks in those waters to set so many potential victims adrift.

A more compelling reason why a voluntary program wouldn't work is the critical factor of human nature. With very few exceptions people under fifty do not really believe they ever will get old (a factor which also feeds the notion so many have that they will never collect). We humans have some vague supposition about getting old but in the deepest realm of our preconscious minds we simply cannot fathom the reality of aging. We are unable to accept the idea that we won't always be strong and vital. And that subliminal self-deception will induce most of us to put off contributing to investment programs in favor of spending the money on some more immediate and enticing "necessity."

The Social Security program applies the force of Law to ensure that no working American will reach retirement age totally penniless, which was a common circumstance during the Depression era. Equally important, the program serves as a guaranteed source of economic stimulus by dumping an enormous amount of revenue into the public sector month by month, almost all of which is sure to be circulated. This monthly surge of raw cash is a critically important deterrent to the kind of stagnation which fosters economic depression.

It should also be kept in mind that a great deal of effort is put forth by the finance industry to promote the notion that Social Security is going bankrupt and works against the best interests of contributing workers. This effort takes the form of misinformation disseminated by the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, and other multi-millionaire media propagandists. This is done because the Wall Street sharks have for years been salivating at the thought of getting their hands on the kind of money paid into F.I.C.A. every month.

Bottom line: Social Security is a good program. And take it from one who knows -- you will get old. It does happen. And unless the U.S. Government goes totally bankrupt, in which case we all will have a lot more to worry about than Social Security, you can count on a nice little check on the first of every month until you die. And most of us will receive a hell of a lot more than we contribute.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Libertarians have no commitment to others, which is fine, because it shows you 3 to 4% of Americans are the flip side of communism, just as bad, too.

It is OUR interest if it is a We the People old age social insurance policy.

You are part of We the People, too, and are bound by it.

No one questions what you do with your own money out of the program.

The best "insurance policy" is a person keeping and controlling his own money not giving up 15% of his lifetime earnings all for a mere pittance in retirement.

But like a good sheep you don't question the malfeasance of the fucking government handling 15% of your lifetime earnings.

You will be lead happily to the abattoir with the rest of the sheep all the while thinking that the shepherd has your best interest at heart

Who says I'm a libertarian?

I know it's hard for a follower like you to understand but I don't subscribe to any political pigeon hole party group think.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Let's do some math. Say you're making on average $50,000 throughout your working life. 15% of that is $7500. If you work from age 18 until age 72, you'll have socked away $405,000.

Now I don't know what the interest would add up to, but I'm betting you won't have a million bucks.

Then you are just another idiot too lazy to do the math.

7500 is 625 a month

18 to 72 is a 54 year career

Based on the S&P 500

If you earned an average of 5% you would have over 2 million dollars.

If you earned an average of 6% you would have over 3 million dollars.

Now if you take the last 54 years and actually use what the stock market returned which was 9.62%

You would have had over 13.5 million

Now take a minute and think what if you added another 5000 a year or 10% of the income in your post to the 15% thew government confiscates from you?

That would be 1042 a month

Over the same time frame you would have had

at 5% 3.4 million

at 6% 5.07 million

So tell me again how SS is a good deal.

Now there are many people whose portfolios outperform the S&P but as you can see even if you were conservative with your investments you would do better than you do with SS

 

[Mac1958]

.

Personally, selfishly, I see significant, long-term financial benefit to myself and my loved ones by making sure that the lower rungs, the less fortunate, the less able of our society have a strong financial and (especially) health care safety net. Leaving these people to their own (or no) devices costs me more in the long run. Easy call.

.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Really? Then you are saying everyone presently drawing Social Security could have been millionaires if they had followed some plan you are aware of?

Do the math if you can. Anyone and I mean anyone over a working lifetime would have done better investing their SS contributions than they do letting the fucking government keep the money in their off the books slush fund



See that's your problem, you never do the math you just are a good little sheep and you follow the flock unthinking and blissfully ignorant of what your life could have been if you only thought for yourself.

