Does the military create conservatives?

[gallantwarrior]

I have rendered no judgement, merely made an observation...

 

[American Horse]

I enlisted in 1960 having been raised in a family of Democrats who loved Roosevelt and Truman so close we were to the Great Depression. There is in the military, particularly for those who volunteer, a strong sense of defending (it's in the oath) and preserving, conservative tenets. The military is as close as one can come to experiencing a meritocracy, that one will reap what one sows, that good work and self improvement will not go unrecognized. Also, for the willing, responsibilities will be piled on. These all tend to imbue conservative thinking and a bias for competition.

It seems redundant to say it but the main mind set of conservative philosophy is to "conserve, to save, to hold against change", particularly radical change. A very large part of the education that is in the training, a very important part is history, missions, and traditions" as standards for future actions. They even call it "indoctrination."

I went in a democrat and came out after four years in the USMC as a conservative first, and a Republican second.

 

[gallantwarrior]

I enlisted in 1960 having been raised in a family of Democrats who loved Roosevelt and Truman so close we were to the Great Depression. There is in the military, particularly for those who volunteer, a strong sense of defending (it's in the oath) and preserving, conservative tenets. The military is as close as one can come to experiencing a meritocracy, that one will reap what one sows, that good work and self improvement will not go unrecognized. Also, for the willing, responsibilities will be piled on. These all tend to imbue conservative spirit.

It seems redundant to say it but the main mind set of conservative philosophy is to "conserve, to save, to hold against radical change, and part of the education, a very important part is history, missions, and traditions" as standards for future actions. I went in a democrat and came out after four years in the USMC as a conservative first and a Republican second.

Bless you for your service!

 

[Dr Grump]

I enlisted in 1960 having been raised in a family of Democrats who loved Roosevelt and Truman so close we were to the Great Depression. There is in the military, particularly for those who volunteer, a strong sense of defending (it's in the oath) and preserving, conservative tenets. The military is as close as one can come to experiencing a meritocracy, that one will reap what one sows, that good work and self improvement will not go unrecognized. Also, for the willing, responsibilities will be piled on. These all tend to imbue conservative spirit.

It seems redundant to say it but the main mind set of conservative philosophy is to "conserve, to save, to hold against radical change, and part of the education, a very important part is history, missions, and traditions" as standards for future actions. I went in a democrat and came out after four years in the USMC as a conservative first and a Republican second.

The bolded part. I just posted on another thread that is one of the main problems with being a conservative.

 

[namvet]

With the military personnel and ex-military voting in such large percentages as conservatives is it something that is created by training or experiences that causes this outlook on life? I personally think it is both in training where you are taught honor, responsibility, discipline, and how to push yourself both physically and mentally. In many cases it is also the experiences you recieve from other countries where we are stationed or where we do battle. We see how these views from the left turn out as there are so many failing countries in the world today with their type of government.

I personally think it is both in training where you are taught honor, responsibility, discipline, and how to push yourself both physically and mentally.

helping yourself runs contrary to the liberal brain

 

[SFC Ollie]

Total poppycock..

If you want to go down that road I'll generalise too. I would say a lot of people who join the military are gung ho, don't have many other options and are not the brightest...

And a quick check of the demographics would prove you wrong....

Wel, if you have 'em, post 'em....

It's not difficult to find........... You can search for official numbers or for polls....
But generally Military troops start out better educated than their civilian counterparts. Just for a start.

• Proportionately more servicemembers than employed persons in the
U.S. population aged 18 and older had earned a high school diploma or
its equivalent (see table 22).
• Four percent of AC servicemembers and 7 percent of RC
servicemembers did not have a high school diploma or its equivalent.
• In contrast, 10 percent of employed persons in the U.S. population
aged 18 and older did not have a high school diploma or its
equivalent.
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05952.pdf

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Does the military create conservatives?

With the military personnel and ex-military voting in such large percentages as conservatives is it something that is created by training or experiences that causes this outlook on life? I personally think it is both in training where you are taught honor, responsibility, discipline, and how to push yourself both physically and mentally. In many cases it is also the experiences you recieve from other countries where we are stationed or where we do battle. We see how these views from the left turn out as there are so many failing countries in the world today with their type of government.

Description of Confusing Cause and Effect

Confusing Cause and Effect is a fallacy that has the following general form:

A and B regularly occur together.
Therefore A is the cause of B.
This fallacy requires that there is not, in fact, a common cause that actually causes both A and B.

This fallacy is committed when a person assumes that one event must cause another just because the events occur together. More formally, this fallacy involves drawing the conclusion that A is the cause of B simply because A and B are in regular conjunction (and there is not a common cause that is actually the cause of A and B). The mistake being made is that the causal conclusion is being drawn without adequate justification.

