Everyone should be in favor of reducing taxes on the "rich"

[Bern80]

well, YOU would also sell out America for a few extra dollars too so.. I guess you'll have to forgive me for proving my point about Japan's economy without trying to get hung up on similar failed opinons to yours.

That isn't some mild oversite there bud. Below you say your system of isolationism is guing to work. Yet this expert you sited says it won't (along with a couple other people I povided). So explain why you, who have zero as far as credentials go are right and the guy YOU cited is wrong.

"in these economic times" are the product of your free market capitalism. Closing the gaping fucking wound WOULD ALLOW EVEN THOSE OF THE MIDDLE CLASS WITH JOBS TO FLOURISH BECAUSE THERE WOULD BE MORE LOCAL LOPTIONS AND COMPETITION for fucks sake, are you REALLY going to try and pretend that WAL MART didn't kill off the COMPETITION of the local fucking maytag store versus the local fucking Montgommery ward? The LOCAL grocery stores? You know.. those MOM AND POP STORES THAT WERE THE SECOND CASUALTY OF YOUR RHETORICAL BULLSHIT? do you think SEARS and FAMOUS BAR are foreign fucking names, dude? Do you think COKE AND PEPSI NEED A FUCKING JAPANESE BEVERAGE IN ORDER TO COMPETE with each other? Are the prices of BUD AND MILLER SKY HIGH BECAUSE SAPPORO IS NOT OFFERED AT A CHEAPER RATE? The list goes on, dude.

Ah, so we're expanding now to not just blocking out foreign competetion, but American competition as well. Sweet. So people with jobs are going to somehow improve their financial standing because they will have fewer things to choose from and business havn't been put in a position to allow them to give raises. got it.

Reducing The cost of production is not my goal. You wanna reduce the cost of something? reduce the cost of management and CEOs. Your top end is rationalized despite it's failures to your own demise. It's not a worker who decides not to build a fucking smaller compact car instead of hulking fucking SUVs. Say, what do THOSE salaries and severence packages look like on the cost of business, dude? oh.. yea.. we don't want to think about that.

Giving the jobless jobs.. Hey, worked during the new deal.. just like capitalism FAILED bringing us the depression! Gosh, it's a fucking mystery BERN!

Good, great, wonderful. You have learned how to sacrafice the future for the sake of the present. You really had to twist that up real good to make the middle class with jobs come out ahead on this deal didn't you. You just stated they are seeing salary cuts. What about your proposal is going to allow those salaries to go back up?

 

[Shogun]

That isn't some mild oversite there bud. Below you say your system of isolationism is guing to work. Yet this expert you sited says it won't (along with a couple other people I povided). So explain why you, who have zero as far as credentials go are right and the guy YOU cited is wrong.

"expert" is the key word here. those couple other people are of the same failing impression as you are. So again, forgive me for taking those of your similar opinion less valid as you do.

And i've posted my evidence, dude. the numbers don't support your opinion. Neither does reality.

Ah, so we're expanding now to not just blocking out foreign competetion, but American competition as well. Sweet. So people with jobs are going to somehow improve their financial standing because they will have fewer things to choose from and business havn't been put in a position to allow them to give raises. got it.


Not at all.. IM THE ONE POINTING OUT THE REALITY OF AMERICAN COMPETITION. for real.. you are not as savvy as you'd like to think you are. Indeed, I listed a whole list of AMERICAN competitors who have HISTORICALLY been driven out of business by your lunge for cheap foreign shit. Mom and Pop stores, remember? Businesses don't give raises to CHEAPER LABOR, dude. go ask a wal mart employee who had to switch jobs because their construction job was outsourced to foreign labor.


Good, great, wonderful. You have learned how to sacrafice the future for the sake of the present. You really had to twist that up real good to make the middle class with jobs come out ahead on this deal didn't you. You just stated they are seeing salary cuts. What about your proposal is going to allow those salaries to go back up?



SACRIFICE THE FUTURE? Are you fucking KIDDING ME? HAHAHAHA! now THATS funny, capitalist. Tell that joke to the STEEL WORKERS AND AUTO WORKERS you don't give a fuck about as their SOL drops to that of a mexcian ghetto.

Again, by filtering CHEAP FOREIGN GOODS from OUR consumer market we keep AMERICANS EMPLOYED at a SOL that isn't the degraded byproduct of your free market capitalism. go ask an auto worker all about that.

