For Shogun re Israel

[Shogun]

are you not gonna talk about how 800,000 jews were kicked out of muslim countries in 1948, how muslims from then to now, have treated non jews and women?, as second class citizens, or are you just going to rag on jews.

Some of things you say, can be interpreted as anti-semetic, because they sound border line anti-jew(anti israeli)

Just giving you an opinion, from a friend

You don't get to dominate others just because you were dominated. THIS is not another Canaan and no one cares about your burning bush excuse to treat other s how you have been treated. If I rounded up American's jews and treated them like israel treats pals then you'd be screaming holocaust by now. Spare me the finger pointing when you want to rationalize israels treatment of pals. I would warn you that your comments sound an awful lot like blind hatred of muslims but, it seems, thats as fashionable as anti-semitism was in germany circa 1955.

 

[Shogun]

Im sorry shogun, but this sounds retarded, and borderline anti semetic.
Your not talking about a policy of the jewish state, youre refusing to acknowledge their right to exist, and blaming them, for their neighbors irrational hatred (way to blame the victim)
Your comments hear, and some others border on anti semitism because they are against jews/an entire country.
I cant blame people for interpreting your comments as they seem them, the way you say things, and what you say gives people perceptions.
Right or wrong, if you say outlandish things, like israel has no right to exist, and if they were in texas, they would harrass texans, when ive told you numerous times, israel has 20% arab muslims, shows your not listening to me, or your lying.
all i ever hear you do, is be an apologist for pals

Zionist Israel has about as much claim to statehood as nazi Germany. Sorry, I don't support racist nations hellbent on jewish superiorty and ethnic purity.

of course you can't blame people.. who happen to be jews like yourself ready to POUNCE on the slightest crticism of israel. Do you really think it's shocking that neither they nor you will ever take the blinders of your primary concern off of your face?


AMERICA had a minority population in 1935 too, dude. That doesn't mean SHIT regarding the non-equality of that minority population. Hell, IRAN has a minority jewish population too. so fucking what. Are you ready to claim that irans jewish population makes them fair to jews? Of COURSE not. Iran is a muslim nation and, as we all know, muslims are just as fucking dirty as goyiom are.

 

[jillian]

How many from that 20% do you ever expect to see become the ISraeli PM? Now, after you answer that tell me if the chances are lesser or greater that a jew will someday be the President of the US; a actual western nation.


What do you think this says about the racist element of ethnic purity in Israel.


To a zionist and a nazi, probably not a damn thing.

What an absurd standard to apply.

How many Jews are going to get to be president of Iran? (since you think Jews are treated so well there). Lebanon? Syria? The UAE? (Come on, I'm waiting here.... let's hear it.) Jordan? Oooh, I know, Saudi Arabia? Hmmmmmmmm maybe not.

How many Jews, Muslims, Catholics, Mormons are going to get to be president of the U.S.? England? Canada? Any European, Western European, Asian, SE Asian or antipodean country?

Ridiculous as is your cute little zionist/nazi analogy.... also fallacious and absurd and, of course, not really worthy of response.

A Jew will never be president of a western nation. You and I both know that.

 

[Shogun]

Iran has never claimed to be a WESTERN NATION like israel constantly does while convenient....

Say, are you still defending ISRAELS move to allow segregation based on gender just because you've got a muslim nation to point at?


Indeed, Wasn't it ME who posted the article where irans JEWS balled bullshit on the israeli claim that iran's jews were held down by the neck? oh yea, it was.

How many JEWS are going to be president of the US? I'm fairly confident that such WILL happen. Now, do you want to make the same statement about a muslim filling the same role in ISRAEL? If not then maybe you can explain why the double standard instead of hopping back on the Scarlet A routine.


