Extending Unemployment Benefits

[Mr. Peepers]

I'd go with trickle down anyday.

Why? It's been proven that it doesn't work... twice.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

What happens when demand increases but supply stays the same?

Why would supply stay the same? The people importing the wine can now afford to buy more wine and even enjoy a volume discount now. Profits and demand allow growth and expansion, not willy-nilly giving tax cuts to rich people.

 

[saveliberty]

Yep... you have the right to care and do lots of things to support them.. .it still does not make it the responsibility of you or government to take care of the responsibilities of others.... if you wish to freely donate to help a cause, including the cause of the unemployed, knock yourself out... and you'll receive nothing but praise from me... but when you force it upon others, nope, I will condemn support of any such action

Even if it's at the cost of the production and economy of the whole country??? Are you that blind? A prosperous, stable populace makes for a prosperous stable economy. If anything, it's trickle up, NOT trickle down - when people have extra money, they SPEND it, causing a ripple all the way to the top. We can now see that trickle down was a farce and a half... Every time it's been tried, it has failed, from Reagan to Bush part deux.

Tell me how this "trickle up" theory works.

Something like, poor people become middle class and then middle class become rich, before the rich get richer. Secretly the liberals want the rich to become poor.

 

[Jarhead]

I'd go with trickle down anyday.

Why? It's been proven that it doesn't work... twice.

Really?
Reagan's plan created 20 million jobs.
Even you agreed...there were 2 wars, a attack on our home land for the fist time since early ww2, the dot com bubble bursting, the credit bubble bursting, the housing market bubble bursting and two recessions both attributed to normal market saturation as most recessions are the result of.

So exactly how did it prove to NOT work?

If you had a leaky roof and you put a new roof on and a meteor came and fell through the roof and it leaked again, would you say that replacing the roof was a failed plan and you should not do it again?

 

[Mr. Peepers]

And I am lost. You are a woman? And you make 50K in NYC?

IMPOSSIBLE!

Actually, there are many here that make a heckuva lot more than I do. Are you being cute or an arse?

 

[antagon]

capitalism is a trickle up process in the first place. for that reason, the expectation that cash will trickle down was silly and never panned out when it was applied.

it is simple: dillute wealth concentrates upwards through consumption of produce from those who own the means to make it.

capitalism. read a book.

What you're forgetting is that it doesn't work when people at the bottom have nothing to put into circulation in the first place... like right now.

not forgotten, really. it doesn't change the way the system works. it simply doesn't work on aggregate any other way.

this is the foundation for our progressive and expensible tax, social welfare, social security, labor hour and pay standards, pension and ... unemployment insurance systems' roles in the economy. they are supposed to make it so that people at the bottom have something to put into circulation in the first place. our idea of broke or poor or at the bottom is very different than in the third world. 'nothing to put' in means barely making rent or living in projects on welfare.

this is where all the wealth creation in capitalism comes from, the trickle up. the minimal role which the government plays is part of what makes it so that virtually all of the world's wealth is created in the developed world - all which employ these systems - and the developing world relies on a trickle down poverty system where only the elite can access wealth creation in developed markets.

 

[Jarhead]

What happens when demand increases but supply stays the same?

Why would supply stay the same? The people importing the wine can now afford to buy more wine and even enjoy a volume discount now. Profits and demand allow growth and expansion, not willy-nilly giving tax cuts to rich people.

It is basic economic fact that prices are set by the supply and demand ratio.

It is basic business management that you do not increase the supply until you are convinced that the demand is constant or you may find yourself with an inventory surplus and therefore a negative profit on the inventory.

So in times as we are discussing, if the demand increases suddenly, the supply will not increase with it and therfore prices will increase...and when supply then increases to meet the demand, prices will stablize at the higher number.

Look at it another way....

the cost of a car now is much greater than the cost of a car in the 70's....but it is not a greater burden to own a car now than it was in the 70's.

DO you know why?

As personal income averages go up, so do the prices of goods and services.

If you spread the wealth and give everyone money, prices will go up and no one will be any wealthier than they are today.

That is the way things work in a free economy...and there will always be the poor, the middle class and the upper class.

And the rich will always be rich and the poor will always be poor.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

So exactly how did it prove to NOT work?

Look around you. His unemployment rate hit 10.7% also, did it not? He started the massive deficit spending and promoted deregulation of industry and spent like a drunken sorority girl in Bloomies, did he not? His policies definitely set us on the road to ruin that we are limping down today. Even one of his own advisers admitted that it was the GOP policies from Reagan on down (Clinton is to blame too w/ NAFTA) that caused the economic collapse.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

As personal income averages go up, so do the prices of goods and services.

But this is the hole in your theory and the main problem, incomes are not going up enough to allow money left over after necessary spending. Wages are stagnant or in decline while the cost of everything marches on. This is decimating the middle class. Soon, there will only be "rich" and
"poor". It is the middle class that keeps the economy humming.

 

[Jarhead]

And I am lost. You are a woman? And you make 50K in NYC?

IMPOSSIBLE!

Actually, there are many here that make a heckuva lot more than I do. Are you being cute or an arse?

I was being cute and an arse.

My wife is a much smarter woman than I am...well, since I am not a woman, I guess I should just say she is much smarter than I am....... and she was earning nearly 140K before she was laid off....and she was working on long island.

My best employee is a woman and she is actually in line to make more than I will this year. I am an s-corp so I take whatever is left over...and I not only gave her a raise this year, but I gave her a bonus in January as a thnk you for her dedication seeing as she was offered an opportunity elsewhwere and she refused to accept it even though it included a sign on bonus....

The one who offered her the job? My very first employee...He left me about 5 years ago with not only my blessing, but with my assistance to get him up and running....

