Fatah And Hamas Terrorist To Sign Peace deal

[Epsilon Delta]

The Jews in Israel want to live that would not include another armed arab state on indefensible boarders sorry...It won’t happen because it cannot happen. The Jews will do what they must to survive, No more laying down waiting to be slaughtered.

You see, J, this is what I don't understand - can you help me out?

What I gather from the statement is basically agreement with my above post. You're basically agreeing with the fact that "Sorry, there is no state, it can never happen, because we cannot be safe if the Palestinians have a state" I think your perspective is in line with the position of Israel's leadership.

In that case...

WHY. THE FUCK. DO YOU EVEN BOTHER. WITH THE LITTLE CHARADE??

Why the hell do you even bother going around saying stupid useless shit like "Well, if only the Palestinians would recognize this" and "Well if only the Palestinians would agree to that" and "Weeeell, aren't the Palestinians going to give up ANYTHING?"

Just WHAT IS THE POINT? You've already basically admitted it. Why can't you and the Israeli leadership just COME OUT OPENLY AND SAY IT STRAIGHT:

You will NEVER have your own state. We don't feel comfortable with you having a state next to us. And furthermore, we're NOT going to have a "one-state solution," because this is a JEWISH STATE in which Jewish people must be privileged over anybody else. It's only fair. And if you don't like it, you better start to get the fuck out - because if you don't get the fuck out we're going to have to start implementing some solutions, and they will be FINAL.

See?! Isn't that easier? Doesn't that just pretty much say all that you really want to say? Why continue with this silly song-and-dance number, this charade, all this back-room lying? Does it not get exhausting?!?! Just annex the goddamned West Bank & Gaza and kick them motherfuckers OUT man, kick 'em out, put 'em on trains, disappear 'em, send 'em to forced labor camps, or hell, just exterminate them and get the whole goddamned thing over with.

Then you'll finally be safe, then and only then will Nuclear-armed, 10th best military in the world, $26,000-GDP-per-capita, rich Israel be safe from pop-bottle-rocket-armed, no-army, no-state $1000-GDP-per-capita, dirt-poor Palestine.

Please just get it over with. I'm tired of this stuff.

 

[docmauser1]

Unlike most International Reporters who live in cities like Tel Aviv, Jonathan Cook chose to live in the Palestinian city of Nazareth.

You know perfectly well what I was meaning .

Of course, not. Neither palistanians, nor their apologistas have made sense.

Nazareth has the largest concentration of Palestine or Arab citizens of Israel

They need to decide on what sheep's clothing they want to don - a palistanian one, or an israeli arab one, of course.

Nazareth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I can quote soviet Pravda too.

I have yet to see you write anything of purpose.

I have yet to see my faithful opposition having brains of any purpose.

First answer trying to be clever over a known technical mistake, second answer using the antisemetism tactic. I have to imagine the reality is you have no answers and are pretty bored in your life so spend your time here trolling.

Whatever that drivel may mean, of course.

What Jonathon Cook writes is the truth. You can find it at other places. I already provided a link to one. As for where he chose to live. Hist interest was in finding out what life was like for the Palestinians/Arab citizens of Israel.

That is, drivel in - drivel out.

Those occupational arabs should be freed to the free palistan, of course.

More kindergarten trolling.

More palistanian lies and garbage.

Your extremism though is noted.

Apologists of extremists, calling others extremist.

 

[docmauser1]

Oh, Alexa. A brave try, but you should know that if you start using too many words they begin to ignore you, because there is no way to change their minds.

Indeed, refraining from producing palistan garbage avalanches is green behavior.

 

[Jroc]

Oh, Alexa. A brave try, but you should know that if you start using too many words they begin to ignore you, because there is no way to change their minds.