No, I don't know that a jew will never represent a western nation just like you don't know the same thing. Maybe if you stop putting YOURSELF on the whipping post just so you can collectivity feel sorry for your common ethnicity. I'd say that Joe Lieberman made it pretty fucking far and he's only one of many. Who is the Israel version of a muslim Lieberman?



a zionist rejecting the similarity of motivation behind naziism and zionism. Now THATS a shocker. Go back to defending israels choice to allow JEWS to make women sit at the back of the bus, Jill. After all, if muslims can do it then so to can the jews, right?

 

[jillian]

There will never be a Jewish president of the U.S. I know that surely as I'm sitting here. Do I hope that changes? Of course. But there are too many William Joyce types and Israel haters who mask anti-semitism with allegations of "dual loyalty" for it to happen. That's my opinion.

And don't go back to the back of the bus thing. As you may recall, I said only that there was a tension between religious and secular factions in Israel and addressed possible reasons for it. I also said, if you care to go back to my initial post on that thread (if you can find it among your other anti-Israel rants) that I don't like orthodox/fundamentalist religion of any flavor because of how women are treated. It's why I would never attend an orthodox temple (I can refer you to my father in law and the orthodox jewish man I work for if you don't believe me because they've both had to deal with my opinions on that subject).

I also said, if you care to return to the thread, that if you hadn't made it yet another Israel bash, the issue itself would have been an interesting one for discussion. But you make these issues uninteresting by a lopsided perspective that prohibits real dialogue.

As for Iran, yah, sure, it's freaking heaven for Jews. I think I'll buy three one-way plane tickets and emigrate there with my husband and son tomorrow.

On a final note, you have so much to say on Israel. Where's your rant about the wall Egypt put up to keep out terrorist Palestinians?

Oh yeah, there isn't one. But keep applying your double standard and blame it on Israel being "westernized". Not much different from your BS about Jews being responsible for the holocaust because they didn't leave Germany when *asked* to do so.

 

[Shogun]

Your opinion of pessimism based on constantly advertising how picked on jews are doesn't reflect the reality of our modern america any more than al sharpton's automatic race card applies to modern reality.


and I really don't give the first flying fuck how far you will go to RATIONALIZE the state of israel letting a section of its JEWISH population segregate bus lines according to gender. I really don't care how far you will go to make excuses for the motherland. The FACT remains that you don't have the slightest interest in putting yur zion through the same ringer that you toss muslims into like a reflex. In fact, you called me an antisemite, ONCE AGAIN go figure, for even bringing the fucking story up. I tellya, goddamn dirty goyim expecting a self-described "western nation" to actually abide by our western standard... Gosh, the jew hating antisemitism os so OBVIOUS!

Funny too, it's an "interesting discussion" when israel sins.... but when a muslim nation does the same thing? Hoooly shit sound the alarm! No, no double standard at all.


As for Iran, I've posted my evidence.. Why don't you, uh, lay off the rhetoric and abide by the same standard of EVIDENCE? oh, silly me. you've got a badge now so who needs that kind of shit? Indeed, maybe it will not be funny if you ask ME to lay off the rhetoric again.



And yes, I would have brought up the Egyptian wall but, since it is the direct product of the ISRAELI opinion that pals on holiday must herd through "proper" checkpoint I kinda figured you'd just see it as another round of anti-semitism.

After all, you'll see that last sentence as nothing more than jew-hating anti-semitims... DESPITE the fact that I can whip out an article showing the influence of israel on the hand that Egypt is playing with those pals.


Go ahead and challenge me on this. I'm sure calling me a joo hating antisemite and flexing your new muscles will work better than addressing the flaws of your own common denominator double standard.


After all, ethnic purity isn't acceptable from israel just as it wasn't from germany.. well, for us non-zionists without the team jersey at least. goddamn dirty fucking goyim and their CRAZY opinions on humanity, right?

 

[GHook93]

How many from that 20% do you ever expect to see become the ISraeli PM? Now, after you answer that tell me if the chances are lesser or greater that a jew will someday be the President of the US; a actual western nation.

What do you think this says about the racist element of ethnic purity in Israel.

To a zionist and a nazi, probably not a damn thing.

