Finally! Special Counsel Called For To Investigate Criminally Biased FBI

[SavannahMann]

Unbelievable how Trump is disbanding the FBI. The GOP is at it again. How long must it go on? You right wingers are crazy nuts.

This is something I’ve never understood. Perhaps you can help me out here. Which FBI are we talking about? Is this the same FBI that ignored warnings about the Boston Marathon Bombing Guys because of a typo? Or is this the FBI that routinely scans for information on people’s Cell Phones using Stingray? Or is this the FBI that continues to use Hooveresque style abuses like the Carnivore Email scanning systems?

How about this. Is this the same FBI who put how many people in prison with the Junk Science technique of “lead matching”?

That is the problem with the FBI. When you look at the long history, you inevitably find abuses, violations, and flat assed criminality. Nothing has really changed since the days of Hoover. I mean, you could read the old Fred Cook book “The FBI nobody knows” today, and it would be essentially the same. If the book was written today, it would be the same.

So why now, are so many putting the FBI up on a pedestal? I mean, I get that you hate Trump. Fine. Whatever. But do you have to defend a group of crooks like the FBI to do it? I get the whole enemy of my enemy thing but really, do you realize what happens if you win? The FBI is back to the days of Hoover in full. It is beyond the laws of mere mortals again. It is once again untouchable. Is that really good for any of us? I get that you’re willing to take that chance because you hate Trump, and it looks like they are on your side, but do you really want a group of untouchables able to make or break political figures on a whim?

Any thoughts you have on this would be welcome. Well perhaps other than I am somehow automatically a racist, sexist, homophobic, hate filled, nut just because I don’t think Trump should be skinned alive while being drawn and quartered.

The cops are more crooked than the FBI. Look at the FBI site , they do a lot. A lot of cops in the cities are corrupt and even in small towns.

Regardless of Trump , if you say one thing neg about him, you are out of a job, we are becoming a banana republic.

Is there a difference between a bank robber and a guy who robs a gas station? Both are robbers. Thieves. Arguing that we can’t criticize the FBI because they are less corrupt in your opinion than local cops is ignoring the big point. They are still corrupt by your own admission.

FBI agents have gotten away with murder just like the local cops. FBI agents violate the law with impunity. I did not approve of the FBI under Bush. I did not suddenly approve of them under Obama. I am damn sure not going to become a cheerleader because of Trump.

Either your beliefs are based upon principles or they are worthless. Decide what you believe. Decide what your core beliefs are. Then stand for them. That is always worthy of respect. I may disagree with you on the issues. But arguing that Trump is awful for destroying an admittedly corrupt organization is not a core belief.

Because if the FBI survives this intact they will be unstoppable in the future.

I am, and the FBI , although some may be crooked, is not J.E Hoover anymore.

Oh God no. Hoover only dreamed of being able to collect some of the information that they get now. Stingray, Carnivore, and other collection programs were a fantasy for Hoover.

I mean Hoover could do an illegal wiretap. But he couldn’t tap all the phones. You could get around it by using pay phones before. Now. The FBI can activate the microphone in your pocket and record anything you say.

KTRE

Tracking the person you are interested in used to be a big production. Dozens of agents all switching in and out so the subject wouldn’t see the same face often enough to remember it. Now. Just track their cell phones. One agent can watch dozens of people in real time. Or hundreds. Or even thousands.

No. This is not Hoover’s FBI. If it was Hoover would have had an erection explode from the sheer joy.

 

[Correll]

Strzok was stupid for emailing, but I think all the republicans felt the same way about Trump, even after he became the nominee.

Working class Americans support Trump. That’s what matters most.

No the wealthy Americans support him. People are afraid of him, people are afraid of speaking up. The GOP are protecting whatever Republican is in office, even though they despise him, they did during Watergate as well.

The Wealthy supported the status quo candidate, Hillary.

 

[SavannahMann]

This is something I’ve never understood. Perhaps you can help me out here. Which FBI are we talking about? Is this the same FBI that ignored warnings about the Boston Marathon Bombing Guys because of a typo? Or is this the FBI that routinely scans for information on people’s Cell Phones using Stingray? Or is this the FBI that continues to use Hooveresque style abuses like the Carnivore Email scanning systems?

How about this. Is this the same FBI who put how many people in prison with the Junk Science technique of “lead matching”?

