Evolution....Now a "Fact"???

PoliticalChic

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Oct 6, 2008
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Now, why would a proponent alter the commonly accepted meaning of words? Well....one does so to sway an argument in the direction the speaker wishes it to go.

Problem is....it is dishonest, and false.

And...those who do so should be judged to have lost the argument.




"Intellectually Honest and Intellectually Dishonest Debate Tactics

1. Redefining words: debater uses a word that helps him, but that does not apply, by redefining it to suit his purposes, like leftists calling government spending “investment” Intellectually honest and intellectually dishonest debate tactics




Here, an example of the words in question:

Theory: An assumption based on limited information or knowledge ;a conjecture.

Fact: Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed

I believe that these are the commonly accepted meanings of the two terms....
To my mind, these two terms are not synonymous


1. Although every reference I've seen referred to "the theory of evolution," the most popular writer on the subject, Stephen J. Gould, pushed it way over toward "proven."


Gould: " Well evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape-like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered.

Moreover, "fact" doesn't mean "absolute certainty"....."
http://courses.washington.edu/anth599/Evolution as Fact and Theory Gould 1981.pdf




2. Wow. Our pal, Dr. Gould, paleontologist, evolutionary biologist, and historian of science, as well as atheistic Marxist, seems willing to bend definitions to his desire when it comes to either religion or evolution.

a.fact: ' something that actually exists; reality; truth:

'Your fears have no basis in fact.'

something known to exist or to have happened
Fact Define Fact at Dictionary.com

b. something that truly exists or happens : something that has actual existence; a true piece of information
Fact - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

But, shouldn't we wait for proof before we award the idea with the term 'fact'?
Especially in science.




3." Something demonstrated to exist ...."
And on that basis, of course, evolution is not a fact.

"And let us dispose of a common misconception. The complete transmutation of even one animal species into a different species has never been directly observed either in the laboratory or in the field." Dean H. Kenyon (Professor of Biology, San Francisco State University), affidavit presented to the U.S. Supreme Court, No. 85-1513, Brief of Appellants, prepared under the direction of William J. Guste, Jr., Attorney General of the State of Louisiana, October 1985, p. A-16.



But let's cut Gould some slack...after all, it's only been a century and a half, with more scientists working today than all previous scientists who ever lived, combined....


Proof of Darwin's view will be found any day now.....any day....
 
Now, why would a proponent alter the commonly accepted meaning of words? Well....one does so to sway an argument in the direction the speaker wishes it to go.

Problem is....it is dishonest, and false.

And...those who do so should be judged to have lost the argument.




"Intellectually Honest and Intellectually Dishonest Debate Tactics

1. Redefining words: debater uses a word that helps him, but that does not apply, by redefining it to suit his purposes, like leftists calling government spending “investment” Intellectually honest and intellectually dishonest debate tactics




Here, an example of the words in question:

Theory: An assumption based on limited information or knowledge ;a conjecture.

Fact: Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed

I believe that these are the commonly accepted meanings of the two terms....
To my mind, these two terms are not synonymous


1. Although every reference I've seen referred to "the theory of evolution," the most popular writer on the subject, Stephen J. Gould, pushed it way over toward "proven."


Gould: " Well evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape-like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered.

Moreover, "fact" doesn't mean "absolute certainty"....."
http://courses.washington.edu/anth599/Evolution as Fact and Theory Gould 1981.pdf




2. Wow. Our pal, Dr. Gould, paleontologist, evolutionary biologist, and historian of science, as well as atheistic Marxist, seems willing to bend definitions to his desire when it comes to either religion or evolution.

a.fact: ' something that actually exists; reality; truth:

'Your fears have no basis in fact.'

something known to exist or to have happened
Fact Define Fact at Dictionary.com

b. something that truly exists or happens : something that has actual existence; a true piece of information
Fact - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

But, shouldn't we wait for proof before we award the idea with the term 'fact'?
Especially in science.




3." Something demonstrated to exist ...."
And on that basis, of course, evolution is not a fact.

