EPA poised to formally repeal Clean Power Plan in major blow to Obama’s climate legacy

[polarbear]

A

None of you want to accept the Clean Power Plan for what it really was---an attempt to grind the U.S. economy to a crawl to allow the rest of the world to catch up. Obama's job was to get in power and put on the brakes. America last.

Cry in your pinko appletinis.

You fucking dumb asshole, both wind and solar are now produce electricity cheaper than any fossil fuel or nuclear. They are also cheaper to install. Once installed, they require no pipelines, rail lines, or mines to support them. And grid scale batteries are making them power 24/7.

The lead, acids, rare earth materials, petroleum for the plastics, copper for the cables and wiring, all the transistors, diodes and other electrical components, the transport of the materials to the site, the actual construction and manufacturing of the solar panels turbines etc. . .

What is the fucking carbon footprint for all of that?

Let's add it all up.

Shall we?

Absolutely!

How much CO2 does one solar panel create?

How much CO2 does one solar panel create?
Yes, it's true that making solar panels creates carbon dioxide, but over the life of a solar installation it produces on average of 30x less CO2 than coal power.
KARL BURKART
July 17, 2010, 5:32 p.m.
223

2

Photo: EnviroThink
Whenever I sing the praises of solar PV as a means to hugely reduce U.S. carbon emissions while strengthening the security of the grid, I get people complaining that I'm not disclosing the carbon impacts of solar panel production.

So let's get this straight.. solar panels are at least 20x better on the climate than coal, kWh for kWh. I say at least because the most often cited report is by Danish utility Vattenfall from 1999. It looks at only 3 countries -- Japan, Sweden and Finland -- all of which are fairly dark and dreary, and it does not account for recent advances in PV production (new solar panels are significantly more efficient).


Based on that study, solar PV works out to about 50g of CO2 per kWh compared to coal's 975g of CO2 per kWh, or about 20x "cleaner."

Coal power plants in the U.S. are considerably less regulated (and therefore less efficient) than their European counterparts, making them more carbon-intensive. And the U.S. has much greater solar access than Japan or Sweden, making solar PV less carbon-intensive.

Not that you would ever look this up for yourself, or even bother to read the rest of the link. You will work hard to preserve your willful ignorance.

Aside from "saving the planet" that setup you posted doesn't do much else. These 8 panels will generate on average ~ 1 dollar`s worth of power per day. And at what cost? They won`t say, none of them...they only bait you with "how much" you are "saving"...which in turn factors in all the money the tax payers have to pitch in for subsidies.
18 panels of the same type produce in the real world (as opposed to advertisement brochures) only 20 Kw hours per day....maximum on clear sky days

So unless you don`t use any power at night you better be stingy with the consumption else there is nothing available to charge the batteries.
The whole scheme reminds me of "Used cars" when "Rudy Russo sells a Centurion

5 kw system for $7500, enough for the house and an EV. ADD a Powerwall 2, and you have a complete system.

Grid tie Solar Power Systems for your home - Grid-tie Home Solar Panel Systems

Laughable if it were not so appalling how these charlatans mislead the suckers they target.
For 7500 $ all you will get is about 5 KwHrs of power on a normal day...which costs not even 50 cents in most places. At that rate it would take about 40 years to pay for itself and during that time you better not plan to charge an EV with the iddy-bit of "power" you get for $ 7500 that are supposed to supply the house.
No wonder they keep pushing a grid-tie. It`s not that you would have any "excess power" to spare to feed into the grid...it`s because they don`t want the idiots who fell for it noticing that Mickey-Mouse system to "beep out" when you plug in your toaster or fry something on the stove and the grid makes up for what the power inverter can`t get from the solar panels.
It wont even be able to compete with a donkey wheel

 

[Old Rocks]

A

You fucking dumb asshole, both wind and solar are now produce electricity cheaper than any fossil fuel or nuclear. They are also cheaper to install. Once installed, they require no pipelines, rail lines, or mines to support them. And grid scale batteries are making them power 24/7.

The lead, acids, rare earth materials, petroleum for the plastics, copper for the cables and wiring, all the transistors, diodes and other electrical components, the transport of the materials to the site, the actual construction and manufacturing of the solar panels turbines etc. . .

What is the fucking carbon footprint for all of that?

Let's add it all up.

Shall we?

Absolutely!

How much CO2 does one solar panel create?

How much CO2 does one solar panel create?
Yes, it's true that making solar panels creates carbon dioxide, but over the life of a solar installation it produces on average of 30x less CO2 than coal power.
KARL BURKART
July 17, 2010, 5:32 p.m.
223

2

Photo: EnviroThink
Whenever I sing the praises of solar PV as a means to hugely reduce U.S. carbon emissions while strengthening the security of the grid, I get people complaining that I'm not disclosing the carbon impacts of solar panel production.

So let's get this straight.. solar panels are at least 20x better on the climate than coal, kWh for kWh. I say at least because the most often cited report is by Danish utility Vattenfall from 1999. It looks at only 3 countries -- Japan, Sweden and Finland -- all of which are fairly dark and dreary, and it does not account for recent advances in PV production (new solar panels are significantly more efficient).


Based on that study, solar PV works out to about 50g of CO2 per kWh compared to coal's 975g of CO2 per kWh, or about 20x "cleaner."

Coal power plants in the U.S. are considerably less regulated (and therefore less efficient) than their European counterparts, making them more carbon-intensive. And the U.S. has much greater solar access than Japan or Sweden, making solar PV less carbon-intensive.

Not that you would ever look this up for yourself, or even bother to read the rest of the link. You will work hard to preserve your willful ignorance.

Aside from "saving the planet" that setup you posted doesn't do much else. These 8 panels will generate on average ~ 1 dollar`s worth of power per day. And at what cost? They won`t say, none of them...they only bait you with "how much" you are "saving"...which in turn factors in all the money the tax payers have to pitch in for subsidies.
18 panels of the same type produce in the real world (as opposed to advertisement brochures) only 20 Kw hours per day....maximum on clear sky days

So unless you don`t use any power at night you better be stingy with the consumption else there is nothing available to charge the batteries.
The whole scheme reminds me of "Used cars" when "Rudy Russo sells a Centurion

5 kw system for $7500, enough for the house and an EV. ADD a Powerwall 2, and you have a complete system.