That is the problem with the FBI. When you look at the long history, you inevitably find abuses, violations, and flat assed criminality. Nothing has really changed since the days of Hoover. I mean, you could read the old Fred Cook book “The FBI nobody knows” today, and it would be essentially the same. If the book was written today, it would be the same.

So why now, are so many putting the FBI up on a pedestal? I mean, I get that you hate Trump. Fine. Whatever. But do you have to defend a group of crooks like the FBI to do it? I get the whole enemy of my enemy thing but really, do you realize what happens if you win? The FBI is back to the days of Hoover in full. It is beyond the laws of mere mortals again. It is once again untouchable. Is that really good for any of us? I get that you’re willing to take that chance because you hate Trump, and it looks like they are on your side, but do you really want a group of untouchables able to make or break political figures on a whim?

Any thoughts you have on this would be welcome. Well perhaps other than I am somehow automatically a racist, sexist, homophobic, hate filled, nut just because I don’t think Trump should be skinned alive while being drawn and quartered.

The cops are more crooked than the FBI. Look at the FBI site , they do a lot. A lot of cops in the cities are corrupt and even in small towns.

Regardless of Trump , if you say one thing neg about him, you are out of a job, we are becoming a banana republic.

Is there a difference between a bank robber and a guy who robs a gas station? Both are robbers. Thieves. Arguing that we can’t criticize the FBI because they are less corrupt in your opinion than local cops is ignoring the big point. They are still corrupt by your own admission.

FBI agents have gotten away with murder just like the local cops. FBI agents violate the law with impunity. I did not approve of the FBI under Bush. I did not suddenly approve of them under Obama. I am damn sure not going to become a cheerleader because of Trump.

Either your beliefs are based upon principles or they are worthless. Decide what you believe. Decide what your core beliefs are. Then stand for them. That is always worthy of respect. I may disagree with you on the issues. But arguing that Trump is awful for destroying an admittedly corrupt organization is not a core belief.

Because if the FBI survives this intact they will be unstoppable in the future.

This does not really address the specific example though. Trump has not attacked the FBI because they are corrupt - he has attacked them because of the Russia investigation and the email investigation. Corrupt or not, you would have to establish how those specific examples are corrupt for it to have any meaning.

Obviously you haven’t heard about Lead Matching. This is literally the definition of Junk Science. Yet the FBI used it in convictions for decades. The idea is that every batch of lead from a smelter was a little different. By comparing bullets too mangled to be matched by rifling to a weapon, or when the weapon was not located, they could match it to batches of bullets to show it came from a lot of ammunition in the defendants possession.

The Basis for Compositional Bullet Lead Comparisons, Forensic Science Communications, July 2002

When outside Labs wanted to know how this test was done so they could confirm the findings, the FBI answer told you right away that the entire thing was bullshit. The FBI maintained that only their laboratory could process this kind of evidence, no other scientist on earth could possibly hope to match the lead. That’s right, no metallurgist could tell the difference between lots of lead, or similarities.

Well, finally somebody examined various lots of bullets, from different manufacturers and found that you guessed it, the lead was pretty much the same from one brand of bullet, to the next. Lead was lead.

The FBI didn’t stop the test for another year and then instead of admitting they were lying the whole time, just quietly dropped it. When they were called on it being dropped they admitted that the test was now considered unverifiable. Wow, you think?

For twenty five years the FBI maintained that this test was as good as matching the rifling of a barrel. In fact, since it was done by spectral analyzing the metal, it was even better. FBI Abandons Controversial Bullet-Matching Technique

Now, if it isn’t corrupt to present evidence for a trial knowing that it is bullshit, what do you call it? I mean, we are talking about agents sworn to tell the truth and all that.

Planting GPS trackers on cars, getting caught, and then demanding the tracker back because it was federal government property. Want the link to that?

Then there was the Bundy Debacle. Yes Cliven and the rest were assholes of unequaled quality. If Hustler Magazine was still around, they would be the assholes of the century. But, that doesn’t mean that the FBI gets to lie about the case, withhold evidence, and do whatever they want. Bundy was found not guilty of everything, because the FBI couldn’t tell the truth if you asked the agent what time it was.

This is not the pinnacle of law enforcement. This is not the supreme investigative agency in the world. This is corruption, lies, obfuscation, and power abuse.