"And let us dispose of a common misconception. The complete transmutation of even one animal species into a different species has never been directly observed either in the laboratory or in the field." Dean H. Kenyon (Professor of Biology, San Francisco State University), affidavit presented to the U.S. Supreme Court, No. 85-1513, Brief of Appellants, prepared under the direction of William J. Guste, Jr., Attorney General of the State of Louisiana, October 1985, p. A-16.



But let's cut Gould some slack...after all, it's only been a century and a half, with more scientists working today than all previous scientists combined....


Proof of Darwin's view will be found any day now.....any day....
Evolution is simply changes in species over time, and that's an observable fact.

Natural Selection is the widely accepted theory to explain evolution of living species.

Neither evolution nor the theory of natural selection have ever involved the concept of "complete transmutation into a different species", they address change within species.
 
Evolution is simply changes in species over time, and that's an observable fact.

Natural Selection is the widely accepted theory to explain evolution of living species.

Neither evolution nor the theory of natural selection have ever involved the concept of "complete transmutation into a different species", they address change within species.

Well said, but lost on Postal Chick.
 
Now, why would a proponent alter the commonly accepted meaning of words? Well....one does so to sway an argument in the direction the speaker wishes it to go.

Problem is....it is dishonest, and false.

And...those who do so should be judged to have lost the argument.




"Intellectually Honest and Intellectually Dishonest Debate Tactics

1. Redefining words: debater uses a word that helps him, but that does not apply, by redefining it to suit his purposes, like leftists calling government spending “investment” Intellectually honest and intellectually dishonest debate tactics




Here, an example of the words in question:

Theory: An assumption based on limited information or knowledge ;a conjecture.

Fact: Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed

I believe that these are the commonly accepted meanings of the two terms....
To my mind, these two terms are not synonymous


1. Although every reference I've seen referred to "the theory of evolution," the most popular writer on the subject, Stephen J. Gould, pushed it way over toward "proven."


Gould: " Well evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape-like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered.

Moreover, "fact" doesn't mean "absolute certainty"....."
http://courses.washington.edu/anth599/Evolution as Fact and Theory Gould 1981.pdf




2. Wow. Our pal, Dr. Gould, paleontologist, evolutionary biologist, and historian of science, as well as atheistic Marxist, seems willing to bend definitions to his desire when it comes to either religion or evolution.

a.fact: ' something that actually exists; reality; truth:

'Your fears have no basis in fact.'

something known to exist or to have happened
Fact Define Fact at Dictionary.com

b. something that truly exists or happens : something that has actual existence; a true piece of information
Fact - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

But, shouldn't we wait for proof before we award the idea with the term 'fact'?
Especially in science.




3." Something demonstrated to exist ...."
And on that basis, of course, evolution is not a fact.

"And let us dispose of a common misconception. The complete transmutation of even one animal species into a different species has never been directly observed either in the laboratory or in the field." Dean H. Kenyon (Professor of Biology, San Francisco State University), affidavit presented to the U.S. Supreme Court, No. 85-1513, Brief of Appellants, prepared under the direction of William J. Guste, Jr., Attorney General of the State of Louisiana, October 1985, p. A-16.



But let's cut Gould some slack...after all, it's only been a century and a half, with more scientists working today than all previous scientists combined....


Proof of Darwin's view will be found any day now.....any day....
Evolution is simply changes in species over time, and that's an observable fact.

Natural Selection is the widely accepted theory to explain evolution of living species.

Neither evolution nor the theory of natural selection have ever involved the concept of "complete transmutation into a different species", they address change within species.



Nonsense.


'Evolution' has a specific meaning in science, one clearly disposed of by Dean H. Kenyon (Professor of Biology, San Francisco State University) in the OP.
 
Evolution is absolutely a fact.

I don't think there is any doubt or dispute within the scientific community at all, nor is there within the general population.

I think it's fair to say that even the overwhelming majority of Christians accept and understand evolution perfectly well.
 
Yeah, what are you going to believe-

A science based on the collection of millions of fossils...

or a moldy old book written 3000 years ago.



For purposes of clarity....are you a liar or simply stupid?

"A science based on the collection of millions of fossils..."

