Does the federal government have the power to control immigration?

[mudwhistle]

Here is an interesting compromise that I think will make open-borders people and anti-illegal immigration people equally happy. The solution lies in the correct interpretation of the constitution that says the federal government has the power to establlish naturalization rules. Naturalization rules are not the same as immigration because naturalization is the process at which someone becomes a citizen of the United States while immigration is the movement of people across national borders. This is a clear distinction that says that the power to control immigration lies with each state so a state like Arizona can declare no more immigrants while California can allow as many people as they want simply because the power to control immigration belongs to each state and not to the federal government. Each state can then have its own immigration policy (not naturalization policy since that belongs in the federal government). This should make everyone happy.

Then we could start a Visa program so that all of the folks that California let's in can't come into Arizona.

Immigration doesn't mean citizenship. You can move here and live here on a Visa if you want to work here or attend school. You don't have to be a citizen.

Naturalization is the process of becoming a citizen. They are to related terms and they both fall under federal authority. But states are allowed to make laws that insure the enforcement of those laws.....especially when the Federals won't enforce those laws themselves.

 

[ihopehefails]

Which is why I recomend that that state not pay for non-naturalized residents but since it will be paying for its own open border policy then it suffers the consequences of that bad policy.

So why have such a policy in the first place? This entire thread makes no sense then.

Also, if the state's not paying for non-naturalized residents in the form of any sort of benefits, then why should those people be paying those types of taxes?

You were better off not making this thread.

These are both question I ask myself as well. Why are we doing these policies?

They pay those taxes because taxes are not obliged to citizens alone because non-citizens pay a import tax for any country they enter.

 

[Big Black Dog]

Is it ok to steal bread, or anything else, just because you're unemployed?

Is it against the law to steal bread if your family is starving and you're homeless? Yes.

Is it morally wrong? That's debatable.

You're not taking the motivations of illegal immigrants into mind. Also, the process of becoming a legal citizen of this country or even getting a green card is backlogged horribly if I remember reading correctly.

Regardless of the motivations, be it to deliver drugs, guns, other illegal aliens, seek gainful employment, commit a crime, or whatever, it is still a crime to enter the country illegally. It's a Federal crime. This problem needs to be corrected or it's going to continue to get out of hand until it becomes very ugly. The Federal government needs to begin to take responsibility for protecting our borders and stop trying to be politically correct in dealing with minority criminal illegal aliens.

 

[Modbert]

These are both question I ask myself as well. Why are we doing these policies?

They pay those taxes because taxes are not obliged to citizens alone because non-citizens pay a import tax for any country they enter.

Except we don't have any such policies in the first place. Also, illegal immigrants in this country who work do pay taxes in some form.

 

[Modbert]

Regardless of the motivations, be it to deliver drugs, guns, other illegal aliens, seek gainful employment, commit a crime, or whatever, it is still a crime to enter the country illegally. It's a Federal crime. This problem needs to be corrected or it's going to continue to get out of hand until it becomes very ugly. The Federal government needs to begin to take responsibility for protecting our borders and stop trying to be politically correct in dealing with minority criminal illegal aliens.

The Federal Government needs to do a lot of things. Revamping their system of being able to get into this country more efficiently. Plus, punish the employers who are giving these jobs in the first place.

If your family is in dirt poor poverty, and the land of opportunity is right next door, why would you not move there?

I agree that legally, it's wrong to enter this country. However, the system is broken, and placing the blame solely on the immigrants that you seem to be doing is misguided.

 

[ihopehefails]

These are both question I ask myself as well. Why are we doing these policies?

They pay those taxes because taxes are not obliged to citizens alone because non-citizens pay a import tax for any country they enter.

Except we don't have any such policies in the first place. Also, illegal immigrants in this country who work do pay taxes in some form.

We have an open border policy because the federal government refuses to enforce the laws it has written. It then goes out an pays for those people's welfare. Why do we have such a policy? I would think that it if is a bad idea on the state level then it should such be 50 times worse on the federal level.

 

[Modbert]

We have an open border policy because the federal government refuses to enforce the laws it has written. It then goes out an pays for those people's welfare. Why do we have such a policy? I would think that it if is a bad idea on the state level then it should such 50 times more on the federal level.

You are a idiot, plain and simple. We have nothing like a system that you described originally. Go to the Wizard of Oz and get a brain, please.

 

[WillowTree]

Do you want to add something intelligent to the conversation? Actually..can you add something intelligent to any conversation?

To consider this an conversation would be saying that what you're saying isn't complete bullshit in the first place.

Just consider this cold hard fact next time before making a similar thread: The Federal Government gives how much aid to states? Think about that.

oh bullshit, the Federal Gov. wouldn't have a damn dime to give anybody,, it's our damn money in the first place.. We hire the Gov. not the other way around moron.

 

[Againsheila]

Is it ok to steal bread, or anything else, just because you're unemployed?

Is it against the law to steal bread if your family is starving and you're homeless? Yes.

Is it morally wrong? That's debatable.

You're not taking the motivations of illegal immigrants into mind. Also, the process of becoming a legal citizen of this country or even getting a green card is backlogged horribly if I remember reading correctly.

The thing is, it's not necessary in our society today. We have a foodbank. We have foodstamps. We have free dinners 3 different days a week at 3 different churches in our city. We have free bagged lunches mon-thur at one church and free hot lunches everyday of the week at another church.

