Don't Fall for GOP Lie: There Is No Budget Crisis -- There's a Job & Growth Crisis

[Lakhota]

Would your rather include all information available or would you really just choose to stare at a fucking graph that tells little to nothing?

Duh, did you click on the associated link to help explain that complicated ole graph to you...?

 

[USArmyRetired]

So Much For Eurosclerosis: Yet Another Study Suggests That Higher Taxes, Bigger Government Won't Reduce Employment. | The New Republic

Colorado Voices: Taxes don't cause job losses - The Denver Post

Thom Hartmann | Job creation myth | Debt ceiling | Mediaite

Interesting posting links to Obama bias news sources who endorsed him in the last election.

THE DENVER POST ENDORSES
Barack Obama for president
He's the right man to lead America back to prosperity
Barack Obama for president - The Denver Post

 

[Lakhota]

Okay, can any of you righties provide any "credible" and "factual" analyses/studies to show that lower taxes on the rich actually create more jobs?

Come on, let's see your "trickle-down" facts. I didn't know anyone still believed in Reaganomics.

Demand increases jobs - not lower taxes on the rich.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Would your rather include all information available or would you really just choose to stare at a fucking graph that tells little to nothing?

Duh, did you click on the associated link to help explain that complicated ole graph to you...?

Only democrats "need help to explain a graph."

Thats why you don't understand shit.... You're always told what to do because you don't have enough fucking brains to research and understand for yourselves.

Then you call those who dissent sheep??

Unbelievable!!

 

[Mr.Nick]

Okay, can any of you righties provide any "credible" and "factual" analyses/studies to show that lower taxes on the rich actually create more jobs?

Come on, let's see your "trickle-down" facts. I didn't know anyone still believed in Reaganomics.

Demand increases jobs - not lower taxes on the rich.

Demand??

You think Obama created a fucking demand???

NOPE, that stimulus money went right into the unions pockets - it was a fucking payoff..

Yes I can prove it..

Now Democratic Illinois is supposed to have all these public works and road projects right and its supposed to be funded by the stimulus correct??

The state bailed out some of the teacher union and public sector pensions (and those greedy fucks still want more)

Now explain this: Illinois toll increase: State seeks big increase in tolls - chicagotribune.com

Yeah, Illinois is raising the tolls to pay for the road projects that are allegedly supposed to be covered under the stimulus grants..

Once again libmotherfuckers are dishonest pricks... Steal, steal,steal...

Fucking zombies.

There is a toll about every 10 miles in Illinois and it costs $1.50 right now per toll..

So we can pay for the welfare Obamafuck voting base to vote democrat. So they can get their free food, free money, free roads ...

Yeah, smart move, charging taxpayers 1.50 per 10 miles... Only a snug retarded bleeding heart fool would tolerate that, let alone a hike of as much as .90 cents??

Welcome to Obamaland...

Yeah but the Tea Party is unreasonable???

The proposed nonsense would be 2.40 every 10 miles.... Of course thats on top of the 7 dollar tax on smokes and 5 dollar tax on Red Bull.

I know the liberals love it...

Wait until the libfucks are the only ones left in this wasteland.

 

[JoeB131]

Yes, the ratio of the national debt to the total economy is high relative to what it's been. But it's not nearly as high as it was after World War II -- when it reached 120 percent of the economy's total output.

If and when the economy begins to grow faster - if more Americans get jobs, and we move toward a full recovery -- the debt/GDP ratio will fall, as it did in the 1950s, and as it does in every solid recovery. Revenues will pour into the Treasury, and much of the current "budget crisis" will be evaporate.

Reich's bizarre assertation has a lot of problems.

First, it's that after WWII, we did have a huge debt. But here's the thing, we dedicated ourselves to paying it off after the war. We didn't keep spending like madmen. We also had a huge advantage after the war in that we had an intact industrial and agricultural infrastructure, which brought in inordinate amounts of money feeding and fixing the rest of the world, and there was unprecedented growth.

Due to the ridiculous free trade policies followed by his former Boss, Bill Clinton, we are in the opposite situation today. Our factories are closing down, they are moving them overseas, and we are bleeding half a trillion dollars every year in trade deficits.