Are you under the misapprehension that there are a " collection of millions of fossils" that support Darwin's theory?

There are not.
 
Evolution is absolutely a fact.

I don't think there is any doubt or dispute within the scientific community at all, nor is there within the general population.

I think it's fair to say that even the overwhelming majority of Christians accept and understand evolution perfectly well.




"....understand evolution perfectly well."

So...you are not included in that reference?

What is the proof that makes Darwin's theory....the commonly accepted meaning of 'evolution,' a fact?
 
For purposes of clarity....are you a liar or simply stupid?

"A science based on the collection of millions of fossils..."

Are you under the misapprehension that there are a " collection of millions of fossils" that support Darwin's theory?

There are not.

No, actually, they are, when they are put in CONTEXT the shows life forms change over time.

But this isn't about science, it's about faith.

If Evolution is true, the bible is false.

If the Bible is false, then there is no God.
 
Gould's discussion reveals that PC wants her owns definitions of theory and fact.

If evolution is true, the Bible is still true.

God transcends Bible and evolution and Political Chic and JoeB.
 
Last edited:
For purposes of clarity....are you a liar or simply stupid?

"A science based on the collection of millions of fossils..."

Are you under the misapprehension that there are a " collection of millions of fossils" that support Darwin's theory?

There are not.

No, actually, they are, when they are put in CONTEXT the shows life forms change over time.

But this isn't about science, it's about faith.

If Evolution is true, the bible is false.

If the Bible is false, then there is no God.




"But this isn't about science, it's about faith."
True...there is no proof, but you accept it on faith.

First honest thing you've said.
 
Now, why would a proponent alter the commonly accepted meaning of words? Well....one does so to sway an argument in the direction the speaker wishes it to go.

Problem is....it is dishonest, and false.

And...those who do so should be judged to have lost the argument.




"Intellectually Honest and Intellectually Dishonest Debate Tactics

1. Redefining words: debater uses a word that helps him, but that does not apply, by redefining it to suit his purposes, like leftists calling government spending “investment” Intellectually honest and intellectually dishonest debate tactics




Here, an example of the words in question:

Theory: An assumption based on limited information or knowledge ;a conjecture.

Fact: Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed

I believe that these are the commonly accepted meanings of the two terms....
To my mind, these two terms are not synonymous


1. Although every reference I've seen referred to "the theory of evolution," the most popular writer on the subject, Stephen J. Gould, pushed it way over toward "proven."


Gould: " Well evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape-like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered.

Moreover, "fact" doesn't mean "absolute certainty"....."
http://courses.washington.edu/anth599/Evolution as Fact and Theory Gould 1981.pdf




2. Wow. Our pal, Dr. Gould, paleontologist, evolutionary biologist, and historian of science, as well as atheistic Marxist, seems willing to bend definitions to his desire when it comes to either religion or evolution.

a.fact: ' something that actually exists; reality; truth:

'Your fears have no basis in fact.'

something known to exist or to have happened
Fact Define Fact at Dictionary.com

b. something that truly exists or happens : something that has actual existence; a true piece of information
Fact - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

But, shouldn't we wait for proof before we award the idea with the term 'fact'?
Especially in science.




3." Something demonstrated to exist ...."
And on that basis, of course, evolution is not a fact.

"And let us dispose of a common misconception. The complete transmutation of even one animal species into a different species has never been directly observed either in the laboratory or in the field." Dean H. Kenyon (Professor of Biology, San Francisco State University), affidavit presented to the U.S. Supreme Court, No. 85-1513, Brief of Appellants, prepared under the direction of William J. Guste, Jr., Attorney General of the State of Louisiana, October 1985, p. A-16.



But let's cut Gould some slack...after all, it's only been a century and a half, with more scientists working today than all previous scientists combined....


Proof of Darwin's view will be found any day now.....any day....
Evolution is simply changes in species over time, and that's an observable fact.

Natural Selection is the widely accepted theory to explain evolution of living species.

Neither evolution nor the theory of natural selection have ever involved the concept of "complete transmutation into a different species", they address change within species.



Nonsense.