The idea that the FBI may not be corrupt or lying, I’d have a hard time with believing them in anything. Because I’ve watched them vacillate between inept, and flat assed corrupt for my entire life. They are either one or the other in pretty much every case they’re on. But oh my, we’re supposed to support the FBI because we love law and order. But why is it we don’t expect the enforcers of those laws, to actually obey those laws? I mean, rules for thee and not for me is pretty much the definition of hypocrisy isn’t it?

I never said that they were innocent of any corruption. My point was that we are talking about a specific instance with the FBI. If we are going to call it corrupt then it would behoove us to establish what, in particular, is corrupt about this specific case - the Clinton emails and the FISA warrant. I see nothing but partisan whining around the FISA warrant and such has already been investigated by another party - the IG. The email issue only is corrupt, AFAIK, in that they chose not to prosecute because it was a high level government official that they were investigating. The investigation was complete. That is a corruption of another stripe and what Graham is calling for will not even attempt to address that. It will be just another partisan 'investigation.' That does not deal with FBI corruption, it increases it.

The way your insurance premium is calculated and adjusted is based upon assumptions. Let’s say you get a ticket. One ticket in ten years for not stopping at a stop sign. The judge looks at it as a single instance. The insurance company assumes that this is part of a pattern of behavior by you.

They raise your rates because they assume if you rolled through one stop sign, you are rolling through others. That is dangerous behavior, and increases the likelihood that you will have an accident.

Corruption by the FBI exposed in all of the cases they break the rules on, or cheat on, shows the rest of the nation of a pattern of behavior. Like the Stop Sign analogy above. If the FBI will lie and hide evidence in the Bundy case, they will do it in others. It was far too practiced, far too easily done to be a first time. If the FBI will lie about lead matching, what other science based evidence are they lying about? Don’t tell me that was the only thing they were lying about. You don’t believe, and neither will I.

The FBI is protected by power, and prestige, and anything that tarnishes that shiny armor of faultless defenders of the law helps us all. The truth is never a bad thing. We already know the IG report found that the FBI investigation of Hillary was begun knowing they were going to find her innocent. So let me get this straight, they found a bunch of people lying, and they laughed it off. But people they don’t like misstate the date that a meeting took place, and they are criminal scum for lying to the FBI. To prison with you criminal scum. We’ll teach you not to lie to the mighty FBI.

When the truth is out there, people will learn that the FBI is not the expert investigators of lore and legend. They learn the truth. A few percentage points at a time. Exposing the truth is never a bad thing. The bad part is that people want to believe that the cops and FBI are doing a good job, and getting the guilty. They want to believe the Hollywood nonsense where the cops break the law to get the evidence, but only because they KNOW through some sort of psychic power that is conveyed by the badge, that the bad guy is guilty.

The last person I trust is anyone with a badge and a gun. I’ve learned. The reforms that come around when some abuse or another is exposed are all nonsense. When Hoover ran the FBI the illegal break in to search a residence was called a black bag job. When this term was exposed by Fred Cook, the break ins still happened. Only now they were called FBI Specials. So you see, they reformed the FBI. They stopped the Black Bag Jobs. Hoover could testify to Congress that the FBI no longer conducted those Black Bag Jobs. And he told the truth. They now did the exact same thing under the term FBI Specials.

When those became known, we decided that the FBI needed to do those things for National Security. So we gave them the FISA court. Well National Security sure stretched a bunch. From the intended usage of catching Spies, to any investigation where they don’t have enough evidence for a regular warrant, and especially for investigations where they never want to admit that they did wiretap prominent individuals, the FISA court is a rubber stamp to let the FBI keep doing what they were doing since Hoover formed the fucking band of bastards.

Nah. I say empower the ACLU and the CATO institute to investigate, and let them tear the FBI apart. Hell turn ANTIFA loose in the building with all the locked drawers open and the safes unlocked. Perhaps when we are done, we’ll have a better, less corrupt group. But I doubt it.

 

[FA_Q2]

The cops are more crooked than the FBI. Look at the FBI site , they do a lot. A lot of cops in the cities are corrupt and even in small towns.

Regardless of Trump , if you say one thing neg about him, you are out of a job, we are becoming a banana republic.

Is there a difference between a bank robber and a guy who robs a gas station? Both are robbers. Thieves. Arguing that we can’t criticize the FBI because they are less corrupt in your opinion than local cops is ignoring the big point. They are still corrupt by your own admission.