 

[Bern80]

"expert" is the key word here. those couple other people are of the same failing impression as you are. So again, forgive me for taking those of your similar opinion less valid as you do.

And i've posted my evidence, dude. the numbers don't support your opinion. Neither does reality.

And your own citation says your opinion is wrong, Sorry if I take the word of actual economist over a know nothing like you.

Not at all.. IM THE ONE POINTING OUT THE REALITY OF AMERICAN COMPETITION. for real.. you are not as savvy as you'd like to think you are. Indeed, I listed a whole list of AMERICAN competitors who have HISTORICALLY been driven out of business by your lunge for cheap foreign shit. Mom and Pop stores, remember? Businesses don't give raises to CHEAPER LABOR, dude. go ask a wal mart employee who had to switch jobs because their construction job was outsourced to foreign labor.

You're the one who brought up Wal-Mart, not me.

Again, by filtering CHEAP FOREIGN GOODS from OUR consumer market we keep AMERICANS EMPLOYED at a SOL that isn't the degraded byproduct of your free market capitalism. go ask an auto worker all about that.

But that is all you have done. How does your system improve the financial standing of EVERYBODY? Other than the people you have given jobs, how does what you are propossing put more money in people's pockets?

 

[Shogun]

And your own citation says your opinion is wrong, Sorry if I take the word of actual economist over a know nothing like you.


No, my own citation validated my claim that Japan is a closed system. Indeed, given your track record thus far you cant take whomever you want as the lord of economics. I'll still be over here with the masses who are taking your kind down!




You're the one who brought up Wal-Mart, not me.

Indeed, BECAUSE IT IS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW YOUR OPEN IMPORTS HAVE KILLED LOCAL COMPETITION. damn, dude.. have I put you into "flailing about" mode so soon? Keep up. WHAT MOM AND POP STORE, FROM GROCERY TO APPLIANCE, COMPETES WITH WAL MART, FUCKSTICK?



But that is all you have done. How does your system improve the financial standing of EVERYBODY. Other than the people you have given jobs. How does what you are propossing put more money in people's pockets?


Clearly, it won't improve your top 2%. boo fucking hoo. there are more of us than there are of you. I suggest you start packing your fucking bags now. I never claimed that it would provide a windfall for EVERYBODY.. but it WOULD create a solid middle class that won't be the casualty of your retarded fucking economic opinon and wealth worship. And, if you can't fathom how my plan puts MORE money in MORE people's pockets then, again, take your stupid ass to an AUTO plant and ask them after they get their pink slip so that some mexicans can build the cars on the cheap.

 

[Paulie]

Shogun, I'm no fan of Wal Mart, but why should they be chastized for the position they've taken in the market? They used their resources in such a way that they perfected their art. They're at a place in the market, that 100 years ago, every businessman dreamed of being in. Now that they're in that position, they are chided for being there. I don't understand. If it's their supposed greed, monopolization, marginalization, and/or manipulation, I'd like to hear your specifics on that.

Why should a business not be able to flourish to the maximum extent possible?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Why should a business not be able to flourish to the maximum extent possible?

because it not fair. Walmart should just divide up all its profits equally among all its employees that would be fair.

didn't you know that all corporations are evil and the democrats are the exorcists led by the high priest Obama?

He will fix all our broken souls and make the world fair for all.

GLORY HALLELUJAHHH !!!!

Can I get an amen?

 

[Bern80]

No, my own citation validated my claim that Japan is a closed system. Indeed, given your track record thus far you cant take whomever you want as the lord of economics. I'll still be over here with the masses who are taking your kind down!

So your article has nothing negative to say about isolationism?

Indeed, BECAUSE IT IS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW YOUR OPEN IMPORTS HAVE KILLED LOCAL COMPETITION. damn, dude.. have I put you into "flailing about" mode so soon? Keep up. WHAT MOM AND POP STORE, FROM GROCERY TO APPLIANCE, COMPETES WITH WAL MART, FUCKSTICK?

Wal-Mart is an AMERICAN company "fuckstick".