'Evolution' has a specific meaning in science, one clearly disposed of by Dean H. Kenyon (Professor of Biology, San Francisco State University) in the OP.
Do you understand the difference between complete transmutation into a different species, and changes over time within a species?

They are two different things, and Dr Kenyon has never disputed the fact that species change over time, which is what evolution is.
 
Now, why would a proponent alter the commonly accepted meaning of words? Well....one does so to sway an argument in the direction the speaker wishes it to go.

Problem is....it is dishonest, and false.

And...those who do so should be judged to have lost the argument.




"Intellectually Honest and Intellectually Dishonest Debate Tactics

1. Redefining words: debater uses a word that helps him, but that does not apply, by redefining it to suit his purposes, like leftists calling government spending “investment” Intellectually honest and intellectually dishonest debate tactics




Here, an example of the words in question:

Theory: An assumption based on limited information or knowledge ;a conjecture.

Fact: Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed

I believe that these are the commonly accepted meanings of the two terms....
To my mind, these two terms are not synonymous


1. Although every reference I've seen referred to "the theory of evolution," the most popular writer on the subject, Stephen J. Gould, pushed it way over toward "proven."


Gould: " Well evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape-like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered.

Moreover, "fact" doesn't mean "absolute certainty"....."
http://courses.washington.edu/anth599/Evolution as Fact and Theory Gould 1981.pdf




2. Wow. Our pal, Dr. Gould, paleontologist, evolutionary biologist, and historian of science, as well as atheistic Marxist, seems willing to bend definitions to his desire when it comes to either religion or evolution.

a.fact: ' something that actually exists; reality; truth:

'Your fears have no basis in fact.'

something known to exist or to have happened
Fact Define Fact at Dictionary.com

b. something that truly exists or happens : something that has actual existence; a true piece of information
Fact - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

But, shouldn't we wait for proof before we award the idea with the term 'fact'?
Especially in science.




3." Something demonstrated to exist ...."
And on that basis, of course, evolution is not a fact.

"And let us dispose of a common misconception. The complete transmutation of even one animal species into a different species has never been directly observed either in the laboratory or in the field." Dean H. Kenyon (Professor of Biology, San Francisco State University), affidavit presented to the U.S. Supreme Court, No. 85-1513, Brief of Appellants, prepared under the direction of William J. Guste, Jr., Attorney General of the State of Louisiana, October 1985, p. A-16.



But let's cut Gould some slack...after all, it's only been a century and a half, with more scientists working today than all previous scientists combined....


Proof of Darwin's view will be found any day now.....any day....
Evolution is simply changes in species over time, and that's an observable fact.

Natural Selection is the widely accepted theory to explain evolution of living species.

Neither evolution nor the theory of natural selection have ever involved the concept of "complete transmutation into a different species", they address change within species.



Nonsense.


'Evolution' has a specific meaning in science, one clearly disposed of by Dean H. Kenyon (Professor of Biology, San Francisco State University) in the OP.
Do you understand the difference between complete transmutation into a different species, and changes over time within a species?

They are two different things, and Dr Kenyon has never disputed the fact that species change over time, which is what evolution is.



Change within a species is not evolution, and is not related to what Darwin posed as the reason for diversity of life.

It seems you don't understand that.
 
For purposes of clarity....are you a liar or simply stupid?

"A science based on the collection of millions of fossils..."

Are you under the misapprehension that there are a " collection of millions of fossils" that support Darwin's theory?

There are not.

No, actually, they are, when they are put in CONTEXT the shows life forms change over time.

But this isn't about science, it's about faith.

If Evolution is true, the bible is false.

If the Bible is false, then there is no God.




"But this isn't about science, it's about faith."
True...there is no proof, but you accept it on faith.

First honest thing you've said.
Faith has nothing to do with evolution. You don't need faith to believe in things you can see with your own eyes. Natural Selection doesn't involve faith either, because it's a theory. Faith demands unconditional acceptance, and theories, within the scientific method, are never unconditionally accepted as facts.
 
Yeah, what are you going to believe-

A science based on the collection of millions of fossils...

or a moldy old book written 3000 years ago.



For purposes of clarity....are you a liar or simply stupid?