At this point I should tell you I think you are basically full of shit.

At this point I think I should tell you that you have led a pitiful life following the herd and now you rationalize that you are happy because you were too fucking lazy to do the math

And what's worse you don't want anyone to be able to control their own financial future for the simple reason that you were incapable of doing it yourself.

I believe I know a bit more about the quality of my life than you do.

If at age nineteen, when I joined the military and left home, I had mapped out the kind of future I aspired to, with the single exception of losing my beloved wife everything has gone pretty much according to those vague aspirations and I have absolutely no regrets. Whether or not you choose to believe it I am perfectly content with the sum total of my life and I want for nothing. So why are you experiencing such painful regret on my behalf?

I have never aspired to monetary wealth. Of course I'd like to have a lot of money but I've always had better things to do with my spare time than to do what it takes to get more and more and more. But I doubt you wish to believe that, either.

I have a very clear understanding of the meaning of, enough. I believe my understanding of that concept came from simple wisdoms imparted to me over the years by parents and grandparents who survived the Depression. For me, a comfortable home, plenty of food on the table, a healthy, loving family, good medical insurance and enough money to pay the bills and afford simple pleasures is great wealth.

Everything you've said strongly suggests you believe contentment depends on having more than you need to lead a comfortable, healthy life. And that orientation defines the pathology commonly known as greed. Your hunger will never be satisfied unless you manage to understand yourself better.

Two books I strongly recommend you read, and re-read, and re-read: Hierarchy of Needs (by Abraham Maslow), and Escape From Freedom (by Dr. Erich Fromm). Both are available from Amazon and are inexpensive.

And that's all I have for you tonight.

I've read Maslow and know the hierarchy of needs. But I want more than a roof and food on the table.

And why is it that you people want to dictate what others need to live.

That is a question that can only be answered by each individual.

And only those who have resigned themselves to living less of a life than they could call those who aspire to more as greedy.

And btw I'm not talking about taking anyone's money all I am doing is trying to illustrate what one could do with the money they earn if the fucking government would leave it in our hands.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Don't be juvenile. We live in society and culture. We are not islands alone. You are a part of We the People. All you can really say then is "I don't like it."

Libertarians have no commitment to others, which is fine, because it shows you 3 to 4% of Americans are the flip side of communism, just as bad, too.

The best "insurance policy" is a person keeping and controlling his own money not giving up 15% of his lifetime earnings all for a mere pittance in retirement.

But like a good sheep you don't question the malfeasance of the fucking government handling 15% of your lifetime earnings.

You will be lead happily to the abattoir with the rest of the sheep all the while thinking that the shepherd has your best interest at heart

Who says I'm a libertarian?

I know it's hard for a follower like you to understand but I don't subscribe to any political pigeon hole party group think.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Don't be juvenile. We live in society and culture. We are not islands alone. You are a part of We the People. All you can really say then is "I don't like it."

Libertarians have no commitment to others, which is fine, because it shows you 3 to 4% of Americans are the flip side of communism, just as bad, too.

Who says I'm a libertarian?

I know it's hard for a follower like you to understand but I don't subscribe to any political pigeon hole party group think.

Fuck this we the people shit.

This country is based on individual rights not collective rights.

And sorry but you the people weren't working 100 hours a week for my business. I was and yet you the people think you are entitled to the fruits of my labor

 

[JakeStarkey]

The Constitution created a charter for the American community.

You are part of that, whether you like or not.

Quit being a bubba.

Don't be juvenile. We live in society and culture. We are not islands alone. You are a part of We the People. All you can really say then is "I don't like it."

Who says I'm a libertarian?

I know it's hard for a follower like you to understand but I don't subscribe to any political pigeon hole party group think.

Fuck this we the people shit.

This country is based on individual rights not collective rights.

