Do you want the AMNESTY bill for illegal aliens to pass?

[Flopper]

Sorry, but LEGAL immigrants come here by the tens of thousands every year, following the laws of this country.

-next-

See my post a page or two back. My version of a "NEW" law would be to enforce laws already on the books with this proviso:

Any employer found to be employing illegal workers would be fined $50,000 Per Illegal, as a first offense. $75,000 Per Illegal for second offense. $100,000 for a third offense. 4th offense, the Feds seize the business.

Illegal immigration would be over in a matter of a month or two.


All it takes is a Federal government who cares more for the rights of the unemployed Americans in this country than it does for the supposed "rights" of those who come here with the sole intention of raping this country.

The E-Verify system is an improvement which means it's better than nothing. The new law will improve the E-Verify photo system. I'm not sure this level of fines is appropriate. Farmers are having a hard time dealing with the system now. Remember for over 75 years we have encouraged farmers to hire undocumented Mexican labor to pick the crops. Now we want to fine them $100,000 a person for doing so? Unlike most businesses, a shortage of labor is devastating to the farmer. They have a very narrow time frame to pick the crop and very few people are willing to do the work at the price the farmer can pay.

The vast majority of those "farms" are corporate owned and bring in profits of tens of millions per year. They pay slave wages. Yet, every year, the cost of fruits and vegetables rises. Why not employ out of work Americans?

Not to be argumentative here, but you are making excuses for the lax enforcement of immigration laws. If we are EVER to stop the invasion of those who come here illegally, fines are the ONLY way to stop it.

You make it sound as if the only illegals are farm workers. Check the meat packing facilities in Chicago, Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas, Missouri. Check out the employee roles of McDonalds, Hardee's, Carl's Jr, Whataburger, etc. Check out every lawn service in the United States. Check out every home builder in the United States. I could go on for an hour. Good, decent jobs taken, and maintained by companies that hire illegals RATHER than American citizens who are looking for honest work. Their profits rise and their payrolls shrink.

Again, we currently have 100,000 Veterans who are out of work. Why can't the Feds hire a big chunk of these young people to work for ICE as immigration personnel? All I ever hear is that "we simply can't deport 12 million illegals". BS.

American farms are in competition with farms in Mexico and other Latin American countries. The average field worker makes $10 to $15/hr which is above minimum wage and almost twice what is paid in Mexico. In order to attract unemployed Americans, farmers would have to offer higher wages for field hands. If they did many of these farms could not compete with farms south of the boarder. The higher wages would also increase the incentive to cross the boarder illegally.

The answer is allow workers to enter the country legally to do the work that Americans don't want to do. It benefits these workers and it benefits all Americans with lower cost produce.

There are plenty of seasonal jobs available working in the fields for anyone who can get to the fields and wants to do backbreaking work, often in hundred degree heat, for near minimum wage with no benefits and pay based on the amount you pick.

 

[Flopper]

The guy crossing the unguarded and largely unpatrolled border as you read this hasn't been examined? Does he have TB? Smallpox? Components for a dirty bomb? Who knows?

And this is a primary reason why we need to control who enters this country. We need to let people into the country legally who want to work and mean us no harm. We can require they have physical exams, check for felony convictions, and document their entry with photos and fingerprints.

Law enforcement will not have spend their resources chasing down people that are of no real threat and diverting their efforts in keeping drug traffickers, felons, and terrorist out the country.

Again, you don't think an intimidating, substantial, PATROLLED physical barrier would help law enforcement?

Increasing the security at the boarder will definitely help law enforcement. This is one of the most significant parts of the bill, 3500 additional officers, remote (drones) and stationary video monitoring, increased training for boarder officers, completion of physical barriers, grants to border states to provide additional support for federal law enforcement, increasing the judicial staffing to double the number convictions for boarder violations, and changes to make the availability of the Coast Guard and National Guard more readily available to the states.

 

[RandallFlagg]

The E-Verify system is an improvement which means it's better than nothing. The new law will improve the E-Verify photo system. I'm not sure this level of fines is appropriate. Farmers are having a hard time dealing with the system now. Remember for over 75 years we have encouraged farmers to hire undocumented Mexican labor to pick the crops. Now we want to fine them $100,000 a person for doing so? Unlike most businesses, a shortage of labor is devastating to the farmer. They have a very narrow time frame to pick the crop and very few people are willing to do the work at the price the farmer can pay.

