For those who said forcing Americans to buy private insurance was Unconstitutional...

[dblack]

... Medicare is voluntary.

???

In what way is it voluntary?

 

[Wacky Quacky]

Actually, under current law, seniors who don't sign up for Medicare can be denied their Social Security benefits.

Right, that's what I meant. But none-the-less, it's all voluntary. Ryan's fix/attack or whatever you want to call it doesn't change the fact that Medicare is voluntary.

I don't think the payroll tax is voluntary. Is Ryan getting rid of the payroll tax? Is he giving seniors a voucher whether they paid in or not?

And a voucher is a voucher. It's not cash. It's a coupon.

If that's what you're talking about then hell yeah I'm pissed about being forced to pay into medicare. Why should I have to pay into a program that will be insolvent by the time I retire? And even if it did survive by some miracle of god, I still wouldn't use because I wouldn't need it.

 

[boedicca]

Right, that's what I meant. But none-the-less, it's all voluntary. Ryan's fix/attack or whatever you want to call it doesn't change the fact that Medicare is voluntary.

Medicare is currently NOT VOLUNTARY unless you wish to give up your Social Security benefits.

Yup, voluntary.

You really are an idiot. One if PUNISHED with revocation of Social Security benefits if one doens't participate. Being forced to do things under compulsion or threat is not voluntary.

 

[Wacky Quacky]

... Medicare is voluntary.

???

In what way is it voluntary?

You don't have to accept medicare benefits if you don't want to. Granted you still have to pay into it, which is bullshit, but you don't have to use the program.

 

[boedicca]

Ok then what happens to the people who opt out?

What does a emergency dr do when a patient is brought in without any knowledge of wether the person opted out or not?

They go to a charity hospital.

Under your preferred system: what happens when there are not enough providers to care for patients?

 

[Wacky Quacky]

Medicare is currently NOT VOLUNTARY unless you wish to give up your Social Security benefits.

Yup, voluntary.

You really are an idiot. One if PUNISHED with revocation of Social Security benefits if one doens't participate. Being forced to do things under compulsion or threat is not voluntary.

Losing social security is only a threat if you have done absolutely nothing to plan for your retirement. That being the case, it's your fault you put yourself in that horrible position so you'll get no sympathy from me.

 

[dblack]

You don't have to accept medicare benefits if you don't want to. Granted you still have to pay into it, which is bullshit, but you don't have to use the program.

LOL.. ok, but that's a completely specious point to make. By that logic, the individual mandate is voluntary. You don't have to use it, you just have to pay for it.

 

[boedicca]

Yup, voluntary.

You really are an idiot. One if PUNISHED with revocation of Social Security benefits if one doens't participate. Being forced to do things under compulsion or threat is not voluntary.

Losing social security is only a threat if you have done absolutely nothing to plan for your retirement. That being the case, it's your fault you put yourself in that horrible position so you'll get no sympathy from me.

That is an absolute crock of shit.

But thanks for providing this insight into your worldview.

 

[Truthmatters]

Ok then what happens to the people who opt out?

What does a emergency dr do when a patient is brought in without any knowledge of wether the person opted out or not?

They go to a charity hospital.

Under your preferred system: what happens when there are not enough providers to care for patients?

So they die on the way to a hospital when there is one much closer?

 

[B. Kidd]

I toured Philadelphia yesterday. I'd been there before, grew up near there, but my wife had never seen the Liberty Bell, Independence Hall, Society Hill, etc..
We took a carriage tour and the guide pointed out these different emblems attached to the front of various colonial row homes between the first and second floors.. She said that Ben Franklin had started the first fire insurance company in America. It was private. Each emblem represented the individual fire company that would respond if your row home caught fire. No emblem at all, no response to your fire. Different fire companies, lotsa competition, affordable for most homeowners.
That Ben Franklin was a smart guy.

 

[Wacky Quacky]

You don't have to accept medicare benefits if you don't want to. Granted you still have to pay into it, which is bullshit, but you don't have to use the program.

LOL.. ok, but that's a completely specious point to make. By that logic, the individual mandate is voluntary. You don't have to use it, you just have to pay for it.

Ah, touche. But there is still a clear difference between the two programs. One forcing you to participate under penalty of fine by taxes, the other forcing payment whether you participate or not. I guess you could say that medicare is more of an affront to our freedoms than the mandate is.

(I know I'm splitting hairs here, but come on I'm having fun)

 

[Wacky Quacky]

You really are an idiot. One if PUNISHED with revocation of Social Security benefits if one doens't participate. Being forced to do things under compulsion or threat is not voluntary.

Losing social security is only a threat if you have done absolutely nothing to plan for your retirement. That being the case, it's your fault you put yourself in that horrible position so you'll get no sympathy from me.

That is an absolute crock of shit.

But thanks for providing this insight into your worldview.

People can't plan for their own retirement and eschew the government's programs?

 

[Truthmatters]

How do you get healthcare to all it the real question.

 

[boedicca]

Losing social security is only a threat if you have done absolutely nothing to plan for your retirement. That being the case, it's your fault you put yourself in that horrible position so you'll get no sympathy from me.

That is an absolute crock of shit.

But thanks for providing this insight into your worldview.

People can't plan for their own retirement and eschew the government's programs?

Of course they can. I have - as I doubt the plans will be solvent by the time I retire.

That is absolutely beside the point. People who are eligible for the plans Right Now and are not in a position to "plan for the future" as they are already retired, can be denied Social Security benefits if they refuse to join Medicare. That it not voluntary - it's coercion on the part of a thuggish government.

 

[B. Kidd]

How do you get healthcare to all it the real question.

Breakdown barriers to competition, more companies undercutting each other, increased competition results in a price point to premiums that are affordable to most and a decrease in costs. Oh, and tort reform.
That Ben Franklin was a smart guy!

 

[daveman]

Why aren't you saying that about Ryan's kill-Medicare plan?

Which forces seniors to buy private insurance...

Ummm...what part of "you can if you want to" is forcing them?

Hmmm. Nothing. Looks like you fail.

 

[boedicca]

How do you get healthcare to all it the real question.

Wrong question.

No centralized government can get Health Care To All.

The proper question is: what is the role of government to foster a healthy economic climate so that more people are able to find jobs to support themselves now and to save for their future retirement?

 

[daveman]

So if a person takes their voucher and spends it instead of buying insurance what happens wehn they are rushed to the hospital and taken to the emergency room?

They'll realize they should have thought ahead.

 

[Charles_Main]

Why aren't you saying that about Ryan's kill-Medicare plan?

Which forces seniors to buy private insurance...

Where is it written in Ryans plan that they must buy insurance or pay a penalty to the Federal Government? It is the penalty part of the Obama Care Mandate, that makes it unconstitutional.

Giving people Vouchers so they can buy the insurance they choose, is hardly the same. I am not a huge fan of the Ryan Plan my self, but At least it is an Idea. What does your side got? Nothing. They want to ignore the problem and let Medicare fail, so all the seniors are fucked. But sitting here trying to say that if the Mandate is Unconstitutional then Ryans plan is too, is just silly. Your Argument makes no sense.

But since when have you cared about making any sense.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Why aren't you saying that about Ryan's kill-Medicare plan?

Which forces seniors to buy private insurance...

No it isn't.

It is offering them a set amount of money that would be spent anyway to choose from various privately run but government funded health pools. They are not being forced to buy anything with their own money.