And sorry but you the people weren't working 100 hours a week for my business. I was and yet you the people think you are entitled to the fruits of my labor

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Which happens how often?

I'll help you out here

Not fucking very

50% of the clients will live past median life expectancy, 50% won't make it to median life expectancy.

You aren't too smart, are you?

You think mortality tables are based solely on the median life expectancy?

Who is not too smart now , Sparky?

A life table provides more information than median life expectancy.

You, still.


Insurance companies will sell you the value of the expected risk for the cost of that risk plus a small profit. The value of an annuity is quite easy to calculate, its simply the present value of the future cash flows from each year of the annuity multiplied times the chance the buyer will be alive that year, all summed up. The insurance company will sell you that annuity for that value + whatever they can get in profit. If they ask for too much in profit, the insurance company down the street will undercut them and they go out of business.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

We need to reform SS. It should be run like a real pension plan, and people should have the option of what they want to do with their funds.

Other countries like Canada, Finland and Norway have real pension plans. America should too.

In Canada the choice of investments is made by the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board. That's quite different from being allowed to choose your own investments.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Let's do some math. Say you're making on average $50,000 throughout your working life. 15% of that is $7500. If you work from age 18 until age 72, you'll have socked away $405,000.

Now I don't know what the interest would add up to, but I'm betting you won't have a million bucks.

Then you are just another idiot too lazy to do the math.

7500 is 625 a month

18 to 72 is a 54 year career

Based on the S&P 500

If you earned an average of 5% you would have over 2 million dollars.

If you earned an average of 6% you would have over 3 million dollars.

Now if you take the last 54 years and actually use what the stock market returned which was 9.62%

You would have had over 13.5 million

Now take a minute and think what if you added another 5000 a year or 10% of the income in your post to the 15% thew government confiscates from you?

That would be 1042 a month

Over the same time frame you would have had

at 5% 3.4 million

at 6% 5.07 million

So tell me again how SS is a good deal.

Now there are many people whose portfolios outperform the S&P but as you can see even if you were conservative with your investments you would do better than you do with SS

Based on the S&P 500?

Why did you select the last 54 years and why the S&P 500?

Why do you presume the future stock market would behave the same as the S&P 500 over the last 54 years? You just happened to pick a time period and place in history where the stock market did extraordinarily well compared to other time periods and places. That seems to be a shaky presumption.

Why do you entirely neglect the economic reality is that fewer (greater) contributions towards retirement are made during periods where stocks are priced low (high) ? People would have done well to invest in the stock market throughout much of the 1930's - but people didn't have much income, so they didn't do too much investing. This is (one reason) why individual investors almost always under-perform the market.

Why, also, do you treat the past stock market as if it would have been completely unaffected by the infusion of trillions in retirement contributions?



And - since Social Security is paygo, how the hell would current beneficiaries have been funded while your monies were diverted into pumping up stock prices?

 

[regent]

Let's do some math. Say you're making on average $50,000 throughout your working life. 15% of that is $7500. If you work from age 18 until age 72, you'll have socked away $405,000.

Now I don't know what the interest would add up to, but I'm betting you won't have a million bucks.

Then you are just another idiot too lazy to do the math.

7500 is 625 a month

18 to 72 is a 54 year career

Based on the S&P 500

If you earned an average of 5% you would have over 2 million dollars.

If you earned an average of 6% you would have over 3 million dollars.

Now if you take the last 54 years and actually use what the stock market returned which was 9.62%

You would have had over 13.5 million

Now take a minute and think what if you added another 5000 a year or 10% of the income in your post to the 15% thew government confiscates from you?

That would be 1042 a month

Over the same time frame you would have had

at 5% 3.4 million

at 6% 5.07 million

So tell me again how SS is a good deal.

Now there are many people whose portfolios outperform the S&P but as you can see even if you were conservative with your investments you would do better than you do with SS

That's why there were so many millionaires before Social Security was enacted, or are we missing something here?