And now he tired to steal my best employee!

Nah....he called me and diuscussed it with me as he knows I am nearing the end of the line (I am 52)...and I told him he had all the right to offer it to her and let her make her own decision.

So yes, I was being cute. Man or woman...does not matter....we are all equal.

 

[antagon]

Tell me how this "trickle up" theory works.

capitalism is a trickle up process in the first place. for that reason, the expectation that cash will trickle down was silly and never panned out when it was applied.

it is simple: dillute wealth concentrates upwards through consumption of produce from those who own the means to make it.

capitalism. read a book.

Bullshit. I have read a book or two and you have no idea what your talking about.

stubborn as a longhorn!

perhaps you can inform from your reading or otherwise who aggregates more profits quantitatively from the sale of goods? is it the worker who gets $0.50 for every $10 widget they make or is it the owner who gets $.10 from every $10 widget, but takes his dime from every widget out the door?

is it the wealthy alone who hold the $10 to buy the goods in the first place, or is it the middle and lower class shopping at a bargain retailers who really constitute the demand that the owner set up shop to supply? would this system work if it were just the wealthy who had the money?

take the wealth from the owner... all of it... and give him a 60-day line of credit, he would be wealthy again at the end of the month.

in this same vacuum, if you take all of the wealth from the consumers, the whole system will fail, no matter how much money the owner has, or whether you extended the consumers 60 days credit or not.

that's my bullshit. your turn.

 

[edthecynic]

I'd go with trickle down anyday.

Why? It's been proven that it doesn't work... twice.

Really?
Reagan's plan created 20 million jobs.

No it didn't.

The last time I challenged a CON$ervative who posted that crap they included Reagan's 8 years, Bush I's 4 years and the first year of Clinton's first term, 13 years total, to get to 20 million jobs. Even using that "Fuzzy Math," Clinton created more jobs in his remaining 7 years than St Ronnie's "13" years.

 

[cad]

Why? It's been proven that it doesn't work... twice.

Really?
Reagan's plan created 20 million jobs.

No it didn't.

The last time I challenged a CON$ervative who posted that crap they included Reagan's 8 years, Bush I's 4 years and the first year of Clinton's first term, 13 years total, to get to 20 million jobs. Even using that "Fuzzy Math," Clinton created more jobs in his remaining 7 years than St Ronnie's "13" years.

what policies of clinton's do you credit for the creation of all those jobs?

how many of those policies has obama duplicated?

i've asked this a bunch of times and can never get an answer.

people like ehtdythic love to credit CLINTON for creating millions of jobs, and blame bush for not doing the same.

WHAT THE FUCK, EXACTLY, DID CLINTON DO TO CREATE THOSE JOBS? why does he deserve so much credit?

 

[saveliberty]

Presidents create jobs. Oh, right.

Economic cycles and the government's manipulation of those cycles are all we have.

 

[Avatar4321]

Grow up.

Do you not realize that if this were one or two people I am referring to, I could see your "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" righty mentality. This country is dying. The wealthy are getting wealthier and everyone else is getting poorer and poorer. What do you think is going to happen?

The only reason this nation is dying is because you are killing the spirit of individuals by telling them they are helpless boobs in need of the government. They aren't. Stop pretending they arent and actually help them.

 

[Avatar4321]

they would get jobs and deal with it.

there are no jobs!!!

I hate to break this to you, but people create jobs everyday.

We need to get off this mentality that someone owes us a job and start creating them ourselves.

 

[Jarhead]

So exactly how did it prove to NOT work?

Look around you. His unemployment rate hit 10.7% also, did it not? He started the massive deficit spending and promoted deregulation of industry and spent like a drunken sorority girl in Bloomies, did he not? His policies definitely set us on the road to ruin that we are limping down today. Even one of his own advisers admitted that it was the GOP policies from Reagan on down (Clinton is to blame too w/ NAFTA) that caused the economic collapse.

Whoa....he?

You and I do not see eye to eye on this for many reasons but let me explain my political position.

HE did nothing nor is OBAMA doing anything.

Congress is who I blame. When a president veto's, I cringe. I do not appreciate one man deciding against the will of the people (who is represented by congress)....

So do me a favor. Do not talk to me about "he"....

He did nothing.

Congress is to blame if anyone.

And as for the economic collapse? The recession? Taht was nothing but your normal economic cycle.

The credit and housing collapse?

I blame the consumer. It was consumer greed that prompted people to try to make money with a fancy re-fi.....be it an adjustable or a baloon....it was greed that prompted them to do it.

Me? I ref-fi'd...with a fixed 20 year at 5.25...no suprises, no issues....and I only financed 40% soi there is no way I will have negative value.

 

[Avatar4321]

The wealthier are not inherently getting wealthier and the poorer are not inherently getting poorer.. but nice try

Are you insane or just so blindly partisan that you are no longer paying attention?

How is looking at reality partisan or insane?

 

[Jarhead]

Why? It's been proven that it doesn't work... twice.

Really?
Reagan's plan created 20 million jobs.

No it didn't.

The last time I challenged a CON$ervative who posted that crap they included Reagan's 8 years, Bush I's 4 years and the first year of Clinton's first term, 13 years total, to get to 20 million jobs. Even using that "Fuzzy Math," Clinton created more jobs in his remaining 7 years than St Ronnie's "13" years.

Yo...

Reagans POLICY is what created the jobs. Not Reagan.
Get with the program.
Presidents dont create jobs. Policies do.

 

[Avatar4321]

God, listening to righty talking points over and over and over again is like arguing with my cat's litterbox. Both are full of shit.

Talking points? Can't deal with reality so you try to label them as talking points. Typical.

When you are interested in an actual discussion of reality, let me know.