"A science based on the collection of millions of fossils..."

Are you under the misapprehension that there are a " collection of millions of fossils" that support Darwin's theory?

There are not.
there goes your credibility (if anyone still thought you had some)
 
Now, why would a proponent alter the commonly accepted meaning of words? Well....one does so to sway an argument in the direction the speaker wishes it to go.

Problem is....it is dishonest, and false.

And...those who do so should be judged to have lost the argument.




"Intellectually Honest and Intellectually Dishonest Debate Tactics

1. Redefining words: debater uses a word that helps him, but that does not apply, by redefining it to suit his purposes, like leftists calling government spending “investment” Intellectually honest and intellectually dishonest debate tactics




Here, an example of the words in question:

Theory: An assumption based on limited information or knowledge ;a conjecture.

Fact: Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed

I believe that these are the commonly accepted meanings of the two terms....
To my mind, these two terms are not synonymous


1. Although every reference I've seen referred to "the theory of evolution," the most popular writer on the subject, Stephen J. Gould, pushed it way over toward "proven."


Gould: " Well evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape-like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered.

Moreover, "fact" doesn't mean "absolute certainty"....."
http://courses.washington.edu/anth599/Evolution as Fact and Theory Gould 1981.pdf




2. Wow. Our pal, Dr. Gould, paleontologist, evolutionary biologist, and historian of science, as well as atheistic Marxist, seems willing to bend definitions to his desire when it comes to either religion or evolution.

a.fact: ' something that actually exists; reality; truth:

'Your fears have no basis in fact.'

something known to exist or to have happened
Fact Define Fact at Dictionary.com

b. something that truly exists or happens : something that has actual existence; a true piece of information
Fact - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

But, shouldn't we wait for proof before we award the idea with the term 'fact'?
Especially in science.




3." Something demonstrated to exist ...."
And on that basis, of course, evolution is not a fact.

"And let us dispose of a common misconception. The complete transmutation of even one animal species into a different species has never been directly observed either in the laboratory or in the field." Dean H. Kenyon (Professor of Biology, San Francisco State University), affidavit presented to the U.S. Supreme Court, No. 85-1513, Brief of Appellants, prepared under the direction of William J. Guste, Jr., Attorney General of the State of Louisiana, October 1985, p. A-16.



But let's cut Gould some slack...after all, it's only been a century and a half, with more scientists working today than all previous scientists combined....


Proof of Darwin's view will be found any day now.....any day....
Evolution is simply changes in species over time, and that's an observable fact.

Natural Selection is the widely accepted theory to explain evolution of living species.

Neither evolution nor the theory of natural selection have ever involved the concept of "complete transmutation into a different species", they address change within species.



Nonsense.


'Evolution' has a specific meaning in science, one clearly disposed of by Dean H. Kenyon (Professor of Biology, San Francisco State University) in the OP.
Do you understand the difference between complete transmutation into a different species, and changes over time within a species?

They are two different things, and Dr Kenyon has never disputed the fact that species change over time, which is what evolution is.



Change within a species is not evolution, and is not related to what Darwin posed as the reason for diversity of life.

It seems you don't understand that.
That's not what all my Anthropology professors told me in college.

You misinterpreted what Kenyon said, or believed someone else's misinterpretation, and I'm sure you've done the same with Darwin
 
What is the proof that makes Darwin's theory....the commonly accepted meaning of 'evolution,' a fact?

It's called science.

By all means present the last peer-reviewed scientific paper that rejected evolution as a concept.



Right after you provide proof of one species becoming another.

That isn't what evolution is, is it?

I'll ask again - please presenr a scientific paper which rejects evolution.

I'll tell you now - you won't find one, because it's a proven, undisputed scientific fact.
 
Yeah, what are you going to believe-

A science based on the collection of millions of fossils...

or a moldy old book written 3000 years ago.



For purposes of clarity....are you a liar or simply stupid?

"A science based on the collection of millions of fossils..."

Are you under the misapprehension that there are a " collection of millions of fossils" that support Darwin's theory?

There are not.
There millions, probably billions.

But not all in one collection
 

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