Drop the "Concealed" part

[spectrumc01]

It seams to me after talking to several gun enthusiasists, and a relative who is an officer in the state police, that a change needs to be made in the concealed weapons law. I own several guns and handguns for various reasons, the least of those reasons is because I can. The constitution is more than clear on that point. Just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should do it.

It has been said that an armed public is a safe public and I would agree to a point. I would also like to make a suggestion to drop the "concealed" part. If guns are to be a deterant then they should be seen, so the criminal in question can see the weapon and perhaps not comit the crime in the first place, thus the deterant works. I feel by keeping them concealed you are trying to make the criminal think you are unarmed so you get the chance to use your weapon, thus not a deterant, and more of a consequence.

The next reason for showing everyone that you are carrying is that it lets the rest of us decide for ourselves if we want to be around you when you are carrying. You have the right to carry, and I should also have the right to decide if I want to be around you. I realize that there is training involved in getting a permit, but my expierience in the military has shown me that training or not some people should never have a weapon.

Last thought, for the people who like to push things, please don't. Every time a gun extremist does something stupid it makes the rest of us look bad. Like the guy in Detroit who took his 30.06 into the Taco Bell because he had every right to do so, then the police were called and things get out of hand. Ted Nugent good rock and roller, bad gun law spokesman. As a gun rights guy we should always think before we do or say anything about guns, and we need to start policing ourselves before the congress does it for us.

 

[Mini 14]

It seams to me after talking to several gun enthusiasists, and a relative who is an officer in the state police, that a change needs to be made in the concealed weapons law. I own several guns and handguns for various reasons, the least of those reasons is because I can. The constitution is more than clear on that point. Just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should do it.

It has been said that an armed public is a safe public and I would agree to a point. I would also like to make a suggestion to drop the "concealed" part. If guns are to be a deterant then they should be seen, so the criminal in question can see the weapon and perhaps not comit the crime in the first place, thus the deterant works. I feel by keeping them concealed you are trying to make the criminal think you are unarmed so you get the chance to use your weapon, thus not a deterant, and more of a consequence.

The next reason for showing everyone that you are carrying is that it lets the rest of us decide for ourselves if we want to be around you when you are carrying. You have the right to carry, and I should also have the right to decide if I want to be around you. I realize that there is training involved in getting a permit, but my expierience in the military has shown me that training or not some people should never have a weapon.

Last thought, for the people who like to push things, please don't. Every time a gun extremist does something stupid it makes the rest of us look bad. Like the guy in Detroit who took his 30.06 into the Taco Bell because he had every right to do so, then the police were called and things get out of hand. Ted Nugent good rock and roller, bad gun law spokesman. As a gun rights guy we should always think before we do or say anything about guns, and we need to start policing ourselves before the congress does it for us.

I agree with Vermont Carry.

For the record, I always have at least one on me, usually two (1911 on hip, 380 in pocket), but my business (gun dealer) necessitates that I and all my employees carry as openly as possible (in Alabama, you are allowed to carry open on your own property, concealed everywhere else).

If you don't carry, you simply cannot work for me. Interview is over at that point. We'll call you.

 

[Anachronism]

spectrum, there's only one problem with your main point.... CONCEALED carry protects not only the person carrying the gun but those who AREN'T carrying as well. The whole idea of concealed carry is that the bad guys don't know who does or doesn't have a gun. Big macho dude on the corner might not, and granny over there with her 12 year old granddaughter might well be packing. It keeps the bad guys guessing as to who does and doesn't have the ability to turn their day REALLY BAD, REALLY QUICK.

Relative to your comment about who you hang around with.... I make it very clear to those people I assosicate with outside of work that if they're going to hang out with me, they need to be comfortable with the fact that I carry a gun on a pretty regular basis. In fact, if they're going to be a significant part of my life they have to come down to the range and learn how to safely (not necessarily well) handle and use the gun.

 

[spectrumc01]

spectrum, there's only one problem with your main point.... CONCEALED carry protects not only the person carrying the gun but those who AREN'T carrying as well. The whole idea of concealed carry is that the bad guys don't know who does or doesn't have a gun. Big macho dude on the corner might not, and granny over there with her 12 year old granddaughter might well be packing. It keeps the bad guys guessing as to who does and doesn't have the ability to turn their day REALLY BAD, REALLY QUICK.

Relative to your comment about who you hang around with.... I make it very clear to those people I assosicate with outside of work that if they're going to hang out with me, they need to be comfortable with the fact that I carry a gun on a pretty regular basis. In fact, if they're going to be a significant part of my life they have to come down to the range and learn how to safely (not necessarily well) handle and use the gun.

"CONCEALED carry protects not only the person carrying the gun but those who AREN'T carrying as well. " That may be, but it happens after the fact that violence has already occured, is there a problem with stopping the violence (like seeing the gun) before violence starts?