Here's a key point. From World War I until 1976, the US posted trade surpluses with the rest of the world. We exported more than we brought in. Raw materials in, manufactured goods out. And in that entire time, despite two world wars and a few smaller ones, building an interstate highway system, putting men on the moon, etc, by the bicentenial, the national Debt was a mere 600 billion. For our whole flipping history. (By comparison, B. Hussein thinks if he can get the deficit for a single year down to 600 billion, he's accomplished something!)

Jimmy Carter increased the national debt to nearly a trillion. Reagan doubled it again, and so did Bush-41. Clinton slowed down the growth and created the illusion of surpluses using smoke and mirrors, but really it was the equivlent of using a surplus in the pension fund and medical funds to cover a deficit in operting expenses, something that would get you sent to jail in the private sector. Bush-43 added to the problem, too. But Obama has gone hog wild, increasing the national debt by 4 trillion in less than 3 years. BUt the real problem is, this country is bleeding out money to the rest of the world, because of idiotic free trade agreements. And they keep doing it.

"HEy, we want to sign this new treaty with Korea and South America, but we need to have job training for all those people who will lose their jobs!"

Then don't sign the effin' treaty if people are going to lose jobs.

The other part of the problem is all the mandates put on by government has made hiring less attractive. Even if you make something here, you are trying to make it with as few people possible.

Final point. IN those bygone days of WWII, medical expenses were relatively small. Now Medicare, Medicaid, and private insurance eat up 1/6th of the economy. Social security has also become a huge burden because people aren't dying shortly after they turn 65 like they did in the oldy days when it was first introduced. Not that it matters, if you are over 50 and find yourself unemployed, you are probably going to stay unemployed in the Obama Economy. With those kinds of obligations, no one wants to get rich here, any more than they want to be the fattest turkey the week before Thanksgiving.

 

[WillowTree]

A friend who's been watching the absurd machinations in Congress asked me "what happens if we don't solve the budget crisis and we run out of money to pay the nation's bills?"

It was only then I realized how effective Republicans lies have been. That we're calling it a "budget crisis" and worrying that if we don't "solve" it we can't pay our nation's bills is testament to how successful Republicans have been distorting the truth.

The federal budget deficit has no economic relationship to the debt limit. Republicans have linked the two, and the Administration has played along, but they are entirely separate. Republicans are using what would otherwise be a routine, legally technical vote to raise the debt limit as a means of holding the nation hostage to their own political goal of shrinking the size of the federal government.

In economic terms, we will not "run out of money" next week. We're still the richest nation in the world, and the Federal Reserve has unlimited capacity to print money.

Nor is there any economic imperative economic to reach an agreement on how to fix the budget deficit by Tuesday. It's not even clear the federal budget needs that much fixing anyway.

Yes, the ratio of the national debt to the total economy is high relative to what it's been. But it's not nearly as high as it was after World War II -- when it reached 120 percent of the economy's total output.

If and when the economy begins to grow faster - if more Americans get jobs, and we move toward a full recovery -- the debt/GDP ratio will fall, as it did in the 1950s, and as it does in every solid recovery. Revenues will pour into the Treasury, and much of the current "budget crisis" will be evaporate.

Get it? We're really in a "jobs and growth" crisis - not a budget crisis.

The GOP has manufactured a budget crisis out of the Republicans' extortionate demands over raising the debt limit. They have succeeded in hoodwinking the public, including my friend.

More: Don't Fall for the GOP Lie: There Is No Budget Crisis -- There's a Job and Growth Crisis by Robert Reich

dimocrats wouldn't know a budget crisis if it bit them in the ass,, wanna know why? they ain't done no damn budget in over 800 days,, so no budget,, no crisis in your convoluted world,, and secondly if your president hadn't pissed away a couple of trillion dollars with NOTHING to show for it and lied to us about "shovel ready jobs" when there never were any,, seems to me the big fat liars are the dimocrats and you live in a lettuce spinner.

 

[WillowTree]

i'm not an obama fan and did not vote for him. However, i certainly don't hate him like the republicans who are holding america hostage to prevent his reelection.

liar

 

[editec]

Yes, the ratio of the national debt to the total economy is high relative to what it's been. But it's not nearly as high as it was after World War II -- when it reached 120 percent of the economy's total output.

If and when the economy begins to grow faster - if more Americans get jobs, and we move toward a full recovery -- the debt/GDP ratio will fall, as it did in the 1950s, and as it does in every solid recovery. Revenues will pour into the Treasury, and much of the current "budget crisis" will be evaporate.

Reich's bizarre assertation has a lot of problems.

