Fed. Appeals Ct: California can set tougher emission rules

[Wonky Pundit]

Not much spin on this decision - at least not yet.

"A U.S. federal appeals court has upheld California's right to set emission and air pollution standards for automobiles that exceed federal standards.

Under the 1970 Clean Air Act, California can request waivers of federal standards to enact its own stricter laws, a right given to the state because it had its own pollution laws in effect before they federal government passed its laws..."

Source

 

[Old Rocks]

Given the problems they have with their cities in basins, that is a good decision.

 

[martybegan]

Given the problems they have with their cities in basins, that is a good decision.

This is going to be a tough one to enforce, given that crossing a state line is the same as walking across a street. I see several problems with this:

If it is enforced only on cars sold in California you are basically creating a limited market, in effect banning certain cars from being sold in the state. What then happens if someone goes out of state to buy a car, and then brings it in and tries to register it? If you prevent them from doing it, you would then have to prevent people moving into the state from registering cars that do not meet the standards. Not doing so creates two "classes" of citizens, which is usually unconstitutional.

I'm sure they won't try to ban any car not approved from driving in the state, as this would create a huge mess, but considering that cross state commerce is really unregulated, I forsee a huge enforcement problem.

Also, i think car dealers in california will not be happy, as a person who wants a particular car may just drive to another state to get it.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Let's see if I got this right:

State Laws can be tougher for air pollution.
State Laws cannot be tougher for immigration.

That about right?

 

[Wonky Pundit]

Given the problems they have with their cities in basins, that is a good decision.

This is going to be a tough one to enforce, given that crossing a state line is the same as walking across a street. I see several problems with this:

If it is enforced only on cars sold in California you are basically creating a limited market, in effect banning certain cars from being sold in the state. What then happens if someone goes out of state to buy a car, and then brings it in and tries to register it? If you prevent them from doing it, you would then have to prevent people moving into the state from registering cars that do not meet the standards. Not doing so creates two "classes" of citizens, which is usually unconstitutional.

I'm sure they won't try to ban any car not approved from driving in the state, as this would create a huge mess, but considering that cross state commerce is really unregulated, I forsee a huge enforcement problem.

Also, i think car dealers in california will not be happy, as a person who wants a particular car may just drive to another state to get it.

It acutally has been enforced - sort of - every since it went into effect. The enforcement happens when you register a car from out of state.

If that car hasn't been manufactured according to California emissions standards, you pay an extra fee. That's about it.

 

[IanC]

California has killed the goose that laid the golden eggs. they havent acknowledged it yet but they have turned themselves into at best a second world society. sooner or later reality will make them realize they cant afford looney leftist fantasies anymore. sad that

 

[martybegan]

Given the problems they have with their cities in basins, that is a good decision.

This is going to be a tough one to enforce, given that crossing a state line is the same as walking across a street. I see several problems with this:

If it is enforced only on cars sold in California you are basically creating a limited market, in effect banning certain cars from being sold in the state. What then happens if someone goes out of state to buy a car, and then brings it in and tries to register it? If you prevent them from doing it, you would then have to prevent people moving into the state from registering cars that do not meet the standards. Not doing so creates two "classes" of citizens, which is usually unconstitutional.

I'm sure they won't try to ban any car not approved from driving in the state, as this would create a huge mess, but considering that cross state commerce is really unregulated, I forsee a huge enforcement problem.

Also, i think car dealers in california will not be happy, as a person who wants a particular car may just drive to another state to get it.

It acutally has been enforced - sort of - every since it went into effect. The enforcement happens when you register a car from out of state.

If that car hasn't been manufactured according to California emissions standards, you pay an extra fee. That's about it.

Extra fee is workable solution to the issue.

 

[Wonky Pundit]

California has killed the goose that laid the golden eggs. they havent acknowledged it yet but they have turned themselves into at best a second world society. sooner or later reality will make them realize they cant afford looney leftist fantasies anymore. sad that

What does any of that have to do with emissions laws? Even if it's true?

 

[Mr. H.]

Stricter rules = more expensive fuels.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Hooray for states rights!!

Shame though.

The cost of living in CA will go up. The price of new autos will not be funny and old ones will have to be 'fixed' to meet the newer tougher standards.

 

[kiwiman127]

Hooray for states rights!!

Shame though.

The cost of living in CA will go up. The price of new autos will not be funny and old ones will have to be 'fixed' to meet the newer tougher standards.

Yes, hooray for States Rights! And why not immigration too?

We went through this whole emissions thing a few decades back and we survived.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Hooray for states rights!!

Shame though.

The cost of living in CA will go up. The price of new autos will not be funny and old ones will have to be 'fixed' to meet the newer tougher standards.

Yes, hooray for States Rights! And why not immigration too?

We went through this whole emissions thing a few decades back and we survived.

Took the words outta my mouth.

Didn't mention it cuz I thought it might derail the thread.

 

[Wonky Pundit]

Hooray for states rights!!

Shame though.

The cost of living in CA will go up. The price of new autos will not be funny and old ones will have to be 'fixed' to meet the newer tougher standards.