Clearly, it won't improve your top 2%. boo fucking hoo. there are more of us than there are of you. I suggest you start packing your fucking bags now. I never claimed that it would provide a windfall for EVERYBODY.. but it WOULD create a solid middle class that won't be the casualty of your retarded fucking economic opinon and wealth worship. And, if you can't fathom how my plan puts MORE money in MORE people's pockets then, again, take your stupid ass to an AUTO plant and ask them after they get their pink slip so that some mexicans can build the cars on the cheap.

I didn't ask about the top 2%. It's simple exercise, follow the money. Under your plan how does saveing some jobs put more money in the hands of everybody? Under your system they aren't going to save money on consumables. So the only other way is that somehow businesses are going to start giving raises i guess. How does your plan facilitate a business doing that?

 

[Shogun]

Shogun, I'm no fan of Wal Mart, but why should they be chastized for the position they've taken in the market? They used their resources in such a way that they perfected their art. They're at a place in the market, that 100 years ago, every businessman dreamed of being in. Now that they're in that position, they are chided for being there. I don't understand. If it's their supposed greed, monopolization, marginalization, and/or manipulation, I'd like to hear your specifics on that.

Why should a business not be able to flourish to the maximum extent possible?

to the detriment of damn near all of any other competitive forces in retail? Based on cheap foreign shit that undermines the value of AMERICAN labor? THEIR ART could not be perfected without imports. Let them try to dominate the retail market from behind a tariff and you MIGHT just see actual competition creep back up into our retail options. WHY? Because their near monopoly is doing to retail what bell labs did for communication.

 

[Shogun]

because it not fair. Walmart should just divide up all its profits equally among all its employees that would be fair.

didn't you know that all corporations are evil and the democrats are the exorcists led by the high priest Obama?

He will fix all our broken souls and make the world fair for all.

GLORY HALLELUJAHHH !!!!

Can I get an amen?

BELL LABS, motherfucker. deal with it.

 

[Shogun]

So your article has nothing negative to say about isolationism?

grasping for straws today, eh bern? pathetic. Again, ONE MORE TIME, I posted that article to illustrate YOUR claim that JAPAN WAS NOT A CLOSED MARKET SYSTEM. Sure, the article agrees with you. So what. That opinion and a dollar might get me a double cheeseburger. Didn't we cover this 4 posts ago?


Wal-Mart is an AMERICAN company "fuckstick".

SO WAS BELL LABS, COCK POCKET.



I didn't ask about the top 2%. What I asked chicken shit is other than the jobs that have been saved, how does your system put money into the pockets of the middle class that you want to help so badly?



by promoting and strengthening a local economy based on LOCAL OPPORTUNITY FOR LOCAL EMPLOYEES. Are you REALLY this stupid? Please tell me.. WHY to local Chambers of Commerce urge people to BUY LOCAL, ass master? SERVED!

 

[Bern80]

grasping for straws today, eh bern? pathetic. Again, ONE MORE TIME, I posted that article to illustrate YOUR claim that JAPAN WAS NOT A CLOSED MARKET SYSTEM. Sure, the article agrees with you. So what. That opinion and a dollar might get me a double cheeseburger. Didn't we cover this 4 posts ago?

Grow a sack you pussy. Does or does not not the article YOU cited warn of the negative impacts of the very system YOU believe to be the cure for our current situation?

SO WAS BELL LABS, COCK POCKET.

Now you're just being obtuse. First you start talking about how globalization is ruining the country, then as evidence of that you point to AMERICAN companies competeing with other American companies? Really your argument is competition okay, but only within U.S. borders and not so much so that one company can actually drive another out of the market place. Serioulsy what would be your excuse if Chevy came up with something that absolutely obliterated Ford and they all lost their jobs. Hey it's competition within our borders right?

by promoting and strengthening a local economy based on LOCAL OPPORTUNITY FOR LOCAL EMPLOYEES. Are you REALLY this stupid? Please tell me.. WHY to local Chambers of Commerce urge people to BUY LOCAL, ass master? SERVED!

Are you this stupid? You must be since you aren't able to answer a simple question. The only thing I can surmise your theory is, is that by some people now haveing jobs that they didn't they will somehow have enough purchasing power, that will allow other businesses to expand, hire more people, give raises, etc.? Are you really that naive?