The basic fact is this, for the rabid and brainwashed Israeli ultra-nationalists and their supporters: Unless Palestinians allow Israel total control of all the settlements, allow Israeli total control over Israeli-only highways criss-crossing the West Bank, Israeli-controlled water resources, Israeli-controlled fertile areas, Israeli control over the Jordan River, Israeli control over any other "key" natural resource or strategic point in the West Bank, Israeli control over the air space over both Gaza and the West Bank, Israeli control over the coast of Gaza, and Israeli control over all of Jerusalem, AS WELL AS: have no army, renounce control over Palestinian border crossings, allowing Israel any space they deem necessary for a military base and prostrating themselves under the Israeli flag while pledge their undying allegiance to the idea of Israel as a uniquely Jewish state where Arabs can at best be second-class citizens, UNLESS all these conditions are met, then Palestinians can pretty much say forget about having a state.

Now, I know what you're thinking: "But wait... no control over air space, sea lanes, water resources, natural resources, their capital, their borders, AND criss-crossed into pieces by foreign-occupied corridors... that doesn't sound like a state to me..." But hey, actually, it's very much a state, just a... a different kind of state. The kind of state appropriate to maintain Israel's security, which is basically... almost like not having a state, and remarkably like the reality on the ground for the past few, er, DECADES, but hey, once they do all this, we can officially call it a state. You see? It's all good! Everybody wins! Israelis give up the horrible, terrible concession of having to call their occupied territories a state, and Palestinians can call their little carved up neighborhoods a state. And that's after all, what this is all about. Basically, finding a way to call the occupied territories a "State" without actually BEING a state, because a State of Palestine would apparently endanger Israel's security unless... it was actually NOT a state. See?! It's great!

As I said The muslim arabs have their states. And if it were up to me they can keep those and the Jews should have Israel.. all of it, but since the Arabs are the majority in most of the occupied territories well we can deal with them and give them their stupid DEMILIORTIZE state lets see what they do with it. There would have to be some kind of land exchange, 67 Borders and Jerusalem are out though How’s that? Compromise... it won't work though because the muslim arabs want the Jews dead that's it.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X8dhrzQCHY&feature=related]YouTube - Islam: The Jews Are the Eternal Enemies of Muslims Regardless of the Occupation of Palestine[/ame]

 

[P F Tinmore]

Oh, Alexa. A brave try, but you should know that if you start using too many words they begin to ignore you, because there is no way to change their minds.

The basic fact is this, for the rabid and brainwashed Israeli ultra-nationalists and their supporters: Unless Palestinians allow Israel total control of all the settlements, allow Israeli total control over Israeli-only highways criss-crossing the West Bank, Israeli-controlled water resources, Israeli-controlled fertile areas, Israeli control over the Jordan River, Israeli control over any other "key" natural resource or strategic point in the West Bank, Israeli control over the air space over both Gaza and the West Bank, Israeli control over the coast of Gaza, and Israeli control over all of Jerusalem, AS WELL AS: have no army, renounce control over Palestinian border crossings, allowing Israel any space they deem necessary for a military base and prostrating themselves under the Israeli flag while pledge their undying allegiance to the idea of Israel as a uniquely Jewish state where Arabs can at best be second-class citizens, UNLESS all these conditions are met, then Palestinians can pretty much say forget about having a state.

Now, I know what you're thinking: "But wait... no control over air space, sea lanes, water resources, natural resources, their capital, their borders, AND criss-crossed into pieces by foreign-occupied corridors... that doesn't sound like a state to me..." But hey, actually, it's very much a state, just a... a different kind of state. The kind of state appropriate to maintain Israel's security, which is basically... almost like not having a state, and remarkably like the reality on the ground for the past few, er, DECADES, but hey, once they do all this, we can officially call it a state. You see? It's all good! Everybody wins! Israelis give up the horrible, terrible concession of having to call their occupied territories a state, and Palestinians can call their little carved up neighborhoods a state. And that's after all, what this is all about. Basically, finding a way to call the occupied territories a "State" without actually BEING a state, because a State of Palestine would apparently endanger Israel's security unless... it was actually NOT a state. See?! It's great!

