tinydancer
Diamond Member
Wait. It wasn't the Crusades?
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Wrong.Bush's strategic mistake was the demobilization of the Iraq army. That will go down as the biggest military blunder in US history.
The biggest blunder was leaving Iraq and failing to leave a military force.
Demobilizing an army that had been intensely loyal to Saddam was a no brainer.
Wrong. The biggest blunder was the invasion of Iraq to begin with.
Followed by disbanding the Iraqi Army.
Isnt ISIS made up of a bunch of Sunni ex Iraqi Army officers and soldiers?
It wasn't a blunder. It was a crime.Wrong. The biggest blunder was the invasion of Iraq to begin with.
That was an extension of the crime, which was intended dominance of the Iraqi oil fields and total termination of any threat to Saudi Arabia by the Iraqi military.Followed by disbanding the Iraqi Army.
Yes.Isnt ISIS made up of a bunch of Sunni ex Iraqi Army officers and soldiers?
Would've, could've... Should've
"We strategically marched in the wrong direction."
Retired Lt. General Michael Flynn, the former U.S. special forces chief in Iraq and Afghanistan who was the country's highest ranking military intelligence official, says that the George W. Bush administration's Iraq war was a tremendous blunder that helped to create the self-proclaimed Islamic State, or ISIS.
"It was a huge error," Flynn said about the Iraq war in a detailed interview with German newspaper Der Spiegel published Sunday.
"As brutal as Saddam Hussein was, it was a mistake to just eliminate him," Flynn went on to say. "The same is true for Moammar Gadhafi and for Libya, which is now a failed state. The historic lesson is that it was a strategic failure to go into Iraq. History will not be and should not be kind with that decision."
When told by Der Spiegel reporters Matthias Gebauer and Holger Stark that the Islamic State would not "be where it is now without the fall of Baghdad," Flynn, without reservations, said: "Yes, absolutely."
Read the entire interview here.
Former Military Chief: Iraq War Was A 'Failure' That Helped Create ISIS
Ex-US Intelligence Chief on Islamic State's Rise: 'We Were Too Dumb' - SPIEGEL ONLINE
That fits with what many of us already know - and accept as fact.
Do you think that the area would not have been destabilized had Bush left the army in place?Yes, you have to have no brains to think demobilizing the Iraqi army was a good idea. In fact, that was when I realized our Commander in Chief was not pretending to be stupid as an act to bond with the common man, he actually IS stupid.Wrong.Bush's strategic mistake was the demobilization of the Iraq army. That will go down as the biggest military blunder in US history.
The biggest blunder was leaving Iraq and failing to leave a military force.
Demobilizing an army that had been intensely loyal to Saddam was a no brainer.
We kept the German, Italian, and Japanese armies mobilized after WWII. For years. This served to stabilize those countries, and we should have used those models in Iraq.
Instead, Bush had some idiotic dream that Iraq was going to become a libertarian paradise overnight, and the Iraqi army went home with their weapons and became the bulk of the insurgency.
What restrictions ?
The ones which prevent the wholesale slaughter of innocents.
That's exactly what the right wants. We destroyed Iraq - for no reason and now the right wants to do the same in just about every other ME country.
How many times have we read some dunderhead here saying we should "bomb ISIL"? What in the world are they thinking?
Nothing. Nothing at all.
And yet, somehow it escapes you that Obama has aided in the destruction of Libya, Syria and Yemen, while the left has sat back and made excuses for 7 years. Get down off your high horse.That's exactly what the right wants. We destroyed Iraq - for no reason and now the right wants to do the same in just about every other ME country.
Do you think that the area would not have been destabilized had Bush left the army in place?Yes, you have to have no brains to think demobilizing the Iraqi army was a good idea. In fact, that was when I realized our Commander in Chief was not pretending to be stupid as an act to bond with the common man, he actually IS stupid.Wrong.Bush's strategic mistake was the demobilization of the Iraq army. That will go down as the biggest military blunder in US history.
The biggest blunder was leaving Iraq and failing to leave a military force.
Demobilizing an army that had been intensely loyal to Saddam was a no brainer.
We kept the German, Italian, and Japanese armies mobilized after WWII. For years. This served to stabilize those countries, and we should have used those models in Iraq.
Instead, Bush had some idiotic dream that Iraq was going to become a libertarian paradise overnight, and the Iraqi army went home with their weapons and became the bulk of the insurgency.
I doubt that would have been the case to be honest. The real mistake is that he removed the stable government there in an area that was not likely to re-establish such. The travesty is that this is a partisan bitching contest and Obama is trying to do the exact same thing. Half the electorate demands that Bush was a disaster for Iraq and ignores Obama, the other half demands that Obama is a disaster for Libya but refuses to acknowledge Bush's role in ISIL.
The only thing we can be sure of in that this environment is not creating the much needed change for the US FP that must happen.
What restrictions ?
The ones which prevent the wholesale slaughter of innocents.
That's exactly what the right wants. We destroyed Iraq - for no reason and now the right wants to do the same in just about every other ME country.
How many times have we read some dunderhead here saying we should "bomb ISIL"? What in the world are they thinking?
Nothing. Nothing at all.And yet, somehow it escapes you that Obama has aided in the destruction of Libya, Syria and Yemen, while the left has sat back and made excuses for 7 years. Get down off your high horse.That's exactly what the right wants. We destroyed Iraq - for no reason and now the right wants to do the same in just about every other ME country.
"We strategically marched in the wrong direction."
Retired Lt. General Michael Flynn, the former U.S. special forces chief in Iraq and Afghanistan who was the country's highest ranking military intelligence official, says that the George W. Bush administration's Iraq war was a tremendous blunder that helped to create the self-proclaimed Islamic State, or ISIS.