Grid tie Solar Power Systems for your home - Grid-tie Home Solar Panel Systems

Laughable if it were not so appalling how these charlatans mislead the suckers they target.
For 7500 $ all you will get is about 5 KwHrs of power on a normal day...which costs not even 50 cents in most places. At that rate it would take about 40 years to pay for itself and during that time you better not plan to charge an EV with the iddy-bit of "power" you get for $ 7500 that are supposed to supply the house.
No wonder they keep pushing a grid-tie. It`s not that you would have any "excess power" to spare to feed into the grid...it`s because they don`t want the idiots who fell for it noticing that Mickey-Mouse system to "beep out" when you plug in your toaster or fry something on the stove and the grid makes up for what the power inverter can`t get from the solar panels.
It wont even be able to compete with a donkey wheel

Now that is about one dumb comment, Polar. 5 kw worth of panels. On a summer day, that would be about 30 kw/hr of juice. On a winters day, about 15 kw/hr. Add a battery, and you have a reserve of 14 kw/hr. That is a grid tie system, so you can use power off the grid when you need extra power. And your extra power turns your meter backwards.

Solar is not only here, it is here to stay, and will become increasingly popular as the prices continue to go down, and the price for storage goes down.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

A

The lead, acids, rare earth materials, petroleum for the plastics, copper for the cables and wiring, all the transistors, diodes and other electrical components, the transport of the materials to the site, the actual construction and manufacturing of the solar panels turbines etc. . .

What is the fucking carbon footprint for all of that?

Let's add it all up.

Shall we?

Absolutely!

How much CO2 does one solar panel create?

How much CO2 does one solar panel create?
Yes, it's true that making solar panels creates carbon dioxide, but over the life of a solar installation it produces on average of 30x less CO2 than coal power.
KARL BURKART
July 17, 2010, 5:32 p.m.
223

2

Photo: EnviroThink
Whenever I sing the praises of solar PV as a means to hugely reduce U.S. carbon emissions while strengthening the security of the grid, I get people complaining that I'm not disclosing the carbon impacts of solar panel production.

So let's get this straight.. solar panels are at least 20x better on the climate than coal, kWh for kWh. I say at least because the most often cited report is by Danish utility Vattenfall from 1999. It looks at only 3 countries -- Japan, Sweden and Finland -- all of which are fairly dark and dreary, and it does not account for recent advances in PV production (new solar panels are significantly more efficient).


Based on that study, solar PV works out to about 50g of CO2 per kWh compared to coal's 975g of CO2 per kWh, or about 20x "cleaner."

Coal power plants in the U.S. are considerably less regulated (and therefore less efficient) than their European counterparts, making them more carbon-intensive. And the U.S. has much greater solar access than Japan or Sweden, making solar PV less carbon-intensive.

Not that you would ever look this up for yourself, or even bother to read the rest of the link. You will work hard to preserve your willful ignorance.

Aside from "saving the planet" that setup you posted doesn't do much else. These 8 panels will generate on average ~ 1 dollar`s worth of power per day. And at what cost? They won`t say, none of them...they only bait you with "how much" you are "saving"...which in turn factors in all the money the tax payers have to pitch in for subsidies.
18 panels of the same type produce in the real world (as opposed to advertisement brochures) only 20 Kw hours per day....maximum on clear sky days

So unless you don`t use any power at night you better be stingy with the consumption else there is nothing available to charge the batteries.
The whole scheme reminds me of "Used cars" when "Rudy Russo sells a Centurion

5 kw system for $7500, enough for the house and an EV. ADD a Powerwall 2, and you have a complete system.

Grid tie Solar Power Systems for your home - Grid-tie Home Solar Panel Systems

Laughable if it were not so appalling how these charlatans mislead the suckers they target.
For 7500 $ all you will get is about 5 KwHrs of power on a normal day...which costs not even 50 cents in most places. At that rate it would take about 40 years to pay for itself and during that time you better not plan to charge an EV with the iddy-bit of "power" you get for $ 7500 that are supposed to supply the house.
No wonder they keep pushing a grid-tie. It`s not that you would have any "excess power" to spare to feed into the grid...it`s because they don`t want the idiots who fell for it noticing that Mickey-Mouse system to "beep out" when you plug in your toaster or fry something on the stove and the grid makes up for what the power inverter can`t get from the solar panels.
It wont even be able to compete with a donkey wheel

Now that is about one dumb comment, Polar. 5 kw worth of panels. On a summer day, that would be about 30 kw/hr of juice. On a winters day, about 15 kw/hr. Add a battery, and you have a reserve of 14 kw/hr. That is a grid tie system, so you can use power off the grid when you need extra power. And your extra power turns your meter backwards.

Solar is not only here, it is here to stay, and will become increasingly popular as the prices continue to go down, and the price for storage goes down.

On a summer day, that would be about 30 kw/hr of juice. On a winters day, about 15 kw/hr.

Using the U.S, average for system size at 5 kW (5000 watts), solar panel cost will range from $10,045 to $13,475 (after tax credits).

2017 Average Cost of Solar Panels in the U.S. | EnergySage

At $0.12 per kw/hr, that's about $18 a week. Doesn't seem very economical.

 

[polarbear]

A

The lead, acids, rare earth materials, petroleum for the plastics, copper for the cables and wiring, all the transistors, diodes and other electrical components, the transport of the materials to the site, the actual construction and manufacturing of the solar panels turbines etc. . .

What is the fucking carbon footprint for all of that?

Let's add it all up.

Shall we?

Absolutely!

How much CO2 does one solar panel create?

How much CO2 does one solar panel create?
Yes, it's true that making solar panels creates carbon dioxide, but over the life of a solar installation it produces on average of 30x less CO2 than coal power.
KARL BURKART
July 17, 2010, 5:32 p.m.
223

2

Photo: EnviroThink
Whenever I sing the praises of solar PV as a means to hugely reduce U.S. carbon emissions while strengthening the security of the grid, I get people complaining that I'm not disclosing the carbon impacts of solar panel production.

So let's get this straight.. solar panels are at least 20x better on the climate than coal, kWh for kWh. I say at least because the most often cited report is by Danish utility Vattenfall from 1999. It looks at only 3 countries -- Japan, Sweden and Finland -- all of which are fairly dark and dreary, and it does not account for recent advances in PV production (new solar panels are significantly more efficient).


Based on that study, solar PV works out to about 50g of CO2 per kWh compared to coal's 975g of CO2 per kWh, or about 20x "cleaner."

Coal power plants in the U.S. are considerably less regulated (and therefore less efficient) than their European counterparts, making them more carbon-intensive. And the U.S. has much greater solar access than Japan or Sweden, making solar PV less carbon-intensive.

Not that you would ever look this up for yourself, or even bother to read the rest of the link. You will work hard to preserve your willful ignorance.

