? for liberals

Originally posted by Kathianne
Nice response Eric, I was thinking of something along the same lines. I've been hearing libs say that their patriotism is being questioned, and have wondered, 'Where?' RW is doing just that.

Personally it's not patriotism I question, sometimes just common sense.

As a Canadian I don't think it's necessarily appropriate to comment on this, but I will try if you will allow me to indulge. Actually I'll take this a bit further and provide a point on each side.

For liberals, if think the most common calling of unpatriotism in the USA is either with the homeland security or the war in iraq. For brevity's sake I'll just take about the opposition to the war in Iraq. I think it's fair to say and correct me if i'm wrong, but the common mentality is that you're against the war on terrorism if you were against the Iraq war. Although some link have been suggested, I don't think there has been a smoking gun and I think in many cases. The whole opposition has meant that liberals have often been branded as un-american, where liberals, I think believe, rightly or wrongly depending on your point of view, that they are doing America a service in their stance.

However this isn't liberal only phenomena, during the Clinton years, conservatives who were against some of the social reforms such as Medicare (isn't that what it is referred to in the states) or tax relieft for the poor at the expense of the rich, where consider to be anti-poor and heartless. Conservatives view was that economic trickle down would be a better benefit to the poor or rather that handouts would cause greater social plague. Liberals came down just as hard then, and rightly or wrongly intellectual conservatives did what they thought were right.

I strongly believe partisanship is undermining America, but have no other solution other than to search for consensus or a third way, neither of which I can see as a viable solution for the forseeable future. However what is transparent is that there is an endemic problem in the way opposition is viewed.
 
Originally posted by Isaac Brock
As a Canadian I don't think it's necessarily appropriate to comment on this, but I will try if you will allow me to indulge. Actually I'll take this a bit further and provide a point on each side.

For liberals, if think the most common calling of unpatriotism in the USA is either with the homeland security or the war in iraq. For brevity's sake I'll just take about the opposition to the war in Iraq. I think it's fair to say and correct me if i'm wrong, but the common mentality is that you're against the war on terrorism if you were against the Iraq war.




The thing is, that's it's nearly impossible to deny that invading Iraq and toppling Saddam, was a great achievement towards winning the war on terrorism (See iraq allqaeda connections thread), and a great liberation of his people, not to mention a simple enforcement of U.N. resolutions. So to say you support the war on terrorism, but are against the Iraqi invasion seems a contradictory position, devoid of logic and primarily politically motivated.
Although some link have been suggested, I don't think there has been a smoking gun and I think in many cases. The whole opposition has meant that liberals have often been branded as un-american, where liberals, I think believe, rightly or wrongly depending on your point of view, that they are doing America a service in their stance.

However this isn't liberal only phenomena, during the Clinton years, conservatives who were against some of the social reforms such as Medicare (isn't that what it is referred to in the states) or tax relieft for the poor at the expense of the rich, where consider to be anti-poor and heartless. Conservatives view was that economic trickle down would be a better benefit to the poor or rather that handouts would cause greater social plague. Liberals came down just as hard then, and rightly or wrongly intellectual conservatives did what they thought were right.

I strongly believe partisanship is undermining America, but have no other solution other than to search for consensus or a third way, neither of which I can see as a viable solution for the forseeable future. However what is transparent is that there is an endemic problem in the way opposition is viewed.

Yes, and both sides think they're right, and yes, opposition is the problem. Can't we just all get along? :clap1:
 
The thing is, that's it's nearly impossible to deny that invading Iraq and toppling Saddam, was a great achievement towards winning the war on terrorism (See iraq allqaeda connections thread), and a great liberation of his people, not to mention a simple enforcement of U.N. resolutions. So to say you support the war on terrorism, but are against the Iraqi invasion seems a contradictory position, devoid of logic and primarily politically motivated.

You are delusional.:laugh:
 
that's it's nearly impossible to deny that invading Iraq and toppling Saddam, was a great achievement towards winning the war on terrorism (See iraq allqaeda connections thread)

and at this point, its not been proven either. therefore its alleged. whether it truly existed or not may never be proven
 
Originally posted by DKSuddeth
and at this point, its not been proven either. therefore its alleged. whether it truly existed or not may never be proven

You're hilarious. Are you a nitpicker? This reminds me of The Brady Bunch "exact words" episode.
 
is colin powell lying?

you keep saying that iraq and al qaeda are connected but its not proven. are you hoping that people will just believe it?
 
Originally posted by DKSuddeth
is colin powell lying?

you keep saying that iraq and al qaeda are connected but its not proven. are you hoping that people will just believe it?

Not lying exactly. The data is out there. The administration is not making the argument so that their opposition will go so far in "there's no connection" propaganda that they will never get back to a reasonable position by election time. It's staring you right in the face, but you refuse to see it. If you guys want to ever win another election, you better learn to accept overwhelming evidence or suffer the fate of looking like foolish losers in perpetuity.
 
Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Not lying exactly. The data is out there. The administration is not making the argument so that their opposition will go so far in "there's no connection" propaganda that they will never get back to a reasonable position by election time. It's staring you right in the face, but you refuse to see it. If you guys want to ever win another election, you better learn to accept overwhelming evidence or suffer the fate of looking like foolish losers in perpetuity.

now that one is suitable for a tin foil hat if I ever saw one.

:clap: :clap: :clap:
 
Originally posted by DKSuddeth
now that one is suitable for a tin foil hat if I ever saw one.

:clap: :clap: :clap:


No substance. No logical refutation, just fluff and insult. Yawn.
 
Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
No substance. No logical refutation, just fluff and insult. Yawn.

call it like I see it RWA. It actually should be a very familiar looking argument to you, seeing how you like to call any liberal statement of fact a 'conspiracy theory' when theres no reputable proof with it. Rather hypocritical of you, wouldn't you agree?
 
Originally posted by DKSuddeth
call it like I see it RWA. It actually should be a very familiar looking argument to you, seeing how you like to call any liberal statement of fact a 'conspiracy theory' when theres no reputable proof with it. Rather hypocritical of you, wouldn't you agree?

Which liberal statements of fact are you referring to? "George Bush is a nazi"?
 

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