Frozen wind turbines hamper Texas power output

[Andylusion]

The irony of this event is oh so delicious

Nearly half of Texas' installed wind power generation capacity has been offline because of frozen wind turbines in West Texas, according to Texas grid operators.

Wind farms across the state generate up to a combined 25,100 megawatts of energy. But unusually moist winter conditions in West Texas brought on by the weekend's freezing rain and historically low temperatures have iced many of those wind turbines to a halt.

Frozen wind turbines hamper Texas power output, state's electric grid operator says

Texas grid operators urge conservation as frozen wind turbines freeze up electric generation.

www.statesman.com

Where's the "irony"?

It's so obvious, that I don't know how to respond to someone incapable of seeing it.

There seems to be a lot of that going around. It's not you, no one else had an answer either.

Well, I'll spell it out.

The supposed purpose and point of wind mills is to be the Utopian green energy that will replace conventional power.

Instead, a small weather event nearly black-outs the state (much like Venezuela relying on hydropower).

And the irony is, that in order to thaw out the wind turbines, they have to hose them down with petrol based chemicals, that are sprayed openly into the environment.

The irony is pretty clear to those of us on the right-wing.

 

[abu afak]

Frozen Wind Farms Are Just a Small Piece of Texas’s Power Woes

February 15, 2021, 7:29 PM EST Updated on February 16, 2021, 11:28 AM EST

• Natural gas, coal and nuclear played bigger role in blackouts
  [*]Blaming reduced wind output ‘is really a red herring’

""Don’t point too many fingers at Texas wind turbines, because they’re Not the main reason broad swaths of the state have been plunged into darkness.

While ice has forced some turbines to shut down just as a brutal cold wave drives record electricity demand, that’s been the Least significant factor in the blackouts, according to Dan Woodfin, a senior director for the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, which operates the state’s power grid."...."

Frozen Wind Farms Are Just a Small Piece of Texas’s Power Woes

Don’t point too many fingers at Texas wind turbines, because they’re not the main reason broad swaths of the state have been plunged into darkness.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[Pogo]

The irony of this event is oh so delicious

Nearly half of Texas' installed wind power generation capacity has been offline because of frozen wind turbines in West Texas, according to Texas grid operators.

Wind farms across the state generate up to a combined 25,100 megawatts of energy. But unusually moist winter conditions in West Texas brought on by the weekend's freezing rain and historically low temperatures have iced many of those wind turbines to a halt.

Frozen wind turbines hamper Texas power output, state's electric grid operator says

Texas grid operators urge conservation as frozen wind turbines freeze up electric generation.

www.statesman.com

Where's the "irony"?

It's so obvious, that I don't know how to respond to someone incapable of seeing it.

There seems to be a lot of that going around. It's not you, no one else had an answer either.

Well, I'll spell it out.

The supposed purpose and point of wind mills is to be the Utopian green energy that will replace conventional power.

<snip>

Ah, there it is. A false premise spoon-fed you from parts unknown.

Here's the thing about made-up spoon-fed talking points: nobody outside your bubble got those memos. If they were valid premises ---- everybody would know them.

Weird though, that the poster who called it "irony", couldn't explain it. We'll never know what he meant. Took three days to even come up with your version.

 

[flacaltenn]

Never mind that the minimum optimal for most flora is at least 300ppm of CO2, and at around 400ppm there's way too much ..

There is a basic rule of Atmospheric Physics that quantifies the warming from "back - radiation" of CO2.. It says that that each doubling of CO2 in the atmos, the BASIC warming (without the added hysteria of the adjunct catastrophic theories of GW) is about 1.1DegC per doubling.

So -- the pre Industrial age CO2 level was somewhere around 280ppm. Subject to our abilities back in the 19th century to measure it.. So the 1st doubling from THAT -- would be 560ppm. We're at about 410ppm.. Wont reach 560 for perhaps another 40 or 60 years. How much has it warmed in your lifetime? On the average of lifetimes now -- about 1.2DegC. That's 1/16 of the year to year temp variance on any given day (depending on climate zone and lattitude).

And HOW LONG to the next doubling to reach 1120 ppm? -- Not gonna happen by 2100 or maybe even 2200 if we're just alert and smart.

NOTE: from basic physics and chemistry, the math I just gave you says that the power of CO2 to warm the surface is logarithmically reduced at each doubling. It's not linear. From our 1st post Indust. Age doubling goal line of another 280ppm, THE NEXT DOUBLING requires TWICE as much CO2 concentration to get there.

 

[flacaltenn]

Solar's best potential would be as orbital solar power stations, beaming that electricity down to Earth as microwaves and then converted back to electricity. Unfortunately that's a huge project, but would be a great incentive towards further space expansion/colonization/industry.

Ever play Sim City? They had microwave beam orbiting solar. Used to occasionally destroy your city!!!! Seriously tho -- sending THAT MUCH POWER thru the atmos has consequences. And the atmosphere itself can eat it up or spread it out. I'll patiently wait for us to get desperate enough to try this.. Comm satellites that use microwaves dont need a lot of received power to function because the receivers can be TUNED and processed to detect really weak signals.