As I said The muslim arabs have their states. And if it were up to me they can keep those and the Jews should have Israel.. all of it, but since the Arabs are the majority in most of the occupied territories well we can deal with them and give them their stupid DEMILIORTIZE state lets see what they do with it. There would have to be some kind of land exchange, 67 Borders and Jerusalem are out though How’s that? Compromise... it won't work though because the muslim arabs want the Jews dead that's it.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X8dhrzQCHY&feature=related]YouTube - Islam: The Jews Are the Eternal Enemies of Muslims Regardless of the Occupation of Palestine[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5WuiBdlddU&feature=related]YouTube - Historical Myths in Israel/Palestine (Occupation 101 Clip)[/ame]

 

[Epsilon Delta]

As I said The muslim arabs have their states. And if it were up to me they can keep those and the Jews should have Israel.. all of it, but since the Arabs are the majority in most of the occupied territories well we can deal with them and give them their stupid DEMILIORTIZE state lets see what they do with it. There would have to be some kind of land exchange, 67 Borders and Jerusalem are out though How’s that? Compromise... it won't work though because the muslim arabs want the Jews dead that's it.

YouTube - Islam: The Jews Are the Eternal Enemies of Muslims Regardless of the Occupation of Palestine

1st - You entirely ignored my second post, but ok. I seriously don't know why I bother. (Guess I'm just that bored). It's fine though, I understand that sometimes it is difficult to deal with the actual consequences of one's proposals, especially when they advocate ethnic cleansing and genocide.

2nd - Your post doesn't say anything. There's basically nothing to respond to. You've already stated that it would be your preferred option if Palestinians just wouldn't exist and the State of Israel could cover all of Historical Palestine (Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza). Pretty ironic considering that that's basically what rabid Hamas supporters want as well. Who knew, you call them terrorists and Jew haters for saying that (as I do), yet you feel entitled to feel exactly the same as they do. Somehow it's good for you, but not for them. I think it's no good for anybody, personally, but that's just me.

3rd - Yes, already we established that you believe Palestinians can have a "state" so long as they allow Israel total control of all the settlements, allow Israeli total control over Israeli-only highways criss-crossing the West Bank, Israeli-controlled water resources, Israeli-controlled fertile areas, Israeli control over the Jordan River, Israeli control over any other "key" natural resource or strategic point in the West Bank, Israeli control over the air space over both Gaza and the West Bank, Israeli control over the coast of Gaza, and Israeli control over all of Jerusalem, AS WELL AS: have no army, renounce control over Palestinian border crossings, allowing Israel any space they deem necessary for a military base and prostrating themselves under the Israeli flag while pledge their undying allegiance to the idea of Israel as a uniquely Jewish state where Arabs can at best be second-class citizens. We know that, I don't see the point in calling it a State, but I guess it works for you and your conscience, right?

4th - Yeah, "it won't work though because the israeli Jews want the Arabs dead that's it." See how easy it is? Which statement is right? Yours or mine? Who benefits from both of these statements? The government of Israel and Hamas. Great job keeping the hate going. With such fantastic faith in peace from you and your side (the "good side") it's no wonder how far along we've come.

 

[docmauser1]

You entirely ignored my second post, but ok.

Wasn't it drivel, anyway?

... sometimes it is difficult to deal with the actual consequences of one's proposals, especially when they advocate ethnic cleansing and genocide.

Zoheir Muhsin voiced that proposition in 1977, if I'm not mistaken. But I digress.

it would be your preferred option if Palestinians just wouldn't exist

But they, technically, do not exist, anyway.

and the State of Israel could cover all of Historical Palestine (Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza).

Not a bad proposition at all.

Pretty ironic considering that that's basically what rabid Hamas supporters want as well.

Who could've thought?!

 

[waltky]

Uh-oh...

... now dey both gonna be flingin' rockets at Israel.

 

[editec]

This is obviously not good news for Israel.

 

[alexa]

This is obviously not good news for Israel.

You've said that twice. Want to enlarge?

 

[editec]

This is obviously not good news for Israel.

You've said that twice. Want to enlarge?

Pretty simple, really.

Divide and conquer.

A divided Palestinian people are easier to control than a unified Palestinian people.

I merely posted it twice in the hopes that people would stay on topic.

The topic is the unification of those two Palestinian groups, not a rehash of the whole Palestian Israeli debate.

 

[alexa]

This is obviously not good news for Israel.

You've said that twice. Want to enlarge?

Pretty simple, really.

Divide and conquer.

