Does the money you earn belong to you or the state?

[antagon]

its settled i guess, house. i think you're a tax-cut-con half-wit partisan hack hypocrite (and a pussy for the neg-rep i could give a shit about) and you think i'm a democrat. ...and you don't think i can read. i could really care less if you're my fairy godmother or the tweeker trying to wash my windows for smack yesterday, so i'd leave it at that.

If you didn't care about the Neg rep, why mention it?

it's still reflected in my impression of him, and didn't want anything to go unsubstantiated. i could care less about the rep. only idiots neg-rep me.

 

[Dr.House]

its settled i guess, house. i think you're a tax-cut-con half-wit partisan hack hypocrite (and a pussy for the neg-rep i could give a shit about) and you think i'm a democrat. ...and you don't think i can read. i could really care less if you're my fairy godmother or the tweeker trying to wash my windows for smack yesterday, so i'd leave it at that.

If you didn't care about the Neg rep, why mention it?

Don't bother him... He's busy holding up Bill Clinton's picture with one hand...

 

[eagleseven]

eagleseven, flat-taxes are macroeconomically inept,

That's only if you assume that the poor can grow economies faster than the rich...a Keynesian fallacy.

moreover the effective burden of tax is not flat, just the rate. i see sales tax and point of sales VAT as equally inept, and not likely a constitutional recourse of congress in the US. these are shit policies which only romania would combine. they do so out of cluelessness. the US tax system is one of the best laid in the world, and offers greater potential to support business while funding the largess than do other systems in place elsewhere.

I disagree. The US Tax system is a haphazard collection of idiotic rules and endless loopholes thrown together by a hundred Congresses all jockeying to buy the votes of their respective generation.

It is proof that you can make a flawed system functional by pouring enough money into it.

---

Do you know any tax accountants who sing the praises of our tax system? Do you know anyone who loves to do their taxes?

 

[antagon]

eagleseven, flat-taxes are macroeconomically inept,

That's only if you assume that the poor can grow economies faster than the rich...a Keynesian fallacy.

moreover the effective burden of tax is not flat, just the rate. i see sales tax and point of sales VAT as equally inept, and not likely a constitutional recourse of congress in the US. these are shit policies which only romania would combine. they do so out of cluelessness. the US tax system is one of the best laid in the world, and offers greater potential to support business while funding the largess than do other systems in place elsewhere.

I disagree. The US Tax system is a haphazard collection of idiotic rules and endless loopholes thrown together by a hundred Congresses all jockeying to buy the votes of their respective generation.

It is proof that you can make a flawed system functional by pouring enough money into it.

---

Do you know any tax accountants who sing the praises of our tax system? Do you know anyone who loves to do their taxes?

i think tax accountants sing opera when they are in annual demand. maybe not to our faces.

loving to do your taxes is not the sort of positive characteristic i had in mind. the system of expensibility which is unique to our tax code in the degree which it is implemented is. while this is a mass of cobbled loopholes, i dont think it's idiotic. it coerces our economy more effectively and with lesser repercussions than systems like those in much of europe, for example. i feel this role is crucial to a tax system in that it rewards investment and the displacement of government burdens within the private sector.

on progressive tax, i contend this is more fundamental to classical capitalist economics than to keynesianism. keynes likely considered it a given, as all competent tax systems work progressively, and it is advocated by pillars like adam smith a over a century prior.

because our tax system targets uninvested retained earnings, the argument that the rich can grow the economy fastest is rendered moot. those inclined are coerced to do so, while a portion of what they've not invested is put in the hands of the government.

i argue that the government which commonly invests in excess of tax revenue into the economy will 'grow the economy' to a greater degree with those same funds than if they were left to hoarding -- another classical capitalist economic concept related to uninvested retained earnings -- or luxury consumption alone.

where the government is charged with the wellbeing of its constituents and the stewardship of an economy with the sort of popular demand base (your keynes observation) capable of supporting the consumption and commerce which constitute a good business environment, it is counterproductive to tax folks out of their expendable income in an effort to salvage uninvested retained earnings from higher earners whose subsistence is substantially smaller in ratio to what they make. flat taxing would be bad economics, moreover the externalities could be even more problematic.

 

[loosecannon]

its settled i guess, house. i think you're a tax-cut-con half-wit partisan hack hypocrite (and a pussy for the neg-rep i could give a shit about) and you think i'm a democrat. ...and you don't think i can read. i could really care less if you're my fairy godmother or the tweeker trying to wash my windows for smack yesterday, so i'd leave it at that.

If you didn't care about the Neg rep, why mention it?

to put it on the table so everybody knows House is hostile?

 

[loosecannon]

heads out of asses, folks. tariffs are not good public finance policy, particularly for an economy like ours, if they ever were.

no, no, the question was what is worse, paying tariffs on foreign goods or paying 0% federal tax and FICA, along with state unemployment taxes.

yes, yes, i think tariff policy is the lamest choice of the two, hands down. dark-age mode, and a bad fit with our economy.

I am way against tariffs too. But our nation was founded upon the idea of a progressive tax, albeit tariffs on imported goods.

 

[loosecannon]

its settled i guess, house. i think you're a tax-cut-con half-wit partisan hack hypocrite (and a pussy for the neg-rep i could give a shit about) and you think i'm a democrat. ...and you don't think i can read. i could really care less if you're my fairy godmother or the tweeker trying to wash my windows for smack yesterday, so i'd leave it at that.

If you didn't care about the Neg rep, why mention it?

Don't bother him... He's busy holding up Bill Clinton's picture with one hand...

he isn't a partisan, dipshit slurper.