When I take my family out to eat and patrons are wearing their guns for all to see I would rather not sit next to them, for a host of reasons. The most important reason being when they start shooting the person they are shooting at will return fire. Criminals, not known for their accuracy, puts me and mine in the line of fire.

 

[Momanohedhunter]

It seams to me after talking to several gun enthusiasists, and a relative who is an officer in the state police, that a change needs to be made in the concealed weapons law. I own several guns and handguns for various reasons, the least of those reasons is because I can. The constitution is more than clear on that point. Just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should do it.

It has been said that an armed public is a safe public and I would agree to a point. I would also like to make a suggestion to drop the "concealed" part. If guns are to be a deterant then they should be seen, so the criminal in question can see the weapon and perhaps not comit the crime in the first place, thus the deterant works. I feel by keeping them concealed you are trying to make the criminal think you are unarmed so you get the chance to use your weapon, thus not a deterant, and more of a consequence.

The next reason for showing everyone that you are carrying is that it lets the rest of us decide for ourselves if we want to be around you when you are carrying. You have the right to carry, and I should also have the right to decide if I want to be around you. I realize that there is training involved in getting a permit, but my expierience in the military has shown me that training or not some people should never have a weapon.

Last thought, for the people who like to push things, please don't. Every time a gun extremist does something stupid it makes the rest of us look bad. Like the guy in Detroit who took his 30.06 into the Taco Bell because he had every right to do so, then the police were called and things get out of hand. Ted Nugent good rock and roller, bad gun law spokesman. As a gun rights guy we should always think before we do or say anything about guns, and we need to start policing ourselves before the congress does it for us.

The reason they need to be concealed is to be considerate of the public around you. Some states will revoke your ccw card if you dont keep it concealed. I can also see the virtue of open carry. I got my ccw, but it was a waist of money really, As a hand gun always pokes and digs. It was just a pain in the ass. That would be another benefit of open carry, it would be allot more comfortable. I also agree about the Nuge. I find him hard to listen to when he talks.

 

[Anachronism]

"CONCEALED carry protects not only the person carrying the gun but those who AREN'T carrying as well. " That may be, but it happens after the fact that violence has already occured, is there a problem with stopping the violence (like seeing the gun) before violence starts?

Actually it happens long before the violence starts, and your posts have proven exactly why....

Imagine you're a mugger. You have 4 potential targets, all of whom you know have approximately the same amount of valuables on them. You know that 1 of them is carrying a gun and the other three aren't. In your suggested society that 1 is very easy to pick out. You have absolutely ZERO fear that you're going to pick an armed target who is capable of at least attempting to defend themselves. You are a happy criminal. In the concealed carry world, that same mugger has a much higher potential threat level. He knows that 1 of his 4 potential victims is armed, but doesn't know which one. If he can't deduce which one of the four it is, he may just decide to find an easier place to do business. Somewhere like Chicago or Madison, Wisconsin; where he knows, by law, NOBODY can be carrying a gun. Those three people NOT carrying have been protected by the one person who IS carrying simply by the presence of the gun.

When I take my family out to eat and patrons are wearing their guns for all to see I would rather not sit next to them, for a host of reasons. The most important reason being when they start shooting the person they are shooting at will return fire. Criminals, not known for their accuracy, puts me and mine in the line of fire.

I am a competitive pistol shooter. I have competed in IDPA events for more than a decade now. Trust me, I am more than well aware of the lack of gun-handling skills in this country, and the LEO's are just as bad as many of the armed citizens and criminals.

I have certain friends who will not go out to eat with me because of the way I deal with the issue you are talking about. I refuse to sit with my back to the main entrance of a restaurant. I refuse to take an inside seat in a booth or to sit with my right arm to the inside of the booth. I won't go into any restaurant, bar, etc... that doesn't let me carry my gun.

There is no way to live totally threat-free in this world. It just isn't possible. To that end, we all need to do our best to defend/protect ourselves and our families, property, etc... Outside of that there's not much we can do about it.

 

[Mini 14]

Spectrum -

Anachronism is solidifying your argument. I can't think of a better visualization, or a more resounding endorsement, than his testimony here.

No way in hell I would ever sell that loon a gun. He'd be shown the door in about 30 seconds.

 

[Anachronism]

The reason they need to be concealed is to be considerate of the public around you. Some states will revoke your ccw card if you dont keep it concealed. I can also see the virtue of open carry. I got my ccw, but it was a waist of money really, As a hand gun always pokes and digs. It was just a pain in the ass. That would be another benefit of open carry, it would be allot more comfortable. I also agree about the Nuge. I find him hard to listen to when he talks.

Sounds like you didn't do a whole lot of research, testing, and preparation before you decided on the gun, ammunition, holster, carry method, etc....