Usually I tell people to look at the big picture. Well start looking at the small picture. The very same principles that apply to the global market, also would apply if our economy was confined within U.S. borders. If market conditions are better in Seattle than in New York then the business could very well move and people in New York could very well lose their jobs? What's going to be your excuse then? Similar to how the overseas markets have competitive advantages in labor, AMERICAN companies like your Wal-Mart's and your Home Depot's have competitive advantages over the Mom and Pop's. I suppose your plan would be to enact interstate tariffs then?

 

[Shogun]

Grow a sack you pussy. Does or does not not the article YOU cited warn of the negative impacts of the very system YOU believe to be the cure for our current situation?


no, it doesn't bother me at all that the writer of an article I used to BITCHSLAP you assertion that japan wasn't a closed market actually agrees with your failure of an economic theory. THATS what having balls enough to take you porky capitalists bastards on looks like. What is distinctly VAGINAL here is how you are trying to avoid the FACT of this evidence relating to Japan's markets by deflecting to some like minded author of an editorial. Trust me, dude. The irony of your post is not lost on me.




Now you're just being obtuse. First you start talking about how globalization is ruining the country, then as evidence of that you point to AMERICAN companies competeing with other American companies? Really your argument is competition okay, but only within U.S. borders and not so much so that one company can actually drive another out of the market place. Serioulsy what would be your excuse if Chevy came up with something that absolutely obliterated Ford and they all lost their jobs. Hey it's competition within our borders right?


Oh, for a dude who is having to twist and turn at every angle like a greased pig stuck in a corner you sure are one to point the obtuse figner at someone else. And yes, by introducing toyota into OUR markets, given the totally one sided trade with japan, OUR AMERICAN companies have been unable to be competitive while maintaining the AMERICAN SOL. And, LOW AND FUCKING BEHOLD, what do we see is the product? Thousands of cut jobs for auto workers who, according to you, should be happy as a fucking wal mart checkout associate. Yes, competition is ok as long as our IMPORTS do not undermine our DOMESTIC COMPETITIVE MARKET. What, did you not live through the fucking 80s or something? You DO realize that THIS has been an issue for 20 fucking years, right? Indeed, if Chevy tried to obliterate Ford then FORD would have to compete without the threat of simply closing it's doors given the JAPANESE AUTO factor.

WHAT IS HAPPENING TO CHRYSLER, motherfucker? THAT Domestic car company is caught between having to compete with foreign autos while having to REDUCE the SOL of it's employees just to keep up with global competition that, SURPRISE FUCKING SURPRISE, make cheaper cars based on cheaper labor. Please, call another motherfucker OBTUSE again.



Are you this stupid? You must be since you aren't able to answer a simple question. The only thing I can surmise your theory is, is that by some people now haveing jobs that they didn't they will somehow have enough purchasing power, that will allow other businesses to expand, hire more people, give raises, etc.? Are you really that naive?



Oh WOW. what a comeback! I guess you didn't want to face the fACT that local CHAMBERS of COMMERCE ALWAYS try to keep money LOCAL for a fucking reason. Gosh, bern! WAY TO offer a rebuttal!

Having jobs that they DIDNT WANT? what? As opposed to being fucking unemployed or working for fucking SLAVE WAGES comparable with the cost of labor in motherfucking INDIA? And yes, look at the purchasing power of a Union AUTO worker compared to your retarded fucking Wal Mart service jobs. YOU tell me who you think can buy a fucking house and raise a family while actually being a boon to the fucking economy. I mean, cause we NEVER see AUTO production as a highly envied fucking JOB! WHO THE FUCK EVER GIVES RAISES WHEN, CLEARLY, MONEY TRAVELS UP THE FUCKING HILL, STUPID? Name the last motherfucker who took their TAX BREAK and gave their workers MORE money instead of another excuse for shareholder profit? Do you really think that the bullshit rhetoric is fooling anyone after we've seenwhat a rotten carrot you dangle, BERN?




Worst Crisis Since '30s, With No End Yet in Sight

The consequences for companies and chief executives who tarry -- hoping for better times in which to raise capital, sell assets or acknowledge losses -- are now clear and brutal, as falling share prices and fearful lenders send troubled companies into ever-deeper holes. This weekend, such a realization led John Thain to sell the century-old Merrill Lynch & Co. to Bank of America Corp. Each episode seems to bring government intervention that is more extensive and expensive than the previous one, and carries greater risk of unintended consequences.

