Evidence For The S & P's position

Discussion in 'Economy' started by PoliticalChic, Aug 8, 2011.

  1. PoliticalChic
    Online

    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2008
    Messages:
    55,765
    Thanks Received:
    15,641
    Trophy Points:
    2,190
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Ratings:
    +24,936
    I need to be reassured as to the competence of his President…but that will be difficult in the face of recent events:

    1. “There's a fascinating story over at The Hill that was published yesterday, "How John Boehner escaped disaster." I don't think we should get ahead of ourselves here, but certainly there's a storyline emerging here that when it comes to the art of the deal, Boehner is one of the more capable politicians of the era.

    But now that details from the smoky backroom debates are emerging, how's Barack Obama's reputation faring? Well, not good at all. Here's a curious detail from The Hill's report on Boehner. It seems that Democrats and Republicans asked "the only adult in the room" to leave said room so they could hash out a deal:

    On July 23, they claim, the White House called Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), telling her not to participate on a call with Boehner, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.). Pelosi informed Reid, who declined to participate, and the call was canceled, the Republican sources said. (A Pelosi spokesman could not be reached for comment.)

    Later that day, the four leaders met with Obama at the White House. At one point, GOP officials said, the Democratic and Republican leaders asked Obama and his aides to leave the room to let them negotiate.
    A tentative deal was subsequently struck, but Obama privately threatened to veto it, the sources said.”
    Democrats, Republicans Asked Obama to Leave Room During Debt Negotiations | The Weekly Standard

    The participants tossed the President????


    2. While it is accepted by just about all concerned that the problem is too much debt, overspending without commensurate oversight, there is one participant in the mix who felt that, like Goldilocks, everything was ‘just right.’ Who was it who demanded that Congress give him a ‘clean bill’ authorizing increasing the debt ceiling with no cuts to spending???

    “White House officials maintained Friday that the administration wants to see a "clean" increase to the federal debt limit, despite President Obama saying it will likely be paired with spending cuts.

    The administration has maintained for months that Congress should not attach other provisions to a vote to increase the $14.3 trillion debt ceiling, which it expects to hit in mid-May. Republicans are demanding major spending reforms in exchange for their votes to raise that limit.”
    White House: Obama hasn't changed on 'clean' debt vote - The Hill's On The Money

    Clean bill....no cuts!!! That was President Obama's position!!

    3. And what was the attitude of the house-organ of the Liberal rank-and-file, the Daily Kos???

    “We are a democracy, and we have open and transparent budget procedures that let everyone weigh in. It goes against democracy to allow a group to take the country hostage and demand changes in our budget and programs. Don't let them get away with it. It is the Constitutional responsibility of members of Congress to follow the budget procedures. The only reason Republicans are doing this is that Democrats ignored this responsibility in the past and allows hostage-taking to succeed, bypassing the open, transparent budget procedures demanded by democracy and our Constitution.
    Last week, in A Clean Debt Limit Bill Is The Only Acceptable Path, …”
    Daily Kos: Demand A Clean Debt Ceiling Bill With NO Conditions

    Ya think the folks at Standard and Poors read this stuff, too?


    4. Here's a bit more proof about the rectitude of what the Right has been saying about the Left:
    "ABC's Cokie Roberts said something on national television Sunday that made her colleague George Will shake his head on camera.

    During a "This Week" discussion about the recent credit rating downgrade by Standard and Poor's Roberts said, 'The problem that we have here is the Constitution of the United States of America which actually does require people to come together from different perspectives"


    Read more: Cokie Roberts on Downgrade: 'The Problem That We Have Here Is the Constitution' | NewsBusters.org
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2011
  2. william the wie
    Offline

    william the wie Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2009
    Messages:
    7,281
    Thanks Received:
    674
    Trophy Points:
    175
    Ratings:
    +1,605
    PC if you didn't watch the business channels prior to the Asian opening last night you missed some of the best polite criticisms of Obama I ever seen.
     
  3. Wiseacre
    Offline

    Wiseacre Retired USAF Chief Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    Messages:
    6,025
    Thanks Received:
    1,192
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    San Antonio, TX
    Ratings:
    +1,194
    The bottomline for S&P was that our debt is spiraling out of control and the latest debt ceiling did not instill confidence on anybody's part that a solution to the problem had at least been started. I think they shoulda waited a coupla months to see how the deal with the super committee works out, they mighta jumped the shark a little bit.

