Does the military create conservatives?

[American Horse]

The bolded part. I just posted on another thread that is one of the main problems with being a conservative.

(So give us a link)
This is the intrinsic difference between liberalism and conservatism from the first political factions (proto-parties) of the first century Roman Republic. I believe that most people with a conservative bent willingly accept well thought out change, after the precept of "first do no harm" is applied to proposals for it. But liberalism is in a constant frenetic state of desire for change regardless of the harm that comes with any good that results, because if they can further their power base, the unstated implication is that if given a free hand "they will fix it" later, but only if they be kept in power.

Conservative philosophy leans towards holistic health for the body politic, and liberal ideology leans toward radical surgery as a quick fix: change at any cost. Witness today a radical new paradigm for energy development that abandons many proven sources and applications, they being substituted with unproven schemes, even while millions go unemployed as victims of a process of radical change.

I vehemently disagree with you on that. It wasn't conservatives who got women the vote, vaccines up and running, ended slavery, or allowed non land owners to vote. The people who tried to stop all of the those things going ahead were overwhelmingly conservatives. And today it is gay rights and abortion where the conservatives want to keep things as they are. ie: conserve them.

If you would like to list some of these "well thought out" policies where conservatives have changed things, please list them.

I won't argue about the source of some of the change, but what I said is that conservatives accept sound change and resist radical poorly conceived change. Did the Republicans fight against woman suffrage? Did the Republicans fight against the Civil Rights Act of 1964? Did the Republicans fight against freedom for the black man in America? The Fifteenth Amendment was pushed by the Republican Party, and was opposed by the Ds.

Edit: I don't locate a tally of votes for the house, but for the 19th amendment in the Senate the votes were AY: Rs 36, Ds 20; NAY: Rs 8 Ds 17 sending it to the states.

 

[Wiseacre]

I think military training and experience makes a person more self reliant. They've got more self esteem and are less likely to approve of handouts or redistribution of wealth. They appreciate the freedoms we have, and are not that trusting in gov't leadership. A smaller, less intrusive gov't with less regs is just fine with them. These things and others pushes them to the right, at least on some issues.

 

[geauxtohell]

Does the military create conservatives?

With the military personnel and ex-military voting in such large percentages as conservatives is it something that is created by training or experiences that causes this outlook on life? I personally think it is both in training where you are taught honor, responsibility, discipline, and how to push yourself both physically and mentally. In many cases it is also the experiences you recieve from other countries where we are stationed or where we do battle. We see how these views from the left turn out as there are so many failing countries in the world today with their type of government.

Description of Confusing Cause and Effect

Confusing Cause and Effect is a fallacy that has the following general form:

A and B regularly occur together.
Therefore A is the cause of B.
This fallacy requires that there is not, in fact, a common cause that actually causes both A and B.

This fallacy is committed when a person assumes that one event must cause another just because the events occur together. More formally, this fallacy involves drawing the conclusion that A is the cause of B simply because A and B are in regular conjunction (and there is not a common cause that is actually the cause of A and B). The mistake being made is that the causal conclusion is being drawn without adequate justification.

Fallacy: Confusing Cause and Effect

The guys in my line platoon were paradigms of honor and responsibility.

They responsibly beat the living shit out of the MPs who broke up their beach party. I remember having to go and spring them all from the little MP castle on Schofield. I wish I could say I was disappointed in them, but our base MPs tended to be dicks (not the combat guys) who tended to abuse their power. A fricking PVT tried to arrest one of my SGTs on gate duty because he had the gall to make him stop (he wasn't responding) at the gate. I had some nice words with that young gentleman. Anyways, I digress.

Yep, they were upstanding members of society. You could certainly trust your *adult aged* daughter in the barracks.

Not to disparage them. They were great and I loved serving with them. However, I find the glorification of the military that old geezers tend to do a little bit weird.

Most of my guys could have given a shit about politics.

 

[AquaAthena]

I have to agree with you, Ollie. More conservatives would serve voluntarily than others.

Conservatives are, in general, much more patriotic than liberals. They are loyal to their flag, values, and country and are willing to put their lives at risk, to fight for it.

 

[Ropey]

I have to agree with you, Ollie. More conservatives would serve voluntarily than others.

Conservatives are, in general, much more patriotic than liberals. They are loyal to their flag, values, and country and are willing to put their lives at risk, to fight for it.

This Canadian believes so as well.

 

[Mr. President]

Then why are there so many in debt, spouse abusing, alcohol abusing military members?

Save the Pvt. Ryan crap for show and tell day at the elementary school. Most military people are conservative, because they were conservative before they joined. The vast majority of blacks and Hispanics who enter the military are liberal on the day they enter and they leave military service just as liberal or more so.

We lowered the standard and liberals got in.

Yeah that's what happened.

You can't dispute my post so you come up with some silly comment, very weak.