A divided Palestinian people are easier to control than a unified Palestinian people.

I merely posted it twice in the hopes that people would stay on topic.

The topic is the unification of those two Palestinian groups, not a rehash of the whole Palestian Israeli debate.

Hmmm, I see, I had noticed that as well. Thought possibly you might add for thought.


Well while Hamas and Fatah had to undergo reconciliation as the Palestinians wanted unity, there is as yet no clear view of how this will progress, assuming they manage to remain reconciled.

Netanyahu is apparently delighted and doing the rounds telling everyone not to speak to them and that he will not be doing so. He is well pleased that he will not need to do the sham of peace talks any more.

see Uri Avnery's weekly english article

I have also heard talk of annexing settlements.

However possibly what is more important is the other changes which are happening in the Arab world especially if they lead to proper democracies. Egypt already has had to listen to it's people and open the Rafah crossing.

Below are notes from the link at the end

All the changes in the Arab world to change power dynamics and the relationship of the US and EU to the region. Israel will be seen as not quite so much of a democracy as she has been claiming.

Palestine will be accepted legally in September. This will make Israel accountable for everything she does. She will need to face legal issues now she has a State to deal with.

Palestinians to hold their third Intifada on May 15th and that is an interesting one because it is not just against Israel but also against the Fatah and Hamas governments! This is being hailed by the Israelis as going to be extremely violent but it is being organised by women and Unions who have a non violent approach.

Rula Jebreal believes that what is going to influence and change Israel is isolation which will be what she will experience if she does not change. She believes that if the US does not change it's policy towards Israel she will have no influence in the ME. 'The unjust policies and blind support for Israel in the US is what is damaging the US in the Arab world.'


Issandr El Amrani does not believe that the 'garrison state strategy of Israel' can survive once all the autocratic leaders have gone. New governments will not need to focus on repression.

source

Journalists Rula Jebreal and Issandr El Amrani on Egypt, Israel, Palestine, Hamas and Palestinian Authority

So they are very optimistic. They believe a power shift is coming though the outcome could take five or ten years. They don't believe that Israel as she is at the moment can survive and that this will be due to changes in power, isolation and having to diplomatically and legally face reality.

It begins with Hamas and Fatah reconciliation....just begins the process. Lets hope they keep it together.

 

[docmauser1]

Uri Avnery's weekly english article.

Damn, don't we all like proving jooze are better, than arabs, at least?

 

[Jroc]

2nd - Your post doesn't say anything. There's basically nothing to respond to. You've already stated that it would be your preferred option if Palestinians just wouldn't exist and the State of Israel could cover all of Historical Palestine (Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza). Pretty ironic considering that that's basically what rabid Hamas supporters want as well. Who knew, you call them terrorists and Jew haters for saying that (as I do), yet you feel entitled to feel exactly the same as they do. Somehow it's good for you, but not for them. I think it's no good for anybody, personally, but that's just me.

Umm.....The so-called "Palestians" arabs could have had thier state long ago but they would rather see the Jews dead..get it idot?

3rd - Yes, already we established that you believe Palestinians can have a "state" so long as they allow Israel total control of all the settlements, allow Israeli total control over Israeli-only highways criss-crossing the West Bank, Israeli-controlled water resources, Israeli-controlled fertile areas, Israeli control over the Jordan River, Israeli control over any other "key" natural resource or strategic point in the West Bank, Israeli control over the air space over both Gaza and the West Bank, Israeli control over the coast of Gaza, and Israeli control over all of Jerusalem, AS WELL AS: have no army, renounce control over Palestinian border crossings, allowing Israel any space they deem necessary for a military base and prostrating themselves under the Israeli flag while pledge their undying allegiance to the idea of Israel as a uniquely Jewish state where Arabs can at best be second-class citizens. We know that, I don't see the point in calling it a State, but I guess it works for you and your conscience, right?

Allegiance what allegiance? Allegiance and acceptance are two different things like I said Arabs in Israel are treated better than they are in Arab muslim countries so your out rage is misplaced... Talk to the other Arab countries ok?