Aside from "saving the planet" that setup you posted doesn't do much else. These 8 panels will generate on average ~ 1 dollar`s worth of power per day. And at what cost? They won`t say, none of them...they only bait you with "how much" you are "saving"...which in turn factors in all the money the tax payers have to pitch in for subsidies.
18 panels of the same type produce in the real world (as opposed to advertisement brochures) only 20 Kw hours per day....maximum on clear sky days

So unless you don`t use any power at night you better be stingy with the consumption else there is nothing available to charge the batteries.
The whole scheme reminds me of "Used cars" when "Rudy Russo sells a Centurion

5 kw system for $7500, enough for the house and an EV. ADD a Powerwall 2, and you have a complete system.

Grid tie Solar Power Systems for your home - Grid-tie Home Solar Panel Systems

Laughable if it were not so appalling how these charlatans mislead the suckers they target.
For 7500 $ all you will get is about 5 KwHrs of power on a normal day...which costs not even 50 cents in most places. At that rate it would take about 40 years to pay for itself and during that time you better not plan to charge an EV with the iddy-bit of "power" you get for $ 7500 that are supposed to supply the house.
No wonder they keep pushing a grid-tie. It`s not that you would have any "excess power" to spare to feed into the grid...it`s because they don`t want the idiots who fell for it noticing that Mickey-Mouse system to "beep out" when you plug in your toaster or fry something on the stove and the grid makes up for what the power inverter can`t get from the solar panels.
It wont even be able to compete with a donkey wheel

Now that is about one dumb comment, Polar. 5 kw worth of panels. On a summer day, that would be about 30 kw/hr of juice. On a winters day, about 15 kw/hr. Add a battery, and you have a reserve of 14 kw/hr. That is a grid tie system, so you can use power off the grid when you need extra power. And your extra power turns your meter backwards.

Solar is not only here, it is here to stay, and will become increasingly popular as the prices continue to go down, and the price for storage goes down.

You know who is the dummy here? It`s the one who figures that a PV panel RATED at 325 Watts will actually deliver 325 Watts while the sun is out.
An array 10 times the size of what you say can deliver 15 Kwhrs only delivers between 5 and 20 (MAXIMUM) Kwhrs per day:

But what you said is even dumber, you said:
5 kw worth of panels. On a summer day, that would be about 30 kw/hr of juice. On a winters day, about 15 kw/hr. Add a battery, and you have a reserve of 14 kw/hr.
How can 5 KW become 30 KW per hour? Even a Kindergarten kid knows there are only 60 minutes in 1 hour not the 360 minutes you need to get 30 Kwatts out of 5 Kw in 1 hour.
5 KW for 1 hour = 5 KWhours not 30 or 30KW/hr...shit you don`t even know the most basic stuff and want to argue with me about power generation!
And not to mention "add 1 battery" and you got a 14 Kw "per hour" reserve.
Do you have any idea what kind of a battery bank it would take to give you 14 Kilowatts for a whole hour?
I had a whole rack full of 100 ampere hour batteries and the inverter would beep out with a 1 KVA load in about 70 minutesor less.
This is a 13 KVA Cat Diesel generator:

But at Cat the engineers must be stupid, because you say you can do all of that with just one battery for a whole hour

 

[Old Rocks]

Fuck, I am arguing with a cretin. 5 kw of panels puts out a maximum of 5 kw/hr per hour. At my present latitude, the max for that would be about 30 kw/hr per day, summer, 15 kw/hr per day, winter. Show me where I state 30 kw/hr per hour?

[Now that is about one dumb comment, Polar. 5 kw worth of panels. On a summer day, that would be about 30 kw/hr of juice. On a winters day, about 15 kw/hr. Add a battery, and you have a reserve of 14 kw/hr. That is a grid tie system, so you can use power off the grid when you need extra power. And your extra power turns your meter backwards.

Solar is not only here, it is here to stay, and will become increasingly popular as the prices continue to go down, and the price for storage goes down.]

 

[Old Rocks]

A

Absolutely!

How much CO2 does one solar panel create?

How much CO2 does one solar panel create?
Yes, it's true that making solar panels creates carbon dioxide, but over the life of a solar installation it produces on average of 30x less CO2 than coal power.
KARL BURKART
July 17, 2010, 5:32 p.m.
223

2

Photo: EnviroThink
Whenever I sing the praises of solar PV as a means to hugely reduce U.S. carbon emissions while strengthening the security of the grid, I get people complaining that I'm not disclosing the carbon impacts of solar panel production.

So let's get this straight.. solar panels are at least 20x better on the climate than coal, kWh for kWh. I say at least because the most often cited report is by Danish utility Vattenfall from 1999. It looks at only 3 countries -- Japan, Sweden and Finland -- all of which are fairly dark and dreary, and it does not account for recent advances in PV production (new solar panels are significantly more efficient).


Based on that study, solar PV works out to about 50g of CO2 per kWh compared to coal's 975g of CO2 per kWh, or about 20x "cleaner."

Coal power plants in the U.S. are considerably less regulated (and therefore less efficient) than their European counterparts, making them more carbon-intensive. And the U.S. has much greater solar access than Japan or Sweden, making solar PV less carbon-intensive.

Not that you would ever look this up for yourself, or even bother to read the rest of the link. You will work hard to preserve your willful ignorance.

Aside from "saving the planet" that setup you posted doesn't do much else. These 8 panels will generate on average ~ 1 dollar`s worth of power per day. And at what cost? They won`t say, none of them...they only bait you with "how much" you are "saving"...which in turn factors in all the money the tax payers have to pitch in for subsidies.
18 panels of the same type produce in the real world (as opposed to advertisement brochures) only 20 Kw hours per day....maximum on clear sky days

So unless you don`t use any power at night you better be stingy with the consumption else there is nothing available to charge the batteries.
The whole scheme reminds me of "Used cars" when "Rudy Russo sells a Centurion

5 kw system for $7500, enough for the house and an EV. ADD a Powerwall 2, and you have a complete system.