Worst Crisis Since '30s, With No End Yet in Sight - WSJ.com

 

[Shogun]

Usually I tell people to look at the big picture. Well start looking at the small picture. The very same principles that apply to the global market, also would apply if our economy was confined within U.S. borders. If market conditions are better in Seattle than in New York then the business could very well move and people in New York could very well lose their jobs? What's going to be your excuse then? Similar to how the overseas markets have competitive advantages in labor, AMERICAN companies like your Wal-Mart's and your Home Depot's have competitive advantages over the Mom and Pop's. I suppose your plan would be to enact interstate tariffs then?


yea.. dead mom and pops SURE ARE the small picture, dude.. reduced SOL in the US for the sake of your 2% pocket book sure IS the smaller picture. Welcome to the reason why you are getting Das Boot in your ass. WE are not obligated to use OUR consumer market as the sacrificial lamb of YOUR economic opinion. Wading through a generation of squalor just so YOU can feel correct just isn't on the menu these days. Look out for the mentions of the New Deal in the upcoming months.

 

[Bern80]

no, it doesn't bother me at all that the writer of an article I used to BITCHSLAP you assertion that japan wasn't a closed market actually agrees with your failure of an economic theory. THATS what having balls enough to take you porky capitalists bastards on looks like. What is distinctly VAGINAL here is how you are trying to avoid the FACT of this evidence relating to Japan's markets by deflecting to some like minded author of an editorial. Trust me, dude. The irony of your post is not lost on me.

The irony is that you don't see how stupid it is to point to Japan as this beacon of how well isolationism works. And in truth your article doesn't say they are isolationist, it says they are moving that way. And it certainly isn't isolationism to the extent that you want to see in the U.S. It is further ironic that if every country did what YOU suggest and what you say Japan is doing now, Japan would have a problem on their hands.

Oh, for a dude who is having to twist and turn at every angle like a greased pig stuck in a corner you sure are one to point the obtuse figner at someone else. And yes, by introducing toyota into OUR markets, given the totally one sided trade with japan, OUR AMERICAN companies have been unable to be competitive while maintaining the AMERICAN SOL. And, LOW AND FUCKING BEHOLD, what do we see is the product? Thousands of cut jobs for auto workers who, according to you, should be happy as a fucking wal mart checkout associate.

Have you every read any automobile ratings? It isn't just cheap labor, in a lot of cases they make a better product. Why might they be able to produce a better product? Gee might it be because they have less overhead then we do and can invest in improvements? How exactley is your system going to allow companies to re-invest in themselves when you're plan reduces the amount of money they will have to work with?

Yes, competition is ok as long as our IMPORTS do not undermine our DOMESTIC COMPETITIVE MARKET. What, did you not live through the fucking 80s or something? You DO realize that THIS has been an issue for 20 fucking years, right? Indeed, if Chevy tried to obliterate Ford then FORD would have to compete without the threat of simply closing it's doors given the JAPANESE AUTO factor.

WHAT IS HAPPENING TO CHRYSLER, motherfucker? THAT Domestic car company is caught between having to compete with foreign autos while having to REDUCE the SOL of it's employees just to keep up with global competition that, SURPRISE FUCKING SURPRISE, make cheaper cars based on cheaper labor. Please, call another motherfucker OBTUSE again.

People don't purchase based on price alone. If that were the case everyone would be driving Ford Echos. there are a lot of factors that could be contributing to Chrysler's problems. Maybe they have a product nobody wants, not because it's expensive, but because it's inferior or as is the case a lot of times people just don't like them, honeslty would a PT cruiser be your vehicle of choice?

Oh WOW. what a comeback! I guess you didn't want to face the fACT that local CHAMBERS of COMMERCE ALWAYS try to keep money LOCAL for a fucking reason. Gosh, bern! WAY TO offer a rebuttal!

Having jobs that they DIDNT WANT? what? As opposed to being fucking unemployed or working for fucking SLAVE WAGES comparable with the cost of labor in motherfucking INDIA? And yes, look at the purchasing power of a Union AUTO worker compared to your retarded fucking Wal Mart service jobs. YOU tell me who you think can buy a fucking house and raise a family while actually being a boon to the fucking economy. I mean, cause we NEVER see AUTO production as a highly envied fucking JOB! WHO THE FUCK EVER GIVES RAISES WHEN, CLEARLY, MONEY TRAVELS UP THE FUCKING HILL, STUPID? Name the last motherfucker who took their TAX BREAK and gave their workers MORE money instead of another excuse for shareholder profit? Do you really think that the bullshit rhetoric is fooling anyone after we've seenwhat a rotten carrot you dangle, BERN?