Fallacy: Confusing Cause and Effect

 

[SFC Ollie]

Ah yes, when you cannot dazzle them with brilliance ; Baffle them with Bullshit.......

 

[Dr Grump]

And a quick check of the demographics would prove you wrong....

Wel, if you have 'em, post 'em....

It's not difficult to find........... You can search for official numbers or for polls....
But generally Military troops start out better educated than their civilian counterparts. Just for a start.

• Proportionately more servicemembers than employed persons in the
U.S. population aged 18 and older had earned a high school diploma or
its equivalent (see table 22).
• Four percent of AC servicemembers and 7 percent of RC
servicemembers did not have a high school diploma or its equivalent.
• In contrast, 10 percent of employed persons in the U.S. population
aged 18 and older did not have a high school diploma or its
equivalent.
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05952.pdf

What do you make of this remark from the report:

"We compared the education levels of servicemembers to those of the entire
U.S. population and found that proportionately fewer service members have
attended college than in the U.S. population."

 

[American Horse]

I enlisted in 1960 having been raised in a family of Democrats who loved Roosevelt and Truman so close we were to the Great Depression. There is in the military, particularly for those who volunteer, a strong sense of defending (it's in the oath) and preserving, conservative tenets. The military is as close as one can come to experiencing a meritocracy, that one will reap what one sows, that good work and self improvement will not go unrecognized. Also, for the willing, responsibilities will be piled on. These all tend to imbue conservative spirit.

It seems redundant to say it but the main mind set of conservative philosophy is to "conserve, to save, to hold against radical change, and part of the education, a very important part is history, missions, and traditions" as standards for future actions. I went in a democrat and came out after four years in the USMC as a conservative first and a Republican second.

The bolded part. I just posted on another thread that is one of the main problems with being a conservative.

(So give us a link)
This is the intrinsic difference between liberalism and conservatism from the first political factions (proto-parties) of the first century Roman Republic. I believe that most people with a conservative bent willingly accept well thought out change, after the precept of "first do no harm" is applied to proposals for it. But liberalism is in a constant frenetic state of desire for change regardless of the harm that comes with any good that results, because if they can further their power base, the unstated implication is that if given a free hand "they will fix it" later, but only if they be kept in power.

Conservative philosophy leans towards holistic health for the body politic, and liberal ideology leans toward radical surgery as a quick fix: change at any cost. Witness today a radical new paradigm for energy development that abandons many proven sources and applications, they being substituted with unproven schemes, even while millions go unemployed as victims of a process of radical change.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Wel, if you have 'em, post 'em....

It's not difficult to find........... You can search for official numbers or for polls....
But generally Military troops start out better educated than their civilian counterparts. Just for a start.

• Proportionately more servicemembers than employed persons in the
U.S. population aged 18 and older had earned a high school diploma or
its equivalent (see table 22).
• Four percent of AC servicemembers and 7 percent of RC
servicemembers did not have a high school diploma or its equivalent.
• In contrast, 10 percent of employed persons in the U.S. population
aged 18 and older did not have a high school diploma or its
equivalent.
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05952.pdf

What do you make of this remark from the report:

"We compared the education levels of servicemembers to those of the entire
U.S. population and found that proportionately fewer service members have
attended college than in the U.S. population."

I am surprised at that. But with a bit of common sense........

Think of the average age of the US population over 18. And the average age of the Military.... Now add into that the multiple deployments for the military, then ask yourself when have they had time? What would be interesting would be if there was a followup of veterans and the percentage that went on to college.... During times of no deployments we pushed civilian education, in fact if you don't show that you are pursuing your education chances are that you will not get the promotions...

 

[Mr. President]

Hell yeah the military creates conservatives. Makes us budget our money and if we owe too many people too much makes us go to financial advisers and set up payment plans in the form of automatic withdrawals until a time where we are fiscally responsible enough to take care of our own debts. Teaches us to prioritize needs over wants. Allows us to see that freedom comes at the price of a sacrifice deeper than just ones life. But watching your brother fall and his last request is finish the Job. Yeah The military creates conservatives. Especially when we work hard defending freedom and come home to liberals saying the war isn't worth it. Or when we see people protesting military funerals and liberals defend their right disrespect the funeral of a man who died serving his country. Ahh but if the military were to boycott the service due to the repeal of don't ask don't tell which was in the contract of every service member at the time of joining ohhh the liberals would be all over that. So yeah by default most soldiers have a conservative mindset not because we have seen freedom but because we have seen what persecution looks like and what oppression really is.

