Fast and Furious: Big Deal? Or Tempest in a Teapot?

[Vidi]

sigh...I just posted that same article RDean.

A little LESS enthusiasm, a little MORE paying attention please?

 

[jillian]

Among other ministries, our church has adopted an orphanage located in one of the toughest areas of Juarez, Mexico. From time to time we load a truck or van with foodstuffs and other items for the orphanage, and send it down to Juarez to help out at much as we can. Those driving the van/truck and also the staff at the orphanage take the violent drug cartels and the resulting almost daily mayhem very seriously.

So when a government initiative dubbed "Fast and Furious" was thrust into the forefront when an American border guard was murdered, supposedly with guns furnished by the United States (?), the family of the guard demanded answers, that have yet to be forthcoming, and some media attention was generated.

The controversy has resulted in a bi-partisan Congressional panel holding Eric Holder, Attorney General, in contempt of Congress. This is the first time in our history that a sitting A.G. has been held in such contempt.

So what do you think? Much ado about nothing? Or should this be considered a really big deal?

Some facts compiled by the NRA Legislative Action Committee offered without comment regarding their accuracy:

the controversy has not resulted in any bi-partisan initiative against holder. in fact, if i recall correctly, the democrats in the House walked out because of the abject partisanship and viciousness of the contempt finding.

when the democratic house wanted documents from Harriet Miers, they waited over 100 days and made a deal with her for the records they finally got. This "House" waited less than a week and Issa, who swore to waste our tax money with 'a hearing a day' had a pre-arranged press conference to announce the contempt regardless of multiple appearances by Holder and thousands of disclosed documents.

So the answer to your query... it is a big deal... but F&F isn't the story. It's the abuse of power by the House.

 

[Dr Grump]

Okay, so if he can't show me where those statements are lies, please feel free to do so. I've been doing some research on my own today and so far I haven't found any of them that I can say are a lie. However, I also haven't been able to find conclusive evidence that the 'illegal' part of No. 1 is true either. I'm hoping somebody who has researched this will cast some light on that.

If you can find any evidence of number six I'd be most interested....That one alone belongs in the conspiracy theory folder...

No. 6 says: "The Obama administration armed violent Mexican drug cartels and endangered America lives to push a gun control agenda."

From Politfact:

A January 2012 report by House Democrats says the strategy of permitting illegal guns to flow to cartels in Mexico in hopes of building cases against vital figures originated with federal law officers in Arizona in 2006, which was when George W. Bush was president.

"Unfortunately, this strategy failed to include sufficient operational controls to stop these dangerous weapons from getting into the hands of violent criminals, creating a danger to public safety on both sides of the border," Rep. Elijah Cummings, D-Maryland, told colleagues in a Jan. 30, 2012, letter summarizing the report. His letter says Fast and Furious was the fourth federal operation since 2006 in which gun-walking occurred.

Finally, we reached the office of Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, who has been critical of Fast and Furious. Grassley spokeswoman Jill Gerber provided a partially redacted document that appears to be a Jan. 8, 2010, briefing paper on Fast and Furious originated by federal authorities based in Arizona. Its bullet point No. 13 opens: "Currently our strategy is to allow the transfer of firearms to continue to take place, albeit at a much slower pace, in order to further the investigation and allow for the identification of additional co-conspirators who would continue to operate and illegally traffic" firearms to Mexican drug trafficking organizations "perpetrating armed violence along the Southwest Border."

Informed of Perry’s statement, Gerber said by email: "It’s more accurate and complete to say the ‘Obama administration’ provided guns to Mexican drug cartels rather than" to "say President Obama himself did so."

Our ruling

Fast and Furious, intended to send guns to Mexican drug cartels toward building cases against key figures, took place on Obama’s watch. However, unlike the other results bemoaned by Perry at the convention -- growth in the federal debt and the passage of Obamacare and the stimulus -- we see no indication Obama had an influential role in the border operation. That is, there is no sign that Obama either initiated or approved the deliberate flow of guns to cartels.
PolitiFact Texas | Rick Perry says Obama has provided guns to Mexican drug cartels

?

 

[Foxfyre]

If you can find any evidence of number six I'd be most interested....That one alone belongs in the conspiracy theory folder...

No. 6 says: "The Obama administration armed violent Mexican drug cartels and endangered America lives to push a gun control agenda."

From Politfact:

A January 2012 report by House Democrats says the strategy of permitting illegal guns to flow to cartels in Mexico in hopes of building cases against vital figures originated with federal law officers in Arizona in 2006, which was when George W. Bush was president.

"Unfortunately, this strategy failed to include sufficient operational controls to stop these dangerous weapons from getting into the hands of violent criminals, creating a danger to public safety on both sides of the border," Rep. Elijah Cummings, D-Maryland, told colleagues in a Jan. 30, 2012, letter summarizing the report. His letter says Fast and Furious was the fourth federal operation since 2006 in which gun-walking occurred.

Finally, we reached the office of Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, who has been critical of Fast and Furious. Grassley spokeswoman Jill Gerber provided a partially redacted document that appears to be a Jan. 8, 2010, briefing paper on Fast and Furious originated by federal authorities based in Arizona. Its bullet point No. 13 opens: "Currently our strategy is to allow the transfer of firearms to continue to take place, albeit at a much slower pace, in order to further the investigation and allow for the identification of additional co-conspirators who would continue to operate and illegally traffic" firearms to Mexican drug trafficking organizations "perpetrating armed violence along the Southwest Border."

Informed of Perry’s statement, Gerber said by email: "It’s more accurate and complete to say the ‘Obama administration’ provided guns to Mexican drug cartels rather than" to "say President Obama himself did so."

Our ruling

Fast and Furious, intended to send guns to Mexican drug cartels toward building cases against key figures, took place on Obama’s watch. However, unlike the other results bemoaned by Perry at the convention -- growth in the federal debt and the passage of Obamacare and the stimulus -- we see no indication Obama had an influential role in the border operation. That is, there is no sign that Obama either initiated or approved the deliberate flow of guns to cartels.
PolitiFact Texas | Rick Perry says Obama has provided guns to Mexican drug cartels

?

You have to read the article dear. The support for Statement #6 is there.

 

[Vidi]

No. 6 says: "The Obama administration armed violent Mexican drug cartels and endangered America lives to push a gun control agenda."

From Politfact:

?

You have to read the article dear. The support for Statement #6 is there.

That is, there is no sign that Obama either initiated or approved the deliberate flow of guns to cartels.

Ummm you mean the article that clearly says #6 is false?

 

[Dr Grump]

No. 6 says: "The Obama administration armed violent Mexican drug cartels and endangered America lives to push a gun control agenda."

From Politfact:

?

You have to read the article dear. The support for Statement #6 is there.

Well in the part of the article that you posted, I expected to see the bold part of number six (above) proven. It wasn't. Not even in the green highlighted bit. Thus the question mark. So why would you address my point by cutting and pasting half an article that has nothing to do with said point....shrug...

 

[Foxfyre]

?

You have to read the article dear. The support for Statement #6 is there.

Well in the part of the article that you posted, I expected to see the bold part of number six (above) proven. It wasn't. Not even in the green highlighted bit. Thus the question mark. So why would you address my point by cutting and pasting half an article that has nothing to do with said point....shrug...

Because it verified that the Obama Administration armed drug cartels, on purpose. The whole purpose of Fast and Furious was a gun control operation was it not?