Grid tie Solar Power Systems for your home - Grid-tie Home Solar Panel Systems

Laughable if it were not so appalling how these charlatans mislead the suckers they target.
For 7500 $ all you will get is about 5 KwHrs of power on a normal day...which costs not even 50 cents in most places. At that rate it would take about 40 years to pay for itself and during that time you better not plan to charge an EV with the iddy-bit of "power" you get for $ 7500 that are supposed to supply the house.
No wonder they keep pushing a grid-tie. It`s not that you would have any "excess power" to spare to feed into the grid...it`s because they don`t want the idiots who fell for it noticing that Mickey-Mouse system to "beep out" when you plug in your toaster or fry something on the stove and the grid makes up for what the power inverter can`t get from the solar panels.
It wont even be able to compete with a donkey wheel

Now that is about one dumb comment, Polar. 5 kw worth of panels. On a summer day, that would be about 30 kw/hr of juice. On a winters day, about 15 kw/hr. Add a battery, and you have a reserve of 14 kw/hr. That is a grid tie system, so you can use power off the grid when you need extra power. And your extra power turns your meter backwards.

Solar is not only here, it is here to stay, and will become increasingly popular as the prices continue to go down, and the price for storage goes down.

You know who is the dummy here? It`s the one who figures that a PV panel RATED at 325 Watts will actually deliver 325 Watts while the sun is out.
An array 10 times the size of what you say can deliver 15 Kwhrs only delivers between 5 and 20 (MAXIMUM) Kwhrs per day:

But what you said is even dumber, you said:
5 kw worth of panels. On a summer day, that would be about 30 kw/hr of juice. On a winters day, about 15 kw/hr. Add a battery, and you have a reserve of 14 kw/hr.
How can 5 KW become 30 KW per hour? Even a Kindergarten kid knows there are only 60 minutes in 1 hour not the 360 minutes you need to get 30 Kwatts out of 5 Kw in 1 hour.
5 KW for 1 hour = 5 KWhours not 30 or 30KW/hr...shit you don`t even know the most basic stuff and want to argue with me about power generation!
And not to mention "add 1 battery" and you got a 14 Kw "per hour" reserve.
Do you have any idea what kind of a battery bank it would take to give you 14 Kilowatts for a whole hour?
I had a whole rack full of 100 ampere hour batteries and the inverter would beep out with a 1 KVA load in about 70 minutesor less.
This is a 13 KVA Cat Diesel generator:

But at Cat the engineers must be stupid, because you say you can do all of that with just one battery for a whole hour

Now where did I say 14 kw/hr in one hour? Crap. And the battery bank for 14 kw/hrs is right here;

But Tesla's Powerwall 2.0, which will cost $5,500, comes with the inverter included. Musk said it can store 13.5 kWh of energy and provide 5 kWh of continuous power, but will improve to 7 kWh at peak. This means that the Powerwall 2.0 has twice the energy and twice the storage as the previous 6.4 kWh Powerwall.

Tesla

 

[skookerasbil]

A

The lead, acids, rare earth materials, petroleum for the plastics, copper for the cables and wiring, all the transistors, diodes and other electrical components, the transport of the materials to the site, the actual construction and manufacturing of the solar panels turbines etc. . .

What is the fucking carbon footprint for all of that?

Let's add it all up.

Shall we?

Absolutely!

How much CO2 does one solar panel create?

How much CO2 does one solar panel create?
Yes, it's true that making solar panels creates carbon dioxide, but over the life of a solar installation it produces on average of 30x less CO2 than coal power.
KARL BURKART
July 17, 2010, 5:32 p.m.
223

2

Photo: EnviroThink
Whenever I sing the praises of solar PV as a means to hugely reduce U.S. carbon emissions while strengthening the security of the grid, I get people complaining that I'm not disclosing the carbon impacts of solar panel production.

So let's get this straight.. solar panels are at least 20x better on the climate than coal, kWh for kWh. I say at least because the most often cited report is by Danish utility Vattenfall from 1999. It looks at only 3 countries -- Japan, Sweden and Finland -- all of which are fairly dark and dreary, and it does not account for recent advances in PV production (new solar panels are significantly more efficient).


Based on that study, solar PV works out to about 50g of CO2 per kWh compared to coal's 975g of CO2 per kWh, or about 20x "cleaner."

Coal power plants in the U.S. are considerably less regulated (and therefore less efficient) than their European counterparts, making them more carbon-intensive. And the U.S. has much greater solar access than Japan or Sweden, making solar PV less carbon-intensive.

Not that you would ever look this up for yourself, or even bother to read the rest of the link. You will work hard to preserve your willful ignorance.

Aside from "saving the planet" that setup you posted doesn't do much else. These 8 panels will generate on average ~ 1 dollar`s worth of power per day. And at what cost? They won`t say, none of them...they only bait you with "how much" you are "saving"...which in turn factors in all the money the tax payers have to pitch in for subsidies.
18 panels of the same type produce in the real world (as opposed to advertisement brochures) only 20 Kw hours per day....maximum on clear sky days

So unless you don`t use any power at night you better be stingy with the consumption else there is nothing available to charge the batteries.
The whole scheme reminds me of "Used cars" when "Rudy Russo sells a Centurion

5 kw system for $7500, enough for the house and an EV. ADD a Powerwall 2, and you have a complete system.

Grid tie Solar Power Systems for your home - Grid-tie Home Solar Panel Systems

Laughable if it were not so appalling how these charlatans mislead the suckers they target.
For 7500 $ all you will get is about 5 KwHrs of power on a normal day...which costs not even 50 cents in most places. At that rate it would take about 40 years to pay for itself and during that time you better not plan to charge an EV with the iddy-bit of "power" you get for $ 7500 that are supposed to supply the house.
No wonder they keep pushing a grid-tie. It`s not that you would have any "excess power" to spare to feed into the grid...it`s because they don`t want the idiots who fell for it noticing that Mickey-Mouse system to "beep out" when you plug in your toaster or fry something on the stove and the grid makes up for what the power inverter can`t get from the solar panels.
It wont even be able to compete with a donkey wheel

Now that is about one dumb comment, Polar. 5 kw worth of panels. On a summer day, that would be about 30 kw/hr of juice. On a winters day, about 15 kw/hr. Add a battery, and you have a reserve of 14 kw/hr. That is a grid tie system, so you can use power off the grid when you need extra power. And your extra power turns your meter backwards.

Solar is not only here, it is here to stay, and will become increasingly popular as the prices continue to go down, and the price for storage goes down.

If solar is so popular and so cheap, then why is it projected by the Obama EIA in 2016 to be only providing about 5% ( maximum btw ) of our electricity 35 years from now??

5%

http://naturalgasnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/eia-aeo2014-forecast-512x384.png

 

[skookerasbil]

Fakery Alert

Progressives w0w us with all this total fakery on the cost of solar and THEN fail to tell you that your electricity rates will double ( just as they did in Germany s0ns !!!)



The reality is, the warmer contingent has the political IQ of a bunch of small soap dishes. They think the cause is noble...........because they are suckers...........