 

[Salt Jones]

I was conservative before I entered and served 22 years in the Military. Conservative or liberal is not something the military teaches you. It's just that more conservatives serve because of the way they feel about the military and the country. They would rather give of themselves than to take from someone else.....

Liberals are pretty much the exact opposite.....

Yet I served 20 years and was liberal when I joined and liberal when I retired. A lot of liberals keep quiet about their politics, because they are outnumbered. I met a lot of liberal officers who hid their politics for fear of pissing off a conservative CO. In early 2004, I had a commanding officer come into a meeting and give a pep talk about voting for Bush. He asked all those voting for Bush to raise their hands. I didn't because I had nothing to fear I was retiring and US Code Title 10 had kicked in for me, but a lot of "liberals" did raise their hands.

 

[007]

I'll be real honest here, and say that I kind of thought of myself as sort of a liberal while in the military, but by the time I got out after 8 years I'd pretty much swung over to the conservative side. I can't put my finger on why, but I do think it was the military that did it.

 

[Salt Jones]

Hell yeah the military creates conservatives. Makes us budget our money and if we owe too many people too much makes us go to financial advisers and set up payment plans in the form of automatic withdrawals until a time where we are fiscally responsible enough to take care of our own debts. Teaches us to prioritize needs over wants. Allows us to see that freedom comes at the price of a sacrifice deeper than just ones life. But watching your brother fall and his last request is finish the Job. Yeah The military creates conservatives. Especially when we work hard defending freedom and come home to liberals saying the war isn't worth it. Or when we see people protesting military funerals and liberals defend their right disrespect the funeral of a man who died serving his country. Ahh but if the military were to boycott the service due to the repeal of don't ask don't tell which was in the contract of every service member at the time of joining ohhh the liberals would be all over that. So yeah by default most soldiers have a conservative mindset not because we have seen freedom but because we have seen what persecution looks like and what oppression really is.

Then why are there so many in debt, spouse abusing, alcohol abusing military members?

Save the Pvt. Ryan crap for show and tell day at the elementary school. Most military people are conservative, because they were conservative before they joined. The vast majority of blacks and Hispanics who enter the military are liberal on the day they enter and they leave military service just as liberal or more so.

 

[Mr. President]

Hell yeah the military creates conservatives. Makes us budget our money and if we owe too many people too much makes us go to financial advisers and set up payment plans in the form of automatic withdrawals until a time where we are fiscally responsible enough to take care of our own debts. Teaches us to prioritize needs over wants. Allows us to see that freedom comes at the price of a sacrifice deeper than just ones life. But watching your brother fall and his last request is finish the Job. Yeah The military creates conservatives. Especially when we work hard defending freedom and come home to liberals saying the war isn't worth it. Or when we see people protesting military funerals and liberals defend their right disrespect the funeral of a man who died serving his country. Ahh but if the military were to boycott the service due to the repeal of don't ask don't tell which was in the contract of every service member at the time of joining ohhh the liberals would be all over that. So yeah by default most soldiers have a conservative mindset not because we have seen freedom but because we have seen what persecution looks like and what oppression really is.

Then why are there so many in debt, spouse abusing, alcohol abusing military members?

Save the Pvt. Ryan crap for show and tell day at the elementary school. Most military people are conservative, because they were conservative before they joined. The vast majority of blacks and Hispanics who enter the military are liberal on the day they enter and they leave military service just as liberal or more so.

We lowered the standard and liberals got in.

 

[SFC Ollie]

I was conservative before I entered and served 22 years in the Military. Conservative or liberal is not something the military teaches you. It's just that more conservatives serve because of the way they feel about the military and the country. They would rather give of themselves than to take from someone else.....

Liberals are pretty much the exact opposite.....

Yet I served 20 years and was liberal when I joined and liberal when I retired. A lot of liberals keep quiet about their politics, because they are outnumbered. I met a lot of liberal officers who hid their politics for fear of pissing off a conservative CO. In early 2004, I had a commanding officer come into a meeting and give a pep talk about voting for Bush. He asked all those voting for Bush to raise their hands. I didn't because I had nothing to fear I was retiring and US Code Title 10 had kicked in for me, but a lot of "liberals" did raise their hands.

Bullshit. No Officer in their right mind ever asked any troop who they were voting for.

We had voting assistance officers and voting assistance NCO's of which I was one of. and we were not to discuss the politics with a troop. It is against the UCMJ for anyone on active duty to endorse any political party or candidate while it could be perceived they are acting in an official capacity.

You always have your stories though don't you..... How do you expect to get away with such blatant lies?