First, it's that after WWII, we did have a huge debt. But here's the thing, we dedicated ourselves to paying it off after the war. We didn't keep spending like madmen. We also had a huge advantage after the war in that we had an intact industrial and agricultural infrastructure, which brought in inordinate amounts of money feeding and fixing the rest of the world, and there was unprecedented growth.

True

Due to the ridiculous free trade policies followed by his former Boss, Bill Clinton, we are in the opposite situation today. Our factories are closing down, they are moving them overseas, and we are bleeding half a trillion dollars every year in trade deficits.

Partially true. You forget to chide every other POTUS since IKE, however

FREE TRADE POLICIES have been going on however, since the 50s. Their aggregate effects are certainly part of the problem.

Here's a key point. From World War I until 1976, the US posted trade surpluses with the rest of the world. We exported more than we brought in. Raw materials in, manufactured goods out. And in that entire time, despite two world wars and a few smaller ones, building an interstate highway system, putting men on the moon, etc, by the bicentenial, the national Debt was a mere 600 billion. For our whole flipping history. (By comparison, B. Hussein thinks if he can get the deficit for a single year down to 600 billion, he's accomplished something!)

Yes. And taxes were much MUCH higher then. Remember, back in the days of IKE the top tax rate was 90%.

Jimmy Carter increased the national debt to nearly a trillion. Reagan doubled it again, and so did Bush-41. Clinton slowed down the growth and created the illusion of surpluses using smoke and mirrors, but really it was the equivlent of using a surplus in the pension fund and medical funds to cover a deficit in operting expenses, something that would get you sent to jail in the private sector.

Except fo the fact that you credit the POTUSs for increasing the debt, as though they had absolutely control over that spending (they don't) this is basically spot on.

Bush-43 added to the problem, too. But Obama has gone hog wild, increasing the national debt by 4 trillion in less than 3 years. BUt the real problem is, this country is bleeding out money to the rest of the world, because of idiotic free trade agreements. And they keep doing it.

Yes

"HEy, we want to sign this new treaty with Korea and South America, but we need to have job training for all those people who will lose their jobs!"

Then don't sign the effin' treaty if people are going to lose jobs.

Yes

The other part of the problem is all the mandates put on by government has made hiring less attractive. Even if you make something here, you are trying to make it with as few people possible.

What "mandates"? This is a GOP talking point with no substance

Final point. IN those bygone days of WWII, medical expenses were relatively small. Now Medicare, Medicaid, and private insurance eat up 1/6th of the economy.

TOTALLY, right. In the 50s heath care ate up 4% of the GDP. It's now more like 16% of the GDP.

Social security has also become a huge burden because people aren't dying shortly after they turn 65 like they did in the oldy days when it was first introduced.

Wrongo!

Social Security has been SELF FUNDING for decades and decades.

Social Security is NOT an expense of the FED, it is one of the FED's CREDITORS.

The DoD an expense. Homeland Security is an expense. The IRS, FBI, CIA, FDA, FAA etc etc...they are EXPENSES of the FED.

Social Security, however is one of the FED's many CEDITORS.

Not that it matters, if you are over 50 and find yourself unemployed, you are probably going to stay unemployed in the Obama Economy. With those kinds of obligations, no one wants to get rich here, any more than they want to be the fattest turkey the week before Thanksgiving.

Nobody wants to be rich here??!

There is no better place in the world to be rich than the USA.

A very stable, very safe society with very low taxes on the wealthy and a population of poor which worship you if you rich.

The USA is a great place to be RICH.

.

 

[JoeB131]

What "mandates"? This is a GOP talking point with no substance

How about everything involved in ObamaCare, which will make employing people a much more expensive proposition? How about all the new enviromental rules that make it impossible to open a factory, much less maintain the ones you have.

Wrongo! Social Security has been SELF FUNDING for decades and decades. Social Security is NOT an expense.

Okay, keep telling yourself that, but the only reason it lasted this long was because Reagan reformed it in the 1980's, by making it a lot more expensive to employ someone. Now it's paying out more than it's taking in, and we have to come up with that shortfall somewhere. Eventually, they'll run through all the money they're pretending to hold in "bonds" that will have to be paid off.

Here's the problem with social security. The LIE is that it's a retirement program. It isn't. It's a welfare program. The money you pay in goes right to old people collecting money now, and if you live long enough (let's say to about 72) you will take more out of it than you ever put in.