FBI agents have gotten away with murder just like the local cops. FBI agents violate the law with impunity. I did not approve of the FBI under Bush. I did not suddenly approve of them under Obama. I am damn sure not going to become a cheerleader because of Trump.

Either your beliefs are based upon principles or they are worthless. Decide what you believe. Decide what your core beliefs are. Then stand for them. That is always worthy of respect. I may disagree with you on the issues. But arguing that Trump is awful for destroying an admittedly corrupt organization is not a core belief.

Because if the FBI survives this intact they will be unstoppable in the future.

This does not really address the specific example though. Trump has not attacked the FBI because they are corrupt - he has attacked them because of the Russia investigation and the email investigation. Corrupt or not, you would have to establish how those specific examples are corrupt for it to have any meaning.

Obviously you haven’t heard about Lead Matching. This is literally the definition of Junk Science. Yet the FBI used it in convictions for decades. The idea is that every batch of lead from a smelter was a little different. By comparing bullets too mangled to be matched by rifling to a weapon, or when the weapon was not located, they could match it to batches of bullets to show it came from a lot of ammunition in the defendants possession.

The Basis for Compositional Bullet Lead Comparisons, Forensic Science Communications, July 2002

When outside Labs wanted to know how this test was done so they could confirm the findings, the FBI answer told you right away that the entire thing was bullshit. The FBI maintained that only their laboratory could process this kind of evidence, no other scientist on earth could possibly hope to match the lead. That’s right, no metallurgist could tell the difference between lots of lead, or similarities.

Well, finally somebody examined various lots of bullets, from different manufacturers and found that you guessed it, the lead was pretty much the same from one brand of bullet, to the next. Lead was lead.

The FBI didn’t stop the test for another year and then instead of admitting they were lying the whole time, just quietly dropped it. When they were called on it being dropped they admitted that the test was now considered unverifiable. Wow, you think?

For twenty five years the FBI maintained that this test was as good as matching the rifling of a barrel. In fact, since it was done by spectral analyzing the metal, it was even better. FBI Abandons Controversial Bullet-Matching Technique

Now, if it isn’t corrupt to present evidence for a trial knowing that it is bullshit, what do you call it? I mean, we are talking about agents sworn to tell the truth and all that.

Planting GPS trackers on cars, getting caught, and then demanding the tracker back because it was federal government property. Want the link to that?

Then there was the Bundy Debacle. Yes Cliven and the rest were assholes of unequaled quality. If Hustler Magazine was still around, they would be the assholes of the century. But, that doesn’t mean that the FBI gets to lie about the case, withhold evidence, and do whatever they want. Bundy was found not guilty of everything, because the FBI couldn’t tell the truth if you asked the agent what time it was.

This is not the pinnacle of law enforcement. This is not the supreme investigative agency in the world. This is corruption, lies, obfuscation, and power abuse.

The idea that the FBI may not be corrupt or lying, I’d have a hard time with believing them in anything. Because I’ve watched them vacillate between inept, and flat assed corrupt for my entire life. They are either one or the other in pretty much every case they’re on. But oh my, we’re supposed to support the FBI because we love law and order. But why is it we don’t expect the enforcers of those laws, to actually obey those laws? I mean, rules for thee and not for me is pretty much the definition of hypocrisy isn’t it?

I never said that they were innocent of any corruption. My point was that we are talking about a specific instance with the FBI. If we are going to call it corrupt then it would behoove us to establish what, in particular, is corrupt about this specific case - the Clinton emails and the FISA warrant. I see nothing but partisan whining around the FISA warrant and such has already been investigated by another party - the IG. The email issue only is corrupt, AFAIK, in that they chose not to prosecute because it was a high level government official that they were investigating. The investigation was complete. That is a corruption of another stripe and what Graham is calling for will not even attempt to address that. It will be just another partisan 'investigation.' That does not deal with FBI corruption, it increases it.

The way your insurance premium is calculated and adjusted is based upon assumptions. Let’s say you get a ticket. One ticket in ten years for not stopping at a stop sign. The judge looks at it as a single instance. The insurance company assumes that this is part of a pattern of behavior by you.

They raise your rates because they assume if you rolled through one stop sign, you are rolling through others. That is dangerous behavior, and increases the likelihood that you will have an accident.