"Knowing the importance of the “incentives,” the solar industry has now become a major campaign donor, providing political pressure and money to candidates, who will bring on more mandates, subsidies, and tax credits. Those candidates are generally Democrats, as one of the key differences between the two parties is that Democrats tend to support government involvement."

"The answers can be found in SPUS, which addresses the policy, regulatory, and consumer protection issues that have manifested themselves through the rapid rise of solar power and deals with many more elements than covered here. It concludes: “Solar is an important part of our energy future, but there must be forethought, taking into account future costs, jobs, energy reliability, and the overall energy infrastructure already in place. This technology must come online with the needs of the taxpayer, consumer and ratepayer in mind instead of giving the solar industry priority."



Non-suckers need to read this.......the real world on solar without the fakery >> Solar power propaganda vs. the real world

 

[Old Rocks]

On Twitter, he summed it up in one chart, first spotted by Mother Jones. It compares the IEA's predictions about solar energy adoption (measured in gigawatts of capacity added annually) and historic data about solar energy adoption since 2002:

View image on Twitter

Follow
AukeHoekstra @AukeHoekstra

I made a graph showing the historic track record of the IEA in predicting solar: reality steeply increasing but IEA is having none of it.


Every year, the organization assumes that solar's growth rate will be linear, rather than increasing exponentially as it largely has for over a decade.

As the Guardian reported in March, the amount of new solar power installed worldwide in 2016 increased by about 50%, reaching 76 gigawatts. China and US spearheaded the surge in solar — both countries nearly doubled the amount of PV panels they added in 2015.

One chart shows how solar energy growth is skyrocketing compared to predictions

Everyone's projections of the amount of solar that is being install were way too conservative, too conservative to the point that the actual installed was over 4000% of what the agency predicted only two years prior. Solar and wind are kicking ass, and coal is dying a well deserved death. Natural gas will follow suit in my lifetime.

 

[polarbear]

A

Aside from "saving the planet" that setup you posted doesn't do much else. These 8 panels will generate on average ~ 1 dollar`s worth of power per day. And at what cost? They won`t say, none of them...they only bait you with "how much" you are "saving"...which in turn factors in all the money the tax payers have to pitch in for subsidies.
18 panels of the same type produce in the real world (as opposed to advertisement brochures) only 20 Kw hours per day....maximum on clear sky days

So unless you don`t use any power at night you better be stingy with the consumption else there is nothing available to charge the batteries.
The whole scheme reminds me of "Used cars" when "Rudy Russo sells a Centurion

5 kw system for $7500, enough for the house and an EV. ADD a Powerwall 2, and you have a complete system.

Grid tie Solar Power Systems for your home - Grid-tie Home Solar Panel Systems

Laughable if it were not so appalling how these charlatans mislead the suckers they target.
For 7500 $ all you will get is about 5 KwHrs of power on a normal day...which costs not even 50 cents in most places. At that rate it would take about 40 years to pay for itself and during that time you better not plan to charge an EV with the iddy-bit of "power" you get for $ 7500 that are supposed to supply the house.
No wonder they keep pushing a grid-tie. It`s not that you would have any "excess power" to spare to feed into the grid...it`s because they don`t want the idiots who fell for it noticing that Mickey-Mouse system to "beep out" when you plug in your toaster or fry something on the stove and the grid makes up for what the power inverter can`t get from the solar panels.
It wont even be able to compete with a donkey wheel

Now that is about one dumb comment, Polar. 5 kw worth of panels. On a summer day, that would be about 30 kw/hr of juice. On a winters day, about 15 kw/hr. Add a battery, and you have a reserve of 14 kw/hr. That is a grid tie system, so you can use power off the grid when you need extra power. And your extra power turns your meter backwards.

Solar is not only here, it is here to stay, and will become increasingly popular as the prices continue to go down, and the price for storage goes down.

You know who is the dummy here? It`s the one who figures that a PV panel RATED at 325 Watts will actually deliver 325 Watts while the sun is out.
An array 10 times the size of what you say can deliver 15 Kwhrs only delivers between 5 and 20 (MAXIMUM) Kwhrs per day:

But what you said is even dumber, you said:
5 kw worth of panels. On a summer day, that would be about 30 kw/hr of juice. On a winters day, about 15 kw/hr. Add a battery, and you have a reserve of 14 kw/hr.
How can 5 KW become 30 KW per hour? Even a Kindergarten kid knows there are only 60 minutes in 1 hour not the 360 minutes you need to get 30 Kwatts out of 5 Kw in 1 hour.
5 KW for 1 hour = 5 KWhours not 30 or 30KW/hr...shit you don`t even know the most basic stuff and want to argue with me about power generation!
And not to mention "add 1 battery" and you got a 14 Kw "per hour" reserve.
Do you have any idea what kind of a battery bank it would take to give you 14 Kilowatts for a whole hour?
I had a whole rack full of 100 ampere hour batteries and the inverter would beep out with a 1 KVA load in about 70 minutesor less.
This is a 13 KVA Cat Diesel generator:

But at Cat the engineers must be stupid, because you say you can do all of that with just one battery for a whole hour

Now where did I say 14 kw/hr in one hour? Crap. And the battery bank for 14 kw/hrs is right here;

But Tesla's Powerwall 2.0, which will cost $5,500, comes with the inverter included. Musk said it can store 13.5 kWh of energy and provide 5 kWh of continuous power, but will improve to 7 kWh at peak. This means that the Powerwall 2.0 has twice the energy and twice the storage as the previous 6.4 kWh Powerwall.

Tesla

You are starting to sound like H.Clinton "where did I say 14 kw/h per hour?
You said it again..: 14 kw / h and still have no idea what kind of nonsense that is.
I`ll run it by you like it would have to be done with a child:
If you earn $ 20 per hour it is expressed as $ 20 / hr
If a car does 100 km per hour it is expressed as 100 km / hr
So wtf is 14 kw / h ?
You just don`t get it do you ?
1 KW = 1000 x Volts x Amperes = POWER
Power x Time = Work, as in 1 watt x 1 second = 1 Joule
NOT Watts / time which is what you keep on saying :
And the battery bank for 14 kw/hrs is right here;
Now that is about one dumb comment, Polar. 5 kw worth of panels. On a summer day, that would be about 30 kw/hr of juice. On a winters day, about 15 kw/hr. Add a battery, and you have a reserve of 14 kw/hr.
Like I told you earlier if you have no idea what a watt, a KW or a KW hour is you sure as shit don`t have a clue what it takes to produce 30 KWhrs worth of electrical energy...
Explain what 30 kw / hr "juice" is. Is "juice" or Kilowatts per hour some new energy unit that only "people who believe in science" like AGW know of and which is being "denied" by the Oil Lobby ?
And that 14 Kilowatt per hour battery you keep talking about, I would like to see what it looks like.