4th - Yeah, "it won't work though because the israeli Jews want the Arabs dead that's it." See how easy it is? Which statement is right? Yours or mine? Who benefits from both of these statements? The government of Israel and Hamas. Great job keeping the hate going. With such fantastic faith in peace from you and your side (the "good side") it's no wonder how far along we've come

Wrong idiot there are 1.5 billion muslims in the world only 13 million Jews So how would that work? And there is no such belief in Jewish religion Jews just want to live your moral equivalency is pure bullshit

 

[Epsilon Delta]

*Sigh* JRock, how can I possibly have any sort of reasonable discussion with you when you ignore basically everything I say? You seem to be able to latch on to maybe 3 or 4-word phrases and cook up some half-assed response, bringing in ludicrous statements and talking points with only tenuous relation to the subject at hand. Sorry, but until you decide to stop ignoring my second post and form at least a somewhat cohesive response, I don't see the point in maintaining this discussion going, "idot".

Wasn't it drivel, anyway?

Well, no, not really.

Zoheir Muhsin voiced that proposition in 1977, if I'm not mistaken. But I digress.

Yes, you do. [For the record, I cannot find a single reliable source of information on this Zoheir, his only appearance on google is from admittedly, and rabidly, pro-Israel websites. Nevertheless, we can likely safely assume that his opinion on Israel is remarkably similar to your position on Palestine.]

But they, technically, do not exist, anyway.

11 million people who self-identify as "Palestinian" disagree with you, as well as the 100+ countries that have publicly recognized Palestine and who maintain official diplomatic relations therein.

Not a bad proposition at all.

Sure, not bad if you want to declare a bi-national state and add 4 million Palestinian Arabs to Israel's citizenry. Or alternatively, not a bad proposition if you want to engage in ethnic cleansing and genocide.

Who could've thought?!

I know, right?!

 

[Jroc]

*Sigh* JRock, how can I possibly have any sort of reasonable discussion with you when you ignore basically everything I say? You seem to be able to latch on to maybe 3 or 4-word phrases and cook up some half-assed response, bringing in ludicrous statements and talking points with only tenuous relation to the subject at hand. Sorry, but until you decide to stop ignoring my second post and form at least a somewhat cohesive response, I don't see the point in maintaining this discussion going, "idot".

Your long ass bullshit rants are a waste of my time. I like to keep things short and to the point... I don't do talking points, and don't have to refute all of your stupidity it's self explanatory...carry on.

 

[Epsilon Delta]

Your long ass bullshit rants are a waste of my time. I like to keep things short and to the point... I don't do talking points, and don't have to refute all of your stupidity it's self explanatory...carry on.

Correction: You only do talking points and cannot refute anything (hence, the "keep things short" euphemism).

It's ok, bud, you can go in peace.

 

[Jroc]

Your long ass bullshit rants are a waste of my time. I like to keep things short and to the point... I don't do talking points, and don't have to refute all of your stupidity it's self explanatory...carry on.

Correction: You only do talking points and cannot refute anything (hence, the "keep things short" euphemism).

It's ok, bud, you can go in peace.

"give a man enough rope and he will hang himself".

 

[docmauser1]

You seem to be able to latch on to maybe 3 or 4-word phrases

Brevity is a virtue.

and cook up some half-assed response,

Maybe, if we adopt voluminous bullshitting of my faithful opposizioni as a reference point.

Wasn't it drivel, anyway?

Well, no, not really.

Half-drivel?

Zoheir Muhsin voiced that proposition in 1977, if I'm not mistaken. But I digress.

Yes, you do. [For the record, I cannot find a single reliable source of information on this Zoheir, his only appearance on google is from admittedly, and rabidly, pro-Israel websites.

Rabidly judophobic websites don't like him, it seems.

Nevertheless, we can likely safely assume that his opinion on Israel is remarkably similar to your position on Palestine.]

Indeed, "palestine" has been remarkably dead since the dissolution of the mandate, and that arab schmuck has been a confirmed schmuck.