 

[Salt Jones]

Hell yeah the military creates conservatives. Makes us budget our money and if we owe too many people too much makes us go to financial advisers and set up payment plans in the form of automatic withdrawals until a time where we are fiscally responsible enough to take care of our own debts. Teaches us to prioritize needs over wants. Allows us to see that freedom comes at the price of a sacrifice deeper than just ones life. But watching your brother fall and his last request is finish the Job. Yeah The military creates conservatives. Especially when we work hard defending freedom and come home to liberals saying the war isn't worth it. Or when we see people protesting military funerals and liberals defend their right disrespect the funeral of a man who died serving his country. Ahh but if the military were to boycott the service due to the repeal of don't ask don't tell which was in the contract of every service member at the time of joining ohhh the liberals would be all over that. So yeah by default most soldiers have a conservative mindset not because we have seen freedom but because we have seen what persecution looks like and what oppression really is.

Then why are there so many in debt, spouse abusing, alcohol abusing military members?

Save the Pvt. Ryan crap for show and tell day at the elementary school. Most military people are conservative, because they were conservative before they joined. The vast majority of blacks and Hispanics who enter the military are liberal on the day they enter and they leave military service just as liberal or more so.

We lowered the standard and liberals got in.

Yeah that's what happened.

You can't dispute my post so you come up with some silly comment, very weak.

 

[Dr Grump]

I enlisted in 1960 having been raised in a family of Democrats who loved Roosevelt and Truman so close we were to the Great Depression. There is in the military, particularly for those who volunteer, a strong sense of defending (it's in the oath) and preserving, conservative tenets. The military is as close as one can come to experiencing a meritocracy, that one will reap what one sows, that good work and self improvement will not go unrecognized. Also, for the willing, responsibilities will be piled on. These all tend to imbue conservative spirit.

It seems redundant to say it but the main mind set of conservative philosophy is to "conserve, to save, to hold against radical change, and part of the education, a very important part is history, missions, and traditions" as standards for future actions. I went in a democrat and came out after four years in the USMC as a conservative first and a Republican second.

The bolded part. I just posted on another thread that is one of the main problems with being a conservative.

(So give us a link)
This is the intrinsic difference between liberalism and conservatism from the first political factions (proto-parties) of the first century Roman Republic. I believe that most people with a conservative bent willingly accept well thought out change, after the precept of "first do no harm" is applied to proposals for it. But liberalism is in a constant frenetic state of desire for change regardless of the harm that comes with any good that results, because if they can further their power base, the unstated implication is that if given a free hand "they will fix it" later, but only if they be kept in power.

Conservative philosophy leans towards holistic health for the body politic, and liberal ideology leans toward radical surgery as a quick fix: change at any cost. Witness today a radical new paradigm for energy development that abandons many proven sources and applications, they being substituted with unproven schemes, even while millions go unemployed as victims of a process of radical change.

I vehemently disagree with you on that. It wasn't conservatives who got women the vote, vaccines up and running, ended slavery, or allowed non land owners to vote. The people who tried to stop all of the those things going ahead were overwhelmingly conservatives. And today it is gay rights and abortion where the conservatives want to keep things as they are. ie: conserve them.

If you would like to list some of these "well thought out" policies where conservatives have changed things, please list them.

 

[Salt Jones]

I was conservative before I entered and served 22 years in the Military. Conservative or liberal is not something the military teaches you. It's just that more conservatives serve because of the way they feel about the military and the country. They would rather give of themselves than to take from someone else.....

Liberals are pretty much the exact opposite.....

Yet I served 20 years and was liberal when I joined and liberal when I retired. A lot of liberals keep quiet about their politics, because they are outnumbered. I met a lot of liberal officers who hid their politics for fear of pissing off a conservative CO. In early 2004, I had a commanding officer come into a meeting and give a pep talk about voting for Bush. He asked all those voting for Bush to raise their hands. I didn't because I had nothing to fear I was retiring and US Code Title 10 had kicked in for me, but a lot of "liberals" did raise their hands.

Bullshit. No Officer in their right mind ever asked any troop who they were voting for.

We had voting assistance officers and voting assistance NCO's of which I was one of. and we were not to discuss the politics with a troop. It is against the UCMJ for anyone on active duty to endorse any political party or candidate while it could be perceived they are acting in an official capacity.

You always have your stories though don't you..... How do you expect to get away with such blatant lies?

Because it's not a lie. He stood in the morning maintenance meeting, for the squadron I was in at the time, and asked that question.

Fraternization, adultery, theft, etc are also against the UCMJ yet they happen all the time. None of the stories I have told about my military experiences have been a lie. Why would I lie when anyone who has spent anytime in the military knows that it is more of a soap opera/reality show then anything ever put on TV.