The vast majority of those "farms" are corporate owned and bring in profits of tens of millions per year. They pay slave wages. Yet, every year, the cost of fruits and vegetables rises. Why not employ out of work Americans?

Not to be argumentative here, but you are making excuses for the lax enforcement of immigration laws. If we are EVER to stop the invasion of those who come here illegally, fines are the ONLY way to stop it.

You make it sound as if the only illegals are farm workers. Check the meat packing facilities in Chicago, Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas, Missouri. Check out the employee roles of McDonalds, Hardee's, Carl's Jr, Whataburger, etc. Check out every lawn service in the United States. Check out every home builder in the United States. I could go on for an hour. Good, decent jobs taken, and maintained by companies that hire illegals RATHER than American citizens who are looking for honest work. Their profits rise and their payrolls shrink.

Again, we currently have 100,000 Veterans who are out of work. Why can't the Feds hire a big chunk of these young people to work for ICE as immigration personnel? All I ever hear is that "we simply can't deport 12 million illegals". BS.

American farms are in competition with farms in Mexico and other Latin American countries. The average field worker makes $10 to $15/hr which is above minimum wage and almost twice what is paid in Mexico. In order to attract unemployed Americans, farmers would have to offer higher wages for field hands. If they did many of these farms could not compete with farms south of the boarder. The higher wages would also increase the incentive to cross the boarder illegally.

The answer is allow workers to enter the country legally to do the work that Americans don't want to do. It benefits these workers and it benefits all Americans with lower cost produce.

There are plenty of seasonal jobs available working in the fields for anyone who can get to the fields and wants to do backbreaking work, often in hundred degree heat, for near minimum wage with no benefits and pay based on the amount you pick.

Again, I understand your position. You believe that (basically) America NEEDS the illegals in order to survive. I do not. You deflect from the statements that I have made by pointing to the "old stand by" that illegals "do work that Americans won't do" - you would prefer (I assume) that rather than putting OUR unemployed to work do "those" jobs, that we merely let them languish on the government dole. You and I will never see eye-to-eye there.

Barry, when he first took office, was going to "put America back to work" with "shovel ready" projects ala the WPA:


Works Progress Administration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Yet a year or two later he laughed that "shovel ready wasn't as shovel ready as we thought" while Americans watched jobs readily go to illegal immigrants.

Here's the deal: You either believe in "Americans for Americans" or you don't. I personally believe that we owe Illegal Parasites from Mexico nothing more than a quick bus ride back from whence they came and the multinational farming communities, the corporate home builders, the corporate lawn services, et al that employ them willingly, a chance to contribute to the National Treasury to reduce our National Debt in the manner of fines and penalties.

 

[Unkotare]

They are NOT looking for citizenship. Most despise "the gringo". .

You know what "most" of a group comprising millions of people thinks, feels, and wants?

I note that my question went unanswered although the person in question is still actively posting on this thread.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Prinarily because it is a set up. You know it and I know it, you moron. Do YOU still beat YOUR Wife?


Grow up.

 

[bendog]

I want it to die in the House, LOUDLY, so the latinos, blacks and asians here today's gop clearly.

But having a fillibuster in the senate would be icing on the cake.

jmo, but the gop will have to lose another national election before the loons are put back in line.

 

[Sarah G]

The vast majority of those "farms" are corporate owned and bring in profits of tens of millions per year. They pay slave wages. Yet, every year, the cost of fruits and vegetables rises. Why not employ out of work Americans?

Not to be argumentative here, but you are making excuses for the lax enforcement of immigration laws. If we are EVER to stop the invasion of those who come here illegally, fines are the ONLY way to stop it.

You make it sound as if the only illegals are farm workers. Check the meat packing facilities in Chicago, Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas, Missouri. Check out the employee roles of McDonalds, Hardee's, Carl's Jr, Whataburger, etc. Check out every lawn service in the United States. Check out every home builder in the United States. I could go on for an hour. Good, decent jobs taken, and maintained by companies that hire illegals RATHER than American citizens who are looking for honest work. Their profits rise and their payrolls shrink.

Again, we currently have 100,000 Veterans who are out of work. Why can't the Feds hire a big chunk of these young people to work for ICE as immigration personnel? All I ever hear is that "we simply can't deport 12 million illegals". BS.