And the design is not trivial.. Converting MWatts of solar in space to microwave energy is hard to do on a small space platform.. And MWatts being blasted at a receiver on the ground and converting that to grid energy is a similar Herculean hurdle to cover.. Space is lot more hostile than Texas in a 40 year snow/ice event. The potential for etching of the panels is AWFULLY damn high..

 

[flacaltenn]

One resource we've dumped rather hastily is nuclear, which has a better efficiency and safety record than the public is lead to believe. Just ask our US Navy which makes extensive use of nuclear power-plants.

Totally agree, A large number of key environmentalists and many of most ardent GW scientists -- have written positive positions on nuclear. We've sat out the 2nd, 3rd generation nuclear designs. It's time we at least commission a rush 3 or 4 "fly off" somewhere on govt abused land to demonstrate these 3rd and 4th gen designs and approve fast track licensing for the winners.

My main point is we don't want to rush into new and not fully developed techs and at the same time do large scale abandon of what we have.

I beg to differ. Solar and wind are VERY MATURE technologies. Been solar panels on the WHouse since Carter and now BOTH are just mass produced commodity items. We dont even PRODUCE much of this in the USA because its mature tech. The "innovations" would be in grid scale storage. But every technique to DO THAT -- is NOT green at all..

BTW -- in science/engineering there are always avenues to make stuff better. A lot of the time -- you just cannot "go there" because of costs, dangers, or enviro concerns. For instance, we COULD MAKE Solar panels that are 15% more efficient if we used Gallium Arsenide semiconduction instead of silicon and more expensive amounts of gold/silver.. But who wants to CREATE A HUGE Arsenic mining process and handle the massive wastestream??? Just because it's POSSIBLE -- does not mean you should do it.. These GA-AS panels btw -- is what powers satellites and the Mars rovers.,

And pay attention to the politics.. The RUSH is on.. The Dems are salivating over wind and solar as key elements of infrastructure. They dont care about responsible mixing of methods. Their goal is to KILL all fossil fuel usage by a date certain. Even gasoline. Adding even MORE RAW CAPACITY to the grid to charge them.. They are more afraid of nuclear then they are of GWarming !!!!!!

What does that tell you? You on-board with this juvenile dream and wasting monstrous amount of material and money on their fantasies?

 

[Stryder50]

^^^#324 The part of my post you quoted was meant to be mostly sarcastic, I failed to find and use a suitable emoji.

If I understand your post and what you are trying to say, that matches much of what was being shown in the charts/graphs I presented a bit further back about post #318 here.

1.2degreeC works close to 2.5 degreeF and in my 70 years living here in this part of the PNW of USA I don't recall seeing or experiencing any significant changes in average temperatures over that time.

Note I say "average" as some Winters are colder and showier than others, some Summers hotter and drier than others, but when averaged out seems the basic range of variable over the years going bak to when I was growing up.

I'm not sure we'll get to 560ppm in the next few decades, at least not through human efforts. Between some mitigation methods starting to apply, some of the energy systems transitions, and other factors I think we may be getting close to a peak out as far as human contribution goes.

 

[Stryder50]

Solar's best potential would be as orbital solar power stations, beaming that electricity down to Earth as microwaves and then converted back to electricity. Unfortunately that's a huge project, but would be a great incentive towards further space expansion/colonization/industry.

Ever play Sim City? They had microwave beam orbiting solar. Used to occasionally destroy your city!!!! Seriously tho -- sending THAT MUCH POWER thru the atmos has consequences. And the atmosphere itself can eat it up or spread it out. I'll patiently wait for us to get desperate enough to try this.. Comm satellites that use microwaves dont need a lot of received power to function because the receivers can be TUNED and processed to detect really weak signals.

And the design is not trivial.. Converting MWatts of solar in space to microwave energy is hard to do on a small space platform.. And MWatts being blasted at a receiver on the ground and converting that to grid energy is a similar Herculean hurdle to cover.. Space is lot more hostile than Texas in a 40 year snow/ice event. The potential for etching of the panels is AWFULLY damn high..

Regards Sim City, long ago and sounds like before that version was available.

I understand and appreciate your points on OSPS and beaming down to Earth, thanks for covering this. It's been a couple decades now that I think about it since I've read "The High Frontier"~O'Neill;

The High Frontier: Human Colonies in Space (Apogee Book…

This expanded third edition features a new preface, int…

www.goodreads.com

The High Frontier: Human Colonies in Space - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

... or been current on this tech option.

As history tends to teach us, not solution is without it's new and different problems. See that whales and petroleum matrix I mentioned earlier. Solar Power Satellites may have to remain an energy source for use in space and places in vacuum like Luna/Moon bases, etc.

 

[Stryder50]

One resource we've dumped rather hastily is nuclear, which has a better efficiency and safety record than the public is lead to believe. Just ask our US Navy which makes extensive use of nuclear power-plants.

Totally agree, A large number of key environmentalists and many of most ardent GW scientists -- have written positive positions on nuclear. We've sat out the 2nd, 3rd generation nuclear designs. It's time we at least commission a rush 3 or 4 "fly off" somewhere on govt abused land to demonstrate these 3rd and 4th gen designs and approve fast track licensing for the winners.