How Many Muslim , Jews or Buddists do you expect to become US presidents? There is a 0% chance that a Christian or Jew will become President in any Muslim or Arab country. And there is no chance that a Jewish American will ever be President of the US!

How many Jews and Christians are in the Syrian, Iranian, Pakistani, Iraqi, Palestinian, Egyptian or Libyian government, not many.

Yet Israeli has many Arab and Musim MKs, mayors, parliment members and they even have an Arab Supreme court judge. This samll country beats the whole Arab and Muslim world with letting minorities inot its government.
Get over yourself!

 

[GHook93]

. If I rounded up American's jews and treated them like israel treats pals then you'd be screaming holocaust by now.

Screaming Holocaust! Man your more ignorant then I thought. How could their be a Holocaust with the Palestinian population growth rate is out-doing the Israeli Jewish growth rate. What are the Israelis genociding the Palestinian by the effective method of mass-killing call old-age!

And if the Jewish American were doing what the Palestinians were doing, conducting suicide attacks, firing missiles into random cities and conducting random sniper attacks, I would hope the US government would be doing something about this!

 

[GHook93]

What an absurd standard to apply.

How many Jews are going to get to be president of Iran? (since you think Jews are treated so well there). Lebanon? Syria? The UAE? (Come on, I'm waiting here.... let's hear it.) Jordan? Oooh, I know, Saudi Arabia? Hmmmmmmmm maybe not.
.

Don't just stop at with Jews, none of these countries will every have a non-Muslim PM. All the Arab countries won't have a non-Arab PM. And Iran will never have a non-Persian President

How many Jews, Muslims, Catholics, Mormons are going to get to be president of the U.S.? England? Canada? Any European, Western European, Asian, SE Asian or antipodean country?

In all fairness the US will have a Mormon President next year! Go Romney!

Ridiculous as is your cute little zionist/nazi analogy.... also fallacious and absurd and, of course, not really worthy of response.

100% agreed!

A Jew will never be president of a western nation. You and I both know that

Not true a Jew will always be the PM of Israel and Israel is a western nation!

 

[Shogun]

Screaming Holocaust! Man your more ignorant then I thought. How could their be a Holocaust with the Palestinian population growth rate is out-doing the Israeli Jewish growth rate. What are the Israelis genociding the Palestinian by the effective method of mass-killing call old-age!

And if the Jewish American were doing what the Palestinians were doing, conducting suicide attacks, firing missiles into random cities and conducting random sniper attacks, I would hope the US government would be doing something about this!

OH, silly me... an increased birth rate obviously means that a population is NOT being suppressed by a majority population! Hell, America's own black population from the Emancipation Proc to the civil rights era indicates how true thatis!

Indeed, tell me about how much attention to give to the birth rate horse race in palisrael and what it means for your hope of ethinic purity is zion. Hell, being jewish makes you impervious to racism!

yea, the US government DID do something when OUR minority population became unravelled by state sponsored discrimination and favoratism: we forced alabama to let blacks go to college. Now, do you want to point at the US again because I sure as hell didn't see you make the slightest condemning peep when I posted the article about ISRAEL letting it's orthodox population make bitches sit at the back of the bus... But, who does that really shock?


gosh.. ANOTHER zionist jew hellbent on insisting poor little israel is a sinnless lamb grazing in the shadow of big evil muslims and antisemites...


*yawn*

 

[GHook93]

Iran has never claimed to be a WESTERN NATION like israel constantly does while convenient....

PLEASE!!!! What a convenient way to apologize for terrorist and Iran.
Besides Israel has free and open election. The only TRUE one in the Middle East. An Arab Israeli has 1 vote just like an Israeli Jew.

Indeed, Wasn't it ME who posted the article where irans JEWS balled bullshit on the israeli claim that iran's jews were held down by the neck? oh yea, it was.

Que you make no sense

How many JEWS are going to be president of the US? I'm fairly confident that such WILL happen

.
Is that your expert opinion!