American farms are in competition with farms in Mexico and other Latin American countries. The average field worker makes $10 to $15/hr which is above minimum wage and almost twice what is paid in Mexico. In order to attract unemployed Americans, farmers would have to offer higher wages for field hands. If they did many of these farms could not compete with farms south of the boarder. The higher wages would also increase the incentive to cross the boarder illegally.

The answer is allow workers to enter the country legally to do the work that Americans don't want to do. It benefits these workers and it benefits all Americans with lower cost produce.

There are plenty of seasonal jobs available working in the fields for anyone who can get to the fields and wants to do backbreaking work, often in hundred degree heat, for near minimum wage with no benefits and pay based on the amount you pick.

Again, I understand your position. You believe that (basically) America NEEDS the illegals in order to survive. I do not. You deflect from the statements that I have made by pointing to the "old stand by" that illegals "do work that Americans won't do" - you would prefer (I assume) that rather than putting OUR unemployed to work do "those" jobs, that we merely let them languish on the government dole. You and I will never see eye-to-eye there.

Barry, when he first took office, was going to "put America back to work" with "shovel ready" projects ala the WPA:


Works Progress Administration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Yet a year or two later he laughed that "shovel ready wasn't as shovel ready as we thought" while Americans watched jobs readily go to illegal immigrants.

Here's the deal: You either believe in "Americans for Americans" or you don't. I personally believe that we owe Illegal Parasites from Mexico nothing more than a quick bus ride back from whence they came and the multinational farming communities, the corporate home builders, the corporate lawn services, et al that employ them willingly, a chance to contribute to the National Treasury to reduce our National Debt in the manner of fines and penalties.

We go through this about every 6 months here. Illegals do work here but they also pay taxes in anticipation of amnesty. They are contributing as well and we need to find the way through this so that these companies will also be required to treat their hard working employees fairly.

 

[Unkotare]

Prinarily because it is a set up. You know it and I know it, you moron. Do YOU still beat YOUR Wife?


Grow up.

How is it a set up? YOU made the statement yourself, remember?

 

[Redfish]

American farms are in competition with farms in Mexico and other Latin American countries. The average field worker makes $10 to $15/hr which is above minimum wage and almost twice what is paid in Mexico. In order to attract unemployed Americans, farmers would have to offer higher wages for field hands. If they did many of these farms could not compete with farms south of the boarder. The higher wages would also increase the incentive to cross the boarder illegally.

The answer is allow workers to enter the country legally to do the work that Americans don't want to do. It benefits these workers and it benefits all Americans with lower cost produce.

There are plenty of seasonal jobs available working in the fields for anyone who can get to the fields and wants to do backbreaking work, often in hundred degree heat, for near minimum wage with no benefits and pay based on the amount you pick.

Again, I understand your position. You believe that (basically) America NEEDS the illegals in order to survive. I do not. You deflect from the statements that I have made by pointing to the "old stand by" that illegals "do work that Americans won't do" - you would prefer (I assume) that rather than putting OUR unemployed to work do "those" jobs, that we merely let them languish on the government dole. You and I will never see eye-to-eye there.

Barry, when he first took office, was going to "put America back to work" with "shovel ready" projects ala the WPA:


Works Progress Administration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Yet a year or two later he laughed that "shovel ready wasn't as shovel ready as we thought" while Americans watched jobs readily go to illegal immigrants.

Here's the deal: You either believe in "Americans for Americans" or you don't. I personally believe that we owe Illegal Parasites from Mexico nothing more than a quick bus ride back from whence they came and the multinational farming communities, the corporate home builders, the corporate lawn services, et al that employ them willingly, a chance to contribute to the National Treasury to reduce our National Debt in the manner of fines and penalties.

We go through this about every 6 months here. Illegals do work here but they also pay taxes in anticipation of amnesty. They are contributing as well and we need to find the way through this so that these companies will also be required to treat their hard working employees fairly.

why not give those jobs to legal americans that are currently drawing unemployment? If they refuse the jobs, then the unemployment payments stop.

why should the country be dealing with illegals while real americans need jobs?

said another way----WTF is wrong with you liberals that you cannot see this?

 

[Unkotare]

Again, I understand your position. You believe that (basically) America NEEDS the illegals in order to survive. I do not. You deflect from the statements that I have made by pointing to the "old stand by" that illegals "do work that Americans won't do" - you would prefer (I assume) that rather than putting OUR unemployed to work do "those" jobs, that we merely let them languish on the government dole. You and I will never see eye-to-eye there.

