Don't get sick, and if you do, die quickly...

[CrusaderFrank]

Maybe if they were allowed to buy insurance across state lines....

Increasing the number of insurance companies will not change their general behavior towards making profits.

Basic 1 2 of insurance companies is follows
1) Insure healthy people--that is how you gain money
2)Abandon sick people. That is how you keep money.

No level or amount of competion a right winger can think up will change that.
That is why the suggestion of a Health savings account are endorsed by many conservatives and Libertarians. Yes there is a right wing-personal responsibility choice that is out there.

Buying insurance from, say, Wyoming or Utah, will not change that. That is a corporatists BS-propaganda line to keep the "maximum profit market system" going for them.

Since you didn't read it the first time:

The free markets competes away extraordinary returns. With few exceptions, largely for SuperCat, where there are only a very small handful of companies able to underwrite and shoulder the risk, if an insurance company is writing policies at a 10% return a competitor will come in and offer the same policy at an 8% return. See, the insurance business is more about investing the float than it is about writing policies with large returns

 

[manu1959]

For those wondering what the Republican plan is, you can see it here in action:

and what did the democrats do to help this lady? obama's plan won't even take affect until after the next election, so it is an outright lie to say that this is an example of a republican plan

The Republican plan is to continue to allow the insurance companies to screw the sick.

Fuck them!

what a load of crap......no politicain has done shit about this ever....

both parties now finally agree there needs to be coverage available for all...but as usual it is how to pay for it.....

as far as i can tell....the dems want the rich to pay for the poor...the robin hood option......and the pubs want each person to be incentivized to get their own....mccains tax credit option for example......

why is it so fucking hard for you myopic types to be iunable to see both sides.....

btw there already is a public option it is called medicare / medicade.....all the y ave to do is open it up to the poor and uninsured....

 

[Meister]

Maybe if they were allowed to buy insurance across state lines....

Increasing the number of insurance companies will not change their general behavior towards making profits.

Basic 1 2 of insurance companies is follows
1) Insure healthy people--that is how you gain money
2)Abandon sick people. That is how you keep money.

No level or amount of competion a right winger can think up will change that.
That is why the suggestion of a Health savings account are endorsed by many conservatives and Libertarians. Yes there is a right wing-personal responsibility choice that is out there.

Buying insurance from, say, Wyoming or Utah, will not change that. That is a corporatists BS-propaganda line to keep the "maximum profit market system" going for them.

Open competition DOES lower costs, Amrchaos....that IS how to lower costs.
Public option WILL increase our debt, just as Medicare has a 74 TRILLION dollar loss, and counting. The public option will dwarf the Medicare debt. But, continue on with your story.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Open competition DOES lower costs, Amrchaos....that IS how to lower costs.

No it doesn't. The market will still set the bar high cost-wise because they will not reduce their profits for any reason. Make them accept the sick, cancer patients and those with chronic illnesses that they must maintain and the cost goes even higher. We need a not-for-profit entity handling our insurance needs. Period.

 

[Emma]

Yeah! $60 Billion lost to fraud and $200 Billion in defensive practices ANNUALLY to defend against lawsuits isn't enough!

THAT'S 1 Quarter of a TRILLION EACH AND EVERY FUCKING YEAR!

WE NEED Mo' and Mo'' Bigger GOVERNMENT!

Fuck you too, Frank.

Emma, Medicare is something like 74 trillion dollars in debt at this point. The public option healthcare will be far worse...even though we don't have a perfect healthcare system, we just can't afford to sustain this kind of debt. It WILL ruin our economy.

No, it's not.

The primary reason why Medicare runs in the red is the majority of those covered by medicare subsidized by payroll taxes aren't paying premiums. Only $2.9 billion of its income of nearly $231 billion comes from its client base --- which are statistically the sickest demographic.

Trustees Report Summary

 

[manu1959]

gmac our recently purchased auto / financial investment needs 7 billion more ..... we sure know how to run a business .......

anyway .....

emboldened by our recent sucess in the financial and auto industries.....we are about to start an insurance company to insure all the uninsured .... our business model will be to provide insurance to the poor uninsured and the prexisting condition unisured.....the cost to insure this pool will be very high....i just got my company's renewal yesterday....375 per individal 825 per couple.....1150 per family...per month .... hmo ...good coverage.....this is up 15% over last year....

so if the goverment makes you buy it that is what it will cost you.....if the government decides to buy it for you then 30 million people times 375 is $11,250,000,000 per month.....

that the government gets to pay an underwriter to provide the insurance.....

i hope they have the start up capital.....

 

[Meister]

Open competition DOES lower costs, Amrchaos....that IS how to lower costs.

No it doesn't. The market will still set the bar high cost-wise because they will not reduce their profits for any reason. Make them accept the sick, cancer patients and those with chronic illnesses that they must maintain and the cost goes even higher. We need a not-for-profit entity handling our insurance needs. Period.