It`s totally obvious that in your "science" a Kilowatt is not a power unit but somehow morphed into a work unit after they legalized Marijuana where you live.

 

[polarbear]

View attachment 156027

A
5 kw system for $7500, enough for the house and an EV. ADD a Powerwall 2, and you have a complete system.

Grid tie Solar Power Systems for your home - Grid-tie Home Solar Panel Systems

Laughable if it were not so appalling how these charlatans mislead the suckers they target.
For 7500 $ all you will get is about 5 KwHrs of power on a normal day...which costs not even 50 cents in most places. At that rate it would take about 40 years to pay for itself and during that time you better not plan to charge an EV with the iddy-bit of "power" you get for $ 7500 that are supposed to supply the house.
No wonder they keep pushing a grid-tie. It`s not that you would have any "excess power" to spare to feed into the grid...it`s because they don`t want the idiots who fell for it noticing that Mickey-Mouse system to "beep out" when you plug in your toaster or fry something on the stove and the grid makes up for what the power inverter can`t get from the solar panels.
It wont even be able to compete with a donkey wheel

Now that is about one dumb comment, Polar. 5 kw worth of panels. On a summer day, that would be about 30 kw/hr of juice. On a winters day, about 15 kw/hr. Add a battery, and you have a reserve of 14 kw/hr. That is a grid tie system, so you can use power off the grid when you need extra power. And your extra power turns your meter backwards.

Solar is not only here, it is here to stay, and will become increasingly popular as the prices continue to go down, and the price for storage goes down.

You know who is the dummy here? It`s the one who figures that a PV panel RATED at 325 Watts will actually deliver 325 Watts while the sun is out.
An array 10 times the size of what you say can deliver 15 Kwhrs only delivers between 5 and 20 (MAXIMUM) Kwhrs per day:

But what you said is even dumber, you said:
5 kw worth of panels. On a summer day, that would be about 30 kw/hr of juice. On a winters day, about 15 kw/hr. Add a battery, and you have a reserve of 14 kw/hr.
How can 5 KW become 30 KW per hour? Even a Kindergarten kid knows there are only 60 minutes in 1 hour not the 360 minutes you need to get 30 Kwatts out of 5 Kw in 1 hour.
5 KW for 1 hour = 5 KWhours not 30 or 30KW/hr...shit you don`t even know the most basic stuff and want to argue with me about power generation!
And not to mention "add 1 battery" and you got a 14 Kw "per hour" reserve.
Do you have any idea what kind of a battery bank it would take to give you 14 Kilowatts for a whole hour?
I had a whole rack full of 100 ampere hour batteries and the inverter would beep out with a 1 KVA load in about 70 minutesor less.
This is a 13 KVA Cat Diesel generator:

But at Cat the engineers must be stupid, because you say you can do all of that with just one battery for a whole hour

Now where did I say 14 kw/hr in one hour? Crap. And the battery bank for 14 kw/hrs is right here;

But Tesla's Powerwall 2.0, which will cost $5,500, comes with the inverter included. Musk said it can store 13.5 kWh of energy and provide 5 kWh of continuous power, but will improve to 7 kWh at peak. This means that the Powerwall 2.0 has twice the energy and twice the storage as the previous 6.4 kWh Powerwall.

Tesla

You are starting to sound like H.Clinton "where did I say 14 kw/h per hour?
You said it again..: 14 kw / h and still have no idea what kind of nonsense that is.
I`ll run it by you like it would have to be done with a child:
If you earn $ 20 per hour it is expressed as $ 20 / hr
If a car does 100 km per hour it is expressed as 100 km / hr
So wtf is 14 kw / h ?
You just don`t get it do you ?
1 KW = 1000 x Volts x Amperes = POWER
Power x Time = Work, as in 1 watt x 1 second = 1 Joule
NOT Watts / time which is what you keep on saying :
And the battery bank for 14 kw/hrs is right here;
Now that is about one dumb comment, Polar. 5 kw worth of panels. On a summer day, that would be about 30 kw/hr of juice. On a winters day, about 15 kw/hr. Add a battery, and you have a reserve of 14 kw/hr.
Like I told you earlier if you have no idea what a watt, a KW or a KW hour is you sure as shit don`t have a clue what it takes to produce 30 KWhrs worth of electrical energy...
Explain what 30 kw / hr "juice" is. Is "juice" or Kilowatts per hour some new energy unit that only "people who believe in science" like AGW know of and which is being "denied" by the Oil Lobby ?
And that 14 Kilowatt per hour battery you keep talking about, I would like to see what it looks like.

It`s totally obvious that in your "science" a Kilowatt is not a power unit but somehow morphed into a work unit after they legalized Marijuana where you live.

Fuck, I am arguing with a cretin. 5 kw of panels puts out a maximum of 5 kw/hr per hour. At my present latitude, the max for that would be about 30 kw/hr per day, summer, 15 kw/hr per day, winter. Show me where I state 30 kw/hr per hour?

[Now that is about one dumb comment, Polar. 5 kw worth of panels. On a summer day, that would be about 30 kw/hr of juice. On a winters day, about 15 kw/hr. Add a battery, and you have a reserve of 14 kw/hr. That is a grid tie system, so you can use power off the grid when you need extra power. And your extra power turns your meter backwards.

Solar is not only here, it is here to stay, and will become increasingly popular as the prices continue to go down, and the price for storage goes down.]

This is how solar panels REALLY work:

The only thing suckers like you see is the "$avings" that`s being dangled to fool you into believing that a system that takes ~ 40 years to pay for itself is a "saving" when in reality you only "save" less than a buck per day on your hydro bill in the most expensive locations.

 

[Billy_Bob]

A

Absolutely!

How much CO2 does one solar panel create?

How much CO2 does one solar panel create?
Yes, it's true that making solar panels creates carbon dioxide, but over the life of a solar installation it produces on average of 30x less CO2 than coal power.
KARL BURKART
July 17, 2010, 5:32 p.m.
223

2

Photo: EnviroThink
Whenever I sing the praises of solar PV as a means to hugely reduce U.S. carbon emissions while strengthening the security of the grid, I get people complaining that I'm not disclosing the carbon impacts of solar panel production.