11 million people who self-identify as "Palestinian" disagree with you,

We may propose a theory as to why arabs in so-called occupied territories call themselves "palestinians", but not arabs, occupying Jordan. The latter are jordanians, which is funny, because Jordan is part of the mandate palestine. Well, the reason is that, the former just didn't succeed to grab what is not theirs. So, a "palestinian" is:

• anyone, whom Yasser Arafat declared a "palestinian"
• anyone, who claims to be a "palestinian"
• any angry arab.

Arab anger-management issues.

as well as the 100+ countries that have publicly recognized Palestine and who maintain official diplomatic relations therein.

So, this is the reason the saudis want to raise the price of oil - paying all those countries off for palistan is a costly occupation. Hehehehe.

Not a bad proposition at all.

Sure, not bad if you want to declare a bi-national state and add 4 million Palestinian Arabs to Israel's citizenry.

Why would I promote a palisimian occupation of Israel?

Or alternatively, not a bad proposition if you want to engage in ethnic cleansing and genocide.

Au contraire, I'm the greatest pro-palisimian fan here, that is why I recommend the international community undertakes an unprecedented project of their humanitarian relocation to arabia to relieve them of the misery they claim to suffer from day in and day out.

Who could've thought?!

I know, right?!

Indeed, I didn't know hamas supported Israel in Gaza and the so-called west bank. Dooh.

 

[Epsilon Delta]

Man, all those modifiers to your font make quoting you a pain in the ass =\

You seem to be able to latch on to maybe 3 or 4-word phrases

Brevity is a virtue.

Brevity could be a sign of many things.

Maybe, if we adopt voluminous bullshitting of my faithful opposizioni as a reference point.Half-drivel?

What?

Rabidly judophobic websites don't like him, it seems.

Indeed, "palestine" has been remarkably dead since the dissolution of the mandate, and that arab schmuck has been a confirmed schmuck.

If what these websites claim is true, he sure sounds like one. Kinda like you!

We may propose a theory as to why arabs in so-called occupied territories call themselves "palestinians", but not arabs, occupying Jordan.

Actually, about half of Jordanian citizens identify themselves as Palestinians. (West Bankers vs East Bankers)

The latter are jordanians, which is funny, because Jordan is part of the mandate palestine. Well, the reason is that, the former just didn't succeed to grab what is not theirs.

Whatsoever do you mean by that?

So, a "palestinian" is:

anyone, who claims to be a "palestinian"Arab anger-management issues.

Well, yeah, a Palestinian is anyone who claims to be a Palestinian. Just like a Mexican is someone who claims to be a Mexican, who was born in Mexico, who is a resident of Mexico, and who in general associates themselves with Mexican culture/heritage/language. A Palestinian is someone who claims to be a Palestinian, resides there, was born there, or in general associates themselves with Palestinian culture/heritage/language. East Bankers in Jordan don't claim to be Palestinians, neither do Lebanese Muslims, or Saudis... only Palestinians claim to be Palestinians. Who are you to say what someone is or what they aren't?

So, this is the reason the saudis want to raise the price of oil - paying all those countries off for palistan is a costly occupation. Hehehehe.

Uh... right... sure... Let me know when you wanna come back to reality.

Why would I promote a palisimian occupation of Israel?

Not sure, why don't you tell me?

Au contraire, I'm the greatest pro-palisimian fan here, that is why I recommend the international community undertakes an unprecedented project of their humanitarian relocation to arabia to relieve them of the misery they claim to suffer from day in and day out.

Well, that's fair. So basically, you propose that in order to make up for Jews' en-masse relocation to Palestine, we relocate Palestinians en-masse somewhere else, and 60 years later after a lot of bloodshed we relocate whoever they displaced somewhere else, and keep it going like that on and on?

Because surely you're not suggesting that any country is going to gladly jump at the opportunity of giving up a piece of land and placing 5 million people there, right? If it was that easy, you would've expected the United States or Western Europe (better yet, clear out Bavaria and give make it a Jewish homeland, that would've been fair) to give Jews a homeland in their own territory instead of outsourcing the problem to "somebody else." I mean, after all, Americans already have 50 states!! Europeans have 30 of them! Why should they have so many states, right?!

Indeed, I didn't know hamas supported Israel in Gaza and the so-called west bank. Dooh.

Sorry, what?