? for liberals

[Isaac Brock]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Isaac, partisanship is quite apparent in your analysis of the difference between liberal and conservative approaches.

Conservatives design policy based on reason and results.
liberals design policy based on emotion and good intentions, and even ignore reason and results when confronted with them.

With all due respect, that's bullocks. I agree with many aspects of liberalism, but I'm not blind sided by them. I agreed that the war in afghanistan was necessary, i believe in economic conservatism as the best economy policy and am against gun control.

However, to say, essentially, the liberalism is dumb and only based on good intentions and say that conservatism is the only rational course is an over simplifivation to say the least. If my reponse showed partisanship, I dare say you are the pot calling the kettle black my friend.

 

[nbdysfu]

originally posted by big d
Finding out why someone commited a crime is a good idea,
using the reason why someone commits a crime as a excuse is a liberal idea.
_______________________

Do you mean to say that we should look for the outside factors which led a person to a crime, but not excuse the person for the crime?

Nice.

If the research into why is used to prevent further crime I agree with you, but I think the government should make a point of not allowing crime to become a way to bring rewards to causes, or attention to the committer as a victim. That would mean the end of government.

 

[Big D]

Isaac,

No need for a apology, I really can't recall you saying anything that offended me.

As for this thread, I can't ask any better questions for people with liberal believes then does the link I left to start this thread.

But as the article says, liberals will not answer:

http://www.americandaily.com/nucleus/plugins/print/print.php?itemid=3869

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by Kathianne
Liberals have a problem, they refuse to criticise when justified. Because of this refusal, they are left in the position of turning to a Nader when they can't reconcile their beliefs with their candidates proclamations, and turn to a Nader.

Conservatives will withold their $ to get a message across. They also will give, and then SAY that it's in SPITE of the stupid blunder. The other side though is wrong too often to switch to, so the blunderer will get the votes, though not always the bucks.

Unfortunately, Liberals have no more idea of what they are trying to liberate than Conservatives have of what they are trying to conserve.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
Unfortunately, Liberals have no more idea of what they are trying to liberate than Conservatives have of what they are trying to conserve.

Being stuck on those narrow, literalist definitions is very intellectually unattractive, BP. I just though you should know.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Being stuck on those narrow, literalist definitions is very intellectually unattractive, BP. I just though you should know.

Nothing literal about them, just making a general observation.

 

[Annie]

Seems to me that 'liberals' or rather progressives used to stand for 'big ideas' based on 'ideals', something that is possible from any party, but today appears absent from the Democratic Party. What's really sad is there was a time not so long ago, that it would be only the DNC that one was referring to, now with the rising partisanship on both sides, it has filtered down to the base, not just the extreme left-wing of that party. Just a couple ideals that I've seen perverted over the past years:

civil rights:race card tax reform:class wars
environment:anti-business civil liberties:tax the rich; gun
control
women's rights:abortion on demand, regardless of viability
education for 'all':make schools responsible for social engineering
and indoctrination

The base of the GOP on the other hand, and the BASE is not the far-right wing, does in a broad sense still holds to some basic principles, which is why under the foreign threats today, GW would have to go way out of his way, (not that he isn't trying domestically), to alienate them:

(Remember, this is the base, not the administration):

limited government, with limited taxes
security, domestic and foreign
civil liberties, including those not p.c.
free public edcation, where parents, students and teachers are held responsible for their roles.
local control under the 10th Ammendment, including education and abortion

Actually this fits with the past 20 years of elections. The democratic base has been firmly with the party, but the left wing can easily be siphoned off by a 3rd party candidate. The base however stays with the DNC. However the problem is the base is made up of special interests which must always be catered to. (The Hispanic bloc, the African-American bloc, the feminists, the gays, the labor bloc, etc.)

The GOP is actually more vunerable to a known candidate, who if (s)he was to form a 3rd party, for some reason, if it appeared possible and the candidate had the resources, (s)he could mount a campaign appealing to many more voters. Not that either is still seeking office, but both Howard Baker and Alan Simpson are two that may have been able to pull this off.

 

[Bern80]

What is the the difference?

Well, it's probably difficult for any of us to define both of them w/o the other side accusing one of being biased in their definition. I actually attempted to find an objective definition of both terms that was conprehenisble. Believe it or not I found one. Yes, the liberal side will say it is biased due to the source, but it is from a book called "Letters to a Young Conservative" by Dinesh D'Souza. It basically lists the characteristics of both groups of people in terms of their values and peronal beliefs in a very unbiased manner that I think all would agree with. I want to get it right, but don't have in front of me. Stayed tuned and tell me what you think.




I believe as well, as someone said earlier, that it is important to tackle the root of a problem. However, there is a fine line between doing this and making excuses for people that liberals usually seem to cross.

 

[Annie]

From what I could find, I look forward to. For my more gifted students, might even consider putting on summer reading list.

http://www.townhall.com/bookclub/dsouza2.html

Letters to a Young Conservative
By Dinesh D'Souza

Review by Jonathan Garthwaite

I had a chance to read Dinesh D'Souza's new book, Letters to a Young Conservative, this past weekend, and consider it a must-read for today's youth and especially those heading off to college.

The country's universities are breeding grounds for liberal ideology and Dinesh's book is a staple for all conservative undergrads' libraries if they are to fight the intellectual battles ahead of them.

In this series of letters to a college student, Dinesh draws on many of the dramatic and hair-raising experiences he's been through in his years of confronting the Left.

One after another, Dinesh exposes the feminists, multiculturalists, and liberal professors.