So let's get this straight.. solar panels are at least 20x better on the climate than coal, kWh for kWh. I say at least because the most often cited report is by Danish utility Vattenfall from 1999. It looks at only 3 countries -- Japan, Sweden and Finland -- all of which are fairly dark and dreary, and it does not account for recent advances in PV production (new solar panels are significantly more efficient).


Based on that study, solar PV works out to about 50g of CO2 per kWh compared to coal's 975g of CO2 per kWh, or about 20x "cleaner."

Coal power plants in the U.S. are considerably less regulated (and therefore less efficient) than their European counterparts, making them more carbon-intensive. And the U.S. has much greater solar access than Japan or Sweden, making solar PV less carbon-intensive.

Not that you would ever look this up for yourself, or even bother to read the rest of the link. You will work hard to preserve your willful ignorance.

Aside from "saving the planet" that setup you posted doesn't do much else. These 8 panels will generate on average ~ 1 dollar`s worth of power per day. And at what cost? They won`t say, none of them...they only bait you with "how much" you are "saving"...which in turn factors in all the money the tax payers have to pitch in for subsidies.
18 panels of the same type produce in the real world (as opposed to advertisement brochures) only 20 Kw hours per day....maximum on clear sky days

So unless you don`t use any power at night you better be stingy with the consumption else there is nothing available to charge the batteries.
The whole scheme reminds me of "Used cars" when "Rudy Russo sells a Centurion

5 kw system for $7500, enough for the house and an EV. ADD a Powerwall 2, and you have a complete system.

Grid tie Solar Power Systems for your home - Grid-tie Home Solar Panel Systems

Laughable if it were not so appalling how these charlatans mislead the suckers they target.
For 7500 $ all you will get is about 5 KwHrs of power on a normal day...which costs not even 50 cents in most places. At that rate it would take about 40 years to pay for itself and during that time you better not plan to charge an EV with the iddy-bit of "power" you get for $ 7500 that are supposed to supply the house.
No wonder they keep pushing a grid-tie. It`s not that you would have any "excess power" to spare to feed into the grid...it`s because they don`t want the idiots who fell for it noticing that Mickey-Mouse system to "beep out" when you plug in your toaster or fry something on the stove and the grid makes up for what the power inverter can`t get from the solar panels.
It wont even be able to compete with a donkey wheel

Now that is about one dumb comment, Polar. 5 kw worth of panels. On a summer day, that would be about 30 kw/hr of juice. On a winters day, about 15 kw/hr. Add a battery, and you have a reserve of 14 kw/hr. That is a grid tie system, so you can use power off the grid when you need extra power. And your extra power turns your meter backwards.

Solar is not only here, it is here to stay, and will become increasingly popular as the prices continue to go down, and the price for storage goes down.

You know who is the dummy here? It`s the one who figures that a PV panel RATED at 325 Watts will actually deliver 325 Watts while the sun is out.
An array 10 times the size of what you say can deliver 15 Kwhrs only delivers between 5 and 20 (MAXIMUM) Kwhrs per day:

But what you said is even dumber, you said:
5 kw worth of panels. On a summer day, that would be about 30 kw/hr of juice. On a winters day, about 15 kw/hr. Add a battery, and you have a reserve of 14 kw/hr.
How can 5 KW become 30 KW per hour? Even a Kindergarten kid knows there are only 60 minutes in 1 hour not the 360 minutes you need to get 30 Kwatts out of 5 Kw in 1 hour.
5 KW for 1 hour = 5 KWhours not 30 or 30KW/hr...shit you don`t even know the most basic stuff and want to argue with me about power generation!
And not to mention "add 1 battery" and you got a 14 Kw "per hour" reserve.
Do you have any idea what kind of a battery bank it would take to give you 14 Kilowatts for a whole hour?
I had a whole rack full of 100 ampere hour batteries and the inverter would beep out with a 1 KVA load in about 70 minutesor less.
This is a 13 KVA Cat Diesel generator:

But at Cat the engineers must be stupid, because you say you can do all of that with just one battery for a whole hour

Give it up...

Old Fraud doesn't know how to use Ohm's law to figure out power rates, consumption rates and amperage rates.

I've tried to explain this to him and he still spews a whole lot of crap.

 

[polarbear]

A

Aside from "saving the planet" that setup you posted doesn't do much else. These 8 panels will generate on average ~ 1 dollar`s worth of power per day. And at what cost? They won`t say, none of them...they only bait you with "how much" you are "saving"...which in turn factors in all the money the tax payers have to pitch in for subsidies.
18 panels of the same type produce in the real world (as opposed to advertisement brochures) only 20 Kw hours per day....maximum on clear sky days

So unless you don`t use any power at night you better be stingy with the consumption else there is nothing available to charge the batteries.
The whole scheme reminds me of "Used cars" when "Rudy Russo sells a Centurion

5 kw system for $7500, enough for the house and an EV. ADD a Powerwall 2, and you have a complete system.

Grid tie Solar Power Systems for your home - Grid-tie Home Solar Panel Systems

Laughable if it were not so appalling how these charlatans mislead the suckers they target.
For 7500 $ all you will get is about 5 KwHrs of power on a normal day...which costs not even 50 cents in most places. At that rate it would take about 40 years to pay for itself and during that time you better not plan to charge an EV with the iddy-bit of "power" you get for $ 7500 that are supposed to supply the house.
No wonder they keep pushing a grid-tie. It`s not that you would have any "excess power" to spare to feed into the grid...it`s because they don`t want the idiots who fell for it noticing that Mickey-Mouse system to "beep out" when you plug in your toaster or fry something on the stove and the grid makes up for what the power inverter can`t get from the solar panels.
It wont even be able to compete with a donkey wheel

Now that is about one dumb comment, Polar. 5 kw worth of panels. On a summer day, that would be about 30 kw/hr of juice. On a winters day, about 15 kw/hr. Add a battery, and you have a reserve of 14 kw/hr. That is a grid tie system, so you can use power off the grid when you need extra power. And your extra power turns your meter backwards.

Solar is not only here, it is here to stay, and will become increasingly popular as the prices continue to go down, and the price for storage goes down.

