drones vs. hand to hand-combat

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by Dot Com, Dec 3, 2012.

  1. Dot Com
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    Dot Com Nullius in verba Supporting Member

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    This was brought up before the election in that 44 wanted to leave an updated guidlines for operating teh drones should his opponent win teh election.

    On Point just had a good program @ drones and their legality & the impersonalization of killing.

    Rules For Drones | On Point with Tom Ashbrook
    Its analogous to guns in Japan back in the day. Way back when I was in Japan, guns were only used by people who couldn't fight. Add to this the kings ransom the tax-payers are paying for these from the *cough* "contractors". Imagine some pencil-necked geek w/ a pocket protector taking out a warrior. Somethin aint right w/ this picture. Should theh drone army be curtailed?

    Discuss...
     
  2. waltky
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    waltky Gold Member Supporting Member

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    Mebbe is Israeli drone?...
    :eusa_shifty:
    Navy: No US drones missing after Iran claim
    Dec 4,`12 -- A U.S. Navy spokesman says no American drones are missing in the Middle East following Iranian claims it had captured an unmanned American surveillance aircraft.
     
  3. Old Rocks
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    Old Rocks Gold Member

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    This is an asymetrical war. No uniforms, no rules, one side considers civilians, even children, legitimate targets. That side hides among civilians when they are not on the attack, using nations that hostile to us, or unstable enough not to be able to take them out.

    Now, how should we fight them? Take out the cities that they are hiding in? Send in soldiers in an invasion and hope we can catch them before they escape? We have the military capability to do other, at least a couple of times. Both options would result in massive civilian causulties. The latter major casualties to among our sons and daughters in the military.

    Or, we can use our technology, and catch them on road, or in an isolated area, and take them out. A much less costly option than the other two. And these people are not warriors. Warriors don't purposely target women and children. Whether our own murderers, like Timothy McVeigh, or members of the Taliban that shoot little girls for political reasons, we are not taking out warriors, we are serving justice on murderers.
     
  4. TakeAStepBack
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    TakeAStepBack Gold Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  5. AmyNation
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    AmyNation Road Warrior Supporting Member

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    Drones allow the government more leeway to attack.

    While I think drones are better than boots on the ground, I worry over the power the executive branch has with drones.
     
  6. Dot Com
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    Dot Com Nullius in verba Supporting Member

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    not saying they don't hit their target most of the time based on human intel, which can be flawed, just that they are legally dubious, an affront to civil liberties/big brother government, and create more enemies than they kill according to some accounts.
     
  7. AmyNation
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    AmyNation Road Warrior Supporting Member

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    Notice how women and children are separate, but not men? All men hit in the zone are considered enemy combatants. Apparently men can't be innocent civilians.:rolleyes:
     
  8. whitehall
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    whitehall Gold Member Supporting Member

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    The opposite of drones is not hand to hand combat. There are other methods of eliminating the enemy cleaner and with better accuracy. Drones are nothing more than an updated video game version of the old WW2 tactic of "bomb them all and let God sort them out".
     
  9. TakeAStepBack
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    TakeAStepBack Gold Member

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    That's the narrative presented by the pentagon anyway.

    The fact is this policy is just as dispicable as when Bush was doing it. The only difference is now, we don't hear so much about it anymore. It doesn't fit the desired narrative in building perception.
     
  10. Dot Com
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    Dot Com Nullius in verba Supporting Member

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  11. zzzz
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    zzzz Just a regular American

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    9/11 altered American perceptions and changed the definition of war in the twenty first century. The war against terrorism is not defined by fronts or armies marching and occupying territory. It is about body counts, the fallacy of Vietnam and we are gradually sinking into the quicksand of that mind-frame. The war cannot be won by drone strikes or military action but by dislodging the indoctrination process the Islamist extremists have imposed on the children of Islam.

    By influencing the young they guarantee a long line of recruits to keep the conflict alive forever. They believe that sooner or later the western democracies will tire of the deaths and cost of the war and give up. Then they will gain the initiative and dominate the world.

    Drone attacks help to alleviate the inherent malaise that democracies have in long running conflicts when citizens are dying over many years. With drones the citizens are not dying but the perceived enemy is and the public attention is vapid.
     
  12. Dot Com
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    Dot Com Nullius in verba Supporting Member

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    collateral damage is inherent in these strikes. Take out 15 people to get one then more are created. The contractors don't mind as they are getting paid and in turn financing their politicians next election.
     
  13. Montrovant
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    Montrovant Fuzzy bears!

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    I'm not sure how some of this is specifically drone-related. It's not as though we couldn't use manned planes to drop bombs if we really wanted to. Drones are a way to avoid casualties on our side (as well as other considerations I'm sure, cost probably being a big one). Unmanned vehicles and weapons were always inevitable, I think, as soon as they became viable. It does change the way battle is viewed and fought, but it's hard to argue that a country should put it's people in danger in manned vehicles rather than using drones.
     
  14. Dot Com
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    Dot Com Nullius in verba Supporting Member

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    drones can violate other country's airspace w/ less chance of being detected.
     
  15. Montrovant
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    Montrovant Fuzzy bears!

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    Stealth planes could do the same when they were introduced, that doesn't mean anyone should have stuck with more easily detected vehicles. :)
     
  16. Billo_Really
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    Billo_Really Gold Member

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    Drone warfare is terrorism!​
     
  17. 9thIDdoc
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    9thIDdoc Senior Member

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    The drones are great and the future.
     
  18. Pogo
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    Pogo Gold Member

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    Just for perspective, we've been using drones since Vietnam in war and before that in surveillance. They're not new.
     
  19. Old Rocks
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    Old Rocks Gold Member

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    When we deal with people that coordinate terrorist attacks on our nation or people from the safety of areas in which we have no jurisdiction, then brag about it, inaction is not an option. I don't care if the base is in Moscow or Pakistan, we have to take them out.

    Drones are far better than armed invasions. And, yes, inevitably there will be inocent lives taken. 10 or 15, rather than 10 or 15 thousand or more, as in standard warfare. It is an ugly business. All war is. But fail to teach the lesson, and 9-11 will be repeated.
     
  20. Polk
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    Polk Classic

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    Without diving in to the more practial consideration, have any of you who support the use of drones stopped to consider the risks to safety posed by them? Doesn't the ability to strike without taking significant damage make strikes more likely to occur, and as the technology progresses, the more likely for our own citizens to be harmed by it.
     

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