Barry, when he first took office, was going to "put America back to work" with "shovel ready" projects ala the WPA:


Works Progress Administration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Yet a year or two later he laughed that "shovel ready wasn't as shovel ready as we thought" while Americans watched jobs readily go to illegal immigrants.

Here's the deal: You either believe in "Americans for Americans" or you don't. I personally believe that we owe Illegal Parasites from Mexico nothing more than a quick bus ride back from whence they came and the multinational farming communities, the corporate home builders, the corporate lawn services, et al that employ them willingly, a chance to contribute to the National Treasury to reduce our National Debt in the manner of fines and penalties.

We go through this about every 6 months here. Illegals do work here but they also pay taxes in anticipation of amnesty. They are contributing as well and we need to find the way through this so that these companies will also be required to treat their hard working employees fairly.

why not give those jobs to legal americans that are currently drawing unemployment? If they refuse the jobs, then the unemployment payments stop.

why should the country be dealing with illegals while real americans need jobs??

A reasonable perspective, but what do we do about the fact that many of the jobs in question are not where many of the welfare recipients in question live? Do we ship them around the country? House them? It might all end up costing more. And what do we do if a large number of the former welfare recipients turn out to be horrible workers? Force owners to keep them on? I agree in principle, but there are some devils in the details. If we could just control our damn borders all this would work itself out to a reasonable degree eventually, but as long as it's not all that tough to violate our sovereignty we will always face the same conundrum.

 

[candycorn]

The guy crossing the unguarded and largely unpatrolled border as you read this hasn't been examined? Does he have TB? Smallpox? Components for a dirty bomb? Who knows?

And this is a primary reason why we need to control who enters this country. We need to let people into the country legally who want to work and mean us no harm. We can require they have physical exams, check for felony convictions, and document their entry with photos and fingerprints.

Law enforcement will not have spend their resources chasing down people that are of no real threat and diverting their efforts in keeping drug traffickers, felons, and terrorist out the country.

As I showed on the graph, we've massively added to the border "patrol" forces already with little or no effect.

Our border "patrol" needs help. Currently it's like stationing a guy on the Interstate off ramp and asking him or her to make sure nobody gets into your front yard by controlling the exit.

Again, you don't think an intimidating, substantial, PATROLLED physical barrier would help law enforcement?

Increasing the security at the boarder will definitely help law enforcement.

History shows different. We've barely made a dent as we've beefed up security.

This is one of the most significant parts of the bill, 3500 additional officers, remote (drones) and stationary video monitoring, increased training for boarder officers, completion of physical barriers, grants to border states to provide additional support for federal law enforcement, increasing the judicial staffing to double the number convictions for boarder violations, and changes to make the availability of the Coast Guard and National Guard more readily available to the states.

I wish I were as optimistic as you. I dare say that you're almost being a bit naive. Look, we've jacked up security quite a bit in terms of numbers of agents with little effect. Adding drones is going to help? Maybe if they have hellfire missiles on them (LOL--just kidding). We're still going to have massive enforcement in El Paso and Nogales and San Diego and Brownsville while coyotes are carrying people across unimpeded.

It's really time to stop messing around with this topic and get aggressive. From what you've told me, the bill is a lot like what I recall from my youth; we throw money at a problem and nothing happens. That sounds like what you're describing. There is more good in it than I thought--you've taught me something but it's far too little and far too narrow.

In my opinion, the President should wad up the bill and veto it on the basis of it lacking a punch line.

 

[RandallFlagg]

The guy crossing the unguarded and largely unpatrolled border as you read this hasn't been examined? Does he have TB? Smallpox? Components for a dirty bomb? Who knows?

And this is a primary reason why we need to control who enters this country. We need to let people into the country legally who want to work and mean us no harm. We can require they have physical exams, check for felony convictions, and document their entry with photos and fingerprints.

Law enforcement will not have spend their resources chasing down people that are of no real threat and diverting their efforts in keeping drug traffickers, felons, and terrorist out the country.

As I showed on the graph, we've massively added to the border "patrol" forces already with little or no effect.

Our border "patrol" needs help. Currently it's like stationing a guy on the Interstate off ramp and asking him or her to make sure nobody gets into your front yard by controlling the exit.

Increasing the security at the boarder will definitely help law enforcement.

History shows different. We've barely made a dent as we've beefed up security.