You know who is the dummy here? It`s the one who figures that a PV panel RATED at 325 Watts will actually deliver 325 Watts while the sun is out.
An array 10 times the size of what you say can deliver 15 Kwhrs only delivers between 5 and 20 (MAXIMUM) Kwhrs per day:

But what you said is even dumber, you said:
5 kw worth of panels. On a summer day, that would be about 30 kw/hr of juice. On a winters day, about 15 kw/hr. Add a battery, and you have a reserve of 14 kw/hr.
How can 5 KW become 30 KW per hour? Even a Kindergarten kid knows there are only 60 minutes in 1 hour not the 360 minutes you need to get 30 Kwatts out of 5 Kw in 1 hour.
5 KW for 1 hour = 5 KWhours not 30 or 30KW/hr...shit you don`t even know the most basic stuff and want to argue with me about power generation!
And not to mention "add 1 battery" and you got a 14 Kw "per hour" reserve.
Do you have any idea what kind of a battery bank it would take to give you 14 Kilowatts for a whole hour?
I had a whole rack full of 100 ampere hour batteries and the inverter would beep out with a 1 KVA load in about 70 minutesor less.
This is a 13 KVA Cat Diesel generator:

But at Cat the engineers must be stupid, because you say you can do all of that with just one battery for a whole hour

Give it up...

Old Fraud doesn't know how to use Ohm's law to figure out power rates, consumption rates and amperage rates.

I've tried to explain this to him and he still spews a whole lot of crap.

The thing is that people like him twist it into a "win" unless you debunk their nonsense.

Like in the other thread where he figures Australia`s problems are going to be solved by adding a Tesla battery to their grid. And that`s coming from a millwright...so he says.
I am beginning to think I have been arguing physics with "Red Green"

 

[badger2]

To reveal the pathology of the EPA and crucify BillyBob's deliriumj about making things up (post #171), it will require some work, which we are not afraid of, and the reader-prisoner afraid of searching the net rather than clicking on a pre-prepared URL to feed it from the high-chair is just such pathology that will be left behind.

The first schizoid maneuver we notice is here:

1.) Environmentalists Sue EPA to Designate Ohio's Portion of Lake Erie 'Impaired'...."Ohio EPA Director Craig Butler told cleveland.com in May that the impaired waters designation is "immaterial." Environmentalists disagree. The lawsuit filed Tuesday says 'Listing waters as impaired is an important first step in addressing pollution" as it forces officials to develop a plan to restore the body of water. Without the impairment designation, Ohio is likely to continue relying on unenforceable, voluntary measures to reduce phosphorus pollution that won't be enough to fix the problem.' "

But the EPA is counting on such maneuvers, whilst NASA and Cleveland State University go fascist with their voyeurism. We note the copyright fascism and opportunism in particular as it relates to the drone photos of the problem. Yes, the delirium is that NASA, also relying on other worlds uninhabited, also relies on the "immaterialism" of apathy from the prisoners of the Great Lakes region who will tend to take what they get. Otherwise, the juridical machine can save their rumps from irresponsibility and sloth.

Yet, better a street-sweeper than a judge, because the people can end up knowing more than the judge. To reveal the trist, we quote from Fundamentals of Electric Circuits, eds. Charles K. Alexander and Matthew N.O. Sadiku, McGraw-Hill International Edition:

'About the Authors.

 

[badger2]

'Charles K. Alexander is a professor of electrical and computer engineering in the Fenn College of Engineering at Cleveland State University, Cleveland, Ohio. He is also the Director of The Center for Research in Electronics and Aerospace Technology (CREATE). From 2002 until 2006 he was Dean of the Fenn College of Engineering. From 2004 until 2007, he was Director of Ohio ICE, a research center in instrumentation, controls, electronics, and sensors (a coalition of CSU, Case, the University of Akron, and a number of Ohio industries).
....
Dr. Alexander has been a consultant to 23 companies and governmental organizations, including the Air Force and Navy and several law firms. He has received over $85 million in research and development funds for projects ranging from solar energy to software engineering. He has authored 40 publications, including a workbook and a videotape lecture series, and is coauthor of Fundamentals of Electric Circuits, Problem Solving Made Almost Easy, and the fifth edition of the Standard Handbook of Electronic Engineering, with McGraw-Hill.'

So that we can expose the fascism appropriately by linking it to Tecumseh's excerpt (forthcoming), we note that on the back cover of this book we are quoting from is the statement: "This book cannot be re-exported from the country to which it is sold by McGraw-Hill. The International Edition is not available in North America."

 

[badger2]

We are so very pleased to have made a mistake! Thus, Lee Harvey Oswald's time anywhere near the U.S. Navy at New Orleans does link to Lake Erie after all, and our post from the smuggled book made it to the EPA thread!

www. for Private Planes and NASA Drone Help Researchers Battle Lake Erie Algae Bloom

 

[badger2]

From the smuggled Fundamentals of Electric Circuits, International Edition:

'p. 103. By inspection, write the mesh-current equations for the circuit in Figure 3.29.
....
Preface. Knowledge Capturing Integrated Design Environment for Circuits (KCIDE for Circuits). This software, developed at Cleveland State University and funded by NASA, is designed to help the student work through a circuits problem in an organized manner using the six-step-problem-solving methodology in the text.'

This shows the CSU-NASA link to mesh-current, because loop-current is another name for mesh-current, and is the link to the Lake Erie algae bloom:

Mississippi River Plume / Loop Current / Florida State and Louisiana Universities Marine Consortium
Mississippi River Plume Enriches Microbial Diversity in the Northern Gulf of Mexico. - PubMed - NCBI
'....all the way out to the Deepwater Horizon wellhead....'

 

[badger2]

For post #216 (this thread), we note that the clickable website in that report indeed links to the copyright fascism of Cleveland State University funded by NASA. It was by serendipity that we came upon the smuggled International Edition from which we have quoted.

 

[badger2]

In his mid-forties, Tecumseh was then in the prime of life.....typically unostentatious ("very plain") and "stout built" (perhaps meaning strongly built), with a "noble set of features and an admirable eye," and noted that he was always accompanied by six important chiefs "who never went before him."
(Sugden, Tecumseh, p. 283)

 

[badger2]

'Intelligence always comes after. It's best when it does, and only when it does.'
(Deleuze and Guattari)

What is at stake in the Lake Erie algae bloom are important questions that are not being answered. They don't have to be, as long as the producers of reports are the only ones who have the technology to produce those reports. The report below is a clone of this technology, though it does not answer important questions such as the algal toxin sequestered on surfaces (throughout the winter [italics]). Perhaps the Toledo mayor, EPA, and NASA are waiting until the prisoners get amnesia as winter closes in? As far as is known, there are no reports that address this question about microcystin, the toxin, though microcystin accumulation mirrors the argument in this text:

Detroit News 21 Oct 2017 Column: How to Fight Lake Erie Algae Blooms
www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/2017/10/21/lake-erie-algae-blooms-adams/106892960/