I fully disagree with you and your assumption. Free market will always lower costs...get rid of the frivilous law suits...(which the politicians don't want to do, because they are in the pockets of trial lawyers) and that will bring down costs even more. A public option by our government will ruin the economy. We haven't addressed the 74 trillion dollar loss with Medicare, and the Government option will be 1/5-1/6 of our economy, think of the staggering losses which the democrats don't even want to address, nor the libs on this board. I see the reality of what's about to happen, and the libs see the "pie in the sky" on what's about to happen.

 

[Meister]

Fuck you too, Frank.

Emma, Medicare is something like 74 trillion dollars in debt at this point. The public option healthcare will be far worse...even though we don't have a perfect healthcare system, we just can't afford to sustain this kind of debt. It WILL ruin our economy.

No, it's not.

The primary reason why Medicare runs in the red is the majority of those covered by medicare subsidized by payroll taxes aren't paying premiums. Only $2.9 billion of its income of nearly $231 billion comes from its client base --- which are statistically the sickest demographic.

Trustees Report Summary

Emma, Medicare is 74 trillion dollars in the red...I don't care for what reason it is in the red. The bottom line is 74 trillion dollars, and high percentage of that is fraud and waste.
The government isn't going to change....they can't run a business, because they don't have a clue how to....period.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

A public option by our government will ruin the economy.

Show me an example where market freedom led to lower costs that didn't hurt consumers or that made their life better. Just one example, I beg of you. And the not-for-profit entity doesn't have to be government. It could be an independent not-for-profit.

 

[Meister]

A public option by our government will ruin the economy.

Show me an example where market freedom led to lower costs that didn't hurt consumers or that made their life better. Just one example, I beg of you. And the not-for-profit entity doesn't have to be government. It could be an independent not-for-profit.

Electicity, and natural gas..of the top of my head.

What our government wants is a public option with the government....pelosi and reid have both stated it. They want their paws into the mix.
I am all for healthcare reform, but I want the proper reform, and the government out of it.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Electicity, and natural gas..of the top of my head.

There is no free market for either of those things. I live in Brooklyn and Con Edison is the only electricity provider that I can use. Natual gas - same thing for most - there is only one provider. And they also collude to keep prices higher because they have to MAKE A PROFIT. There is no "free market" for any of these. Oh, and by the way, my parents live in Tennessee and have the TVA in effect there. They pay 10% less or more than I do for electricity. Explain that.

 

[Meister]

Electicity, and natural gas..of the top of my head.

There is no free market for either of those things. I live in Brooklyn and Con Edison is the only electricity provider that I can use. Natual gas - same thing for most - there is only one provider. And they also collude to keep prices higher because they have to MAKE A PROFIT. There is no "free market" for any of these. Oh, and by the way, my parents live in Tennessee and have the TVA in effect there. They pay 10% less or more than I do for electricity. Explain that.

We had Edison in California and and they got their electricity from out of state several times for cheaper electricity. The same goes for natural gas, a company has several options when supplying . The free market doesn't mean that the costs will be blanketed everywhere. It mean one source supplies cheaper than another....hence the free market. You live in NY, and that's an expensive place to live. The government pays a premiun for employees that live in that area.
In a free market, it is the right of the company to make a profit.
The government doesn't have to, it can tax, print money, and run a deficit....which isn't healthy for the economy

 

[Charles Stucker]

For those wondering what the Republican plan is, you can see it here in action:

Mom’s death is only relief from medical debt

Right this is a real clear cut case. Tragic, but one of the family's own making.
Contract employees get paid more than a standard employees because they can have their contract ended so easily. Perhaps you missed that part.
The guy got $100,000 a year in Texas, where that is still good money.
But he did not want to waste any of it on getting his own policy, no the company policy was good enough.
Then she got sick.
He got the boot.
Tragic, but I have a different question: How did her tumor get so big?
Answer: she didn't get regular checkups.

Telling me any of those is my responsibility is the worst kind of liberal thinking. To avoid this kind of situation people should get regular checkups.
Now before some liberal bleeds all over this and states "What about the sudden onset diseases" and "What about people who can't afford any insurance"
I'll say - Sudden onset diseases which cannot be anticipated are the reason to have insurance, and people who truly can't afford any insurance qualify for medicaid.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

We had Edison in California and and they got their electricity from out of state several times for cheaper electricity. The same goes for natural gas, a company has several options when supplying . The free market doesn't mean that the costs will be blanketed everywhere. It mean one source supplies cheaper than another....hence the free market. You live in NY, and that's an expensive place to live. The government pays a premiun for employees that live in that area.
In a free market, it is the right of the company to make a profit.
The government doesn't have to, it can tax, print money, and run a deficit....which isn't healthy for the economy

So the utility gets a choice of where to buy cheaper electricity? So what? They sure as heck don't pass those savings on to us, do they? They'd rather pay there CEO another cool million a year instead. I asked you to give me an example where freer markets helped consumers and lowered cost. My energy bills are up 40% from 3 years ago with no lifestyle change... My parents' electric bills haven't gone up much at all.