I carry all seasons and in all weather here in New England. 10 Degree winter days and 95 degree summer days. Casual, dressy, business attire, etc... without any significant issues. It's all about looking at what the situation calls for and what your best options are. Of course I had the benefit of some friends with last names like Ayoob, Hackathorn, Wilson, etc... to help me out; and the sense to read and talk to people who had been doing this for more than 30 years before I started carrying myself.

Lastly, I have no problem trading a little bit of my person comfort for ALL of my personal safety. Then again, when I went out last evening I was carrying: 1 Kubaton/pepper spray canister, 1 folding combat knife, 1 combat flashlight, 1 S&W model 442 .38 Spl revolver, & 2 speedloaders. I did all of this without significantly impacting my personal comfort yet retaining easy and speedy access to every bit of equipment. In fact the only thing that wasn't in a pocket was the revolver itself which sits in a Southern Comfort IWB holser just behind my right hip.

 

[Mini 14]

Lastly, I have no problem trading a little bit of my person comfort for ALL of my personal safety. Then again, when I went out last evening I was carrying: 1 Kubaton/pepper spray canister, 1 folding combat knife, 1 combat flashlight, 1 S&W model 442 .38 Spl revolver, & 2 speedloaders. I did all of this without significantly impacting my personal comfort yet retaining easy and speedy access to every bit of equipment. In fact the only thing that wasn't in a pocket was the revolver itself which sits in a Southern Comfort IWB holser just behind my right hip.

I rest my case, Your Honor.

 

[AllieBaba]

"CONCEALED carry protects not only the person carrying the gun but those who AREN'T carrying as well. " That may be, but it happens after the fact that violence has already occured, is there a problem with stopping the violence (like seeing the gun) before violence starts?

Actually it happens long before the violence starts, and your posts have proven exactly why....

Imagine you're a mugger. You have 4 potential targets, all of whom you know have approximately the same amount of valuables on them. You know that 1 of them is carrying a gun and the other three aren't. In your suggested society that 1 is very easy to pick out. You have absolutely ZERO fear that you're going to pick an armed target who is capable of at least attempting to defend themselves. You are a happy criminal. In the concealed carry world, that same mugger has a much higher potential threat level. He knows that 1 of his 4 potential victims is armed, but doesn't know which one. If he can't deduce which one of the four it is, he may just decide to find an easier place to do business. Somewhere like Chicago or Madison, Wisconsin; where he knows, by law, NOBODY can be carrying a gun. Those three people NOT carrying have been protected by the one person who IS carrying simply by the presence of the gun.

When I take my family out to eat and patrons are wearing their guns for all to see I would rather not sit next to them, for a host of reasons. The most important reason being when they start shooting the person they are shooting at will return fire. Criminals, not known for their accuracy, puts me and mine in the line of fire.

I am a competitive pistol shooter. I have competed in IDPA events for more than a decade now. Trust me, I am more than well aware of the lack of gun-handling skills in this country, and the LEO's are just as bad as many of the armed citizens and criminals.

I have certain friends who will not go out to eat with me because of the way I deal with the issue you are talking about. I refuse to sit with my back to the main entrance of a restaurant. I refuse to take an inside seat in a booth or to sit with my right arm to the inside of the booth. I won't go into any restaurant, bar, etc... that doesn't let me carry my gun.

There is no way to live totally threat-free in this world. It just isn't possible. To that end, we all need to do our best to defend/protect ourselves and our families, property, etc... Outside of that there's not much we can do about it.

I'm the same way to a point. I don't make a big deal out of it, and if I get seated in a place I don't like, I'll just work with what I have. I hardly ever talk about it or point out what I'm doing, what's the point?

I've worked in lockdown facilities and with violent, scary, crazy people . It's second nature to always know where I am in relation to everything.

 

[editec]

So the theory is that some guy I don't know having a weapon (open or concealed) makes me safer?

Oh yeah, I almost believe that.

 

[AllieBaba]

Lastly, I have no problem trading a little bit of my person comfort for ALL of my personal safety. Then again, when I went out last evening I was carrying: 1 Kubaton/pepper spray canister, 1 folding combat knife, 1 combat flashlight, 1 S&W model 442 .38 Spl revolver, & 2 speedloaders. I did all of this without significantly impacting my personal comfort yet retaining easy and speedy access to every bit of equipment. In fact the only thing that wasn't in a pocket was the revolver itself which sits in a Southern Comfort IWB holser just behind my right hip.

I rest my case, Your Honor.

WTF!

I'm sure NOBODY EVEN NOTICED, Anassronym...bet you blended right in...

 

[Mini 14]

Lastly, I have no problem trading a little bit of my person comfort for ALL of my personal safety. Then again, when I went out last evening I was carrying: 1 Kubaton/pepper spray canister, 1 folding combat knife, 1 combat flashlight, 1 S&W model 442 .38 Spl revolver, & 2 speedloaders. I did all of this without significantly impacting my personal comfort yet retaining easy and speedy access to every bit of equipment. In fact the only thing that wasn't in a pocket was the revolver itself which sits in a Southern Comfort IWB holser just behind my right hip.

