Does religion = Morality

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by JBeukema, Jun 23, 2009.

  1. JBeukema
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    Why is it 'good'; to obey the commandments of one's deity, if one believes in a deity that gives commands? How does a commandment from deity make an action 'good;, 'right', or 'moral', as opposed to merely to religious and obedient act?

    For instance, if 'god' commands you to kill a man, how does that make killing him good or moral? Are you not merely obeying out of fear and the desire top be rewarded and not punished by deity? Why is genocide or human sacrifice- normally deemed immoral and 'wrong'- suddenly 'good' the moment a deity demands it?


    It speaks to a very important matter- that is, religion does not inherently teach morality. the Abrahamic faiths, for instance do not teach morality so much as they teach law, regardless of whether it is 'good' and demand obedience for the purely selfish reason that one does not wish to be punished, but rather to enjoy the benefits of obedience. Isn't this the same as the Nuremberg defense, where it was said, 'I merely did what I was told, so that I would be rewarded instead of punished, killed, or tortured'?

    fast-forward
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2009
  2. JBeukema
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    ....


    So my argument goes unchallenged? The theists of USMB concede the point?
     
  3. ZhaoYun
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    If God = Good
    Then
    God's Law = Morality

    Though I'm not a theist, and I appreciate your point.
     
  4. KittenKoder
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    The point is this, without reward then why be good? Honestly, I can't find any other reason to keep myself from mowing down a bunch of dumbass hairless apes if I do not have a reward for living and letting live.
     
  5. ZhaoYun
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    I believe that most of them teach, in varying degrees, that good is it's own reward, and evil it's own punishment. "The Golden Rule" comes to mind.
     
  6. JBeukema
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    1)Why does good=good, if god gives commands that would otherwise be considered immoral?
    2)do not those commandments disprove 'god=good'?

    Good way to paraphrase 1.2 of the OP ;)

    'good' must still be defined, something that humanists, for example, address directly

    If that were true, deity wouldn't punuish 'evil' or need to
    Golden rule= social contract and ethics, not morality
     
  7. ZhaoYun
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    1. No, because we are incapable of understanding God and the nature of the universe. Furthermore, in an ethical system that values obedience to god above all else(it's the very meaning of Islam(submission, actually)) the definition is not necessary.
    2. Saying that the golden rule is a social contract (late 18th c.) and ethics rather than morality is taking it out of context, and quibbling.

    I'm not a "theist" and am not about to spend a lot of time defending their positions. They are clear. Ethically, I value honesty, communication, and earnest good faith, so I am morally charged with the duty to try my damnedest to understand and accept another's explanation of his beliefs, no matter how inconsistent with mine they may be. These questions and their answers are really quite simple. There is nothing more to dig out, or that need be argued, except as an exercise in learning, or to satisfy a persons desire for conflict.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2009
  8. JBeukema
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    Just because we don't understand it, doesn't mean we can't understand it. Nor have you addressed the question: if a given act (for example, genocide) is considered immoral or wrong, why does it suddenly become the 'right' thing to do because that which gives the order appear 'supernatural'?

    Why is submission good? Again, you end up setting forth law and still leaving unaddressed the issue of morality.

    It's not out of context, because morality and ethics are two very different things. My point is that while they might be good at unifying a peoples beneath a common ethical code, attributing law to deity still fails to address the matter or morality.

    you value them morally, society might or might not value them and they might or might not be ethical

    In short, you have failed completely to address the issue.
     
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    Wow Jb, you are here 24/7....
     
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