 

[Yurt]

I've just admitted that the longer we wait, the more mothers, fathers and children will suffer her horrible fate.

and obama WANTS to wait until after the next election, so your thread is meadowmuffins....it is actually obama who's plan would have them die, not the other way around

If a arsonist sets a house on fire and firefighters have to take a long time to save the people living in there, you blame the firefighters?

false analogy....the republicans did not start the health problem

further, if the firefighters purposefully for five hours while the house burned down, then yes, i would blame them....

next

 

[manu1959]

We had Edison in California and and they got their electricity from out of state several times for cheaper electricity. The same goes for natural gas, a company has several options when supplying . The free market doesn't mean that the costs will be blanketed everywhere. It mean one source supplies cheaper than another....hence the free market. You live in NY, and that's an expensive place to live. The government pays a premiun for employees that live in that area.
In a free market, it is the right of the company to make a profit.
The government doesn't have to, it can tax, print money, and run a deficit....which isn't healthy for the economy

So the utility gets a choice of where to buy cheaper electricity? So what? They sure as heck don't pass those savings on to us, do they? They'd rather pay there CEO another cool million a year instead. I asked you to give me an example where freer markets helped consumers and lowered cost. My energy bills are up 40% from 3 years ago with no lifestyle change... My parents' electric bills haven't gone up much at all.

actually the puc controls what you pay.....energy is pretty much oil or coal based....you know what oil costs and the air quality regs to retorfit the coal plants cost money.....

you could alwys buy solar panels and go off grid and stop complaining....cost would be about 30,000 which they will fund based on what you pay know and you will get a tax credit....

 

[Mr. Peepers]

you could alwys buy solar panels and go off grid and stop complaining....

I would love to, but I rent. There is no way I could afford to buy property in NYC. If I ever do have my own home, you can bet your sweet ass I'm going off the grid.

 

[Meister]

We had Edison in California and and they got their electricity from out of state several times for cheaper electricity. The same goes for natural gas, a company has several options when supplying . The free market doesn't mean that the costs will be blanketed everywhere. It mean one source supplies cheaper than another....hence the free market. You live in NY, and that's an expensive place to live. The government pays a premiun for employees that live in that area.
In a free market, it is the right of the company to make a profit.
The government doesn't have to, it can tax, print money, and run a deficit....which isn't healthy for the economy

So the utility gets a choice of where to buy cheaper electricity? So what? They sure as heck don't pass those savings on to us, do they? They'd rather pay there CEO another cool million a year instead. I asked you to give me an example where freer markets helped consumers and lowered cost. My energy bills are up 40% from 3 years ago with no lifestyle change... My parents' electric bills haven't gone up much at all.

Airlines


Like i said earlier, you live in one of the most expensive places in the US. I live in Idaho, the house next to me is a nice 3 bedroom, two bath and sits on a 1/3 acre...selling for 155,000. Cost of living is reasonable here....but everyone has to make choices, and you made yours, so don't be crying about it.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

My industry is here. I work import / export for a major trading company. All port cities are expensive - well, except for Memphis, but jobs are scarce there. Besides, my argument is not with location, but profits before services rendered, especially services that are necessary to living. The airlines are more effed up than ever and more expensive than ever. Also, look what deregulation of credit cards did. Look what deregulation of banks and lenders did.

Yes, so the PUC sets the price and then the utility company adds on to that so that they get a nice big profit, driving up the price for me even more. That is why my private electricity costs 10% more than my parents' TVA electricty. The middle-man has been cut out.

 

[Varth Dader]

Open competition DOES lower costs, Amrchaos....that IS how to lower costs.

No it doesn't. The market will still set the bar high cost-wise because they will not reduce their profits for any reason. Make them accept the sick, cancer patients and those with chronic illnesses that they must maintain and the cost goes even higher. We need a not-for-profit entity handling our insurance needs. Period.

I fully disagree with you and your assumption. Free market will always lower costs...get rid of the frivilous law suits...(which the politicians don't want to do, because they are in the pockets of trial lawyers) and that will bring down costs even more. A public option by our government will ruin the economy. We haven't addressed the 74 trillion dollar loss with Medicare, and the Government option will be 1/5-1/6 of our economy, think of the staggering losses which the democrats don't even want to address, nor the libs on this board. I see the reality of what's about to happen, and the libs see the "pie in the sky" on what's about to happen.

Free markets will always lower costs?

Have you ever heard of monopolies?