He covers:

How liberal judges have effectively rewritten the Constitution so drastically that Jefferson and Madison wouldn't recognize it,
How to devastate liberal arguments by using the words of liberals themselves,
The great error of feminism - and why women are now competing with men in a domain where they are likely to lose,
Two challenges that the Republican Party must face if it's going to win enduring majority status,
and why liberals hate America.

Whether you're just starting out, or you've been fighting the liberals for years, or you have a child about to head off to college, this book is one you'll want to have in your home.

Being a conservative on a college campus is not easy. Don't leave home without the intellectual ammunition you'll need to defend your beliefs.

I've made it possible for you to get a copy of Dinesh's book at a significant discount. I think you'll find the lessons of Dinesh's experiences very valuable.

 

[Bern80]

Originally posted by Kathianne
.
Being a conservative on a college campus is not easy. Don't leave home without the intellectual ammunition you'll need to defend your beliefs.

That is an excellent point. I am one year out of college w/ a degree in political science. While I truly loved my college experience, battling the bleeding hearts is a full time job. So, much so that me and a couple friends started a club called Students Fostering Conservative Thought. For a club just starting out it was probably one of the more successful ones as far as participation goes. The same semester the club was started we were able to get a speaker on campus, Dan Flynn who wrote "Why the Left Hates America." He was a tad condescending but we wanted to create a stir right away.

Sadly, it has come to my knowledge that the group has not received full club status, because a liberal in position of passing clubs feels it is too much like College Republicans. Apparently the don't know the difference b/t a political party and an ideology.

There is plenty of support among most student bodies for conservativism. they just need a way to organize.

 

[Annie]

If you need adopting, which I'm sure you don't, write me! I'd be proud to call you one of my own.

I'm nearly 50, working on my MS in education administration, (don't ask, I'm a masochist), the PC requirement is nearly more than I can take, but heh, I know how to swallow.

 

[Bern80]

No i don't, but thanks for the offer. My allmamater(don't know if I spelled that right) could use a new Dean of Students or Director of Student Activities though, (though they don't know that). Maybe you could make a case for putting a little right minded thinking into the administration. That is as long as you can handle winters in MN.

 

[Annie]

MN? Brrr. Thanks Chi-town is cold enough. Complete the MS and heading South.

Why would I assume a right-minded youngster as yourself would not need adopting? pshaw

 

[Isaac Brock]

Originally posted by Big D
Isaac,

No need for a apology, I really can't recall you saying anything that offended me.

As for this thread, I can't ask any better questions for people with liberal believes then does the link I left to start this thread.

But as the article says, liberals will not answer:

http://www.americandaily.com/nucleus/plugins/print/print.php?itemid=3869

I answer, DK answers, others on here answer and many are indeed intelligent liberals. The question is do you listen?

Half the problem with the whole liberal vs. conservative debate is that no one really listens to eachother. Sure, they hear, but often dismiss sometimes with good cause, but very often they dismiss ideas simply because it is "hippy crap" or "fascist doctrine". Give me a break.

The best example is how whenever there is a shift in the presidency. Each side calls out nothing less than bloody murder on each president of the opposing party. Perhaps I am making an overall generalized, but will all due respect to the parties on this board, a simple look through past posts on presidencies will indeed confirm that point.

 

[Annie]

Issac, no disrespect meant, but I just read through the thread, can't pin down what you are basing this on.

 

[Bern80]

Originally posted by Kathianne
MN? Brrr. Thanks Chi-town is cold enough. Complete the MS and heading South.

Why would I assume a right-minded youngster as yourself would not need adopting? pshaw

Because i was born and raised in northern MN as a hunter where the school district intentional schedules days off of school for deer and fishing opener.

 

[Annie]

LOL good answer. Let me sound like a 'mom' for a moment. Somewhere along the line you were required to assume responsibility for your actions. My guess, your parents. I could be wrong, could be a substitute such as grandparents, but usually at the age of college graduation that you are 'so sure' I'm betting there were good folk.

 

[Isaac Brock]

Originally posted by Kathianne
Issac, no disrespect meant, but I just read through the thread, can't pin down what you are basing this on.

My apologies Kathianne. I certinaly should have been more specific! I was referring to this board's other threads concerning where some liberals bashed Bush and conservatives bashed Clinton. I found some of the conversations to be somewhat blindly critical on both sides.

 

[Annie]

Ok, that's understandable. As I posted 'somewhere' I feel that 'liberals' have lost their way. No longer dealing with ideals, but ideologies. I think the reason that so many Americans are now leaning GOP is that there is some clarity of what is expected:

dealing with terrorism; lowering taxes; educating children at a local level, (contrary to LNCB); civil liberties, including 2nd amendment; 10th amendment.

 

[DKSuddeth]

One of the major issues we deal with when it comes to conservative vs. liberal is this outlined below:

How liberal judges have effectively rewritten the Constitution so drastically that Jefferson and Madison wouldn't recognize it,

This is a joke, what exactly do you mean by this and state the points in a somewhat linear fashion.

How to devastate liberal arguments by using the words of liberals themselves,

This is also a joke, You cannot hold a reasonable and intelligent debate when one side refuses to listen, be it conservative or liberal, misguided or intelligent.

Two challenges that the Republican Party must face if it's going to win enduring majority status,

when did it become a point of 'winning' instead of striving together to make the country better? Thats exactly why we have the division in this country that we do. Its come down to 'I'm right, therefore those who believe differently are wrong' and damn it, thats just plain wrong.

and why liberals hate America.

I hate this most of all, not only because its erroneous in nature, but its a complete and utter fabricated lie to promote conservatism and the republican party in general.

The misguided ideology by the republicans that think being conservative is the ONLY way for the country to function smacks of an arrogance that should not be tolerated in this, or any other lifetime.