Glad to hear that. I realize one major concern is the nuclear waste issue, but my thought is we can find remote enough areas to stash it for now and plan on a solution in the future. Perfecting fission reactors might be that, where we could use waste from the fusion process as fuel for the fission.

My main point is we don't want to rush into new and not fully developed techs and at the same time do large scale abandon of what we have.

I beg to differ. Solar and wind are VERY MATURE technologies. Been solar panels on the WHouse since Carter and now BOTH are just mass produced commodity items. We dont even PRODUCE much of this in the USA because its mature tech. The "innovations" would be in grid scale storage. But every technique to DO THAT -- is NOT green at all..

My point, which I may not have expressed well enough, is that cost$ per watt produced these seem marginal still. If one factors out the guv'mint subsidies and factors in the environmental and other costs of raw material mining/processing and then the useful lifespans, after which there are disposal costs, such aren't looking to be bargain enough to replace(totally) other systems like hydro or carbon-fuels.

Are those solar panels from Carter's time still on the White House or did they have to be replaced. If so, due to wearing out or just upgrade to improved models?

As for wind generators, the designs other than the tall three blade towers are looking more interesting, IMO. Here's link to a search page showing dozens of types/images;

cylinder style wind power generators at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

As for the grid storage techniques, I'm with you there. Most lately seems to center around lithium battery tech and there we are back to the mning and processing cost$ plus eventual dispose of cost$ and collectively, not such a bargain moneywise or environmental wise.

BTW -- in science/engineering there are always avenues to make stuff better. A lot of the time -- you just cannot "go there" because of costs, dangers, or enviro concerns. For instance, we COULD MAKE Solar panels that are 15% more efficient if we used Gallium Arsenide semiconduction instead of silicon and more expensive amounts of gold/silver.. But who wants to CREATE A HUGE Arsenic mining process and handle the massive wastestream??? Just because it's POSSIBLE -- does not mean you should do it.. These GA-AS panels btw -- is what powers satellites and the Mars rovers.,

I follow you there. My last employment before being retired(sort-of) was as the Quality Assurance-Inspector for an industrial firm making fiberglass/composite components for much of the energy and chemical industry manufacturers/suppliers so I have some gauge on this.

Agreed, sometimes the slight gain in efficiency doesn't match the various costs to get there.

So-far, GA-AS panels don't pencil out as practicable or affordable for terrestrial(Earthly) applications.

And pay attention to the politics.. The RUSH is on.. The Dems are salivating over wind and solar as key elements of infrastructure. They dont care about responsible mixing of methods. Their goal is to KILL all fossil fuel usage by a date certain. Even gasoline. Adding even MORE RAW CAPACITY to the grid to charge them.. They are more afraid of nuclear then they are of GWarming !!!!!!

What does that tell you? You on-board with this juvenile dream and wasting monstrous amount of material and money on their fantasies?

I'm aware of that I can assure you. I'm involved in local political and economic orgs seeking to develop our local economy and counter the absurd and illogical agendas of the "Greenies".

I think we are in agreement that for now and the near future into the next century or so, we need to retain a mix of sources on both energy and related raw material resources to sustain a national and global economy and systems that will keep the most people alive and hopefully thriving as best as can be done.

As population grows we (humans on planet Earth) need to add to resource and energy capacity to cover and provide for that growth and the Dems/Greenies are wanting to cut such while not being willing to be the first in line to pay the costs; just the opposite.

Carbon resources, for fuel and more essentially for materials will remain an essential need to sustain global economies and populations for the decades to come as we transition to any other viable sources/resources.

I'll get back to your final paragraph(+) in the next post I make here. ...

 

[Stryder50]

Edited for brevity ...

They are more afraid of nuclear then they are of GWarming !!!!!!

Yes, I've noticed that.
Shows how illogical and garbled thinking they are.

What does that tell you? You on-board with this juvenile dream and wasting monstrous amount of material and money on their fantasies?

What I just said above. Too many in our society are ignorant and deluded. Their "fantasies are just that=fantasies; and have no realistic linkage to reality.

Too many of our society~social mix, allowed to vote when they fail to have needed knowledge nor brains to do such, get to; and hence the inmates run the asylum. One could say, and fantasy and delusion are the basis of too much of our social, economic, and governmental policies.

"We" are seeing the process of social suicide in play where the masses are incompotent and dragging down the fewer of us whom are capable and have a clue. A purge is likely in the future, if not a collapse back to pre-civilized conditions.

 

[ding]

No one has suggested only using wind and solar, but as "supplements," as you want to call them, they are being pushed because they are one piece of the puzzle.

That's the Green Raw Deal.. We're in Phase 1 already. Eliminating or making fossil fuel of ANY KIND too expensive and rare. Hasn't been a one of those advocating talking about ANYTHING OTHER than wind and solar.. Got any statements about building out Nuclear on 4th gen technology? Nope. John Fraud Kerry just told all those pipeline workers laid off to "go and become Solar Technicians"...

That's the level of stupid I'm fighting against..

I think you have sold yourself way too short. You whine just fine.