I rest my case, Your Honor.

WTF!

I'm sure NOBODY EVEN NOTICED, Anassronym...bet you blended right in...

As I said.....

if that crazy fucker ever walked into one of my stores, we would drop him like a brick and hold him until the authorities arrived.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

If people are carrying openly, the criminal starts by shooting those obviously armed. The cowards however, not knowing who might or might not be armed, have pause. If open carry were legal, I would still conceal.

 

[Momanohedhunter]

The reason they need to be concealed is to be considerate of the public around you. Some states will revoke your ccw card if you dont keep it concealed. I can also see the virtue of open carry. I got my ccw, but it was a waist of money really, As a hand gun always pokes and digs. It was just a pain in the ass. That would be another benefit of open carry, it would be allot more comfortable. I also agree about the Nuge. I find him hard to listen to when he talks.

Sounds like you didn't do a whole lot of research, testing, and preparation before you decided on the gun, ammunition, holster, carry method, etc....

I carry all seasons and in all weather here in New England. 10 Degree winter days and 95 degree summer days. Casual, dressy, business attire, etc... without any significant issues. It's all about looking at what the situation calls for and what your best options are. Of course I had the benefit of some friends with last names like Ayoob, Hackathorn, Wilson, etc... to help me out; and the sense to read and talk to people who had been doing this for more than 30 years before I started carrying myself.

Lastly, I have no problem trading a little bit of my person comfort for ALL of my personal safety. Then again, when I went out last evening I was carrying: 1 Kubaton/pepper spray canister, 1 folding combat knife, 1 combat flashlight, 1 S&W model 442 .38 Spl revolver, & 2 speedloaders. I did all of this without significantly impacting my personal comfort yet retaining easy and speedy access to every bit of equipment. In fact the only thing that wasn't in a pocket was the revolver itself which sits in a Southern Comfort IWB holser just behind my right hip.

I did about five months worth. I just dont like the feeling of how a holstered hand gun feels when stuffed in my waist band. Your list is impressive, but I dont consider arm chair commandos as a valid option for training. I will stick with a 16 year veteran of HPD, as he has practiced what he teaches, that and 10 years of military service is what I will rely on. In Texas concealed means concealed so no holster can show or anything. I have also never felt the need to carry an arsenal on my person while out having fun. As a matter of fact, I have been maced by a retard who got a crowed of us on 6th street in Austin Texas. I also just dont feel the need to be strapped up all the time.

 

[Momanohedhunter]

If people are carrying openly, the criminal starts by shooting those obviously armed. The cowards however, not knowing who might or might not be armed, have pause. If open carry were legal, I would still conceal.

It is the polite thing to do.

 

[Anachronism]

I did about five months worth. I just dont like the feeling of how a holstered hand gun feels when stuffed in my waist band.

The 442 is the only thing I use the IWB for. My Sig 239 and S&W MP9 both have regular strong-side holsters for the occasions I use those instead of the revolver.

Your list is impressive, but.....

It's not intended to be impressive. It's intended to provide me with the necessary options for dealing with the potential threats on the street.

In Texas concealed means concealed so no holster can show or anything. I have also never felt the need to carry an arsenal on my person while out having fun. As a matter of fact, I have been maced by a retard who got a crowed of us on 6th street in Austin Texas. I also just dont feel the need to be strapped up all the time.

I live in MASSACHUSETTS. Simply having the gun "print" on your shirt/jacket can get you arrested for MENACING (a felony here) and ensure you never get a license in this state again.

I don't go out for "fun"; and even if I did, I have so little faith in my fellow human beings that I would not do so without some form of self-defense tool on my person at all times. Generally it's just the OC Spray/kubaton but if I'm going out to anywhere with a crowd it will be more than that.

 

[Anachronism]

It is the polite thing to do.

More importantly it's the SMART thing to do.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

If people are carrying openly, the criminal starts by shooting those obviously armed. The cowards however, not knowing who might or might not be armed, have pause. If open carry were legal, I would still conceal.

It is the polite thing to do.

It's the strategic thing to do.

 

[spectrumc01]

I don't know? It seams to me that if I was going to carry and had the strength of my convictions I would carry openly if possible. As I am confident in my abilities and judgement. Those who conceal their weapons give the illusion of being sneaky. Not alot of positive associations go with the term "sneaky". If you were to carry openly I'm sure the law enforcement community would really appreciate it.

As for those who have practice on the range, shoot competitvely, and believe they have been trained properly, let me say this. When it is "go" time and bullets are comming at you, the majority of your training goes out the window, and nobody knows for certain how they will react no matter what they say. Just my expierience.