 

[loosecannon]

eagleseven, flat-taxes are macroeconomically inept,

That's only if you assume that the poor can grow economies faster than the rich...a Keynesian fallacy.

OMG, you are so ignorant and uninformed that you think that businesses can drive the economy regardless of demand. At least you recognize Keynes theory.

If Keynes was right about anything it was that the economy is driven by demand, not production, capacity, money supply or anything else. Which is why a strong middle class is the sole feature which propelled our economy since the 50's.

Of course times have somewhat changed since export driven economies are force fed upon us all. Nowadays demand can occur anywhere, not here at home per se, but demand is still what drives even this global economy.

 

[Dr.House]

its settled i guess, house. i think you're a tax-cut-con half-wit partisan hack hypocrite (and a pussy for the neg-rep i could give a shit about) and you think i'm a democrat. ...and you don't think i can read. i could really care less if you're my fairy godmother or the tweeker trying to wash my windows for smack yesterday, so i'd leave it at that.

If you didn't care about the Neg rep, why mention it?

to put it on the table so everybody knows House is hostile?

The horrors of neg rep...

You pansies need to grow some skin...

 

[loosecannon]

If you didn't care about the Neg rep, why mention it?

to put it on the table so everybody knows House is hostile?

The horrors of neg rep...

You pansies need to grow some skin...

grow up. Thicken your own skin, and stop feeling the need to lash out at folks who don't agree with your ignorant posts.

Or better yet, try posting something smart.

 

[Dr.House]

to put it on the table so everybody knows House is hostile?

The horrors of neg rep...

You pansies need to grow some skin...

grow up. Thicken your own skin, and stop feeling the need to lash out at folks who don't agree with your ignorant posts.

Or better yet, try posting something smart.

My skin is plenty thick - I can handle anything some keyboard commando flings on a fucking message board...

I dish out when I get...

I don't really care if people like you and Clintoon Boy agree or disagree with my posts... It would be a pretty silly world if everyone agrees with you all the time... So, that's not what I'm looking for...

 

[loosecannon]

I dis out when I get...

actually you dis out when you can't hang. Whatever.

 

[JBeukema]

heads out of asses, folks. tariffs are not good public finance policy, particularly for an economy like ours, if they ever were.

They used to do us just fine.

And they discourage economic dependence on foreign powers. A nation the size of our own should not be dependent on any other nation. In population, resources, and landmass, we might as well be Europe entirely.

What do we gain by making ourselves vulnerable to economic warfare?

 

[JBeukema]

the US tax system is one of the best laid in the world

 

[antagon]

heads out of asses, folks. tariffs are not good public finance policy, particularly for an economy like ours, if they ever were.

They used to do us just fine.

false!

And they discourage economic dependence on foreign powers. A nation the size of our own should not be dependent on any other nation. In population, resources, and landmass, we might as well be Europe entirely.

What do we gain by making ourselves vulnerable to economic warfare?

they discourage trade, commerce and consumption, the basis of our economy. they crudely protect industry, rendering them less competitive without protection. the internalized economy is a pipe dream which we've long outgrown.

you dont think that tariffs precipitate economic warfare? what part about them make us less vulnerable to trade war?

 

[wyomingpatriot]

looking back on this thread, there have been some posts that add up to nothing more than childish ignorance - taxation is evil; the government's out to rob me; and the icing on the cake... taxation is theft! if you really truly believe that, then please do us all a favor and stop driving your car on our roads; stop sending your child to our schools; find your own court to give you justice by locking away the monster who raped your daughter. finally, if youre in desperate need of medical care, for the love of god dont use our emergency room.
we have the lowest federal income tax rate of any western country. it's as if some of these people on this thread honestly believe we live in a communist, authoritarian regime. clearly they dont understand what that actually implies. i'm content with the taxes i pay. i'm grateful that there's a courageous and well-equipped army that would defend us all from a true foreign threat or invasion. i'm grateful for what infrastructure there is, that no one can deny me use of. to say that taxation is tyranny is absolute ignorance.

 

[saveliberty]

You realize that the government isn't charging you what it takes to run the place right wyomingpatriot? Your living on credit pure and simple. That deficit will be paid by future taxpayers, who have no say now in its spending. That is taxation without representation.

 

[wyomingpatriot]

you know ive heard that alot, but im hesitant to buy into it. why? because in my opinion, this ocean of anti-washington spending sentiment has no credibility. where were they when the gop started two unwinnable quagmires and drove the country into the recession making sure that 2% of the richest americans got richer?
you mentioned the debt being shouldered by future taxpayers. why isnt there the same concern among that same anti-spending camp for our depleting natural resources? what are we going to do when we run out of oil and water in 50 years? and dont just say drill here, because that doesnt solve the basic problem.
clearly what you just said saveliberty is the same old fear mongering of the tea party/gop in disguise rhetoric that youve bought into. if the gop was really concerned about future generations, they wouldnt add to the deficit with tax cuts for millionaires. hypocritical bastards, all of them.

 

[saveliberty]

You lack credibility wyomingpatriot. You are also deflecting for the most part. Your a liberal straight up.

 

[wyomingpatriot]

you see? the instant you point out how hypocritical and misinformed the tea party/gop is, you become a "liberal". thats the best they can do. im happy with my taxes, because they're lower than any other country in the western world...what more do people want? if theyre so against spending, then give back every dime of the tax cuts given by the stimulus. if youre right that the government isnt charging me what it costs to run the place, then back it up, and explain why you weren't saying that and taking to the streets with a placard five years ago.