This is one of the most significant parts of the bill, 3500 additional officers, remote (drones) and stationary video monitoring, increased training for boarder officers, completion of physical barriers, grants to border states to provide additional support for federal law enforcement, increasing the judicial staffing to double the number convictions for boarder violations, and changes to make the availability of the Coast Guard and National Guard more readily available to the states.

I wish I were as optimistic as you. I dare say that you're almost being a bit naive. Look, we've jacked up security quite a bit in terms of numbers of agents with little effect. Adding drones is going to help? Maybe if they have hellfire missiles on them (LOL--just kidding). We're still going to have massive enforcement in El Paso and Nogales and San Diego and Brownsville while coyotes are carrying people across unimpeded.

It's really time to stop messing around with this topic and get aggressive. From what you've told me, the bill is a lot like what I recall from my youth; we throw money at a problem and nothing happens. That sounds like what you're describing. There is more good in it than I thought--you've taught me something but it's far too little and far too narrow.

In my opinion, the President should wad up the bill and veto it on the basis of it lacking a punch line.

My Wife and I were in San Diego a few years back to visit our Son. We went to San Ysidro (which is the border) to a huge outlet mall. The border fence LITERALLY is 10 feet from most of the mall. You can look at the back of the stores and see the fence.

About a week into our stay, the Border Patrol found one of a series of tunnels that were built under the fence and came out in closed stores. The Border Patrol "estimated" that during its time in operation some 14,000 people may have been transported through that one tunnel alone; not to mention countless tons of illegal drugs.

Bottom line? Until the border is secure (which it will never be) we should not even be TALKING about a bill. Shut the damned border down and we can talk.

 

[Socio]

The E-Verify system is an improvement which means it's better than nothing. The new law will improve the E-Verify photo system. I'm not sure this level of fines is appropriate. Farmers are having a hard time dealing with the system now. Remember for over 75 years we have encouraged farmers to hire undocumented Mexican labor to pick the crops. Now we want to fine them $100,000 a person for doing so? Unlike most businesses, a shortage of labor is devastating to the farmer. They have a very narrow time frame to pick the crop and very few people are willing to do the work at the price the farmer can pay.

The vast majority of those "farms" are corporate owned and bring in profits of tens of millions per year. They pay slave wages. Yet, every year, the cost of fruits and vegetables rises. Why not employ out of work Americans?

Not to be argumentative here, but you are making excuses for the lax enforcement of immigration laws. If we are EVER to stop the invasion of those who come here illegally, fines are the ONLY way to stop it.

You make it sound as if the only illegals are farm workers. Check the meat packing facilities in Chicago, Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas, Missouri. Check out the employee roles of McDonalds, Hardee's, Carl's Jr, Whataburger, etc. Check out every lawn service in the United States. Check out every home builder in the United States. I could go on for an hour. Good, decent jobs taken, and maintained by companies that hire illegals RATHER than American citizens who are looking for honest work. Their profits rise and their payrolls shrink.

Again, we currently have 100,000 Veterans who are out of work. Why can't the Feds hire a big chunk of these young people to work for ICE as immigration personnel? All I ever hear is that "we simply can't deport 12 million illegals". BS.

American farms are in competition with farms in Mexico and other Latin American countries. The average field worker makes $10 to $15/hr which is above minimum wage and almost twice what is paid in Mexico. In order to attract unemployed Americans, farmers would have to offer higher wages for field hands. If they did many of these farms could not compete with farms south of the boarder. The higher wages would also increase the incentive to cross the boarder illegally.

The answer is allow workers to enter the country legally to do the work that Americans don't want to do. It benefits these workers and it benefits all Americans with lower cost produce.

There are plenty of seasonal jobs available working in the fields for anyone who can get to the fields and wants to do backbreaking work, often in hundred degree heat, for near minimum wage with no benefits and pay based on the amount you pick.

Yes they can get a H-2A: Temporary Agricultural Worker where they are sponsored by an employer, do that work and go back home. The problem is they don't go home they go seek higher paying jobs they are not supposed to be doing and we do little to nothing to stop it.

A large portion of illegal immigrants in the US are those that overstayed their visas and most of these are temporary work visas.

 

[Socio]

The guy crossing the unguarded and largely unpatrolled border as you read this hasn't been examined? Does he have TB? Smallpox? Components for a dirty bomb? Who knows?

And this is a primary reason why we need to control who enters this country. We need to let people into the country legally who want to work and mean us no harm. We can require they have physical exams, check for felony convictions, and document their entry with photos and fingerprints.