"It was a huge error," Flynn said about the Iraq war in a detailed interview with German newspaper Der Spiegel published Sunday.
"As brutal as Saddam Hussein was, it was a mistake to just eliminate him," Flynn went on to say. "The same is true for Moammar Gadhafi and for Libya, which is now a failed state. The historic lesson is that it was a strategic failure to go into Iraq. History will not be and should not be kind with that decision."
When told by Der Spiegel reporters Matthias Gebauer and Holger Stark that the Islamic State would not "be where it is now without the fall of Baghdad," Flynn, without reservations, said: "Yes, absolutely."
Read the entire interview here.
Former Military Chief: Iraq War Was A 'Failure' That Helped Create ISIS
Ex-US Intelligence Chief on Islamic State's Rise: 'We Were Too Dumb' - SPIEGEL ONLINE
That fits with what many of us already know - and accept as fact.
You've posted no evidence so it's only your uniformed opinion.It wasn't a blunder. It was a crime.
The Arab Spring began in Tunisia in 2010-2011...yet no Muslim Brotherhood was involved..Why doesn't anyone get ISIS in the here and now?
I guess some do but most don't.
The Arab Spring bullshit was just a cover for handing over most of the ME to the MB. This should be a no brainer. And despite screwing up multiple countries that have had fairly secular governments albeit many with dictators, Obama and others are STILL trying to put the MB in Syria.
So you agree that we demobilized the German and Japanese army but somehow that means I'm still wrong.Wrong, idiot.Yes, you have to have no brains to think demobilizing the Iraqi army was a good idea. In fact, that was when I realized our Commander in Chief was not pretending to be stupid as an act to bond with the common man, he actually IS stupid.Wrong.Bush's strategic mistake was the demobilization of the Iraq army. That will go down as the biggest military blunder in US history.
The biggest blunder was leaving Iraq and failing to leave a military force.
Demobilizing an army that had been intensely loyal to Saddam was a no brainer.
We kept the German, Italian, and Japanese armies mobilized after WWII. For years. This served to stabilize those countries, and we should have used those models in Iraq.
Instead, Bush had some idiotic dream that Iraq was going to become a libertarian paradise overnight, and the Iraqi army went home with their weapons and became the bulk of the insurgency.
We demobilized the Wehrmacht after WW2.
https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1753/MR1753.ch2.pdf
We demobilized the Japanese army after WW2
Chapter 5: Demobilization and Disarmament of the Japanese Armed Forces
Bush was following precedent here. And he was correct.
Nope.
Following the unconditional surrender of the Wehrmacht, which went into effect on 8 May 1945, some Wehrmacht units remained active, either independently (e.g. in Norway), or under Allied command as police forces.
The Wermacht was not officially abolished until more than a year after VE Day.
As for Japan:
The terrific psychological tension was dissolved by the relatively simple formula of preserving the existing Japanese Government, and utilizing its normal agencies to effect the complicated processes of disarmament and demobilization.
The program for the accomplishment of this tremendous task was initiated under the provisions of several key directives in August-September 1945.
These precedents were not observed by Bush.
It was G5000, the originator of much misinformationand stupidity.Wrong.Bush's strategic mistake was the demobilization of the Iraq army. That will go down as the biggest military blunder in US history.
The biggest blunder was leaving Iraq and failing to leave a military force.
Demobilizing an army that had been intensely loyal to Saddam was a no brainer.
Wrong. The biggest blunder was the invasion of Iraq to begin with.
Followed by disbanding the Iraqi Army.
Isnt ISIS made up of a bunch of Sunni ex Iraqi Army officers and soldiers?
What's with this idiocy that the Iraqi army should never have been disbanded.
Seriously. Should we have kept the Nazi army together? Or the Japanese army together?
Who came up with this bloody stupid talking point?
Wrong.Bush's strategic mistake was the demobilization of the Iraq army. That will go down as the biggest military blunder in US history.
The biggest blunder was leaving Iraq and failing to leave a military force.
Demobilizing an army that had been intensely loyal to Saddam was a no brainer.
Who came up with this bloody stupid talking point?
So you agree that we demobilized the German and Japanese army but somehow that means I'm still wrong.Wrong, idiot.Yes, you have to have no brains to think demobilizing the Iraqi army was a good idea. In fact, that was when I realized our Commander in Chief was not pretending to be stupid as an act to bond with the common man, he actually IS stupid.Wrong.Bush's strategic mistake was the demobilization of the Iraq army. That will go down as the biggest military blunder in US history.
The biggest blunder was leaving Iraq and failing to leave a military force.
Demobilizing an army that had been intensely loyal to Saddam was a no brainer.
We kept the German, Italian, and Japanese armies mobilized after WWII. For years. This served to stabilize those countries, and we should have used those models in Iraq.
Instead, Bush had some idiotic dream that Iraq was going to become a libertarian paradise overnight, and the Iraqi army went home with their weapons and became the bulk of the insurgency.
We demobilized the Wehrmacht after WW2.
https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1753/MR1753.ch2.pdf
We demobilized the Japanese army after WW2
Chapter 5: Demobilization and Disarmament of the Japanese Armed Forces
Bush was following precedent here. And he was correct.
Nope.
Following the unconditional surrender of the Wehrmacht, which went into effect on 8 May 1945, some Wehrmacht units remained active, either independently (e.g. in Norway), or under Allied command as police forces.
The Wermacht was not officially abolished until more than a year after VE Day.
As for Japan:
The terrific psychological tension was dissolved by the relatively simple formula of preserving the existing Japanese Government, and utilizing its normal agencies to effect the complicated processes of disarmament and demobilization.
The program for the accomplishment of this tremendous task was initiated under the provisions of several key directives in August-September 1945.
These precedents were not observed by Bush.
Yeah, you just lost any credibility in this discussion.