Corruption by the FBI exposed in all of the cases they break the rules on, or cheat on, shows the rest of the nation of a pattern of behavior. Like the Stop Sign analogy above. If the FBI will lie and hide evidence in the Bundy case, they will do it in others. It was far too practiced, far too easily done to be a first time. If the FBI will lie about lead matching, what other science based evidence are they lying about? Don’t tell me that was the only thing they were lying about. You don’t believe, and neither will I.

The FBI is protected by power, and prestige, and anything that tarnishes that shiny armor of faultless defenders of the law helps us all. The truth is never a bad thing. We already know the IG report found that the FBI investigation of Hillary was begun knowing they were going to find her innocent. So let me get this straight, they found a bunch of people lying, and they laughed it off. But people they don’t like misstate the date that a meeting took place, and they are criminal scum for lying to the FBI. To prison with you criminal scum. We’ll teach you not to lie to the mighty FBI.

When the truth is out there, people will learn that the FBI is not the expert investigators of lore and legend. They learn the truth. A few percentage points at a time. Exposing the truth is never a bad thing. The bad part is that people want to believe that the cops and FBI are doing a good job, and getting the guilty. They want to believe the Hollywood nonsense where the cops break the law to get the evidence, but only because they KNOW through some sort of psychic power that is conveyed by the badge, that the bad guy is guilty.

The last person I trust is anyone with a badge and a gun. I’ve learned. The reforms that come around when some abuse or another is exposed are all nonsense. When Hoover ran the FBI the illegal break in to search a residence was called a black bag job. When this term was exposed by Fred Cook, the break ins still happened. Only now they were called FBI Specials. So you see, they reformed the FBI. They stopped the Black Bag Jobs. Hoover could testify to Congress that the FBI no longer conducted those Black Bag Jobs. And he told the truth. They now did the exact same thing under the term FBI Specials.

When those became known, we decided that the FBI needed to do those things for National Security. So we gave them the FISA court. Well National Security sure stretched a bunch. From the intended usage of catching Spies, to any investigation where they don’t have enough evidence for a regular warrant, and especially for investigations where they never want to admit that they did wiretap prominent individuals, the FISA court is a rubber stamp to let the FBI keep doing what they were doing since Hoover formed the fucking band of bastards.

Nah. I say empower the ACLU and the CATO institute to investigate, and let them tear the FBI apart. Hell turn ANTIFA loose in the building with all the locked drawers open and the safes unlocked. Perhaps when we are done, we’ll have a better, less corrupt group. But I doubt it.

It is one of the core realities in humanity - power corrupts.

Thank you for the well thought out and detailed reply.

 

[kaz]

Strzok was stupid for emailing, but I think all the republicans felt the same way about Trump, even after he became the nominee.

Working class Americans support Trump. That’s what matters most.

You mean "working class America fell for tRump's lies backed up by Russian propaganda".

This leftist talking point has been brought to you by an idiot ...

Truth is hard for you to refute isn't it.

Um ... ok.

Russians are in your grocery store, cutting your hair. In your sock drawer, everywhere !!!

 

[jon_berzerk]

they have to do more then just call for one

they have to put one together and do background checks on who they are

WHO has to do background checks on WHOM?

Do you mean Rosenstein had to do a background check on his and Comey's buddy, Mueller, before they could appoint him?

*** Background checks really aren't the Democrats' 'thing'. In the Pakistan Spy case it was discovered that neither Debbie Wasserman-Schultz obeyed the rules of Congress by doing even the slightest background check on the Awans before hiring them and giving them illegal access to classified House Information. Had they done even a basic background check they would have almost immediately found out the Awans were connected to terrorists and that they were under investigation for potentially killing their father imprisoning their mother - who inherited their father's money, and illegally spending their mother's inheritance money.

Do you mean Congress, Rosenstein, or Mueller - one appointed as Special Counsel - was required to do a background check on potential candidates for Mueller's team. It is obvious no one of objectivity was involved in the approval of the members of his team, which is even more of a joke than Obama's initial list of Cabinet members in 2008 - every tax evader Barry could find.

Mueller's team consists of nothing but Pro-Hillary Anti-Trump DNC / Hillary-donating Democrats, amazingly enough includes A CLINTON LAWYER who actually ran / runs the Clinton foundation, and ...of course ... included exposed Trump-Hating Pro-Hillary criminal and former Mueller Special Counsel member and disgraced former FBI Agent Peter Strzok!
-- NOTHING TO SEE HERE...NO OBJECTIVITY, NO BIAS, NOTHING TO SEE HERE.