Not at all your perpetual saltiness. I had to go on a mission and only had time for a quick one liner. The vast majority of blacks and hispanics who enter the military are liberal???? fact check maybe? You are guessing kind of hard there since Im black and in the military and a conservative and many of my black military friends are also conservative. Now can we see stats alcohol, spousal abuse and debt claims?????

 

[editec]

I'm one of those Viet Nam/draftee era vets myself.

Me, too.

I don't doubt most of the kids in today's all volunteer force military are more conservative that the average population.

After all, they want the FEDERAL GOVERMNET to continue paying them just as it has been doing.

They want to CONSERVE their taxpayer-paid rice bowls.

Military personnel are probably mostly STATISTS, as our radical right wingers on this board would call them

 

[old navy]

I'm one of those Viet Nam/draftee era vets myself.

Me, too.

I don't doubt most of the kids in today's all volunteer force military are more conservative that the average population.

After all, they want the FEDERAL GOVERMNET to continue paying them just as it has been doing.

They want to CONSERVE their taxpayer-paid rice bowls.

Military personnel are probably mostly STATISTS, as our radical right wingers on this board would call them

Your time in the military really must have sucked.

 

[daveman]

Ignorance and fear creates conservatives. I thought it was obvious.

Coming from an ignorant and fearful individual such as yourself, your post is meaningless.

 

[daveman]

I was conservative before I entered and served 22 years in the Military. Conservative or liberal is not something the military teaches you. It's just that more conservatives serve because of the way they feel about the military and the country. They would rather give of themselves than to take from someone else.....

Liberals are pretty much the exact opposite.....

Total poppycock..

If you want to go down that road I'll generalise too. I would say a lot of people who join the military are gung ho, don't have many other options and are not the brightest...

And you'd be wrong.

 

[Douger]

No. It creates meatheads too stupid to realize they're living within a truly communist organization.
Military Benefits

 

[daveman]

I'm one of those Viet Nam/draftee era vets myself.

Me, too.

I don't doubt most of the kids in today's all volunteer force military are more conservative that the average population.

After all, they want the FEDERAL GOVERMNET to continue paying them just as it has been doing.

They want to CONSERVE their taxpayer-paid rice bowls.

Military personnel are probably mostly STATISTS, as our radical right wingers on this board would call them

Wrong. But then, that's your default mode.

 

[daveman]

No. It creates meatheads too stupid to realize they're living within a truly communist organization.
Military Benefits

Poor Douger, eaten up with a dissatisfaction with his poop-scooping life, recognizing his inability and unwillingness to serve or even recognize anything higher than himself; one of the people John Stuart Mill was talking about:

“War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things, the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse. When a people are used as mere human instruments for firing cannon or thrusting bayonets, in the service and for the selfish purposes of a master, such war degrades a people. A war to protect other human beings against tyrannical injustice; a war to give victory to their own ideas of right and good, and which is their own war, carried on for an honest purpose by their free choice, — is often the means of their regeneration. A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.”

 

[bornright]

Does the military create conservatives?

With the military personnel and ex-military voting in such large percentages as conservatives is it something that is created by training or experiences that causes this outlook on life? I personally think it is both in training where you are taught honor, responsibility, discipline, and how to push yourself both physically and mentally. In many cases it is also the experiences you recieve from other countries where we are stationed or where we do battle. We see how these views from the left turn out as there are so many failing countries in the world today with their type of government.

Description of Confusing Cause and Effect

Confusing Cause and Effect is a fallacy that has the following general form:

A and B regularly occur together.
Therefore A is the cause of B.
This fallacy requires that there is not, in fact, a common cause that actually causes both A and B.

This fallacy is committed when a person assumes that one event must cause another just because the events occur together. More formally, this fallacy involves drawing the conclusion that A is the cause of B simply because A and B are in regular conjunction (and there is not a common cause that is actually the cause of A and B). The mistake being made is that the causal conclusion is being drawn without adequate justification.

Fallacy: Confusing Cause and Effect

The guys in my line platoon were paradigms of honor and responsibility.

They responsibly beat the living shit out of the MPs who broke up their beach party. I remember having to go and spring them all from the little MP castle on Schofield. I wish I could say I was disappointed in them, but our base MPs tended to be dicks (not the combat guys) who tended to abuse their power. A fricking PVT tried to arrest one of my SGTs on gate duty because he had the gall to make him stop (he wasn't responding) at the gate. I had some nice words with that young gentleman. Anyways, I digress.

Yep, they were upstanding members of society. You could certainly trust your *adult aged* daughter in the barracks.

Not to disparage them. They were great and I loved serving with them. However, I find the glorification of the military that old geezers tend to do a little bit weird.

Most of my guys could have given a shit about politics.

I have no idea what branch of military or what unit you were in as I never witnessed such things. What I saw from the military was that we were more mature than the civilians of the same age group. We drank and we liked adult aged females same as the equal aged civilians.