 

[JoeB131]

Yes. And taxes were much MUCH higher then. Remember, back in the days of IKE the top tax rate was 90%.

Another lie. Yes, the top rate was 90%, but no one actually paid that. There were plenty of loopholes, deductions and shelters that made the top tax rate really closer to about 45%.

 

[Liberty]

We don't have a tax % problem, we have a tax base problem. Need more taxpayers not higher taxes. Idiot democrats...always trying to steal from people...thieves and crooks. nothing more.

 

[rdean]

Companies are doing fantastic. Republicans don't want that to change.

 

[midcan5]

Excellent OP but lost on the ideologues of the right. Corporate brainwashing has been one of the most successful movements of the last century and it continues today. Buy American made and stop whining.

"This is when the Republican Party set its trap. Meeting in closed sessions at the beginning of the Obama regime, the party of tax cuts for the rich, unfunded wars, and the largest deficit in the history of the country redefined itself. It suddenly became the party of deficit reduction through lean government joined to supreme confidence in unregulated financial and corporate markets. It even opposed the bail out of General Motors and Chrysler, though these actions stopped unemployment from reaching a dangerous tipping point, allowed the two companies time to reconstruct themselves, and enabled them to pay back the loans within two years–-creating one of the most successful bailouts in the history of Euro-American economic life." The Contemporary Condition: The Republican Pincer Machine


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/21/opinion/21kristof.html?src=me&ref=general


"Under capitalism the only thing the people own is the national debt." Marx

 

[skookerasbil]

A friend who's been watching the absurd machinations in Congress asked me "what happens if we don't solve the budget crisis and we run out of money to pay the nation's bills?"

It was only then I realized how effective Republicans lies have been. That we're calling it a "budget crisis" and worrying that if we don't "solve" it we can't pay our nation's bills is testament to how successful Republicans have been distorting the truth.

The federal budget deficit has no economic relationship to the debt limit. Republicans have linked the two, and the Administration has played along, but they are entirely separate. Republicans are using what would otherwise be a routine, legally technical vote to raise the debt limit as a means of holding the nation hostage to their own political goal of shrinking the size of the federal government.

In economic terms, we will not "run out of money" next week. We're still the richest nation in the world, and the Federal Reserve has unlimited capacity to print money.

Nor is there any economic imperative economic to reach an agreement on how to fix the budget deficit by Tuesday. It's not even clear the federal budget needs that much fixing anyway.

Yes, the ratio of the national debt to the total economy is high relative to what it's been. But it's not nearly as high as it was after World War II -- when it reached 120 percent of the economy's total output.

If and when the economy begins to grow faster - if more Americans get jobs, and we move toward a full recovery -- the debt/GDP ratio will fall, as it did in the 1950s, and as it does in every solid recovery. Revenues will pour into the Treasury, and much of the current "budget crisis" will be evaporate.

Get it? We're really in a "jobs and growth" crisis - not a budget crisis.

The GOP has manufactured a budget crisis out of the Republicans' extortionate demands over raising the debt limit. They have succeeded in hoodwinking the public, including my friend.

More: Don't Fall for the GOP Lie: There Is No Budget Crisis -- There's a Job and Growth Crisis by Robert Reich

HOLY MOTHER OF GOD

It is beyond amazing how many people post on a POLITICS forum while having the political IQ of a small soap dish. I see it all the time on here.

First of all.........nobody knows who Robert Reich is except the small % of Americans who are obsessed with politics stuff. A huge majority couldnt give a rats ass and dont even know who the fcukk John Boehner is much less Robert hyper-left Reich. Talking heads both left and right are followed only by the few relative to the population at large. In fact, if I go talk to 100 assholes strolling through Times Square today, more than half will have no clue about whats going on in DC today.

If the bond ratings are downgraded, the shit hits the fan and immediately too. Only the internet OCD's think Obama will be given a pass. Once the news gets off the congressional wars, people are left only with the day to day misery as the economy falls further and further into the shitter. When the misery index keeps climbing, as it has steadily over the past 2 years, its the president that takes the hit politically. Talking heads on both sides will spin this a thousand ways to Sunday but in the end, the politically unsophisticated always point their finger at the president............of course, not the zombies who will vote for Obama if the unemployment rate hit 50%........but the people who historically change election outcomes. The same 5-10-% who decided things in 2008. They're running to the polls next year falling all over themselves to vote for a continuation of Hope and Change?