Law enforcement will not have spend their resources chasing down people that are of no real threat and diverting their efforts in keeping drug traffickers, felons, and terrorist out the country.

Again, you don't think an intimidating, substantial, PATROLLED physical barrier would help law enforcement?

Increasing the security at the boarder will definitely help law enforcement. This is one of the most significant parts of the bill, 3500 additional officers, remote (drones) and stationary video monitoring, increased training for boarder officers, completion of physical barriers, grants to border states to provide additional support for federal law enforcement, increasing the judicial staffing to double the number convictions for boarder violations, and changes to make the availability of the Coast Guard and National Guard more readily available to the states.

The whole border security thing is probably the biggest con to ever be played on the American people, no matter how much they spend or how much they beef it up it is not going to stop people from coming here illegally and certainly not stop anyone from overstaying their visa's yet we are lead to believe it is the end all to illegal immigration.

Border security is only an obstacle, the only thing that is going to stop illegal immigration is a deterrent, and that is something the US government refuses to do in any form.

 

[Socio]

Quote: Originally Posted by Flopper View Post
The E-Verify system is an improvement which means it's better than nothing. The new law will improve the E-Verify photo system. I'm not sure this level of fines is appropriate. Farmers are having a hard time dealing with the system now. Remember for over 75 years we have encouraged farmers to hire undocumented Mexican labor to pick the crops. Now we want to fine them $100,000 a person for doing so? Unlike most businesses, a shortage of labor is devastating to the farmer. They have a very narrow time frame to pick the crop and very few people are willing to do the work at the price the farmer can pay.

FYI:

Immigration bill guts E-Verify for years

This means employers can still hire illegals ( likely to replace the more expensive newly legalized immigrants).

 

[Flopper]

The vast majority of those "farms" are corporate owned and bring in profits of tens of millions per year. They pay slave wages. Yet, every year, the cost of fruits and vegetables rises. Why not employ out of work Americans?

Not to be argumentative here, but you are making excuses for the lax enforcement of immigration laws. If we are EVER to stop the invasion of those who come here illegally, fines are the ONLY way to stop it.

You make it sound as if the only illegals are farm workers. Check the meat packing facilities in Chicago, Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas, Missouri. Check out the employee roles of McDonalds, Hardee's, Carl's Jr, Whataburger, etc. Check out every lawn service in the United States. Check out every home builder in the United States. I could go on for an hour. Good, decent jobs taken, and maintained by companies that hire illegals RATHER than American citizens who are looking for honest work. Their profits rise and their payrolls shrink.

Again, we currently have 100,000 Veterans who are out of work. Why can't the Feds hire a big chunk of these young people to work for ICE as immigration personnel? All I ever hear is that "we simply can't deport 12 million illegals". BS.

American farms are in competition with farms in Mexico and other Latin American countries. The average field worker makes $10 to $15/hr which is above minimum wage and almost twice what is paid in Mexico. In order to attract unemployed Americans, farmers would have to offer higher wages for field hands. If they did many of these farms could not compete with farms south of the boarder. The higher wages would also increase the incentive to cross the boarder illegally.

The answer is allow workers to enter the country legally to do the work that Americans don't want to do. It benefits these workers and it benefits all Americans with lower cost produce.

There are plenty of seasonal jobs available working in the fields for anyone who can get to the fields and wants to do backbreaking work, often in hundred degree heat, for near minimum wage with no benefits and pay based on the amount you pick.

Again, I understand your position. You believe that (basically) America NEEDS the illegals in order to survive. I do not. You deflect from the statements that I have made by pointing to the "old stand by" that illegals "do work that Americans won't do" - you would prefer (I assume) that rather than putting OUR unemployed to work do "those" jobs, that we merely let them languish on the government dole. You and I will never see eye-to-eye there.

Barry, when he first took office, was going to "put America back to work" with "shovel ready" projects ala the WPA:


Works Progress Administration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Yet a year or two later he laughed that "shovel ready wasn't as shovel ready as we thought" while Americans watched jobs readily go to illegal immigrants.

Here's the deal: You either believe in "Americans for Americans" or you don't. I personally believe that we owe Illegal Parasites from Mexico nothing more than a quick bus ride back from whence they came and the multinational farming communities, the corporate home builders, the corporate lawn services, et al that employ them willingly, a chance to contribute to the National Treasury to reduce our National Debt in the manner of fines and penalties.