IF ROSENSTEIN'S AND/OR MUELLER'S INVESTIGATIVE ABILITIES ARE DEMONSTRATED BY HOW WELL THEY NVESTIGATED STRZOK BEFORE THEY BROUNGHT HIM ON BOARD, IT IS NO WONDER THEY HAVE FOUND NO EVIDENCE OF ILLEGAL ACTIVITY AGAINST TRUMP IN 2+ YEARS. THE MEDIA / PUBLIC HAD TO INFORM THEM HOW CROOKED STRZOK WAS, AND PUBLIC PRESSURE / THE CHANCE OF LOSING EVERYTHING IF THEY KEPT HIM ON FORCED MUELLER TO FIRE STRZOK.

Yeah, so, again, background checks just don't seem to be the Liberals' 'thing'...

no they have to clean house all the way to the people that pick special consul attorneys

 

[Tilly]

Unbelievable how Trump is disbanding the FBI. The GOP is at it again. How long must it go on? You right wingers are crazy nuts.

Disbanding the fbi? Wtf are you talking about?

You know. It’s like how revoking someone’s security clearance is denying them freedom of speech

The freedom of speech is how he got it taken away.

That’s highly debatable, but that argument aside, he STILL has freedom of speech.
He can continue with his spittle spewing rants to his hearts content.
So.
No.

 

[SavannahMann]

Is there a difference between a bank robber and a guy who robs a gas station? Both are robbers. Thieves. Arguing that we can’t criticize the FBI because they are less corrupt in your opinion than local cops is ignoring the big point. They are still corrupt by your own admission.

FBI agents have gotten away with murder just like the local cops. FBI agents violate the law with impunity. I did not approve of the FBI under Bush. I did not suddenly approve of them under Obama. I am damn sure not going to become a cheerleader because of Trump.

Either your beliefs are based upon principles or they are worthless. Decide what you believe. Decide what your core beliefs are. Then stand for them. That is always worthy of respect. I may disagree with you on the issues. But arguing that Trump is awful for destroying an admittedly corrupt organization is not a core belief.

Because if the FBI survives this intact they will be unstoppable in the future.

This does not really address the specific example though. Trump has not attacked the FBI because they are corrupt - he has attacked them because of the Russia investigation and the email investigation. Corrupt or not, you would have to establish how those specific examples are corrupt for it to have any meaning.

Obviously you haven’t heard about Lead Matching. This is literally the definition of Junk Science. Yet the FBI used it in convictions for decades. The idea is that every batch of lead from a smelter was a little different. By comparing bullets too mangled to be matched by rifling to a weapon, or when the weapon was not located, they could match it to batches of bullets to show it came from a lot of ammunition in the defendants possession.

The Basis for Compositional Bullet Lead Comparisons, Forensic Science Communications, July 2002

When outside Labs wanted to know how this test was done so they could confirm the findings, the FBI answer told you right away that the entire thing was bullshit. The FBI maintained that only their laboratory could process this kind of evidence, no other scientist on earth could possibly hope to match the lead. That’s right, no metallurgist could tell the difference between lots of lead, or similarities.

Well, finally somebody examined various lots of bullets, from different manufacturers and found that you guessed it, the lead was pretty much the same from one brand of bullet, to the next. Lead was lead.

The FBI didn’t stop the test for another year and then instead of admitting they were lying the whole time, just quietly dropped it. When they were called on it being dropped they admitted that the test was now considered unverifiable. Wow, you think?

For twenty five years the FBI maintained that this test was as good as matching the rifling of a barrel. In fact, since it was done by spectral analyzing the metal, it was even better. FBI Abandons Controversial Bullet-Matching Technique

Now, if it isn’t corrupt to present evidence for a trial knowing that it is bullshit, what do you call it? I mean, we are talking about agents sworn to tell the truth and all that.

Planting GPS trackers on cars, getting caught, and then demanding the tracker back because it was federal government property. Want the link to that?

Then there was the Bundy Debacle. Yes Cliven and the rest were assholes of unequaled quality. If Hustler Magazine was still around, they would be the assholes of the century. But, that doesn’t mean that the FBI gets to lie about the case, withhold evidence, and do whatever they want. Bundy was found not guilty of everything, because the FBI couldn’t tell the truth if you asked the agent what time it was.