People...........like me..........and like a few million others in this country live for this shit we call politics. Call it a hobby. The spin masters know it and spend their lives making big money perpetuating the angst. Those who are truly politically astute can step back and have the ability to cut through the spin on both sides and look at things in a historical context. James Carville said it best back in the early 90's..........some comment about the economy and stupidity. In the end, its that simple. The people hold accountable the guy at the healm when things are cesspool-like. no matter how many thousands of gay rolling smilies Shaman posts up.

Actually..........perhaps the worst thing politically here for the GOP is they actually win the battle and lose the war. Avoid default because the GOP is the only party to take the debt seriously and it is quite possible that the markets respond very positively and investors see the clout of the Tea Party and realize taxes WONT be going up, turn around and start investing leading to growth in the economy and job gains. The Tea Party may well fall on the sword and effectively elect Obama...........a political scenario that would take people like Midcan, Lakhota and Shaman 100 years to have figured out. Because they live and die based upon the spin of the talking heads.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I'm not an Obama fan and did not vote for him. HOWEVER, I certainly don't hate him like the Republicans who are holding America hostage to prevent his reelection.

Thats because you have no clue as to how evil the progressives are.

Their fucked up outcomes are very much planned.... Do you really believe for a second that Obama is disappointed his government controls the lifeline of millions of Americans like a communist government would???

These are authoritarian assclowns - do you really believe they want people to be independent? if they're independent then they're independent from the state which leaves authoritarian fools like Obama powerless.

Why the fuck do you think hes always spewing bullshit about rich vs poor??? white vs black, republican vs democrat??

And that's the truth about Juan McCain's "Good friend" Barack Hussein Obama"

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Companies are doing fantastic. Republicans don't want that to change.

Democrats are on a mission and won't rest until everyone is a poor as the poorest

 

[asterism]

Yes, the ratio of the national debt to the total economy is high relative to what it's been. But it's not nearly as high as it was after World War II -- when it reached 120 percent of the economy's total output.

If and when the economy begins to grow faster - if more Americans get jobs, and we move toward a full recovery -- the debt/GDP ratio will fall, as it did in the 1950s, and as it does in every solid recovery. Revenues will pour into the Treasury, and much of the current "budget crisis" will be evaporate.

True



Partially true. You forget to chide every other POTUS since IKE, however

FREE TRADE POLICIES have been going on however, since the 50s. Their aggregate effects are certainly part of the problem.



Yes. And taxes were much MUCH higher then. Remember, back in the days of IKE the top tax rate was 90%.




Except fo the fact that you credit the POTUSs for increasing the debt, as though they had absolutely control over that spending (they don't) this is basically spot on.




Yes




Yes



What "mandates"? This is a GOP talking point with no substance




TOTALLY, right. In the 50s heath care ate up 4% of the GDP. It's now more like 16% of the GDP.



Wrongo!

Social Security has been SELF FUNDING for decades and decades.

Social Security is NOT an expense of the FED, it is one of the FED's CREDITORS.

The DoD an expense. Homeland Security is an expense. The IRS, FBI, CIA, FDA, FAA etc etc...they are EXPENSES of the FED.

Social Security, however is one of the FED's many CEDITORS.

Not that it matters, if you are over 50 and find yourself unemployed, you are probably going to stay unemployed in the Obama Economy. With those kinds of obligations, no one wants to get rich here, any more than they want to be the fattest turkey the week before Thanksgiving.

Nobody wants to be rich here??!

There is no better place in the world to be rich than the USA.

A very stable, very safe society with very low taxes on the wealthy and a population of poor which worship you if you rich.

The USA is a great place to be RICH.

.

Check his wording again. "No one wants to get rich here," and that's true. The US is a great place to BE rich. GETTING rich is the problem. Too much risk for too little reward. It's turning into a guaranteed losing proposition to try.

 

[Stephanie]

I'm not an Obama fan and did not vote for him. HOWEVER, I certainly don't hate him like the Republicans who are holding America hostage to prevent his reelection.

omg.

 

[asterism]

Yes. And taxes were much MUCH higher then. Remember, back in the days of IKE the top tax rate was 90%.

Another lie. Yes, the top rate was 90%, but no one actually paid that. There were plenty of loopholes, deductions and shelters that made the top tax rate really closer to about 45%.

Plus there was no AMT which wipes out just about all legitimate deductions. Crushing for a small business owner.