Now, do you want to make the same statement about a muslim filling the same role in ISRAEL? If not then maybe you can explain why the double standard instead of hopping back on the Scarlet A routine.

Maybe its better to compare an Israeli Arab to an 9/11 truther who hates America. Since Israeli Arabs consider themselves enemies of the state. Why the hell would the Jew vote from one. Just as neither party Democrats or Republicans would vote for a white and Christian American that is a 9/11 Truther who openly calls for American destruction.
The American Jews are not enemies of the State, as Israel Arabs are to Israel!

No, I don't know that a jew will never represent a western nation just like you don't know the same thing.

On the same reasoning you don't know that Pigs will never fly!

Maybe if you stop putting YOURSELF on the whipping post just so you can collectivity feel sorry for your common ethnicity.

Hey I think my people have accomplished more with far less and with far more obstacles then anyone. I take pride in the Jewish people's accomplishment, good spirit and never give up attitude!

I'd say that Joe Lieberman made it pretty fucking far and he's only one of many.

Yep because he didn't win any primaries or caucuses! Not even 1! Now that is coming close. By that same rationale Kunich, Tacredo, Richardson, Hunter are a breath away from winning their parties nod!

Who is the Israel version of a muslim Lieberman?

Pick any American Muslim and were just as close as Lieberman to taking the Democratic ticket!

a zionist rejecting the similarity of motivation behind naziism and zionism. Now THATS a shocker.

Because there is NONE. Only the true moronic anti-semites even make such a claim, but then look at who I am addressing!

Go back to defending israels choice to allow JEWS to make women sit at the back of the bus, Jill. After all, if muslims can do it then so to can the jews, right?

This was not a state sanctioned act, it was by a radical Jew. See the difference is the police is going after the radical Jew who assault the women, rather than what would have happened in Saudi Arabia, which the Police would have arrested the girl!

 

[GHook93]

OH, silly me... an increased birth rate obviously means that a population is NOT being suppressed by a majority population!

Hey asshole, you said Holocaust (which is mass extermination with an attempt to kill the whole population) and not suppressing the population. There is a huge difference

Hell, being jewish makes you impervious to racism!

Nothing makes you impervious to racism!

yea, the US government DID do something when OUR minority population became unravelled by state sponsored discrimination and favoratism: we forced alabama to let blacks go to college. Now, do you want to point at the US again because I sure as hell didn't see you make the slightest condemning peep when I posted the article about ISRAEL letting it's orthodox population make bitches sit at the back of the bus... But, who does that really shock?

I don't need to express shock, the Israeli government has done it for me and they prosecuting the preps!

gosh.. ANOTHER zionist jew hellbent on insisting poor little israel is a sinnless lamb grazing in the shadow of big evil muslims and antisemites...

Never said they were sinless, they are just nothing you make them out to be!

 

[Shogun]

PLEASE!!!! What a convenient way to apologize for terrorist and Iran.
Besides Israel has free and open election. The only TRUE one in the Middle East. An Arab Israeli has 1 vote just like an Israeli Jew.


Who is the one apologizing for militant behaviour? Between israel and iran which nation is the only one to invade ANY nation in the last 30 years? Indeed, having one vote in 1945 meant a lot to America's blacks too, didn't it? i'm going to bludgeon you with facts every time you want to compare israel to the US, an actual western nation, or try to validate shit in israel by pointing at muslims.


Que you make no sense


My posted evidence made enough sense to keep you from making nary the slightest criticism of israeli segregation based on gender. Maybe if you were less busy screaming antisemite than actually taking the time to consider that, in fact, your zionist daydream might not be as infallable as you really, really want it to be after all....



Is that your expert opinion!

It's a fairly obvious observation. America allowed a catholic man the white house regardless of ties to the vatican. We have a mormon is the last stretch as a viable contender despite his link to mormonism. Yes, we will probably have a jewish president just like we are on the verge of a black president a mere 40 years after our own civil irghts drama. Now, I realize that acknowledging as much probably takes away from your "poor me, everyone picks on me, blank check please" reflex but accusing the US of overwhelming antisemitism, DESPITE OUR ETERNAL AID TO ISRAEL, is not only dumb as hell but makes your boohoo routine rather transparent.


