Flip-Flopper

Discussion in 'Politics' started by MJDuncan1982, Aug 4, 2004.

  1. MJDuncan1982
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    MJDuncan1982 Member

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    It seems to me that calling Kerry a flip-flopper is not an insult. People change their minds all the time - it is a sign of intelligence. It would be absolutely ridiculous for a person to not flip-flop when presented with new intelligence. Think of all the great "flip-flops" in history:

    WWII
    Pre-Pearl Harbor: Not important for America to join war
    Post-Pearl Harbor: Important for America to join war

    Slavery
    Pre-Civil War: Not a bad idea
    Post-Civil War: Bad idea

    Terrorism
    Pre-9/11: Bin Laden sucks but not big enough threat to invade countries
    Post-9/11: Bin Laden is such a threat Afghanistan must be invaded

    I fear the man who does not change his mind. Bush did it. He was originally opposed to creating a Department of Homeland Security but realized one might be needed. He was opposed to the 9/11 Commission but is now implementing its recommendations.

    Flip-flopping, as the word is used to describe Kerry, is a sign of mental maturity. Never changing one's mind means nothing has been learned from experience.
     
  2. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    Seldom though in the same paragraph.
     
  3. MJDuncan1982
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    MJDuncan1982 Member

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    To what are you referring? The 87 Billion line?
     
  4. Scorio
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    Scorio Rookie

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    ya but flat out lying is a bad idea when the people you served with are still alive to tell the truth about you.
     
  5. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    Of course. Openings like that do not come along often. :beer: That aside, there are many issues, including at the convention where he is saying one thing, voting record says something else, and interviews something again.

    It's all very difficult to follow. :eek2:
     
  6. MJDuncan1982
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    MJDuncan1982 Member

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    Here's what I can tell happened:

    There were two separate bills: One co-sponsored by Kerry and one by Bush

    Both provided $87 billion for Iraq

    Difference: Kerry's got funding by repealing tax cuts given to richest individuals while Bush's got funding through borrowing.

    Kerry VOTED FOR his version of the bill which lost 57-42 and then VOTED AGAINST the other version.

    Yes, it was terrible wording on his part because he did not make the distinction between the two bills.
     
  7. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    I'm not going to check it out now, but that still doesn't address the 'pro-military' kerfuffle last Thursday and his voting record. It doesn't change the 'postive campaign' = I don't want to speak about the last 20 years. Or for that matter why he's calling for an 'emergency session' of the Senate, when he has failed to vote 99%, whoops I exaggerated. This year he was there 66% of the time this year, last year 72% of the time.(Congressional Quarterly)
     
  8. MJDuncan1982
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    MJDuncan1982 Member

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    This is for everyone: Great non-partisan site to help us squeeze out the truth while discussing (or yelling) with each other.

    www.factcheck.org
     
  9. 5stringJeff
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    5stringJeff Senior Member

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    WWII: We were already supporting England against Germany. Our relations with Japan were already soured by 1941. It's not like we did a 180 degree turn. But when your country is attacked, then you have two options: fight back or surrender.

    Civil War: Abolitionists were already turning public opinion in the early 1800's. The U.S. did not wake up in April 1865 and say "Wait! Let's totally change our social structure!" This change took decades to occur.

    9/11: bin Laden and al-Qaeda attack. We attack back. See comments under WWII.

    I fail to see how these changes of events can be compared to Kerry's flip-flops - for the war, against the war, etc.
     
  10. MJDuncan1982
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    MJDuncan1982 Member

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    That is my point as to how ridiculous the whole flip-flopper thing is. Upon closer investigation, things which appear to be flip-flops have reasonable explanations. Just as with Kerry and his 87 Billion remark which is just as explanable.
     

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