Never said jobs they didn't WANT. Go back and read. First you have to except that the number of unemployed is pretty minimal (we can talk about the plight of people WITH jobs hurt by the economy later). I can give you a good concrete example. The town I grew up in has a paper mill. The town has a population of about 8,000. The immediate area has a population of maybe 40,000. About maybe 15 years ago the plant laid off about 300 employees. Let's say we were going through the same situation then as we are now in economic terms. Times are tough, pay check to pay check for the people that do still have jobs, etc. Let's say somehow the 300 all got their jobs back. Is it seriously your contention that the money they spend in the community is going to bolster some major economic turnaround? You honeslty believe enough money is going to be infused into the local economy that local businesses would grow to the point that they can give raises and/or hire even more people.

Yes you will help some people get their jobs back. But will it have any significant impact on anybody else? The amount of money that needs to be injected into an economy to accomplish what you think would happen would take an awful lot of people at the local level to make happen what you think is gonna happen. At the end of the day it is a huge overkill to accomplish really very little.

 

[Shogun]

The irony is that you don't see how stupid it is to point to Japan as this beacon of how well isolationism works. And in truth your article doesn't say they are isolationist, it says they are moving that way. And it certainly isn't isolationism to the extent that you want to see in the U.S. It is further ironic that if every country did what YOU suggest and what you say Japan is doing now, Japan would have a problem on their hands.

jesus fucking christ bern do I have to go back and quote the goddamn article? for real. Just fucking say so and I'll pull out the DIRECT FUCKING QUOTES. Your pattern of trying to bend facts around your bullshit because you are having your ass handed to you is getting old. ESPECIALLY when we are talking about sources that anyone can look at.

and, again, forgive me for not really giving the first flying fuck about your predictions.


Have you every read any automobile ratings? It isn't just cheap labor, in a lot of cases they make a better product. Why might they be able to produce a better product? Gee might it be because they have less overhead then we do and can invest in improvements? How exactley is your system going to allow companies to re-invest in themselves when you're plan reduces the amount of money they will have to work with?

yea dude. a fexican fucking peasant sure can make a better product than an American. Ok. sure. what the fuck ever. LESS OVERHEAD doesn't cause the worker to be MORE SKILLED, stupid. IMPROVEMENT MONEY doesn't ahve to just come out of labor funds, asshole. Go tell Ken Lay that fucking joke. Dude. just say uncle already.



People don't purchase based on price alone. If that were the case everyone would be driving Ford Echos. there are a lot of factors that could be contributing to Chrysler's problems. Maybe they have a product nobody wants, not because it's expensive, but because it's inferior or as is the case a lot of times people just don't like them, honeslty would a PT cruiser be your vehicle of choice?


OH I KNOW, dude... and what those problems COULD BE sure the fuck ISNT what is goddamn obvious as long as it chaffed your fucking rhetorical ego! nooooooo.. cant be.

and a lot of poeple have PT cruisers. But you can't predict in your little piggy magic 8 ball how they would have fared without being totally undercut by foreign autos whose pricetag reflected a cheaper SOL for cheaper labor. So, please.. spare me your hypotheticals when the FACT remains that foreighn options killed a domestic option that put AMERICANS to work. You know, just like mom & pops grocery store down the street from the location that sells mostly cheap shit from china.




Never said jobs they didn't WANT. Go back and read. First you have to except that the number of unemployed is pretty minimal (we can talk about the plight of people WITH jobs hurt by the economy later). I can give you a good concrete example. The town I grew up in has a paper mill. The town has a population of about 8,000. The immediate area has a population of maybe 40,000. About maybe 15 years ago the plant laid off about 300 employees. Let's say we were going through the same situation then as we are now in economic terms. Times are tough, pay check to pay check for the people that do still have jobs, etc. Let's say somehow the 300 all got their jobs back. Is it seriously your contention that the money they spend in the community is going to bolster some major economic turnaround? You honeslty believe enough money is going to be infused into the local economy that local businesses would grow to the point that they can give raises and/or hire even more people.