Sure if we discontinue public assistance such as food stamps, TANF, and worker's disability we will fill the field with hunger people willing to do backbreaking work for low wages. However, that's not going to happen because we aren't a third world country with a policy of work or starve.

 

[Flopper]

The guy crossing the unguarded and largely unpatrolled border as you read this hasn't been examined? Does he have TB? Smallpox? Components for a dirty bomb? Who knows?

And this is a primary reason why we need to control who enters this country. We need to let people into the country legally who want to work and mean us no harm. We can require they have physical exams, check for felony convictions, and document their entry with photos and fingerprints.

Law enforcement will not have spend their resources chasing down people that are of no real threat and diverting their efforts in keeping drug traffickers, felons, and terrorist out the country.

As I showed on the graph, we've massively added to the border "patrol" forces already with little or no effect.

Our border "patrol" needs help. Currently it's like stationing a guy on the Interstate off ramp and asking him or her to make sure nobody gets into your front yard by controlling the exit.

Increasing the security at the boarder will definitely help law enforcement.

History shows different. We've barely made a dent as we've beefed up security.

This is one of the most significant parts of the bill, 3500 additional officers, remote (drones) and stationary video monitoring, increased training for boarder officers, completion of physical barriers, grants to border states to provide additional support for federal law enforcement, increasing the judicial staffing to double the number convictions for boarder violations, and changes to make the availability of the Coast Guard and National Guard more readily available to the states.

I wish I were as optimistic as you. I dare say that you're almost being a bit naive. Look, we've jacked up security quite a bit in terms of numbers of agents with little effect. Adding drones is going to help? Maybe if they have hellfire missiles on them (LOL--just kidding). We're still going to have massive enforcement in El Paso and Nogales and San Diego and Brownsville while coyotes are carrying people across unimpeded.

It's really time to stop messing around with this topic and get aggressive. From what you've told me, the bill is a lot like what I recall from my youth; we throw money at a problem and nothing happens. That sounds like what you're describing. There is more good in it than I thought--you've taught me something but it's far too little and far too narrow.

In my opinion, the President should wad up the bill and veto it on the basis of it lacking a punch line.

If the bill passes we will be able to increase the number of workers coming into the country legally by as much as 180,000 if needed. This should definitely reduce the workload on the Boarder Patrol and other agencies so they can concentrate on securing our boarders from felons, terrorist and drug traffickers.

 

[candycorn]

And this is a primary reason why we need to control who enters this country. We need to let people into the country legally who want to work and mean us no harm. We can require they have physical exams, check for felony convictions, and document their entry with photos and fingerprints.

Law enforcement will not have spend their resources chasing down people that are of no real threat and diverting their efforts in keeping drug traffickers, felons, and terrorist out the country.

As I showed on the graph, we've massively added to the border "patrol" forces already with little or no effect.

Our border "patrol" needs help. Currently it's like stationing a guy on the Interstate off ramp and asking him or her to make sure nobody gets into your front yard by controlling the exit.


History shows different. We've barely made a dent as we've beefed up security.

This is one of the most significant parts of the bill, 3500 additional officers, remote (drones) and stationary video monitoring, increased training for boarder officers, completion of physical barriers, grants to border states to provide additional support for federal law enforcement, increasing the judicial staffing to double the number convictions for boarder violations, and changes to make the availability of the Coast Guard and National Guard more readily available to the states.

I wish I were as optimistic as you. I dare say that you're almost being a bit naive. Look, we've jacked up security quite a bit in terms of numbers of agents with little effect. Adding drones is going to help? Maybe if they have hellfire missiles on them (LOL--just kidding). We're still going to have massive enforcement in El Paso and Nogales and San Diego and Brownsville while coyotes are carrying people across unimpeded.

It's really time to stop messing around with this topic and get aggressive. From what you've told me, the bill is a lot like what I recall from my youth; we throw money at a problem and nothing happens. That sounds like what you're describing. There is more good in it than I thought--you've taught me something but it's far too little and far too narrow.

In my opinion, the President should wad up the bill and veto it on the basis of it lacking a punch line.

If the bill passes we will be able to increase the number of workers coming into the country legally by as much as 180,000 if needed. This should definitely reduce the workload on the Boarder Patrol and other agencies so they can concentrate on securing our boarders from felons, terrorist and drug traffickers.

I'll make a bet with you...

In 2016, the immigration picture will not be discernibly different than it is today whether or not the bill passes or not.

Or I'll buy you a sno-cone.