New cars sold today have been meeting the newer standards since the 90s (and older ones got grandfathered in). As for price of new cars, the difference is small - I would guess under 1% on average.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Hooray for states rights!!

Shame though.

The cost of living in CA will go up. The price of new autos will not be funny and old ones will have to be 'fixed' to meet the newer tougher standards.

New cars sold today have been meeting the newer standards since the 90s (and older ones got grandfathered in). As for price of new cars, the difference is small - I would guess under 1% on average.

Most regulations casue small increases.

You can think of it as baby steps or the death of 1000 cuts.

The result is; cost of living will go up. garages will, possibly, have to buy newer testing gear, send people to get trained on it's use, and pass the cost onto the consumer.

Where I live, I know 3 places where you can go and ask; "How much for an inspection sticker?" The working poor do what they often feel they have to, just to get by. Even a 1% increase will make it harder on them.

This will also cut into the profits of companies that operate trucks or cars, and that cost will also be passed onto the consumer.

Did the people of CA get to vote on this? Or did the State do it for thier own good?

 

[Old Rocks]

California has killed the goose that laid the golden eggs. they havent acknowledged it yet but they have turned themselves into at best a second world society. sooner or later reality will make them realize they cant afford looney leftist fantasies anymore. sad that

Last time I looked. were California to become a seperate nation, it would be among the top ten economies in the world.

 

[Two Thumbs]

California has killed the goose that laid the golden eggs. they havent acknowledged it yet but they have turned themselves into at best a second world society. sooner or later reality will make them realize they cant afford looney leftist fantasies anymore. sad that

Last time I looked. were California to become a seperate nation, it would be among the top ten economies in the world.

Last I heard it was ranked 3rd.

Makes you wonder why it's broke and deeply in debt.

 

[wirebender]

Last time I looked. were California to become a seperate nation, it would be among the top ten economies in the world.

You probably should look more often; and take off the rose colored glasses before you look.

http://thebusinessrelocationcoach.blogspot.com/

Business leaving California in record numbers – a message to CARB and AB 32 implementation from SCLC « California Business

List names 100 companies leaving California - Jan Norman on Small Business - The Orange County Register

California's economic crisis - businesses are leaving the state - includes related articles - Cover Story | Nation's Business | Find Articles at BNET

84 companies added to ‘leaving California’ list - Jan Norman on Small Business - The Orange County Register

http://www.caltax.org/Vames-BusinessesPonderLeavingCalifornia8-20-03.pdf

Moving Out Of California | A state in the rearview mirror - Los Angeles Times

http://jan.ocregister.com/2010/09/23/leaving-cal-list-grows-to-144-firms/45696/

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/california-285973-companies-released.html



Green thinking (and by green, I don't mean money) is devastating the california economy and will continue to do so until such time as they collectively wake up to the fact that envirowackos hate business and secretly applaud at every business that fails or leaves due to environmental regulations. They cheer that they are one step closer to getting back to that hunter gatherer existence they dream of.

 

[IanC]

California has killed the goose that laid the golden eggs. they havent acknowledged it yet but they have turned themselves into at best a second world society. sooner or later reality will make them realize they cant afford looney leftist fantasies anymore. sad that

Last time I looked. were California to become a seperate nation, it would be among the top ten economies in the world.

do you really think that Cali is the same powerhouse that it was 30 years ago? it has frittered away its wealth and prestige on irresponsible idealism. I am all for the able trying to be a good example for others but not at the cost of becoming weak and insolvent.

as financial head of my household I got quizzical looks from friends when I spent money on music lessons rather than cable or private school rather than extra cars and holidays. but I didnt just borrow to do both. Cali spent its future on ideology and in the long run everyone suffers, especially those who will always need help.

 

[Old Rocks]

California has killed the goose that laid the golden eggs. they havent acknowledged it yet but they have turned themselves into at best a second world society. sooner or later reality will make them realize they cant afford looney leftist fantasies anymore. sad that

Last time I looked. were California to become a seperate nation, it would be among the top ten economies in the world.

Last I heard it was ranked 3rd.

Makes you wonder why it's broke and deeply in debt.

What is our position as a nation?

 

[Old Rocks]

By the way, care to tell me what is devastating the Texas economy? Is it their rampant socialism?

Budget News: rainy-day fund; education reform; state debt; highway funding; Medicaid | Texas Budget Source

Fund called on to bridge gap in budget

On Monday, Republican Reps. Jim Pitts of Waxahachie and Drew Darby of San Angelo filed a bill which would allow the Texas Legislature to withdraw more than half of the state’s Economic Stabilization Fund — the savings account known as the Rainy Day Fund — to cover a $4.3 billion hole projected for the current fiscal year ending Aug. 31.

Fund called on to bridge gap in budget | Lubbock Online | Lubbock Avalanche-Journal

No easy answers for deep budget cuts in education
Here’s one way Texas legislators could trim the state’s tab for public education by nearly $10 billion : lop off 48 days from the school year.

“We’d win the 5- to 18-year-old vote forever,” quipped House Public Education Committee Chairman Rob Eissler , R-The Woodlands.