UNEMPLOYMENT doesn't reflect the lowered SOL that we've come to see as the only fruit of your global rhetoric. What you refuse to face is that your example, MULTIPLIED EXPONENTIALLY BY EVERY SMALL RURAL TOWN WITH A GODDAMN FACTORY, yes is what is necessary for a major economic turnaround. More people spending more money does more than fewer people spending more money outside the US. yes, When America works then America can support a stable middle class. We saw it in the 50s and there is no reason to believe that it is more viable than your Vicente Fox rhetoric.

give raises and hire people? again, are you fucking retarded or just stupid? You and I both know goddamn well that companies don't make any effort to inflate their cost of labor REGARDLESS of what dangled carrot you think will sound convincing. RAISE WAGES?

yea.. like Wal mart does, right asshole? The largest retain employer in the world who takes in the lionshare of consumer oney in America SURE THE FUCK IS DOLING OUT THE FUCKING RAISES ARENT THEY?

This is why you fail, bern.


Yes you will help some people get their jobs back. But will it have any significant impact on anybody else? The amount of money that needs to be injected into an economy to accomplish what you think would happen would take an awful lot of people at the local level to make happen what you think is gonna happen. At the end of the day it is a huge overkill to accomplish really very little.

Yes. It will. More money flowing means more money being spent on goods. It's as simple as that. If a town with 1k people are employed at a middle class SOL they will buy MORE cars than the same town who is the prodict of your cheap plastic shit from wal mart rhetoric. Of course you think it's very little to invest in America, bern... you are a capitalist piece of shit who only sees a US citizen as a hog farmer sees a walking pork butt. Regardless of your opinion, however, America is not trying to sacrifice itself so you and Vicente Fox can chum it up over some Nafta agreements and cognac.

 

[Bern80]

Usually I tell people to look at the big picture. Well start looking at the small picture. The very same principles that apply to the global market, also would apply if our economy was confined within U.S. borders. If market conditions are better in Seattle than in New York then the business could very well move and people in New York could very well lose their jobs? What's going to be your excuse then? Similar to how the overseas markets have competitive advantages in labor, AMERICAN companies like your Wal-Mart's and your Home Depot's have competitive advantages over the Mom and Pop's. I suppose your plan would be to enact interstate tariffs then?


yea.. dead mom and pops SURE ARE the small picture, dude.. reduced SOL in the US for the sake of your 2% pocket book sure IS the smaller picture. Welcome to the reason why you are getting Das Boot in your ass. WE are not obligated to use OUR consumer market as the sacrificial lamb of YOUR economic opinion. Wading through a generation of squalor just so YOU can feel correct just isn't on the menu these days. Look out for the mentions of the New Deal in the upcoming months.

Dude, attempt to have a serious, non-cliche, rhetoric ridden conversations for fucking once. How do you not see that the very same things that happen on a global level in the economy also happen at a national, state, and local level? Whether it's mom and pop or Wal-Mart they both sell stuff made in Japan. Wal-Mart has an advantage because they elimated the middle man buy buying direct from the manufacturer instead of haveing to buy from a distributor who buys from the manufacturer. Businesses are buyers as well you know, quality being the same, who do you suppose they're going to buy from? Of course you will fault them for that too, but again the alternative is less money to run the business.

 

[Shogun]

Dude, attempt to have a serious, non-cliche, rhetoric ridden conversations for fucking once. How do you not see that the very same things that happen on a global level in the economy also happen at a national, state, and local level? Whether it's mom and pop or Wal-Mart they both sell stuff made in Japan. Wal-Mart has an advantage because they elimated the middle man buy buying direct from the manufacturer instead of haveing to buy from a distributor who buys from the manufacturer. Businesses are buyers as well you know, quality being the same, who do you suppose they're going to buy from? Of course you will fault them for that too, but again the alternative is less money to run the business.

and how do you NOT see that we are no more OBLIGATED to bend like a fucking willow tree in a rainstorm to global free market trends than we are to participate in global violent trends? If you don't want to accept the indicator that IS wal mart in relation to mom and pop stores then fine. believe what you want. If you don't want to accept that unequal importing and undermining our autos with foreign cheap labor, SHCKER, means that WE will suffer economically so be it. I don't care what you think, bern. If you want to believe that every cog in your fucking capitalist wheel is interchangeable from farmer to java programmer then good for you. go ahead and make excuses while your system fails us. Use your "corrective" jargon instead of what everyone else can see it as. Pretend that only you have any fucking ability to comprehend and interpret economics all you want. I really don't care.