Maybe its better to compare an Israeli Arab to an 9/11 truther who hates America. Since Israeli Arabs consider themselves enemies of the state. Why the hell would the Jew vote from one. Just as neither party Democrats or Republicans would vote for a white and Christian American that is a 9/11 Truther who openly calls for American destruction.
The American Jews are not enemies of the State, like Israel Arabs are to Israel!


HA! and here you are calling ME a racist! Yes, why on EARTH would a white guy in the states vote for a black man. Gee. Way to stereotype some muslims, dude... gosh, anyone care to predict Ghooks reaction to asking why any goyim would vote for joe "let's bomb iran for the sake of israel" lieberman?

So, I guess according to YOUR logic, Germany's jews were Enemies of the state and DESERVED the purge of the holocaust, right? Gosh, all of a sudden state-sponsored racism is EVIL. Way to be consistent, buddy! Your opinion is quite a joke.


On the same reasoning you don't know that Pigs will never fly!

Clearly SOMEONE must maintain their "victim" status. I wonder why.


Hey I think my people have accomplished more with far less and with far more obstacles then anyone. I take pride in the Jewish people's accomplishment, good spirit and never give up attitude!


Not to mention the handouts they enjoy while maintaining a double standard based on the constant boohoojoo routine, eh? Try considering what israel would have accomplished WITHOUT the training wheels of the west for support.


Yep because he did win any primaries or caucuses! Now that is coming close. By that same rationale Kunich, Tacredo, Richardson, Hunter are a breath away from winning their parties nod!


Lieberman's status in the US is greater than anything we'll ever see israel grant to a muslim. Clearly, you have learned how to capitolize on the victim routine.


Pick any American Muslim and were just as close as Lieberman to taking the Democratic ticket!


and YET the man still won the fucking independant vote and is STILL in office. Gosh, can you be any easier to kick in the teeth?



Because there is NONE. Only the true moronic anti-semites even make such a claim, but then look at who I am addressing!


Im BESIDE myself with SHOCK that a zionist jew refuses to see the similarity between the nazi desire for an ethnically pure state and the zionist desire for the same! It's totally CRAZY that a zionist jew, hellbent on demonizing muslim, would fail to see how israels treatment of pals is the exact same motivation that aryans had.. WOW. i'm totally flabbergasted!


This was not a state sanctioned act, it was by a radical Jew. See the difference is the police is going after the radical Jew who assault the women, rather than what would have happened in Saudi Arabia, which the Police would have arrested the girl!


You are simply fucking wrong. Shall I dig up the article and repost again? Just say the word, zionist. I'm not the one relying on racism to facilitate my perspective, dude. When ISRAEL allows it's orthodox population to dictate seating by gender then, YES, it very much is state sanctioned. SHOCKER that a zionist jew would insist otherwise and then totally misconstrue the actual circumstance.


Like I said, say the word and I'll post the article again with highlighted proofthat you are a racist, zionist-blind piece of the same excrement that made the holocaust happen.

 

[Shogun]

Hey asshole, you said Holocaust (which is mass extermination with an attempt to kill the whole population) and not suppressing the population. There is a huge difference

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/holocaust

Here, learn some fucking vocabulary instead of getting tears on the carpet. And yes, i'd say the entire israeli treatment of the pals since 1948 falls well within the definition. You DONT? Holy SHIT! You mean it? a zionist jew thinks there is a double standard on the application of nomenclature describing a dominant jewish population kicking pals in the next for 40 years?!?!?! Holy SHIT, say it isn't SO!



Nothing makes you impervious to racism!

of COURSE not! Im not SHOSEN enough to wear that mantle.


I don't need to express shock, the Israeli government has done it for me and they prosecuting the preps!

post a source instead of assuming the best of your fellow jews. I just busted you making shit up.