    But the issue is still there, repubs won't raise revenues and dems won't restructure the entitlements. No action has been taken to realistically grow the conomy and create jobs, the president's ideas are really just more of the same: spend more money. Temporary fixes that give you a bump and then the economy slides back down, like a sugar high.
     
  4. william the wie
    Offline

    william the wie Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2009
    Messages:
    7,281
    Thanks Received:
    674
    Trophy Points:
    175
    Ratings:
    +1,605
    Despite the early returns, increasingly the media are criticizing Obama and congressional Ds as the cause. Entitlement structure is the sole cause of the problem:

    Social security and medicare get tied to life expectancy or they will go bankrupt. Already the patent office and SEC have had critical failures due to lack of resources. Bernie Madoff was a problem is the 90s and could not be prosecuted because the SEC lacked the resources to make a case. There is not enough discretionary spending for the cuts there to matter.

    Even with the end of the empire there is not enough money in the defense budget to greatly delay the day of reckoning for entitlements.
     
  5. PoliticalChic
    Online

    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2008
    Messages:
    55,765
    Thanks Received:
    15,641
    Trophy Points:
    2,190
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Ratings:
    +24,936
    "Entitlement structure is the sole cause of the problem..."

    Even as politicians and pundits debate taxes and spending — and spar over the difference between debt and deficit — an economic bogeyman lurks in the closet: government regulations that cost the economy nearly $2 trillion a year.

    That staggering figure comes courtesy of Wayne Crews, policy vice president at the Competitive Enterprise Institute, who scrutinized the 81,405 pages of the Federal Registry. That catalog chronicles the nation’s regulations on businesses and state and local governments.

    Crews' report, titled Ten Thousand Commandments: An Annual Snapshot of the Federal Regulatory State, contends that government regulations cost the economy $1.75 trillion in 2008

    Read more on Newsmax.com: 'Hidden Tax': Govt Rules Cost Economy Nearly $2 Trillion
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  6. PoliticalChic
    Online

    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2008
    Messages:
    55,765
    Thanks Received:
    15,641
    Trophy Points:
    2,190
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Ratings:
    +24,936
    It's philosophy, Willie...not economics that is the problem.

    FDR made the seminal error of converting political equality to economic equality...and what we see today is the ineluctable result of such programs.

    I know you are familiar with Hayek...

    This is what F.A.Hayek thought about the idea: "From the fact that people are very different it follows that, if we treat them equally, the result must be inequality in their actual position, and that the only way to place them in an equal position would be to treat them differently. Equality before the law and material equality are therefore not only different but are in conflict with each other; and we can achieve either one or the other, but not both at the same time" Friedrich August von Hayek, “THE CONSTITUTION OF LIBERTY,” p. 87.
     
  7. expat_panama
    Offline

    expat_panama Silver Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2011
    Messages:
    2,461
    Thanks Received:
    252
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Ratings:
    +253
    That statement just generated a good half hour of discussion in our household.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  8. PoliticalChic
    Online

    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2008
    Messages:
    55,765
    Thanks Received:
    15,641
    Trophy Points:
    2,190
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Ratings:
    +24,936
    Here's the short version:

    You can have equality, or prosperity in a nation, but not both.


    Maybe 15 minutes?
     
  9. 007
    Offline

    007 Charter Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    38,328
    Thanks Received:
    7,868
    Trophy Points:
    1,130
    Ratings:
    +11,946
    So what is obama's answer to this? *MORE* regulations on businesses.

    Is it any wonder that even his pet business that gave heavily to his campaign are moving their jobs OUT of America? GE. Is it any wonder why the stock market is in open free fall? No.

    Anyone expecting obama to "create jobs" has to be insane. First off, HE can't. All he could do is eliminate all the NEW regulations he's put on businesses here in America, and maybe a few of the old ones. Second, the jobs are GONE, and unless America turns back the clock and makes this country "business friendly" once again, those jobs will be gone for good. 9-10% will remain the norm for unemployment in this country.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2011
  10. George Costanza
    Offline

    George Costanza A Friendly Liberal

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    5,179
    Thanks Received:
    1,087
    Trophy Points:
    155
    Location:
    Los Angeles area.
    Ratings:
    +1,187
    Does anyone know wny my PaperMate pen won't work? Any and all suggestions would be appreciated.

    And if no one can help me out there, then I need a really good recipe for meat loaf.

    Thank you very much.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1

Share This Page