As a Vietnam vet Marine I am sure you would think of me as an old geezer. I know that my military experience made me a better dad, a better provider for my family, a better friend, a better student when I went back to college, and over all a better citizen than I would have been without the experiences. I wish you could have recieved the same education in life. We can never have too many conservatives in this country.

 

[jillian]

I have to agree with you, Ollie. More conservatives would serve voluntarily than others.

Conservatives are, in general, much more patriotic than liberals. They are loyal to their flag, values, and country and are willing to put their lives at risk, to fight for it.

This Canadian believes so as well.

I'll be sure to tell that to all the liberal jews in my family who served in the armed forces. i guess they didn't get the memo.

of course, you could say that more "liberal" people are more highly educated and don't need the military as a career path.

just saying

 

[Dr Grump]

I have to agree with you, Ollie. More conservatives would serve voluntarily than others.

Conservatives are, in general, much more patriotic than liberals. They are loyal to their flag, values, and country and are willing to put their lives at risk, to fight for it.

You write some dumb shit sometimes...but most neocon whackjobs do.....

 

[jillian]

I have to agree with you, Ollie. More conservatives would serve voluntarily than others.

Conservatives are, in general, much more patriotic than liberals. They are loyal to their flag, values, and country and are willing to put their lives at risk, to fight for it.

You write some dumb shit sometimes...but most neocon whackjobs do.....

they need to make things up to feel better about themselves. apparently, they have no self-esteem without trying to actively diminish everyone who doesn't agree with their idiocy.

 

[SFC Ollie]

This is from the Army Times Poll Dec 07.... Couldn't find one more up to date.....

And it's not a real scientific poll, But it gives an Idea.....At least from 4 years back.... Can't guess how 4 years would change things.....


1) How would you describe your political views?
Very conservative
8.8%

Conservative
37%
Moderate
38.7%

Liberal
7%
Very liberal
1.4%

Decline to answer
7.1%


2) In politics today, do you consider yourself a:
Democrat
14.4%

Independent
21.1%

Libertarian
3.1%

Republican
48.9%

Other
4%

Decline to answer
8.5%

 

[Sunshine]

I was conservative before I entered and served 22 years in the Military. Conservative or liberal is not something the military teaches you. It's just that more conservatives serve because of the way they feel about the military and the country. They would rather give of themselves than to take from someone else.....

Liberals are pretty much the exact opposite.....

Total poppycock..

If you want to go down that road I'll generalise too. I would say a lot of people who join the military are gung ho, don't have many other options and are not the brightest...

Too bad that too many fail to recognize that many who join do have other options. I hold three degrees but never considered military service beneath me. As a matter of fact, I think compulsory service would be a major improvement for many youngsters.

My original ancestor in this country was an esquire and a colonel in the military. In colonial times, those things were not mutually exclusive.

 

[Sunshine]

Does the military create conservatives?

With the military personnel and ex-military voting in such large percentages as conservatives is it something that is created by training or experiences that causes this outlook on life? I personally think it is both in training where you are taught honor, responsibility, discipline, and how to push yourself both physically and mentally. In many cases it is also the experiences you recieve from other countries where we are stationed or where we do battle. We see how these views from the left turn out as there are so many failing countries in the world today with their type of government.

Description of Confusing Cause and Effect

Confusing Cause and Effect is a fallacy that has the following general form:

A and B regularly occur together.
Therefore A is the cause of B.
This fallacy requires that there is not, in fact, a common cause that actually causes both A and B.

This fallacy is committed when a person assumes that one event must cause another just because the events occur together. More formally, this fallacy involves drawing the conclusion that A is the cause of B simply because A and B are in regular conjunction (and there is not a common cause that is actually the cause of A and B). The mistake being made is that the causal conclusion is being drawn without adequate justification.

Fallacy: Confusing Cause and Effect

The guys in my line platoon were paradigms of honor and responsibility.

They responsibly beat the living shit out of the MPs who broke up their beach party. I remember having to go and spring them all from the little MP castle on Schofield. I wish I could say I was disappointed in them, but our base MPs tended to be dicks (not the combat guys) who tended to abuse their power. A fricking PVT tried to arrest one of my SGTs on gate duty because he had the gall to make him stop (he wasn't responding) at the gate. I had some nice words with that young gentleman. Anyways, I digress.

Yep, they were upstanding members of society. You could certainly trust your *adult aged* daughter in the barracks.

Not to disparage them. They were great and I loved serving with them. However, I find the glorification of the military that old geezers tend to do a little bit weird.

Most of my guys could have given a shit about politics.

Times were different. Ordinary people had not been places. The military gave many of them the opportunity to go places they would never have gone otherwise.

How ya gonna keep em down on the farm after they've seen Paree?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYflT3h6lCQ]Arthur Fields - How Ya Gonna Keep'em Down On The Farm, 1919 - YouTube[/ame]