Never said they were sinless, they are just nothing you make them out to be!



Indeed, you prove that to be the case every time you polish the israli halo despite the fact that you are defending action against pals that you would NEVER accept applied to jews. Hey, maybe we can cluster bomb some civilians in Lebenon if they don't respond to being called antisemites! Sieged pal population starving to the point of breaking into Egypt? THEY DESERVE IT! You know, just like our blacks deserved a camp of their own during the 60s!

Like I said, it's no shocker why you are on eternal halo polishing mode. It's too bad your concern for humanity doesn't extend beyond who is and who isn't circumcised.

 

[Paulie]

Lieberman was THIS CLOSE to being the vice president. He actually won the popular vote, and we all know the rest of that story.

It's a little ignorant to say that a Jew will never be president. Had Gore won in 2000, Lieberman would have only been one terrible tragedy away from being president.

Many will argue that, especially after seeing how Cheney has run the office of VP, that VP is as good as Pres.

 

[GHook93]

Palestinians have one of the highest birth rates in the world!

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1202246355071&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

Let's see, 1 million people increase in only 10 years. One of the highest in the world. What is Israel's perferred method of genocide - old age & natural causes! Now that is not an ideal way to bring about genocide!

 

[Shogun]

Lieberman was THIS CLOSE to being the vice president. He actually won the popular vote, and we all know the rest of that story.

It's a little ignorant to say that a Jew will never be president. Had Gore won in 2000, Lieberman would have only been one terrible tragedy away from being president.

Many will argue that, especially after seeing how Cheney has run the office of VP, that VP is as good as Pres.

no shit.

notice that he won't come close to admitting this though. Why? because it's easier to call someone a jew hating antisemite than have to give up the blank check.


And, again, ghook, America also had a population EXPLOSION of blacks during the hundred years between the emancipation proclamation and 1602 era civil rights. What, EXACTLY, does that say about a population boom as evidence of fair treatment, being socially marginalized, and being a state accepted scapegoat to be demonized?


whoops! Using history for reference instead of the Scarlet Letter reaction... gosh, what a joo hating antisemite I am!

 

[Paulie]

What does it really even matter if a Jew never becomes president...

There are enough Jews scattered throughout the US government in very high places, to where Jewish influence in American policy has it's prominence. High ranking senators, congressmen, the Atty. Gen, the DHS Secretary, many within the DoD, past & present administrations...

A Jew becoming president would only really be aesthetic, considering the president doesn't have a whole lot of personal influence over the country, anyway.

 

[Shogun]

Why is it relevant?


It's a huge lesson in what an ACTUAL western democracy is capable of when it is not trying to preserve the superiority of any one ethnicity. Like, say, an isreal who will never concieve the possibility of an arab PM. Some people hold a giant double standard when it comes to rationalizing the new master race and state sanctioned racism in israel. SOME would like to boohoo you into another blank check despite reality.

 

[GHook93]

What does it really even matter if a Jew never becomes president...

There are enough Jews scattered throughout the US government in very high places, to where Jewish influence in American policy has it's prominence. High ranking senators, congressmen, the Atty. Gen, the DHS Secretary, many within the DoD, past & present administrations...

A Jew becoming president would only really be aesthetic, considering the president doesn't have a whole lot of personal influence over the country, anyway.

It matters because the ever anti-semitic Shogun uses the ever ignorant argument that Israel is racist because an Arab will never be the PM. While it is not apples to apples to compare a Jews chance of becoming the US Presidents as to an Israeli Arab becoming PM, mainly because Jews are not really enemies of the state in the US and most Israeli Arabs see themselves as enemies of the state. Nevertheless the point still stands.

What you can show is that Israeli Arabs (much as like the Jewish Americans) hold other places in the Israeli government. 12 of the 120 parliment seats are held by Arab Israeli (the is 10%!), Arabs are town mayors and there is even an Arab Supreme Court justice!