Why would you steal what you can get for free?

 

[Modbert]

The thing is, it's not necessary in our society today. We have a foodbank. We have foodstamps. We have free dinners 3 different days a week at 3 different churches in our city. We have free bagged lunches mon-thur at one church and free hot lunches everyday of the week at another church.

Why would you steal what you can get for free?

Not everyone knows about these things either, that's one of the main problems. However, not everyone has such chances in their area.

 

[WillowTree]

The thing is, it's not necessary in our society today. We have a foodbank. We have foodstamps. We have free dinners 3 different days a week at 3 different churches in our city. We have free bagged lunches mon-thur at one church and free hot lunches everyday of the week at another church.

Why would you steal what you can get for free?

Not everyone knows about these things either, that's one of the main problems. However, not everyone has such chances in their area.

do like the mexicans do then, draw them maps to the nearest grocery store.. show em how to break and enter and steal that's the ticket you go ModMORON..

 

[Modbert]

do like the mexicans do then, draw them maps to the nearest grocery store.. show em how to break and enter and steal that's the ticket you go ModMORON..

So wait. Mexicans draw maps to the nearest grocery store, and then break into them and steal from them?

 

[WillowTree]

do like the mexicans do then, draw them maps to the nearest grocery store.. show em how to break and enter and steal that's the ticket you go ModMORON..

So wait. Mexicans draw maps to the nearest grocery store, and then break into them and steal from them?

yes them does,, the US is one giant grocery store to mexicans who need to steal.. steal in, steal identity, steal you blind.. all cause their governments sucks.. and you suck too

 

[Modbert]

yes them does,, the US is one giant grocery store to mexicans who need to steal.. steal in, steal identity, steal you blind.. all cause their governments sucks.. and you suck too

You just implied all Mexicans steal from the U.S. You know how ignorant that sounds, right?

 

[WillowTree]

yes them does,, the US is one giant grocery store to mexicans who need to steal.. steal in, steal identity, steal you blind.. all cause their governments sucks.. and you suck too

You just implied all Mexicans steal from the U.S. You know how ignorant that sounds, right?

ever ask yerself how much bread the failed mexican gov. could purchase for what it costs them to publish those booklets?? you are the ignorant one.

 

[Modbert]

ever ask yerself how much bread the failed mexican gov. could purchase for what it costs them to publish those booklets?? you are the ignorant one.

You're just dodging my question to your racism.

 

[Yurt]

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

 

[WillowTree]

ever ask yerself how much bread the failed mexican gov. could purchase for what it costs them to publish those booklets?? you are the ignorant one.

You're just dodging my question to your racism.

do you think I give a good goddamn that you call me a racist?? asswipe? why do you think the mexican government publishes pamphlets on how to sneak into the big grocery store called the us of kkka?? huh??

 

[Modbert]

do you think I give a good goddamn that you call me a racist?? asswipe? why do you think the mexican government publishes pamphlets on how to sneak into the big grocery store called the us of kkka?? huh??

Except you just called all mexicans thieves. That would be a textbook definition of racism.

 

[Madeline]

Here is an interesting compromise that I think will make open-borders people and anti-illegal immigration people equally happy. The solution lies in the correct interpretation of the constitution that says the federal government has the power to establlish naturalization rules. Naturalization rules are not the same as immigration because naturalization is the process at which someone becomes a citizen of the United States while immigration is the movement of people across national borders. This is a clear distinction that says that the power to control immigration lies with each state so a state like Arizona can declare no more immigrants while California can allow as many people as they want simply because the power to control immigration belongs to each state and not to the federal government. Each state can then have its own immigration policy (not naturalization policy since that belongs in the federal government). This should make everyone happy.

Every time I see a new Op by you, ihopehefails, I am delighted...you ask The Big Questions.

I dunno WTF Immigration & Naturalizations laws may be apart from this: The US has quotas for petitoning would-be immigrants and they vary between nations. Some French chick may have an easy time entering and making the Citizen Ceremony. Some Saudi guys, a very difficult time. These things are a little outside my perview and I know lawyers in Miami would make a great living doing this and nothing else, but t'aint my cuppa tea.

If the question is would it be feasible/possible to close the Mexican-US border, mebbe yes, mebbe no. What everyone agrees on is we COULD stem the flood of illegal immigration and turn it into a trickle. You dun read about 10,000 Cubans a week arriving in Miami do ya? And that's because we took effective measures to prevent it, especially after the Mariel Boat Life in the 1980's.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/mariel-boatlift.htm

It may more difficult to control illegal immigration with Mexico than, say Cuba, due to geography, and no, we cannot stop there. We (the US and its Corporate Whoremongers) have to stop screwing around and lean on the Mexican government to address the needs of its own citizens and give back what was stolen from them. Mexico has the highest GDP of all Latin American nations and arguably the poorest of the poor. There is no Mexican middle class. There are more billionares in Mexico than any other nation on Earth -- except mebbe the US. They have a corrupt and greedy elite/government and we have to step on them HARD to get a real democracy-building effort underway there.

http://http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=2006_4239457

But the wall between the US and Mexico; the tripling of Border Guards and use of our military, etc...all these things WOULD be effective, ihopehefails. Not 100% effective, but mebbe 85% or so.

Good enough for government work.