This is not the pinnacle of law enforcement. This is not the supreme investigative agency in the world. This is corruption, lies, obfuscation, and power abuse.

The idea that the FBI may not be corrupt or lying, I’d have a hard time with believing them in anything. Because I’ve watched them vacillate between inept, and flat assed corrupt for my entire life. They are either one or the other in pretty much every case they’re on. But oh my, we’re supposed to support the FBI because we love law and order. But why is it we don’t expect the enforcers of those laws, to actually obey those laws? I mean, rules for thee and not for me is pretty much the definition of hypocrisy isn’t it?

I never said that they were innocent of any corruption. My point was that we are talking about a specific instance with the FBI. If we are going to call it corrupt then it would behoove us to establish what, in particular, is corrupt about this specific case - the Clinton emails and the FISA warrant. I see nothing but partisan whining around the FISA warrant and such has already been investigated by another party - the IG. The email issue only is corrupt, AFAIK, in that they chose not to prosecute because it was a high level government official that they were investigating. The investigation was complete. That is a corruption of another stripe and what Graham is calling for will not even attempt to address that. It will be just another partisan 'investigation.' That does not deal with FBI corruption, it increases it.

The way your insurance premium is calculated and adjusted is based upon assumptions. Let’s say you get a ticket. One ticket in ten years for not stopping at a stop sign. The judge looks at it as a single instance. The insurance company assumes that this is part of a pattern of behavior by you.

They raise your rates because they assume if you rolled through one stop sign, you are rolling through others. That is dangerous behavior, and increases the likelihood that you will have an accident.

Corruption by the FBI exposed in all of the cases they break the rules on, or cheat on, shows the rest of the nation of a pattern of behavior. Like the Stop Sign analogy above. If the FBI will lie and hide evidence in the Bundy case, they will do it in others. It was far too practiced, far too easily done to be a first time. If the FBI will lie about lead matching, what other science based evidence are they lying about? Don’t tell me that was the only thing they were lying about. You don’t believe, and neither will I.

The FBI is protected by power, and prestige, and anything that tarnishes that shiny armor of faultless defenders of the law helps us all. The truth is never a bad thing. We already know the IG report found that the FBI investigation of Hillary was begun knowing they were going to find her innocent. So let me get this straight, they found a bunch of people lying, and they laughed it off. But people they don’t like misstate the date that a meeting took place, and they are criminal scum for lying to the FBI. To prison with you criminal scum. We’ll teach you not to lie to the mighty FBI.

When the truth is out there, people will learn that the FBI is not the expert investigators of lore and legend. They learn the truth. A few percentage points at a time. Exposing the truth is never a bad thing. The bad part is that people want to believe that the cops and FBI are doing a good job, and getting the guilty. They want to believe the Hollywood nonsense where the cops break the law to get the evidence, but only because they KNOW through some sort of psychic power that is conveyed by the badge, that the bad guy is guilty.

The last person I trust is anyone with a badge and a gun. I’ve learned. The reforms that come around when some abuse or another is exposed are all nonsense. When Hoover ran the FBI the illegal break in to search a residence was called a black bag job. When this term was exposed by Fred Cook, the break ins still happened. Only now they were called FBI Specials. So you see, they reformed the FBI. They stopped the Black Bag Jobs. Hoover could testify to Congress that the FBI no longer conducted those Black Bag Jobs. And he told the truth. They now did the exact same thing under the term FBI Specials.

When those became known, we decided that the FBI needed to do those things for National Security. So we gave them the FISA court. Well National Security sure stretched a bunch. From the intended usage of catching Spies, to any investigation where they don’t have enough evidence for a regular warrant, and especially for investigations where they never want to admit that they did wiretap prominent individuals, the FISA court is a rubber stamp to let the FBI keep doing what they were doing since Hoover formed the fucking band of bastards.

Nah. I say empower the ACLU and the CATO institute to investigate, and let them tear the FBI apart. Hell turn ANTIFA loose in the building with all the locked drawers open and the safes unlocked. Perhaps when we are done, we’ll have a better, less corrupt group. But I doubt it.

It is one of the core realities in humanity - power corrupts.

Thank you for the well thought out and detailed reply.

You are welcome, and thank you for taking the time to consider my point of view and arguments. It is a nice change to see actual discussions happen here instead of bashing the opposition over the head with rhetoric and insults.