TRYING to insist that wal mart's dominance is the product of cutting a middle man INSTEAD OF IMPORTED CHEAP SHIT FROM CHINA is pretty much the kind of reason why the cake that you think everyone should be content with is coming back to remove your grip on our national economic policy. I've shown you videos of greenspan taking a beating from the early 90s on the exact same shit and I get the feeling that I could show you a yellow sun and you'd still insist that it's color is merely a fluxuation of the free market system.


believe what you want, bern. Even stupid people have the right to keep bumping their heads against the wall.

 

[editec]

Free trade will be working right when our balance of trade is actually a BALANCE of trade, and not before.

Until then, the whole idea that free trade is FREE, and therefore good for Americans is nothing but economic sophistry.

Free trade works well for international capitalists and screws workers and local businesses and industries in industrialized nations with high costs of living, simple as that.

The DEMS AND THE REPS were equal partners in the development of that idiotic policy, by the way, so my complaint about it is no partisan slam.

 

[Bern80]

yea dude. a fexican fucking peasant sure can make a better product than an American. Ok. sure. what the fuck ever. LESS OVERHEAD doesn't cause the worker to be MORE SKILLED, stupid. IMPROVEMENT MONEY doesn't ahve to just come out of labor funds, asshole. Go tell Ken Lay that fucking joke. Dude. just say uncle already.

So we buy only based on the cost of things? I was thinking more like the Japanese desigining toyotas. Improvement money has to come somehow from somewhere. Okay we won't cut labor costs. What other measures are there to get more money infused into the company? You can save some here in there by improving efficiencies. They would also have to sell more product. There in lies your catch 22, how to sell more product and thus generate more revenue. In a nutshell you have to offer a combination of value and cost. You can keep the price the same and point out the value in the various aspects of the product or you can cut the price or you can do a combination of both. Well you can't cut the cost of the product and expect to increase revenues. So you have to add value to it of some type. Some new innovation or technology or something that people actually want. Accept investing in those things requires capital, increased capital. How again under system are they going to accomplish that?

UNEMPLOYMENT doesn't reflect the lowered SOL that we've come to see as the only fruit of your global rhetoric. What you refuse to face is that your example, MULTIPLIED EXPONENTIALLY BY EVERY SMALL RURAL TOWN WITH A GODDAMN FACTORY, yes is what is necessary for a major economic turnaround. More people spending more money does more than fewer people spending more money outside the US. yes, When America works then America can support a stable middle class. We saw it in the 50s and there is no reason to believe that it is more viable than your Vicente Fox rhetoric.

give raises and hire people? again, are you fucking retarded or just stupid? You and I both know goddamn well that companies don't make any effort to inflate their cost of labor REGARDLESS of what dangled carrot you think will sound convincing. RAISE WAGES?

Do ya not see you how you're contradicting yourself here? For standard of living to change people need more money in their wallets. We've established that the people who got their jobs back will have more money in their wallets, but you just said companies don't give raise to the people with jobs that are still feeling the strain of the times.. So i will ask again. How is everybody else going to get more money in their wallets?

Yes. It will. More money flowing means more money being spent on goods. It's as simple as that. If a town with 1k people are employed at a middle class SOL they will buy MORE cars than the same town who is the prodict of your cheap plastic shit from wal mart rhetoric. Of course you think it's very little to invest in America, bern... you are a capitalist piece of shit who only sees a US citizen as a hog farmer sees a walking pork butt. Regardless of your opinion, however, America is not trying to sacrifice itself so you and Vicente Fox can chum it up over some Nafta agreements and cognac.

But the only people adding money into the system are the people who were without jobs before. For everybody else to spend more money on goods they also need to have more money. Forget the fucking unemployed now re-employed for second. How are the people who still have jobs but are haveing this difficulty making ends meet going to get more money in their wallets by the mere act of employing the jobless?

 

[editec]

How are the people who still have jobs but are haveing this difficulty making ends meet going to get more money in their wallets by the mere act of employing the jobless?

A lot of them.

When jobless peope find work they spend more money locally.